F***! Bolt snapped!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you do not need any kind of lube to put a bolt into a properly sized hole. if you do, it has either rusted out, covered in paint, or is not the correct size

Very broad statement. You should not NEED lube for a bolt to physically twist into a properly threaded and sized hole, but lube on bolt threads is useful for keeping bolts quiet for applications where the bolt sees cyclic forces. Dry bolt + dry threads + cycles of loading = creaking. Harmless, but annoying. Think about bicycles and how every single bolt is lubed during assembly. Why? Because they creak if you don't.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by accumack

What torque was used? It got tight and the op continued to tighten it until it broke he was wrong. If you don't know the difference you shouldn't touch your bike. The seller is not responsible for negligence.

Excuse me?

Torque? I tightened it by hand with an alan wrench, so very little torque was used. Bottom line, I ordered 1.25 they sent me 1.5, I didn't double check the threads because they advertise a 100% customer satisfaction guarantee. I am not satisfied with their screw up, Yes I broke the bolt. But they gave me the wrong bolt to begin with, I will be claiming a refund and I'll get it since ebay will protect me from being screwed over.

I'm going to refrain from making any personal comments on how you failed to read everything that was said in this thread.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Very broad statement. You should not NEED lube for a bolt to physically twist into a properly threaded and sized hole, but lube on bolt threads is useful for keeping bolts quiet for applications where the bolt sees cyclic forces. Dry bolt + dry threads + cycles of loading = creaking. Harmless, but annoying. Think about bicycles and how every single bolt is lubed during assembly. Why? Because they creak if you don't.

sure. but these bolts are torque locked. and none of them really see the kind of heat cycling you're talking about except inside the engine. or maybe the rotor bolts. but most of those are either submerged in oil, or glued. my 3d printer however.... every damn bolt is greased

[cadd]

I personally use white lithium grease on every single bolt I screw on. It prevents it from rusting and seizing up. And from what I've read (anyone care to confirm?) grease actually helps a bolt from loosening up.

Perfect example of this was a hitch ball on my truck. Didn't have lube. 5 yrs of it outside in the elements. Getting the bolt off was a battle. New hitch ball: after 5 yrs of use. Installed with grease. Exposed to the same elements. Still as tight as it was from day one. But easily removable.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by accumack

What torque was used? It got tight and the op continued to tighten it until it broke he was wrong. If you don't know the difference you shouldn't touch your bike. The seller is not responsible for negligence.

no.

the bolt should strip before it breaks from tightening.

[choneofakind]

...you can apply enough torque with an Alan wrench to shear off a small bolt... You weren't being stupid proof.

Fact of the matter (nothing personal here, I swear) is that you turned a bolt till it broke. I know there are manufacturing flaws in bolts and some are very brittle compared to others... But to a point, the end user needs to remember to not force bolts that don't feel right. Life lesson

And really, chasing down reimbursement? Dude. How much did those honestly cost? Not worth it if I were in your position. I would just go get the right hardware, make it work, and move on with my life. Meh.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...you can apply enough torque with an Alan wrench to shear off a small bolt... You weren't being stupid proof.

Fact of the matter (nothing personal here, I swear) is that you turned a bolt till it broke. I know there are manufacturing flaws in bolts and some are very brittle compared to others... But to a point, the end user needs to remember to not force bolts that don't feel right. Life lesson

And really, chasing down reimbursement? Dude. How much did those honestly cost? Not worth it if I were in your position. I would just go get the right hardware, make it work, and move on with my life. Meh.

dont forget a ****** ebay review. always give ****** ebay reviews when a product is crap. and don't allow sellers to bribe you into good reviews.

[accumack]

You were wrong and are screwing someone for your mistake. Your generation is full of not taking responsibility it always someone else's fault. Even if it was the wrong bolt it was your responsibly to make sure it was it fit. Even a poor quality bolt takes a fair amount of force to snap.

