January 7th, 2012, 12:08 PM | #361 | |
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January 7th, 2012, 12:53 PM | #362 |
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Just got mine. The CD ROM fooled me. The standard CD size is something like 5 1/4" which threw off my measurements. I get 4 1/8" x 3 1/4". That means it will fit exactly where the old CDI is with no problems.
I'm not super thrilled with the O2 bungs which turn out to be just big nuts. I also got my 650 cables. They will not work without modification to the throttle body. I need time to study them to figure out exactly what.
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January 7th, 2012, 01:16 PM | #363 | |
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The throttle body looks pretty "meh" to be honest as far as quality is concerned. It has the "look" of being cheaply made especially since I noticed that the left and right half is crooked. Photo below. @ecotrons Is this how it is supposed to be? Crooked? It's pretty obvious that they're not perfectly linear. For the moment, I'm okay with the pulley. Also, I expected the switch to be easily mountable onto the handlebars, not a simple looking light switch. Not a huge issue but I'll have to decide if I want to put the switch in the trunk or purchase another one. Lastly, the packaging was amazing! Very well compacted. Great for most components but the blue fuel line was bent a little too tightly that there are crimps. I'm hoping they'll disappear over time and wont cause any kind of weak spot in the tubing. @n4mwd Yea from just photos of the 650R cables, there's no way to secure them to the TB since there arent any nuts on the end of the cables. I wonder if there are other cables we can use. Let me know if you come up with something.
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January 7th, 2012, 01:39 PM | #364 |
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@setasai it actually looks like you could mod the choke cable to pull the switch on that richener now that I've seen it and let my mind start running Something like this that I threw together in paint lol
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January 7th, 2012, 01:47 PM | #365 | |
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On a small tube like the EX-250 exhaust header you should use an extended length bung. If you use too short of a bung then more than just the tip of the nose of the O2 sensor will protrude into the header tube and that will create a restriction in the header. A restricted exhaust will result in less performance. Here's the extended length bung I used in my project. With the Bosch wideband O2 sensor this bung allows only the very tip of the sensor to protrude into the flow of exhaust gases. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/i...764-p-188.html |
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January 7th, 2012, 01:57 PM | #366 |
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so far i got it all installed but the stock ex250 throttle cables are too short by alot do u think u can switch the decel and accel cables?
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January 7th, 2012, 01:57 PM | #367 | |
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If you can not wait, try to use it until you get the new one. But I need you to ship the bad one back to me for warranty purpose. The quality of TB is not at where we want to be, but cost limited. |
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January 7th, 2012, 02:47 PM | #368 | |
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One thing I did notice by accident is that the injectors come apart. Actually, they are two pieces snapped together (injector and the fuel inlet) so taking them apart doesn't hurt anything. Both inlet and outlet are sealed with O-rings. So I'm thinking dangerously here in that it would be really nice to construct a fuel rail out of copper pipe. Coincidentally, the inlet O-ring seals perfectly to a 3/8" ID copper coupler. Do you know if there are any issues using copper? Since fuel now contains alcohol, it will conduct electricity. So I'm thinking if there are any problems it will be electrolysis related.
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January 7th, 2012, 02:51 PM | #369 |
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has anyone else had issues with the throttle cables or think they can help me out?
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January 7th, 2012, 02:57 PM | #370 |
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January 7th, 2012, 03:05 PM | #371 |
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my cable only goes to the tab thats for the decel cable. and even if i get that far the will only open a bit bc the throttle plate hit the threaded part of the throttle cables
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January 7th, 2012, 03:11 PM | #372 | |
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Honestly, I think that all the work that has to be done to these things to make two wrong parts fit together they could easily just make up a new die cast mold to make a dual TB with everything already in place. If a die cast mold is too expensive, then using stereo lithography parts as lost wax cores would work too. Just my 2 cents. I'm not happy with the pulley. However, it looks like it will be possible to grind off the outer lip of the pulley (which is just spot welded) and replace it with an entire new pulley that is made correctly for the Ninja. It should be possible to bolt the new pulley to the old one. There is enough metal in the old pulley to support tiny threads for the bolts. Some lock tight and lock nuts should be good enough to hold it. Actually, the "pulley" I am thinking about is actually something more like a "Y" with bent over cable hooks on the ends. Look at the OEM carb pulley to see what I mean. The 2009 650 cables fit nicely in the Forbitel mounts, but they stick in too far and prevent the pulley from turning all the way. You could probably get them to work by either grinding the extra off or using a spacer of some sort. Regarding the eco/sport switch, I like the idea of hooking it to the clutch cable.
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January 7th, 2012, 03:12 PM | #373 |
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Are you bottom feeding or top feeding the TB? The cables are supposed to be long enough if bottom feeding.
