Fantasy vs. reality (upgrade thoughts)

[headshrink]

It's looking like the wife's car (only car) is limping.... may have to be worrying about this before a new bike

[TrueFaith]

I don't know how anyone who's ridden an '08 or '09 Ninja 250r could think that a CBR600RR (or any 600 RR offered these days) was more comfortable. The Ninja may be small, but it's still not as cramped as some of the 600s out there. The only exceptions I know of are the ZZR600, which has room in the cockpit to spare and the Yamaha FZ6, which has a much taller seat height than most 600s. If I were going to upgrade I certainly wouldn't go for a more cramped, more agressive riding position unless I planned on doing most of my miles at track day. They may look sweet, but if your body doesn't like the new bike it ain't gonna change its' mind just because you look good while you're suffering.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

I don't know how anyone who's ridden an '08 or '09 Ninja 250r could think that a CBR600RR (or any 600 RR offered these days) was more comfortable. The Ninja may be small, but it's still not as cramped as some of the 600s out there. The only exceptions I know of are the ZZR600, which has room in the cockpit to spare and the Yamaha FZ6, which has a much taller seat height than most 600s. If I were going to upgrade I certainly wouldn't go for a more cramped, more agressive riding position unless I planned on doing most of my miles at track day. They may look sweet, but if your body doesn't like the new bike it ain't gonna change its' mind just because you look good while you're suffering.

You are right. Anybody here noticed too the 600/1000 riders usually drive in town with one hand on the clipon and the other hand to their waist? Must be painful on the arm :P

[sharky nrk]

I routinely prop myself on the tank with my elbow when riding down the road

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I routinely prop myself on the tank with my elbow when riding down the road

ditto

[Nickds7]

I'd rather have an Aprilia Shiver. http://www.apriliashiver.com/index.html?lang=eng

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

I don't know how anyone who's ridden an '08 or '09 Ninja 250r could think that a CBR600RR (or any 600 RR offered these days) was more comfortable. The Ninja may be small, but it's still not as cramped as some of the 600s out there. The only exceptions I know of are the ZZR600, which has room in the cockpit to spare and the Yamaha FZ6, which has a much taller seat height than most 600s. If I were going to upgrade I certainly wouldn't go for a more cramped, more agressive riding position unless I planned on doing most of my miles at track day. They may look sweet, but if your body doesn't like the new bike it ain't gonna change its' mind just because you look good while you're suffering.

I moved from the ninjette to a Yamaha FZ6 and it feels MUCH better. The 250's position really hurt my lower back and often my knees. I am 6'1" and felt too cramped. I sat on the 650R, Versys, Gladius and others but most did not feel much better than the 250, at least sitting still.

The FZ6 has more power, far more comfortable position for me, better brakes, suspension and build quality. Plus, the mirrors actually show what is directly behind you. Imagine that! The only downside is a narrow friction zone and slightly snatchy FI. Also, a bit more wind buffetting on the FZ6 for some reason.

Tim

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by mcteague

I moved from the ninjette to a Yamaha FZ6 and it feels MUCH better. The 250's position really hurt my lower back and often my knees. I am 6'1" and felt too cramped. I sat on the 650R, Versys, Gladius and others but most did not feel much better than the 250, at least sitting still.

The FZ6 has more power, far more comfortable position for me, better brakes, suspension and build quality. Plus, the mirrors actually show what is directly behind you. Imagine that! The only downside is a narrow friction zone and slightly snatchy FI. Also, a bit more wind buffetting on the FZ6 for some reason.

Tim

Hey how is that thing in the twisties? I really like that bike, and the comfort it offers on highway rides when compared to my tiny 250, but I've heard bad things about the suspension and engine.

[Cedilla]

How is the seating position on the FZ6? Is it more upright than the 250r? Im about 5'10 and my upper body is kinda cramped with the short reach to the bars on the 250, For my next ride I want something that is little more upright than a SS but I like an aggressive position for attacking the twistys. Is the FZ6 comfortable for at least 4 or 5 hours in the saddle?

