The dangers of polyester protective gear

[Rayme]

I spent way more than I needed on my jacket, I got a nice icon leather jacket. It was worth the little bit of money spent...and leather lasts forever. People will have different opinion but I have yet to see a crash where mesh, fabric would protect better than leather.

I don't trust plastic based fabric for protection,, they are made with heat..and can be un-made with heat! (road rash). And it seems the stiching is way easier to let go on poly than leather.

[ASecretNinja]

Originally Posted by SF-Dug

If you trust your skin to a mesh jacket designed primarily to provide comfort in hot weather rather then safety first then be my guest.

My leather Teknic Chicane jacket is heavily perforated, and even has textile components to it, yet I completely trust it to do its job should I go down.

I think this thread can be summed up in you pay for what you get, whether its leather or textile (stop calling it mesh, because ITS NOT; hence my jacket).

And again, will a leather jacket stand up to repeated downings? Sure. But if you're that retarded on a bike that you need a jacket will withstand to you crashing all the time, FIND A NEW HOBBY

[SF-Dug]

Originally Posted by ASecretNinja

My leather Teknic Chicane jacket is heavily perforated, and even has textile components to it, yet I completely trust it to do its job should I go down.

I think this thread can be summed up in you pay for what you get, whether its leather or textile (stop calling it mesh, because ITS NOT; hence my jacket).

And again, will a leather jacket stand up to repeated downings? Sure. But if you're that retarded on a bike that you need a jacket will withstand to you crashing all the time, FIND A NEW HOBBY

It seems some people need to take that giant chip off their shoulders.

All it takes is one bad accident and you are done if you do not have the right gear. There is a lot of good gear out there and then their is crappy gear marketed to folks with the "Xtreme" mentality with emphasis on design rather then the function. Also I've never mentioned anything about reusing gear after you've crashed where the hell did you pull that idea from in my postings? Oh and I was not putting down textiles just the low quality mesh jackets on the market which are out there so relax and breath. There is a clear safety distinction between a full blown textile jacket with say vented slots (Vented designs work better in hot weather then mesh jackets. Vented slot designs can actually trap moister while not exposing your skin to direct wind or sun light. Sweat/moister is what actually what will cool you down in 90+ degree heat.) then a over marketed cheap textile mesh jacket.

In the end its not about being "retarded" or "finding a new hobby" but about making sure that when the day comes when you do go down you have the right gear to potentially save your skin if not life.

[ManyCavies]

Originally Posted by Purspeed

The OP is correct. There are several testimonies online from motorcycle riders who have worn polyester-type materials that have melted into their skin. From what I have read Under Armour is the culpri"

Are these proven testimonies with pictures and/or medical records? I would be very interested to see the proof. Have I also heard from you to not buy Joe Rocket? I spoke with a gal at the Long Beach M/C Show that had gone down in some white Trixie pants and she had no road rash. The leathers held up very well and was still good enough for another ride. She did buy new ones, the very same ones. That says alot.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by ManyCavies

Are these proven testimonies with pictures and/or medical records? I would be very interested to see the proof. Have I also heard from you to not buy Joe Rocket? I spoke with a gal at the Long Beach M/C Show that had gone down in some white Trixie pants and she had no road rash. The leathers held up very well and was still good enough for another ride. She did buy new ones, the very same ones. That says alot.

Proven testimonies?

Unrelated to motorcycle riding but interesting nonetheless is the following about heat and Underarmour...and melting into skin:

"Marines conducting operations outside forward operating bases and camps in Iraq can no longer wear synthetic athletic clothing containing polyester and nylon, Marine Corps commanders have ordered.

The ban on popular clothing from companies like Under Armour, CoolMax and Nike comes in the wake of concerns that a substantial burn risk is associated with wearing clothing made with these synthetic materials, officials said.

When exposed to extreme heat and flames, clothing containing some synthetic materials like polyester will melt and can fuse to the skin. This essentially creates a second skin and can lead to horrific, disfiguring burns, said Navy Capt. Lynn E. Welling, the 1st Marine Logistics Group head surgeon."

http://www.noahshachtman.com/archives/002325.html


About Joe Rocket leathers, the weakness seems to be the stitch pattern and thread material. That's why the product tends to break at the seems often, even when simply sitting on the shelf waiting to be purchased.

But, my information is for everyone's consumption. I encourage you to be a skeptic. Do the research and prove me wrong or right.

I've been studying this stuff for decade and plus seven years.

Btw, I am friends with a former head designer from Vanson's leathers and one of the country's finest leathersmiths (invented the bladder for CamelBacks and did most of the leather for all those heavy metal bands back in the 80's and 90's and he's cool but kind of a strange cat). So, my information comes from primary, secondary and anecdotal reports.

My buddy is a motor officer at a local PD. His JoeRocket leathers (pants/jacket) fell apart on impact when he went down in the canyons on his R1.

I can go on and on.

I put out the info. What you decide to do with it is up to you.

