Twist of the Wrist 2 Vid

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by notsofast

Thank you! His articles are really inspiring.

You are welcome

You can find some more inspiring useful articles here:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sc...reak/articles/

[Misti]

Originally Posted by notsofast

Found a link that worked, is the narrator one of the dudes that commentates for motogp? or maybe sbk?

Pretty sure it is!

Edit: Do you guys have any tips for practicing quickturning, downshifting while braking, and the two step? I really need to work on those.

The thing about quick turning is that you can try to simply practice turning the bike quicker by giving a firmer push on the bar, however, if you are not looking at the right place at the right time then no amount of telling yourself to "press harder" will work. So, you mention also wanting to practice the 2-step. I'll bet anything that if you improve your two step method then you will automatically begin turning the bike quicker because you will have more confidence in knowing exactly WHERE you want the bike to be.

Think about it like this, the earlier you look into the turn and spot your apex, the more information you will have about the corner. The more info you have about the corner, the more confidence you have in pressing the bar and the more likely you will get to the spot you are looking at (the apex).

So, in order to practice the two step you want to try to look into the turn BEFORE you actually turn the bike. It should be like this: LOOK………..(still going straight)……..TURN! I sometimes scream into my helmet to look

Now, timing? How early would you want to look into the turn?

[adouglas]

As early as you can.

BTW I've been practicing vision drills lately. The wide-screen thing can be pretty trippy.

[Sirref]

It's funny how the one thing I remember from my msf course is "slow look press roll" which is largely the same thing and is amazingly crucial to not only riding a motorcycle but driving a car. I still find myself more comfortable with driving, particularly when it comes to approaching my perceived limits of the vehicle (which in my car are ridiculously high thanks to autocross) The thing that helps most in riding is definitely to look as far ahead as possible as soon as possible, in this current winter weather with ice patches everywhere it's particularly difficult to do even at slower speeds.

[rasta]

Wait a tick, I saw a post on the last page about something called "two step". What is that? A quick google search (for "motorcycle two step") didn't really yield any help. It's been a few months since I last watched TOTW...

[Sirref]

it's an eye technique, you specifically practice looking into a corner long before actually turning in, making it 2 separate steps instead of the common 1 step that most people seem to use for it.

[adouglas]

Step 1: Identify the point where you intend to tip in.
Step 2: Identify the apex

When you shift your vision from the first to the second, you're no longer looking directly at where you start your turn.

[rasta]

OOooooh okay. Great, I already do that! Or at least make the effort to.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by rasta

Wait a tick, I saw a post on the last page about something called "two step". What is that? A quick google search (for "motorcycle two step") didn't really yield any help. It's been a few months since I last watched TOTW...

Link to original page on YouTube.

Ain't many texans in here huh???

[rasta]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Ain't many texans in here huh???

Mmmm this is what I first thought of..

Link to original page on YouTube.

Guess that means I'm closer to black than texan

[JohnnyBravo]

[Misti]

Originally Posted by adouglas

As early as you can.

BTW I've been practicing vision drills lately. The wide-screen thing can be pretty trippy.

As early as you can, once you KNOW you are going to hit your turn in point The tendency for a lot of people is to turn in too early when they try the two step because it can be unnerving at first to be looking into the turn while the bike is still moving forward. So, as long as you are certain you are going to hit your turn in point (you keep it in your peripheral vision) you can look into the turn to spot your apex.

So, the tendency is to turn in early if you look into the turn too early. What happens if you are late with the look in? If you are looking and turning almost at the same time? Or, what are the benefits of the "two-step" technique?

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Misti

As early as you can, once you KNOW you are going to hit your turn in point The tendency for a lot of people is to turn in too early when they try the two step because it can be unnerving at first to be looking into the turn while the bike is still moving forward. So, as long as you are certain you are going to hit your turn in point (you keep it in your peripheral vision) you can look into the turn to spot your apex.

So, the tendency is to turn in early if you look into the turn too early. What happens if you are late with the look in? If you are looking and turning almost at the same time? Or, what are the benefits of the "two-step" technique?

Misti, what's the difference between the two schools; Code R.A.C.E. and the Cali Superbike School?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Misti

As early as you can, once you KNOW you are going to hit your turn in point The tendency for a lot of people is to turn in too early when they try the two step because it can be unnerving at first to be looking into the turn while the bike is still moving forward. So, as long as you are certain you are going to hit your turn in point (you keep it in your peripheral vision) you can look into the turn to spot your apex.

So, the tendency is to turn in early if you look into the turn too early. What happens if you are late with the look in? If you are looking and turning almost at the same time? Or, what are the benefits of the "two-step" technique?

I love it when you ask these questions, Misti.

If you're late with the look-in you could run too deep/turn too slow/miss your tip-in point, which means you'll be making steering corrections mid-corner, and that's not optimal... maybe SR3 (narrowed and hunting field of vision) because you'll be scrambling trying to find your mark while turning the bike. Maybe SR6 (ineffective steering). Maybe SR7 (braking errors). In short, the bike won't be in the groove and set up for the turn until it's already in the turn. Messy.