I guess what im trying to say is I would like the performance of a sport bike on the twisty roads, but I need some touring comfort for the hours of highway riding to get to said road. I think the ninjette does those things pretty well, but I feel really big riding on it.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Hey how is that thing in the twisties? I really like that bike, and the comfort it offers on highway rides when compared to my tiny 250, but I've heard bad things about the suspension and engine.

You can't throw it from side to side as easily as the 250 but it feels much more planted. It still goes where I want and, due to the wider bars, is still no problem to flick. The highway comfort is better as the position fits me much better. It also feels more stable due to more weight and fatter tires. The suspension is MUCH better than the 250. The rear on the 250 kicked back hard on every bump.

Tim

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by Cedilla

How is the seating position on the FZ6? Is it more upright than the 250r? Im about 5'10 and my upper body is kinda cramped with the short reach to the bars on the 250, For my next ride I want something that is little more upright than a SS but I like an aggressive position for attacking the twistys. Is the FZ6 comfortable for at least 4 or 5 hours in the saddle?

I guess what im trying to say is I would like the performance of a sport bike on the twisty roads, but I need some touring comfort for the hours of highway riding to get to said road. I think the ninjette does those things pretty well, but I feel really big riding on it.

Comfort is relative but the FZ6 is far better in that area IMO. The seat feels better than the Corbin on my 250 and I have more room as well. I still sit leaned forward a bit but have no arch in my lower back. To me, it's a real world sport bike, not a race replica. It has power, handling and comfort. The windscreen tends to cause too much buffeting in my opinion so I may change screens. I like having some air in Summer but there is more noise around my helmet than with the Ninja. With that bike the air hit about mid-chest. The FZ6 puts it right at my neck.

Tim

[TrueFaith]

One thing I've always loved about Yamahas is how much thought they put into ergonomics. If you sit on one at a dealers it will sometimes seem like the riding position is slightly aggressive, but when you ride it and get up to speed the wind resistance places your body exactly where it needs to be for a really comfortable ride. Now they have that new FZ-based 600 with adjustable seat height and bar reach. I don't see how anyone could fail to dial in the perfect position on that one.
I don't understand why someone mentioned the engine of the FZ6 as a liability. It's the same 600 engine as on their top of the line 600RR that's been de-tuned a bit for better lower end torque on the street. The newest FZ has even more usable low and mid-range power. It's about as perfect a real-world street bike as you're likely to find.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by mcteague

With that bike the air hit about mid-chest. The FZ6 puts it right at my neck.

Tim

LOL yea I've heard that about the windscreen as well. The comments that I"ve read about regarding the engine have mostly come from the magazines (go figure ), but its more about it being a strange combination with that style of bike....and apparently the FI is kinda punchy, as Tim alluded to earlier.

I'm definitely gonna take a long, hard look at the fizzer when I have the funds to upgrade.....that and the Kawi Z750.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

LOL yea I've heard that about the windscreen as well. The comments that I"ve read about regarding the engine have mostly come from the magazines (go figure ), but its more about it being a strange combination with that style of bike....and apparently the FI is kinda punchy, as Tim alluded to earlier.

I'm definitely gonna take a long, hard look at the fizzer when I have the funds to upgrade.....that and the Kawi Z750.

Rumor has it that 2009 will be the last year, in the US anyway (don't know about CA), for the FZ6. Yamaha figures the FZ6R is what Americans want. It has a look that more appeals to new riders and youngsters. However, more serious riders will note the loss of 20HP, aluminum frame, 4 pot monoblock front brakes, hugger and 190 rear tire.

The additions are adjustable seat and bars which sound like a really good idea.

Tim

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Rumor has it that 2009 will be the last year, in the US anyway (don't know about CA), for the FZ6. Yamaha figures the FZ6R is what Americans want. It has a look that more appeals to new riders and youngsters. However, more serious riders will note the loss of 20HP, aluminum frame, 4 pot monoblock front brakes, hugger and 190 rear tire.