[accumack]

What did you pay $10 and you're pissed about broken bolt go to the hardware store and buy 2 bolt for under $2.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by accumack

You were wrong and are screwing someone for your mistake. Your generation is full of not taking responsibility it always someone else's fault. Even if it was the wrong bolt it was your responsibly to make sure it was it fit. Even a poor quality bolt takes a fair amount of force to snap.

you are speaking out of your ass, sir.

if i bought something, i would expect it to be what i paid for.

if i bought a bolt, i would expect that it wouldn't snap in half with so little force that the head doesn't even see damage.

"screwing someone for your mistake"... it is his mistake that the wrong bolt was mailed to him? it was his mistake that that bolt was such ****** quality that it literally snapped in half? do you have any experience with metal? do you really believe a bolt should just snap like that before damage occurs to the head?


you sound like a terrible business person who is pissed that people give you bad reviews for your ****** business practices.

[cadd]

It is NOT the OP's fault. The seller sent him the wrong item. The seller should have the due diligence to make sure he/she sends out the correct item.

On the eBay link, the seller specifically asked each buyer to specify which threads they need when ordering the spools. If the OP specified he needed 1.25 and received 1.5, it is the seller's fault.

Quality of the item is a different story. That is all manufacturer. The seller is merely the middle man. The buyer shouldve done enough research to know what type of product he's getting for $10.

[accumack]

He was trying to be cheap! You get what you pay for! He thought he was getting a steal? There is a reason it was cheap quality costs money! The computer generation has NO CLUE they don't believe they need to pay for stuff. Nothing is their fault! You have to take some responsibility.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by accumack

You were wrong and are screwing someone for your mistake. Your generation is full of not taking responsibility it always someone else's fault.

Boy, that escalated quickly. From one person to a whole generation, just like that. Woah! Clearly the actions of one person must extrapolate accurately over millions of other cases.

Your generation must like to ignore grammar rules. Cearly you also enjoy pointing out faults, rather than helping fix them. Remember that your generation is in the process of hiring ours to replace an outdated workforce.

[broilmebk]

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by accumack

He was trying to be cheap! You get what you pay for! He thought he was getting a steal? There is a reason it was cheap quality costs money! The computer generation has NO CLUE they don't believe they need to pay for stuff. Nothing is their fault! You have to take some responsibility.

i'm going to be very clear, so there is no chance i can be misunderstood.

i think you are an idiot.

i also think you have no clue how todays markets work.

the world changes. you seem to have stayed the same.

[accumack]

Maximum torque for the bolt for the spool is 25 ft lbs. Which not much force.
I retired form the service sector you are right choneofakind I probably shouldn't lump everyone into same group but it really gets frustrating seeing as whole the lack of taking responsibility by the younger generation. When I grew up we took responsibility for our mistakes. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Hero Danny]

Wow, not sure what I did to piss off that guy. Whether it is $10, or $100 if I get the wrong product i'm going to return it. End of story. Sure, I take responsibility for the bolt breaking, but it was still the wrong bolt. I did a little research and saw that people were saying the bolt would get tighter as you kept going. That's what I thought was going on.

I'll report back what happens with the seller, he'll be mature about it. He has good feedback.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by accumack

Maximum torque for the bolt for the spool is 25 ft lbs. Which not much force.
I retired form the service sector you are right choneofakind I probably shouldn't lump everyone into same group but it really gets frustrating seeing as whole the lack of taking responsibility by the younger generation. When I grew up we took responsibility for our mistakes. I'll get off my soapbox now.

so is it your opinion that regardless of any mistakes the seller made, it instantly becomes completely the buyers fault because he wasn't savvy enough to measure the thread pitch before he tried screwing it in? and then continued thinking the paint had to be scraped in?

when was the last time you bought a part that was specified for a specific bike, got the thing and said "you know what? i'm going to measure the pitch on this bolt."... because i'm guessing that's a big NEVER.

you buy a part. it is supposed to be the correct part. not the correct part? sellers fault.