If you look and turn at the same time, similar thing... you're probably not going to be on the right line and will have to make corrections when you should be accelerating smoothly.

As I understand it, the optimum is to assume the position, tip in and once the throttle is cracked open, you shouldn't need to do anything but roll it on... all the line choice and turning is already done.

[rasta]

An issue for me isn't necessarily turning in too early, it's starting my line too far towards the middle. It's somewhat of a mental block because setting up for a lefty hairpin would mean I'm close to the edge of the road on the right. I know I SHOULD be further to the right edge, but I notice I'm often much closer to the middle. Anything I can do to get over that block? Or is it just a matter of growing a sac and doing what I know I should do lol

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by rasta

An issue for me isn't necessarily turning in too early, it's starting my line too far towards the middle. It's somewhat of a mental block because setting up for a lefty hairpin would mean I'm close to the edge of the road on the right. I know I SHOULD be further to the right edge, but I notice I'm often much closer to the middle. Anything I can do to get over that block? Or is it just a matter of growing a sac and doing what I know I should do lol

It sounds like this is a confidence issue, you feel as if you look towards where you want to go before you turn and you can no longer see your turn in point then you will blow the turn in point. Your mind is correcting for this for you by putting you in a position where if you blow the turn in point you don't go off the road. I'd say that the easy way for you to get over this would be either track time or simply slowing down and being more deliberate about where you place the bike on the road. Do you have your turn in point in your peripheral vision as you're looking at the apex or are you already looking at the vanishing point? (vanishing point = farthest point that you can physically see ahead of you on the roadway and or the next turn in point) This was my problem when practicing the 2-3step on my own. I would be looking at the vanishing point before my turn in and would no longer see my turn in point in my peripheral vision. On roads where I know the road this wasn't a problem but when riding down roads for the first or second time I would have to wait until after my turn in to shift my vision past my chosen apex to the vanishing point.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by Sirref

It sounds like this is a confidence issue, you feel as if you look towards where you want to go before you turn and you can no longer see your turn in point then you will blow the turn in point. Your mind is correcting for this for you by putting you in a position where if you blow the turn in point you don't go off the road. I'd say that the easy way for you to get over this would be either track time or simply slowing down and being more deliberate about where you place the bike on the road. Do you have your turn in point in your peripheral vision as you're looking at the apex or are you already looking at the vanishing point? (vanishing point = farthest point that you can physically see ahead of you on the roadway and or the next turn in point) This was my problem when practicing the 2-3step on my own. I would be looking at the vanishing point before my turn in and would no longer see my turn in point in my peripheral vision. On roads where I know the road this wasn't a problem but when riding down roads for the first or second time I would have to wait until after my turn in to shift my vision past my chosen apex to the vanishing point.

Yeah seems like the key is improving my turn in points. Seeing the turn in point earlier. This is still what I've been practicing more than everything. Speed isn't an issue, lowsiding was a huge eye-opener for me, I ride at 75%of potential now.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Misti, what's the difference between the two schools; Code R.A.C.E. and the Cali Superbike School?

Code R.A.C.E is more geared towards riders that want to get into racing or are already racing. We do exercises in consistency, radar lines, starts, braking and downshifting and mock races. There are no passing rules (like in CSS) and it is pretty fast paced and wicked fun

CSS has four levels and a set curriculum for each level, riders start at level one regardless of riding experience or speed and work through the levels. There are 5 skills taught per level and riders follow a format of seminar and then riding on track to practice that specific drill. There are strict passing rules (6-8ft minimum) and corner workers and staff make sure that students are working on the drills and practicing the correct skills.

It is not necessary for students to have taken CSS before going to the race school but it is highly beneficial for them to come to the school already knowing the skills from the first 3 levels.

Let me know if you have any more questions about this!

Originally Posted by adouglas

I love it when you ask these questions, Misti.

If you're late with the look-in you could run too deep/turn too slow/miss your tip-in point, which means you'll be making steering corrections mid-corner, and that's not optimal... maybe SR3 (narrowed and hunting field of vision) because you'll be scrambling trying to find your mark while turning the bike. Maybe SR6 (ineffective steering). Maybe SR7 (braking errors). In short, the bike won't be in the groove and set up for the turn until it's already in the turn. Messy.

If you look and turn at the same time, similar thing... you're probably not going to be on the right line and will have to make corrections when you should be accelerating smoothly.

As I understand it, the optimum is to assume the position, tip in and once the throttle is cracked open, you shouldn't need to do anything but roll it on... all the line choice and turning is already done.