The additions are adjustable seat and bars which sound like a really good idea.

Tim

Yea i'm finding that a lot of these previously "half-faired" bikes are starting to become fully faired. I'm a fan of the street-fighter look myself...it's a shame the naked fz6 will never see the light of day here

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Rumor has it that 2009 will be the last year, in the US anyway (don't know about CA), for the FZ6. Yamaha figures the FZ6R is what Americans want. It has a look that more appeals to new riders and youngsters. However, more serious riders will note the loss of 20HP, aluminum frame, 4 pot monoblock front brakes, hugger and 190 rear tire.

The additions are adjustable seat and bars which sound like a really good idea.

Tim

I'd like to find that guy who "knows what Americans want" and put him out of our misery. Looks like it's time to visit the Yamaha dealer and see what kind of trade in he'll give me for my 250, because I'll be damned if they'll discontinue a model like the FZ6 without me getting my hands on one first!

[Daeldren]

I don't understand the appeal of the fz6r, for only a bit more you can get an R6S (comfort aside I loved my R6S when I had it. R6S seat was comfy too though)

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by Daeldren

I don't understand the appeal of the fz6r, for only a bit more you can get an R6S (comfort aside I loved my R6S when I had it. R6S seat was comfy too though)

I don't get the appeal either, when for a few bucks more you can get an FZ6, a motorcycle that is a top seller in europe and other parts of the world. We Americans are just idiots. Otherwise we'd have Ninja 250s with FI too. Whoever Kawi polled that said we want cheaper rather than better (just like what's happening with the FZ6 and FZR6) should be lined up and shot with a high-caliber weapon.

[Alex]

I think either the FZ6 or FZ6R would be better bikes for 90% of the riding people do on the street. I owned a 2005 R6, which morphed into the R6S when the new version came out (though they lost the USD forks and high-spec brakes). I found that the R6 was an awful streetbike. The motor is phenomenal, as long as you're at 8K+ rpm and caning the crap out of it. The suspension is brilliant, as long as you're really moving. Comfort is great, as long as you're in aggro-mode, attacking a twisty road at full-bore. But if you dial anything back, it became uncomfortable, unresponsive, and just a pretty crappy streetbike. It's a trackbike in all facets, and as long as its used as such, all is well. The new-gen R6 was even more focused than that, which always makes me wonder why people aspire to one of those and then ride it to/from starbucks at 4000 rpm on the center of the tire.

Both the FZ6 and to a greater extent the FZ6R have actual midrange, where a street rider spends more time than we'd think. That means when you yank that throttle, you get a response, even if the motor isn't spinning at 8K+. And if it is spinning at 8K+ and you do yank the throttle, it doesn't suddenly feel like a superbike and send 110ish hp to the rear wheel compared to the 40 it was making just a second ago. The suspension is that much more plush, the wider bars provide easier leverage and a more comfortable riding position. The seats are more comfortable. The wind protection is better.

In terms of the FZ6 vs FZ6R, most of the comparos I've read this year have the journalists being surprised by the competence of the FZ6R. Many of the complaints of the FZ6 have been remedied on the R, even if ostensibly it's a lower-priced and lower-spec bike. More responsive engine, less buzzy engine, more torque, but yes, it loses much of the top-end hit and has less peak HP. I don't think someone can go wrong with either of those bikes, and I'd certainly choose either of them over either the R6S or the R6 unless I was buying a trackbike.

[Zandit]

What about the Yamaha Diversion? 600, bit more upright but still sporty!

[Alex]

The Diversion in Europe apparently = the FZR6 here in the US. Looks identical to me, at least.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by Alex

The Diversion in Europe apparently = the FZR6 here in the US. Looks identical to me, at least.

Yup, same bike.

Tim

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Yea i'm finding that a lot of these previously "half-faired" bikes are starting to become fully faired. I'm a fan of the street-fighter look myself...it's a shame the naked fz6 will never see the light of day here

great looking bike. the only black eye i see on many water cooled nakeds are how the radiator hoses seem so stick right out, thought not bad on this bike. maybe some braided steel silver ones would hide them even better.