[salcuta88]

Originally Posted by accumack

He was trying to be cheap! You get what you pay for! He thought he was getting a steal? There is a reason it was cheap quality costs money! The computer generation has NO CLUE they don't believe they need to pay for stuff. Nothing is their fault! You have to take some responsibility.

Just take a chill pill.

[Skullz]

You were at the hardware store and did not buy a pair of new bolts to use so you could get them on the bike?
I bought some spools this past spring and they sent one M6 for another bike and the proper m10 for mine, so i just punched the center out of the M6 one and called it a day after getting a new bolt from the store as i only paid 10 bux for the kit i didn't feel like bothering the vendor cause of mismatched parts from the factory they weren't able to foresee.
Honestly though you buy a cheap set of parts that a bolt breaks and you want to waste the time to send them back is silly when you could buy the bolts locally and call it done.

[Brother Michigan]

As in most things, the blame lies somewhere in the middle here. The seller should have sent the right part, Danny shouldn't have tried to force the bolt in. The seller may or may not try to make things right, but that's the risk when attempting to save a few bucks.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

As in most things, the blame lies somewhere in the middle here. The seller should have sent the right part, Danny shouldn't have tried to force the bolt in. The seller may or may not try to make things right, but that's the risk when attempting to save a few bucks.

nobody seems to understand that even if it was the correct pitch, the bolt would have quickly broken from the weight of the bike that it IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HOLD.

the fact that he could break it with his hands means the bolt was NOWHERE CLOSE TO STRONG ENOUGH.

whos fault is that? 100% the sellers fault. the seller sourced the bolt, which not only was the wrong size, it was apparently cast from pewter.

100% the sellers fault.

even at $10 for the entire kit, a high quality bolt costs maybe $.50c when bought in singles. do you really think $10 does not cover the cost of high quality materials? it very much easily does.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Skullz

You were at the hardware store and did not buy a pair of new bolts to use so you could get them on the bike?
I bought some spools this past spring and they sent one M6 for another bike and the proper m10 for mine, so i just punched the center out of the M6 one and called it a day after getting a new bolt from the store as i only paid 10 bux for the kit i didn't feel like bothering the vendor cause of mismatched parts from the factory they weren't able to foresee.
Honestly though you buy a cheap set of parts that a bolt breaks and you want to waste the time to send them back is silly when you could buy the bolts locally and call it done.

Of course I tried buying some, but they didn't have the kind that you use with an alan wrench

[Brother Michigan]

Seeing as all we have here is anecdotal evidence, I think I'll stick with my last post (unless, of course, someone wants to go have the bolt tested for hardness )

[LittleRedNinjette]

@accumack

[salcuta88]

Originally Posted by alex.s

even at $10 for the entire kit, a high quality bolt costs maybe $.50c when bought in singles. do you really think $10 does not cover the cost of high quality materials? it very much easily does.

Well said!

[Somchai]

@alex.s - Sorry, but you're 50% wrong when you say: "whos fault is that? 100% the sellers fault. the seller sourced the bolt, which not only was the wrong size, it was apparently cast from pewter. 100% the sellers fault."

This is right only when everything is mounted in the correct way, but that wasn't the case. When the thread was opened there was a picture showing that the spools where mounted in the opposite direction (strange, the picture became deleted...)
Why did the picture become deleted???

Also me thinks that @accumack engraved into a hornet's nest when I read this from you (by the way there is much more and not only from you): "i think you are an idiot. i also think you have no clue how todays markets work. the world changes. you seem to have stayed the same."
Why do you call him an idiot, when he's speaking out the truth?

Let me tell you: Yes, the world has changed, but absolute not for the good side.
@accumack is right when he says: Your generation is full of not taking responsibility it always someone else's fault.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@alex.s - Sorry, but you're 50% wrong when you say: "whos fault is that? 100% the sellers fault. the seller sourced the bolt, which not only was the wrong size, it was apparently cast from pewter. 100% the sellers fault."