Thanks! Yep, you pretty much nailed it. If you are too early with your look in then you might turn too early or apex too soon or you might lose sight of your turn in point or not even be able to see the apex yet. If you are too late with the look in you won't benefit from gaining information about the turn. When you get the two step just right the benefit is increased entry speed (because your sense of speed slows down when you look into the turn early) AND very consistent lines, you spot your apex early and are more likely to get to it then if you look and turn at the same time

Originally Posted by rasta

An issue for me isn't necessarily turning in too early, it's starting my line too far towards the middle. It's somewhat of a mental block because setting up for a lefty hairpin would mean I'm close to the edge of the road on the right. I know I SHOULD be further to the right edge, but I notice I'm often much closer to the middle. Anything I can do to get over that block? Or is it just a matter of growing a sac and doing what I know I should do lol

Great observation and great question, it is a mental block yes but it comes from something you are doing, or not doing with your visual skills. Let me ask you this, when you are approaching said turn, how much of the track can you see? Can you see from edge to edge or does your vision tunnel down a little bit so you are only seeing the middle portion of the track?

[rasta]

Originally Posted by Misti

Great observation and great question, it is a mental block yes but it comes from something you are doing, or not doing with your visual skills. Let me ask you this, when you are approaching said turn, how much of the track can you see? Can you see from edge to edge or does your vision tunnel down a little bit so you are only seeing the middle portion of the track?

I've never been on the track, so I'm gona replace "track" with "street/lane"...

Where I have the biggest trouble are on blind curves and hairpins (surprise? lol). So I can only see as much of the road as the hill on the side of the road will allow me to see. As I approach the turn, I look for my turn in point, and as I get closer, I look through the turn.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by rasta

I've never been on the track, so I'm gona replace "track" with "street/lane"...

Where I have the biggest trouble are on blind curves and hairpins (surprise? lol). So I can only see as much of the road as the hill on the side of the road will allow me to see. As I approach the turn, I look for my turn in point, and as I get closer, I look through the turn.

Only real way to deal with this is to know the road and have it in your mind's eye. I've lost track of how many blind corners I've gone into the first time where if I was going hot I probably wouldn't be around right now. Luckily memorizing roads/lines is a skill that I've been honing since I started driving so after 2-3 times I know exactly where I want to be with my eyes closed (obviously I don't recommend riding with your eyes closed unless you're proving a point on a track)

[csmith12]

Hey @rasta! Have peek at the "Look through the corners" link in my sig. Near the end we cover blind corners and I believe there is a link to a write up on the "vanishing point" when riding on unfamiliar roads.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hey @rasta! Have peek at the "Look through the corners" link in my sig. Near the end we cover blind corners and I believe there is a link to a write up on the "vanishing point" when riding on unfamiliar roads.

That's an awesome thread, I can't believe I hadn't seen it. I especially liked this question by Alex

Originally Posted by alex.s

so here is a question that has been puzzling me... where are you looking during blind corners where you cant see the apex or exit? i find my self looking at where i think the apex is, even though i cant see it... seems like a waste of my vision. what do you think?

Because that's basically exactly what I was asking earlier.

Another n00b question, are hairpins all double apex? I noticed in TOTW, they said you're supposed to setup again for the second part of the curve. I think a big reason I'm still babying hairpins (other than still being pretty n00b) is that I'm not approaching them like I should approach a double apex. Hm?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by rasta

Another n00b question, are hairpins all double apex? I noticed in TOTW, they said you're supposed to setup again for the second part of the curve. I think a big reason I'm still babying hairpins (other than still being pretty n00b) is that I'm not approaching them like I should approach a double apex. Hm?

Are they ALL double apex? Nah, actually I have found "true" double apex turns kinda rare. What I do see very often is a rider's line of choice through the hairpin may turn it into a double apex. Realize that even though I have visited my fair share of tracks as of now, there is a whole world of tracks that I haven't seen.

For example; Mid-Ohio has a hairpin (turns 4 & 5 on the map) that I commonly use 3 lines to get through. The chicane just before the hairpin makes it even more fun.

Line 1: Squared off - I don't use this line very often, it's a hard line for me to get right, it feels sketchy to me at my top pace, has me braking deep into the corner and has me tightening my line in an odd part of the corner due to the slight downhill slope.

Line 2: Double apex - The most common faster line for me as well as others. Enter tight and apex very early, throttle out (go wide), hook turn to reel it back in (tighten the line) for a seconds apex about 3/4 through the corner. The problem with this is, your leaned over more & longer, it's pretty easy to not get the hook turn right (go wide and stay wide), mess up the line and your drive out of the corner is toast because throttle control errors are common here. "Maintenance throttle" & "Pause" the roll on are common terms that you hear riders say to describe the hook turn portion of the line.

Line 3: Quickturn/quickflick: - A safer line through the hairpin with a really late turn in point. Allows me maximum time to set entry speed and for better visibility around the corner. Most importantly, allows for a solid, smooth throttle roll throughout the corner. The key to this is to get the bike turned faster.

Now I know you need the "street" version though. For me on the street, I almost always use a quickturn/flick (Line 3) and hook turn technique to hold my line and/or tighten it as needed. Also, there is only a need for one corner setup and we get a smooth, confident throttle roll.

Lemme ask you these questions;
If your turn in rate is slow (lazy steering), what do you think will happen mid-corner?
Where do you think a good turn in point is for hairpins? Early, late or really late?
There are many lines through a corner, how do you know you have found a good one?
How does your line through the corner differ from the image below?