[tc3jg]

yeah my friend just got a pink and white fzr6 2009....its nice but is pretty hot when your not moving sitting at a stop light you can feel the heat lol prob b excellent in the winter time.

[istreefitty]

what about the newest yamaha 600?? supposidly they said "ohh crap we made a new r6 and have all these lod r6 parts sitting in ware houses. lets sell them as a new bike" thus the FZ6R was born

After im comfortable ( and the 600cc+ ban is lifted from my shoulders, and I attend the MSF advance class, and I have over a year of riding under my belt) I will def be looking into the FZ6r or the YZFr-6 (either in raven black) for my next step. I really love Yamahas, specially with halo lights

[headshrink]

I finally FINALLY found a dealler that had the 09 650r in stock (3 actually). Wow, that bike sure is good for your posture
May need to drop those bars about an inch.

To my surprise though, the heals of my feet didn't touch the ground.... I'm about 5'8".

[Greg_E]

I only read part way through the first post... Depending on how you ride I don't know if I would suggest a bigger bike. I started on a 600 sport bike. It was wicked fun at the time, but there is only so much point and shoot that you can take on the road. Run it up in second gear and you are already beyond many speed limits, third will do 100 all day long.

Bigger would be better for cruising, but I think I would go with a BMW for that type of riding. Anything sport type on the roads and I think 400cc would be more than enough to keep you in trouble. Too bad we can't get things like the GSXR400 here in the states.

[HDear]

Originally Posted by headshrink

To my surprise though, the heals of my feet didn't touch the ground.... I'm about 5'8".

There are ways of getting your feet closer to the ground on the 650r.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by HDear

There are ways of getting your feet closer to the ground on the 650r.

I know it.

I checked the seat height between the 2 bikes online, and was surprised to see there is only about 1/2" difference.

[Talonne]

Originally Posted by Cedilla

I guess what im trying to say is I would like the performance of a sport bike on the twisty roads, but I need some touring comfort for the hours of highway riding to get to said road. I think the ninjette does those things pretty well, but I feel really big riding on it.

What about something like the Suzuki V-Strom? Sport touring. It looked pretty freaking tall to me in the showroom.

[smcbride11]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

Bigger would be better for cruising, but I think I would go with a BMW for that type of riding.

Agreed. I'm looking at adding either an Interceptor or a BMW F800ST to the stable. The big advantage of the Beemer is that it's going to add $10 to my insurance - same coverages as the 250. Then I can track the 250 to my heart's content and not worry about taking time to repair the inevitable damage.

As far as best looking manageable bikes to "upgrade" to, I'd be looking at the Shiver, Street Triple and the Monster 696... the 600SS class just doesn't appeal to me for my normal riding, and a good ride on the 250 can get around New Hampshire Int'l Speedway in the same time as a bad ride on a 600.

[Talonne]

I think I will likely have the 250 forever. I am too freaking short to ride anything else. :/ I sat on a LOT of bikes at the dealership and was fully dangling off a lot of them. Not even tiptoed.

I really like the Suzuki Gladius, but I'm pretty much doing ballet pointe feet on it. LOL. Regardless, I want to have 3 years at least on my 250 before actually getting something else. But hey, I can look. :P

[SF-Dug]

650r and SV650 are solid bikes. You can't go wrong with either IMHO from what I've been reading if you are looking to upgrade.

Though for me the naked bikes are were I would lean to if I were to upgrade. I have no great desire for a super sport bike. A Kawasaki's ER-6N (Naked 650r version), Ducati's Monster 696, Triumph's Street Triple, have all caught my eye and yes the euro FZ6R naked version is hot.

The only naked bike in the states which I don't like visually is the Suzuki Gladius. The bike just looks to gaudy with all the chrome on it. Performance wise though I hear it is a very solid bike and a worthy upgrade to the SV650 naked version.

[Alex]

Bump for a classic thread.