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January 7th, 2012, 03:25 PM | #374 |
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im bottom feeding and they arent long enough for some reason. its weird
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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January 7th, 2012, 04:06 PM | #375 |
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O2 Sensor Bung Measurements
The bung nut's outside measurement is 25.6 mm (1"). It is 14 mm thick. The inside diameter of the bung nuts is 16mm with a thread pitch of 1.50 mm. I'm thinking its a 16mm bolt, but the outside diameter of the plug threads was 17 mm.
The sensor hex nut is 22 mm (7/8"). There are 6 mm of usable threads available on the sensor accounting for the gasket. From the gasket to the tip of the sensor is 26 mm. With the bung nut in place, the sensor tip extends 12 mm into the header. This does not take into account the grinding that will need to be done on the flat nut to make it fit the round header pipe. The 4 wire sensor looks a lot like this one (Bosch LSU4.2): BTW, Correction on the copper pipe fuel rail dimensions. The inside diameter of the copper fittings is 3/8" but the pipe is actually called 1/4" pipe. So the injector fits 1/4" fittings even though they are really 3/8" ID. So basically, I plan to get a pair of 1/4" copper Tees, some pipe and solder them together to make the rail. I will also need some brackets to keep them from popping off under pressure, but the fit looks perfect. The advantage to using this type of rail is that the injectors can mount at any angle which makes the electrical connectors less stressed.
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January 7th, 2012, 04:39 PM | #376 |
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Does anyone know if pregen throttle cables are shorter than new gen cables? i am sure that the ones im using cannot be used for these tbs.
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1990 250F. ex300 motor swap, 15/42 gearing, flush side markers, newgen intergrated front fairing, rear integrated turn signals, DB Touring Bubble, zx600 rear shock, Custom DanMoto Exhaust |
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January 7th, 2012, 05:05 PM | #377 | |
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Quote:
it seems we have to separate the kits for 3 classes: new-gen, pre-gen, pre-94. It looks like for "pre-94" models, customer cables are must. One thing I can think: the stock decel cable is longer than accel cable. For initial test purpose, you may use just one cable: decel cable as the accel cable. As long as the throttle plate does not stick and can return to idle position, you are fine with one cable. Actually we did use the decel cable as accel cable for injector-on-the-top installations, which is barely long enough. And the one cable solution has been fine for that bike (we put enough lubrations on the cable and throttle linkage to avoid sticky plate). But in the long term, you'd have to get customer cables. Sorry, this is out of my expection (pre-94s). |
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January 7th, 2012, 05:14 PM | #378 |
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I don't think copper is a problem here. Injectors are fine with copper fuel rail.
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January 7th, 2012, 05:19 PM | #379 | |
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I suspect they are shorter on the pregen. I'm trying to find out for sure, but it will take a while.
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January 7th, 2012, 05:26 PM | #380 |
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Matt (ecotrons), was the file for the injectors on top included on the CD or will we get an email?
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January 7th, 2012, 05:33 PM | #381 |
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Does the ECU draw power from the battery when the key switch is off?
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January 7th, 2012, 06:36 PM | #382 |
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Ecotrons Fuel tap
I noticed an issue with the fuel tap. The fuel tap looks like its designed for Suzuki style gaskets which have dividers that separate the screws from the fuel section. The kawasaki O-ring gasket doesn't have dividers. Shown below is a kawasaki o-ring gasket OEM# 51039-003. Also, it does not fit inside the groove properly. If there are no dividers, then it would seem that some other kind of sealing method must be used to prevent the gas from leaking out the screws.
Where do we get the proper gasket for the ecotrons fuel tap?
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January 7th, 2012, 06:47 PM | #383 | |
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Quote:
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January 7th, 2012, 07:14 PM | #384 |
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Looks like pregen owners will need to order the newgen gasket.
--- Matt, I have been reviewing the Ecotrons documentation and there seems to be a discrepancy regarding the orientation of the pressure regulator. On page 5, you show the flow going in through the top and out the side. On pages 13, 16 and 35, you show the flow going in the side and out the top. Does it make a difference or is page 5 an error?
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January 7th, 2012, 07:27 PM | #385 | |
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Quote:
ECU is partially ON for 5-10s and takes minimum power (50mA) after the key switched off: For this 5-10s, ECU stays in "house-keeping" mode: all big power consumers injectors, fuel pump, ignition coils, O2, etc are off. Only the main CPU is on, and doing the house keeping work, which is mainly to save all the learnt data to memory. |
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January 7th, 2012, 07:47 PM | #386 | |
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Quote:
Actually please use the new manual that is sending now via Email to you all (1.8M, do not want to jam ninjette.org). It is recently updated, which will be published on our website soon anyway. |
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January 7th, 2012, 08:15 PM | #387 |
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This gasket is an exchangeble part for some other bikes. Coincidently we have another group of people converting Suzuki DR650 dual sports, and the gasket is same as Ninja 250's.
