September 7th, 2014, 11:22 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '92 GPX 250 (Gone and replaced with '08 V-Strom), 2005 Suzuki C50. Posts: 186
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New-gen shock on pre-gen
G'day all, I have just put a 2012 shock on my '92, this has raised the rear a little. Can this be brought back to spec by using the uni-track system from a 2012 model?
All help appreciated.
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October 28th, 2014, 07:17 AM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Why not just leave it raised a little? This is a common mod that is done to these bikes and considered a handling improvement.
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October 28th, 2014, 07:39 AM | #3 |
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I put on the new-gen shock without any changes, it's a hair's breadth higher and a little firmer out back but not to the point of bothering me, and it leaves a lot more wiggle room for carrying a passenger if need be.
If you want the stock ride height why not just put an EO shock back on?
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October 28th, 2014, 07:52 AM | #4 |
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Leave it alone, no worries about it being a little bit taller.
It's a proven fact that raising the rear up helps the bike handle better, I could bore you with technical, and physics on why, but I won't, it just doesn't what it does.
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October 28th, 2014, 08:17 AM | #5 |
pregens for the win!
Name: Andrew
Location: Los Angeles
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As a seeker of information, i am interested in the handling aspects of why the higher rear makes it handle better. Could you bore me with some of that great knowledge? or a link so i can investigate? I just upgraded my front suspension, and now the bike is unbalanced with the stock rear shock, so it's time to upgrade the rear, just more excuses to buy parts for the bike i guess
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October 28th, 2014, 09:15 AM | #6 |
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leave it, the shock is the same length it's just stiffer. Your 92 shock was probably worn out to the point where it was being compressed by the bike's weight itself. When I switched out my '99 shock to a 2010 shock I could compress the '99 by hand, which isn't good. The stiffer springs in the shock are making it seem like the bike is sitting higher, which is a good thing regardless if more predictable and sharper handling was the gain you were looking for with the shock.
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October 28th, 2014, 09:23 AM | #7 | |
Private Joker
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Quote:
In summary, raising the tail and lowering the front causes the bike to react more to minor inputs allowing you to toss the bike around significantly moreso than you were able to before. This combined with lowered clip on handlebars to provide better leverage for at speed cornering turns the bike into a completely different machine. *this is taken from personal experience and some twist of the wrist II reading
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October 28th, 2014, 09:23 AM | #8 | |
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Name: Jesse
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Quote:
Ginga, based on a quick scan of your other thread, I think you've got the opposite happening, your stiff front end and soft rear is pushing your rake away from vertical under load, causing your problems.
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October 28th, 2014, 10:55 AM | #9 |
in your machine
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And I shall, ok boring technical stuff time,
Raising the rear changes the angle of the Swing Arm to put it more in line with the torque reaction of the chain, this reduces lift under hard drives,also they reduce the fork rake Angle and shorten the trail. these two changes quicken the steering and cause the bike to turn with less counter steering input. Finally braking is much improved by the greater weight shift to the front wheel (which does 90% of the braking). Ground clearance is improved as well allowing increased lean angle. One must also keep in mind that suspension is a balancing act between front and rear, and matching up, spring rate, sag, height, oil viscosity, riders weight, tire pressure, and most importantly the realistic use of the bike. Sure everyone wants that cool track set-up, but if your not going to the track, then don't waste your time and money, the real world streets are so far removed from any tracks. I hope this helps clear up some things.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 28th, 2014, 10:57 AM | #10 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Scott and Jesse, I like your real world approach to the issue at hand. Not getting lost in the detail is a good communication skill.
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October 28th, 2014, 11:15 AM | #11 | |
in your machine
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They see something or read something, and go that's what I WANT, not fully understanding the original propose.
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October 28th, 2014, 11:34 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
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The reason for the replacement was that the original shock was 22 years old and I am possibly a little heavier than the ideal pre gen rider. So looking for preload adjustment, the '12 shock was the obvious choice. No problem with the angle of the bike other than the oil level indication.
No track riding (no track here to ride), the extra stiffness in the spring is exactly what I was after, no more bottoming out on the rougher streets. I am now used to it as it is, so will just leave it, no dramas. Will just have to work out the oil level and will be golden. Thank you all for your replies, is much appreciated.
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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October 28th, 2014, 11:50 PM | #13 | |
in your machine
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Quote:
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October 29th, 2014, 01:22 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
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After fitting the shock (and '07 swingarm, another story there) the oil legel did not show on the sight glass. I did not check the level before doing the job, so I don't know how much the difference was. I drained out the oil, leaving the filter in and got 1 litre out.I put 1.4 litres in and it was a touch over full.