[Sailariel]

As motorcyclists we are fortunate to have a wide array of protective clothing available--and we all have our preferred brand. I like River Road leathers, jacket and pants. I also wear their traditional boots. Their clothing is comfortable and can be worn anywhere. The leather pants are cut like blue jeans and are very comfortable and really no hotter than jeans in the summer. Leather wears a lot better than skin. I have had " Rad Rash" on 15% of my body when I crashed my bicycle on a descent doing 40MPH. I also broke my collar bone in the same crash. I slid about 20 meters flipping over several times. Bicyclists wear Lycra/Spandex and moisture wicking fabric jerseys made of synthetic fabric. My clothes were torn to shreads but there was no meltdown. My helmet was smashed as well. I was glad that I had shaved my arms and legs--makes it easier for the ER people to deal with the abrasions. I still do road races and time trials.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by ASecretNinja

You've been grossly misinformed about mesh (or textile) jackets. Most (if not all) of the higher quality ones have the same armor zones that nice leather jackets have: elbows, shoulders, and a back protector. Some even have CE Knox certified armor, the same good stuff that comes in quality leather ones. I know this because I have been extensively shopping around for a mesh one because I've been roasting in my leather one this summer.

Thankfully I've never had to test it out, but the main difference in collision protection between a quality textile jacket and a leather counterpart, is that the textile won't hold up during as many collisions (between one and three[if you're lucky]). But if you're repeatedly laying down your bike on the street in the first place, there is a good chance that you need to choose a different hobby.

+1. Tourmaster intake 2 has armor and is mesh. Not as good as leather but not a poor choice.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Ash]

Fieldsheer's website that describes abrasion testing:

The chart on the website shows how various materials compared to race leather.

500D Codura: 3,558
Aramid Stretch Fabric: 9,120
1680D Ballistic Plus: 13,120
600D Carbolex: 15,000
1000D Carbolex: 42,312
1680D Ballistic Max: 43,966
1.2 to 1.4 race leather: 59,000

If we look at the Tourmaster ad for the Intake 2 mesh:
Armor-Link mesh material and 600 denier Carbolex® combine with 1680 denier ballistic polyester in the impact areas creating a well-ventilated garment that provides exceptional protection

The mesh would be about 25% of leather in abrasion resistance, and the hi-impact areas would be about 74% of the race leather.

This is of interest for me b/c I need to replace my Firstgear Tex Mesh (I like the Hi-Viz yellow, which the Intake 2 also has) which was only 250D material. I fell off the bike on my entire left side hard enough to score my helmet, break my left collarbone and a get bad case of bursitis on my left hip. BUT I am so glad that the CE shoulder armor and CE elbow armor and CE knee armor and thin foam pad in the hip prevented further bones from breaking. The doc in the said ER that I had hit my shoulder hard enough to break my collarbone but my shoulder was not broken, separated or dislocated.

So it is possible where abrasion resistance is not the only factor to consider for safety, but also impact mitigation.

for more detailed followup info from the website:

http://www.fieldsheer.com/site2009/ff/Material.html

"We submitted fabric swatches of current materials to the largest 3rd party testing facility in Asia, SGS Hong Kong. Under the ASTM D 3886-1999 abrasion testing method, a fabric swatch is placed on inflated diaphragm and above it is a panel with abrasive material which is in constant contact with the fabric swatch. The testing apparatus records the number of cycles/revolutions till the abrasive panel breaks through the fabric."

I hope this give folks more info to make a decision.

Ash

[Mista Bob]

I've seen in person the results of one guy I know doing a high speed slide in textile gear.

Parts of the jacket got folded over and fused together becoming like a hard plastic almost.

Nothing melted to his skin though, but if that can happen there is definitely a chance of it happening.

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by Mista Bob

I've seen in person the results of one guy I know doing a high speed slide in textile gear.

Parts of the jacket got folded over and fused together becoming like a hard plastic almost.

Nothing melted to his skin though, but if that can happen there is definitely a chance of it happening.

That's the thing, people have no idea how much heat can be generated from a bike crash. I mean hell, you can burn your skin just rubbing it fast on a freaking plushy RUG! Imagine pavement !

[Greg_E]

Sounds like the abrasion testing that Fieldsheer did was a slow back and forth scuffing, we need something more like a belt sander for close to real world testing of these garments.

Maybe someone should submit this to Mythbusters and see if they want to give it a go, has all the makings of the type of destruction that brings in good ratings... Drive down the road and drop Buster at high speed and see what happens!

[noche_caliente]

Great idea Greg!

[noche_caliente]

looks like someone has suggested it: http://community.discovery.com/eve/f...01#10419676101

maybe if we get enough of us to reinforce it they'll do it?

We could also arrange for our own testing... sadly there have been quite a few forum members going down lately - if their gear is too damaged to wear again, we could use pieces of it for our own abrasion test

[Broom]

FYI: asked if anyone had any issues with under armor melting under their leathers on the racing boards. heres what everyone said...

http://bbs.125gp.com/ubbthreads/ubbt...070#Post123070

[Sailariel]

If I ever win the Lottery, I would get a leather Aerostitch Transit Suit.