Attached picture of DR650's petcock with Gasket. Matt |
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January 7th, 2012, 08:42 PM | #388 | |
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The batteries aren't very big on these bikes so even a small draw will kill the battery after a while. Regarding the ECU and weak batteries, when the bike cranks, the battery voltage drops due to the load from the starter motor. How low can the battery voltage get before the ECU fails.
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January 8th, 2012, 08:17 AM | #389 |
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650 throttle cables
I attached my 2009 650 throttle cables to my pregen handlebar control and they fit perfectly. I don't see why they couldn't be used in place of 2006 cables. I'm a little concerned about the overall length, but they look like they will do the job. There won't be a lot of extra length to spare. The decel cable has a metal tube on the bar end that isn't on the original pregen cables. This makes the fit a little odd, but it will still work.
I did some measuring for making the cable bracket for the throttle body. These measurements are measured on the throttle body end from the cable stop ferrule to the inside of the cable end nut. The adjusters were set about midway. Acceleration cable (the one with the black plastic thing on the end): 110 mm idle / 50 mm WOT Deceleration cable: 60 mm idle / 120 mm WOT Both cables have a 60 mm pull. The type of pulley we use will determine the shape of the cable bracket. EDIT: Those pulls are maximum cable pull and require the control grip to be twisted 190 degrees. The OEM carbs only pull about 25mm to go from idle to WOT.
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January 8th, 2012, 09:10 AM | #390 | |
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Depending on one feature called "engine off timer / soak timer" is enabled or not in calibrations, I'll get back to you on this...
Quote:
ECU can work as long as the battery voltage is more than 9V. but the problem is the fuel pump and injectors, they do not provide enough fuel or does not even open once the battery voltage drops below 10V. And ignition coils may not get enough power so misfires happen. A safe bet is to maintain you battery above 11V for start. this definitely depends on the quality of the battery and also the age of the battery, even with same voltage like 12V, you can easily kill an aged battery by a few start attemps. |
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January 8th, 2012, 01:41 PM | #391 | |
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January 8th, 2012, 05:29 PM | #392 |
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If the "after 10s" off power drain is less than 5ma, then it should be fine.
I think the UK version cuts all power to the ecu by the keyswitch. The last thing they want is a bunch of bikes with dead batteries on their showroom floor. PS- Matt, would it hurt to kill all power to the ECU when the switch is turned off?
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January 8th, 2012, 05:51 PM | #393 | |
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10s is for ECU to do house keeping: save all self-learning data. If you disconnect ECU during this time, or actually if you disconnect ECU when key is ON; you will lose all the self-learning data. But it is not recommended to disconnect ECU when it's still ON, it could cause some transient loads and damage the ECU ( very very small possibility, but not impossible). In short, key off and leave it. If you want to disconnect the battery, give it 10s after key off. |
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January 8th, 2012, 07:18 PM | #394 | |
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Ecotrons' kit draw max 3.5A current, which is about 45W, if your battery is 13V (normal during running). The biggest one is fuel pump, drawing 2.3A, then 2x O2 sensor, about 0.9A average. the rest is trivia. These are the add-on power draw. Ignition coils are not counted because that's stock coils. Injectors draw some power transiently. In short, 45W power draw is not a big deal for Ninja 250r. No battery low problem ever so far. Our EFI kit can work with 125cc, 150cc scooters and monkey bikes, with no power shortage. The only problems reported so far are with 50cc scooters. Sports bikes like Ninja 250r have more than enough charging power to run this kit. |
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January 8th, 2012, 08:03 PM | #395 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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January 8th, 2012, 08:06 PM | #396 |
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It's not quite as upright as the 250. Legs are more bent, spread wider, and further back, and the bars are wider and a little further forward. I was very impressed with that bike though. Silky smooth, with lots of power without being peaky and insane like the 6R or 10R. Still a very comfortable bike though.
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January 8th, 2012, 08:27 PM | #397 |
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ok guys i got about everything right on the bike. just need to put in the battery and put the positive and negative cables on. Looks like everything went goood and the decel cable worked really well so far. ill let everyone know on that but tomorrow should be running if i get no check engine light or anything else.
O yeah on the check engine light the wire is really short. i wanted to put it on the dash or somewhere close but i placed it near the battery. might lengthen that later.
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January 8th, 2012, 08:32 PM | #398 | |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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Quote:
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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January 8th, 2012, 08:39 PM | #399 |
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oh yeah. Loads better than a supersport. If I were going any long distance, that's the bike I would choose. Power, comfort, agility, but not old-guy-sports-tourer like the Concourse
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January 8th, 2012, 09:36 PM | #400 | |
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Quote:
But since most of the time the bike will be running at speed (with 45W to spare), it should even out as long as there aren't too many other things plugged in such as heated gloves (30W), etc.. Regarding the check engine light, exactly what does it signify? That is, what's broken when its lit? Does it flash with a code or something?
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