This is right only when everything is mounted in the correct way, but that wasn't the case. When the thread was opened there was a picture showing that the spools where mounted in the opposite direction (strange, the picture became deleted...)
Why did the picture become deleted???

Also me thinks that @accumack engraved into a hornet's nest when I read this from you (by the way there is much more and not only from you): "i think you are an idiot. i also think you have no clue how todays markets work. the world changes. you seem to have stayed the same."
Why do you call him an idiot, when he's speaking out the truth?

Let me tell you: Yes, the world has changed, but absolute not for the good side.
@accumack is right when he says: Your generation is full of not taking responsibility it always someone else's fault.

Picture isn't deleted, I may have taken off the link, but when they were mounted incorrectly, that was simply the aluminum pieces that were. Not the screw. It makes no difference.

Are we seriously still talking about generation X vs y????? SERIOUSLY???!?!? Fine, I was trying to avoid this because it is completely OT but generation X is the generation responsible of getting us 17 trillion dollars in debt. What about the housing crisis? Oh yeah, that was caused by idiots who kept refinancing their houses and buying stuff they cannot afford. Bottom line is I see people who are well into their 50's who say and do stupid things all the time. I see younger guys (early 20's) who are dumb and some who are respectful and contribute to society. So let's quit playing the blame game on something as broad as generations and get back to the point..

I already got a message back from the seller, he's completely relaxed and happy to issue me a refund. I'll update how it goes, but he agrees he must have sent the wrong bolt, quality control in china (if that's where the company is located) isn't exactly top notch i'm guessing.

Also Alex was just defending me because accumack stepped way out of bounds with his comments about how i'm cheap because I wanted a refund because I was shipped the wrong item. Also alex brings up another great point, if the bolt SNAPPED under the pressure of my hand, who's to say it wouldn't snap under the pressure of my 385lb bike on it's rear stand???

[MrAtom]

Note to self: bolts are a touchy subject for some people.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Note to self: bolts are a touchy subject for some people.

The only thing touchier is the subject on nuts.

[Ducati999]

Sorry to go off topic on the off topic part of the thread. Danny, I live in Southbridge and I have a full set of metric Taps you can borrow if you need to clean up the threads. You can PM me if you need any help. I have a fairly well stocked tool box and I am always willing to help a fellow member. I also have a nice torque wrench and a rearstand that will fit your bike (does not require spools) since it works on my wifes bike. There is also a hardware store less than a mile away that has the bolts you need in stock and they are cheap.

PS. I lube all my bolts and rarely use locktite. I just regularly check torque on all my bolts. I do maint before and after every ride.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by Ducati999

Sorry to go off topic on the off topic part of the thread. Danny, I live in Southbridge and I have a full set of metric Taps you can borrow if you need to clean up the threads. You can PM me if you need any help. I have a fairly well stocked tool box and I am always willing to help a fellow member. I also have a nice torque wrench and a rearstand that will fit your bike (does not require spools) since it works on my wifes bike. There is also a hardware store less than a mile away that has the bolts you need in stock and they are cheap.

PS. I lube all my bolts and rarely use locktite. I just regularly check torque on all my bolts. I do maint before and after every ride.

Thanks! Southbridge is about 2 hours away from me. But I'd be willing to make the haul if need be. I appreciate it and will keep you guys posted on my spool situation

[LittleRedNinjette]

Wow, this escalated quickly...

Here's my take for what it may be worth after lots of dealings on ebay and with my mechanical knowledge.

As far as who is at fault? First or all the sell is if he sent the incorrect bolt. This would not be the first time I have seen or heard of this. Danny holds the responsibility for not checking the bolt (though I can understand why, it was supposed to fit) and then forcing the bolt to the point that it snapped.