I realise the filter chamber will hold some oil, though I have not measured it to find out (had no cause to until now).
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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October 29th, 2014, 07:03 AM | #15 | |
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Name: Jesse
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Quote:
Not knowing any better I'd guess either the bike wasn't level side-to-side or you have something unrelated to the suspension going on.
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October 29th, 2014, 07:22 AM | #16 | |
in your machine
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Quote:
Thank you
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October 29th, 2014, 01:04 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
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Tyres are 90 profile, so when on the main stand both tyres were touching the ground on the stock shock, now with the slightly longer shock the main stand is pretty much a support on either side as she stands on the wheels (4 points of contact ).
the altered ride height at rear only has changed the angle of the engine, now tilted forward slightly more than previously.
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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October 29th, 2014, 01:29 PM | #18 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jesse
Location: Maryville, TN
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ugly 89 frankenstien special ex250, and the "Zooks" : 1982 GS450 and 1979 GS1000 Posts: 327
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Quote:
The only other piece of the puzzle that could cause a difference in this angle is the front suspension, ei if the rear was so high it shifted enough weight to the front to compress the fork springs shorter than their normal sag height. So say for the sake of brainstorming that the forks were compressed an extra half inch (I think that's a very liberal estimate btw). What's the bike's wheelbase, 5 feet? So the difference in angle is half an inch in 5 feet. From the front of the crankcase to the oil sight glass is, let's just say, a foot. That difference in angle should be one 10th of an inch in the sight glass. The sight glass is about 11/16" in diameter isn't it? That's about 0.7 inches. So the oil shouldn't go down more than a 7th of the diameter of the sight glass. So if it were in the middle of the sight glass on stock suspension, it would be something like 1/3 of the way up the sight glass with our super-high/stiff rear end. Where I'm going with all this stuff is that it's going to take a huge difference in suspension height to make the difference in the oil level you're describing.
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October 29th, 2014, 01:34 PM | #19 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Well put, and explained, I think the OP. Is just being a little OCD about the whole thing, that's why I asked for pictures.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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October 29th, 2014, 01:36 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jesse
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It's totally triggering my OCD!!
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October 29th, 2014, 01:39 PM | #21 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Try tilting your head when you look at it
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October 29th, 2014, 01:44 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
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Ocd, that's a laugh.
Just curious about how much change in oil level due to the angle change. Oil running to the front of the crankcase, so not showing at sight glass. As I stated, it was low before hand and out of sight after.
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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October 29th, 2014, 01:46 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jesse
Location: Maryville, TN
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ugly 89 frankenstien special ex250, and the "Zooks" : 1982 GS450 and 1979 GS1000 Posts: 327
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It's got nothing to do with the shock dude. As I stated.
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Oh god the bikes are multiplying!!! |
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October 29th, 2014, 01:55 PM | #24 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Baxtc, don't worry about it, if you want to check the oil off the center stand while you sit on it, either look at then(btw I check mine like that) or have a mate, or a bird check it for you.
Problem solved.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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October 29th, 2014, 02:37 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
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Not solved, ignored.
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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October 29th, 2014, 02:49 PM | #26 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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With the bike off the center stand, and you sitting on it, it should lessen the rack forward. On the EX-500.com forum a long time member and retired motorcycle racer, "FOG" he makes a set of links that raise the bike about 1.5" at the grab handle.
With no issues being raised about the rack/increase of the bike in relation to any oil or lubrication problems. Hope this helps you out.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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October 29th, 2014, 03:12 PM | #27 |
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Name: Ryan
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I raised the forks in the triples about 1/4 inch, which is about all that they can be raised, but it worked perfectly for me.
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October 29th, 2014, 10:34 PM | #28 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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I aint trying to be a bonehead about things, but I am not understanding what your issue is exactly with the oil level? You raised the rear a bit, the oil level isn't gunna be that far off. It can still be filled and checked via the sight glass, on the center stand or on both wheels. Confused where the problem is?!?!?!?!?
If it was a problem, then the 50 or so active ninjette track/racers that have raised the rear would have already been posting about possible problems years ago. 3 ninjette members have now NOT ignored this question. Can you get us a pic? If what you are saying about the sight glass and angle is not what we are thinking, you have a HUGE problem.
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October 30th, 2014, 05:10 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '92 GPX 250 (Gone and replaced with '08 V-Strom), 2005 Suzuki C50. Posts: 186
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No problem, I wasn't expecting any change in oil level indcation, when I saw the change I was curious if it had been noted before, obviously not.
I will wait until I do the next oil and filter change, put in 1.9 litres and see where the level is.
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Originally Posted by jgcable; I ride a 2006 Custom HD Wideglide..... and I almost have to sign autographs when I park it. |
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