August 14th, 2014, 12:54 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Alan
Location: Gwinnett County, GA
Join Date: Jul 2014 Motorcycle(s): 04 Ninja 250 Posts: 42
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Carb Disassembly Q
Our carb assembly is actually two single barrel carbs stuck together.
I wanted to break them down to singles, but the screws holding the assemblies started to strip on me. Any tricks on completely breaking down this assembly? |
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August 14th, 2014, 01:55 PM | #2 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
The screws look like Phillips, but aren't. If you have chewed them up, just grab them with a visegrips and get them out, then replace with Socket-head cap screws - stainless steel if you can find them. If you plan to do any amount of work on Japanese cycles or cars you want a good set of JIS screwdrivers. I got mine at McMaster-Carr for about $30 for a 3-piece set. Never regretted it. |
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August 14th, 2014, 08:01 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
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Everyone who works on motorcycles needs a hand impact driver to loosen stubborn fasteners. They are inexpensive and worth their weight in gold! I've used standard Phillips screwdriver bits and an impact driver and never buggered the head of a screw. Use them to loosen things, never to tighten! http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-...ase-37530.html
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August 15th, 2014, 04:39 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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Just use the screwdrivers that came with your bike kit they are JIS. Switch to the hex bolts afterwards and you won't have anymore issues.
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August 16th, 2014, 04:37 AM | #5 |
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Just curious why you want to separate them into singles, Is this to make removal/ cleaning easier?
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August 22nd, 2014, 04:57 PM | #6 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
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Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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No they aren't. The included tools are Phillips. Look at the parts diagram if you don't believe me. Also, good luck opening your side panels or brake fluid reservoir with those!
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August 24th, 2014, 04:38 PM | #7 |
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Name: Gordon
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if the linkage screws are already buggered, cut a slot using a dremel with cut-off wheel, use a flat blade driver.
In addition...the suggestion to get an impact driver is a valid one, a must have for carb separation, not only on EX250/500 but other applications as well. The tight phillips screws routinely strip without using the impact driver. Why split them? Automatic for refurb, ultrasonic cleaning and to replace the fuel rail (connector link) o-rings. Orings are considered consumables, a true refurb is not accomplished without replacing these. I routinely do EX500 carbs, the fleet is aging out there. |
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August 24th, 2014, 05:46 PM | #8 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
You are right - they are listed as "Phillips" in the parts fiche. I would say that's just a simplification for the U.S. market. I recently worked on a Chinese engine that had "Phillips" screws on it. I tested a Snap-On #1 and a JIS #1 in the same screw, and the JIS was a significantly better fit. I also tried a #3 screw from the headlight of my Suzuki SV. The Snap-On #3 fit, but the JIS #3 fit better. For anyone that works on Japanese vehicles, chances are the JIS screwdrivers will fit better that a regular Phillips. You can try other bits if you are using an impact driver, but for removing screws by hand the JIS screwdrivers hold a lot better from my experience. EDIT: I'm still not convinced that any of the screws on the Ninja, or any Japanese vehicle, are Phillips and not JIS. The issue is that the manuals were originally written in Japanese and translated to English. Changes get made, and it's possible a familiar description gets used. I couldn't see Japanese manufactures choosing to use some standard Phillips screws and some JIS screws on the same cycle. Because they are in Japan, I'm sure they insist on Japanese Industry Standard (JIS) fasteners - but I can't prove it... Last futzed with by jkv45; August 25th, 2014 at 08:19 AM. |
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August 24th, 2014, 09:59 PM | #9 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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The bolts that hold the side panels, bar ends, and battery box are definitely PH03, but most every other cross-head is a JIS (front brake reservoir, carbs, undertail screw, etc, IIRC). The strange thing is, the tool kit Kawi gives you is so crappy that it can't even undo the confirmed Philips screws! It truly is a clusterf**k that can't be solved with one set of tools or the other, which is why replacing with Allen/hex head where possible is such a good suggestion.
I suggest using the drywall bits for the JIS screws/bolts and standard Phillips #03 for most of the rest (PH02 on the reservoir). Replace the JIS screws as you get then out (usually marked with a dot). If you bugger your bar ends with a PH#03, it's because it is soft metal with permanent thread locker that requires heat AND leverage/impact and NOT because it's JIS (it isn't). All the leverage in the world will just tear it up like butter without heat. With heat you may even be able to get it off with a normal screwdriver. Last futzed with by CZroe; August 26th, 2014 at 07:17 AM. |
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August 25th, 2014, 05:21 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
An idea that is growing on me. |
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August 25th, 2014, 07:08 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
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understood but not adviseable to disable linkages here 's why:
fuel enters the LH carb, which fills, then enters the RH carb via the oringed fuel rail. Removing linkages would allow vibration and motion to destroy the seal between the carbs....IMHO blatantly dangerous. You need a rigid mount due to this design....to clamp the bodies together...thus assuring a leak free fuel passage. |
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August 25th, 2014, 10:23 AM | #12 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
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August 25th, 2014, 11:42 AM | #13 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Alan
Location: Gwinnett County, GA
Join Date: Jul 2014 Motorcycle(s): 04 Ninja 250 Posts: 42
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Quote:
You do raise an interesting mod, though. Seems complex for a gain I don't see, other than to prove it could be done. |
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August 25th, 2014, 11:59 AM | #14 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Gordon
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Quote:
of course anything is possible with time, expense and effort...have fun. |
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August 25th, 2014, 02:19 PM | #15 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
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I will, just for elimination, buy an ultrasonic cleaner and do the spare set to swap next time ( I have two pairs that I alternate). But as I said elsewhere in 45 years of riding and a dozen bikes I have never had Idle problems until the ninjette. |
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August 25th, 2014, 03:53 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Gordon
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15? thats EXtreme.
This happens with both your carbsets? |
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August 25th, 2014, 04:09 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
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Yes
(Not wanting to hijack this thread) I posted on the phenomenon in detail a couple of weeks ago, when the forum was awash with ninja idle problems. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192176 |
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August 25th, 2014, 09:34 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bob
Location: Earf
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Ninja 250, 2006 SV650N Posts: 642
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I've used the included JIS screwdriver on just about everything now and never had an issue that includes the carbs. If I use a regular phillips it usually slips. I really only use it for the brake reservoir, carbs, and boots.
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August 26th, 2014, 03:01 AM | #19 | |
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http://www.hafele.com/us/services/ha...brary/4300.htm |
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August 26th, 2014, 06:48 AM | #20 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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August 26th, 2014, 07:06 AM | #21 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Some reading on the subject from webBikeWorld - http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...-screwdrivers/
I have a 3pc set from McMaster-Carr that is $35 and use them all the time. |
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August 26th, 2014, 07:20 AM | #22 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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http://www.agcoauto.com/content/imag...comparison.jpg Drywall bits are a good idea, I'll take a look. |
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August 26th, 2014, 08:22 AM | #23 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Looks like they may work well for JIS screws that have already been rounded/buggered up. |
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