As far as how strong the bolt was? It was probably just fine if it had been used the way it was intended. Even the strongest bolt will become compromised and snap when twisted like that. I see it happen all the time when my boyfriend (mechanic for a living) or myself have worked on other vehicles. Bolts just aren't designed to twist.

I can dig up the technical mumbo-jumbo later if anyone wants.

And for the tangent about this generation and responsibility? Hell no, most people nowadays do not take responsibility for their actions. But it is not a generational problem. It's cultural. It's never "my" falt. "That coffee was too hot" "McDonald's made me fat".

Anyway, not the case here but you get my point.

We that's my :2xents: again for what it's worth on this topic.

P.S. I hate keyboard cowboys...

*slowly backs away*

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Wow, this escalated quickly...

Here's my take for what it may be worth after lots of dealings on ebay and with my mechanical knowledge.

As far as who is at fault? First or all the sell is if he sent the incorrect bolt. This would not be the first time I have seen or heard of this. Danny holds the responsibility for not checking the bolt (though I can understand why, it was supposed to fit) and then forcing the bolt to the point that it snapped.

As far as how strong the bolt was? It was probably just fine if it had been used the way it was intended. Even the strongest bolt will become compromised and snap when twisted like that. I see it happen all the time when my boyfriend (mechanic for a living) or myself have worked on other vehicles. Bolts just aren't designed to twist.

I can dig up the technical mumbo-jumbo later if anyone wants.

And for the tangent about this generation and responsibility? Hell no, most people nowadays do not take responsibility for their actions. But it is not a generational problem. It's cultural. It's never "my" falt. "That coffee was too hot" "McDonald's made me fat".

Anyway, not the case here but you get my point.

We that's my :2xents: again for what it's worth on this topic.

P.S. I hate keyboard cowboys...

*slowly backs away*

I think you hit it dead on.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Bolts just aren't designed to twist.

I can dig up the technical mumbo-jumbo later if anyone wants.

would like to see.

keep in mind it was an allen head.

[LittleRedNinjette]

^^ I'm waiting to hear back from my bolt expert buddy. He has the info.

[Hero Danny]

Well, I was issued a full refund. I offered to send the item back but the seller refused. He was easy to work with and absolutely had no issues refunding me. It sounds like this is a common problem on his end, since he even refused when I offered to show him a picture of the incorrect thread.

I do feel bad for him, but he made a mistake and he made it right. My bike isn't damaged and I'm not out of any money. So I guess we can say the only thing wasted was time, but a valuable lesson was learned. If a bolt doesn't feel right, just assume it's wrong, especially if it's from ebay. lol

[cadd]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

Well, I was issued a full refund. I offered to send the item back but the seller refused. He was easy to work with and absolutely had no issues refunding me. It sounds like this is a common problem on his end, since he even refused when I offered to show him a picture of the incorrect thread.

I do feel bad for him, but he made a mistake and he made it right. My bike isn't damaged and I'm not out of any money. So I guess we can say the only thing wasted was time, but a valuable lesson was learned. If a bolt doesn't feel right, just assume it's wrong, especially if it's from ebay. lol

[Rifleman]

Hopefully this isn't adding fuel to the fire.

the reason I said "of US manufacture" is because several years ago (and still some today) there was a flood of inexpensive fasteners from China. The head stamp was correct, but the material and manufacture processes were not.

these were often referred to as "counter fit bolts"

the threads are always the weakest part of the make up. The threads in the nut/hole will always pull out before the bolt head shears off so long as the bolt head is supported and the torque is applied 90' to the bolt face.

Support the bolt with one hand, while applying torque with the other. You should pull the threads out before the bolt breaks.

[LittleRedNinjette]

I wish that my buddy had gotten back to me with that info... I cant find the paperwork from the bolt class my boyfriend took...

All well. Not that it matters much at this point but i'll keep looking.