Next dumb question - body position transitions

[lowcel]

First time I met csmith12 I thought I was going to see dirt flying. He saved it, it wasn't pretty but he did save it.

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hmmmm, In Gurk's defence, I (and talented others) have gotten off the seat pretty late (after the fact) and all has worked out, I credit this to the bike being better than me/us. While I don't like the feeling, some may dig it. I ain't convinced that it's "sheer physically impossible." 2 seconds in the brake zone is like.... forever mang!!! And one can do alot in 2 seconds. I can link some vids where I blow a few corners (ask @lowcel ) to show how late you can get without any real big deal (imho) as long as you don't panic, pass some liter bikes and still have a good time. Again being real like Gurk says, it takes training and repetition for a rider to get off the seat BEFORE braking or later without issue... why? Think about it...

Although, from my experience... this is not what top pack A group track day riders, nor top level racers do, but hey... I aint nobody to judge, I have seen some real sh*t....



All I am saying is when you think humans (riders) have reached the limit, you are proven wrong, someone always ups the bar.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by lowcel

First time I met csmith12 I thought I was going to see dirt flying. He saved it, it wasn't pretty but he did save it.

Awesome first impression aye? I don't always blow corners but when I do, I make sure to miss the braking marker at 155mph at the end of 3000ft of straight.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hmmmm, In Gurk's defence, I (and talented others) have gotten off the seat pretty late (after the fact) and all has worked out, I credit this to the bike being better than me/us. While I don't like the feeling, some may dig it. I ain't convinced that it's "sheer physically impossible." 2 seconds in the brake zone is like.... forever mang!!! And one can do alot in 2 seconds. I can link some vids where I blow a few corners (ask @lowcel ) to show how late you can get without any real big deal (imho) as long as you don't panic, pass some liter bikes and still have a good time. Again being real like Gurk says, it takes training and repetition for a rider to get off the seat BEFORE braking or later without issue... why? Think about it...

Although, from my experience... this is not what top pack A group track day riders, nor top level racers do, but hey... I aint nobody to judge, I have seen some real sh*t....



All I am saying is when you think humans (riders) have reached the limit, you are proven wrong, someone always ups the bar.

i don't think you are picking up what I am putting down

He says, "all weight on bars", ok got it. "No weight on feet", ok got it. Then says something along the lines of "It is easy to pick your butt UP OFF THE SEAT when you have no weight on your legs" which also means feet by association ? Well then what the hell are you using to pick your ass up if you are not using your legs or your feet? See the physical impossibility here

To pick your butt up off the seat you would need to put some weight into your legs at least and probably down into your feet into the pegs I just don't see a way around this to where it would actually make sense as a riding technique what so ever.... ya dig?

[csmith12]

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Gurk

Ken Hill, YCRS, Bradley Smith....

I know they are all clueless....

Also first thing I said is there's different schools of thought on this. That was my attempt to not stir the pot. But here we have some guy who attended what? 5 races in his life and crashed out 3 out of those telling me I'm giving bad advice. If there's a rule around here like whatever anyone says that goes against CSS is wrong, let me know. I'll stop posting.

i looked up a bunch of ken hill and ycrs and bradley smith videos. not once did i get to see them recommend putting any weight on the bars or moving body position once you're in the turn. darn i was expecting a good laugh. in fact they were giving pretty good advice which was disappointing.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by subxero

i don't think you are picking up what I am putting down

He says, "all weight on bars", ok got it. "No weight on feet", ok got it. Then says something along the lines of "It is easy to pick your butt UP OFF THE SEAT when you have no weight on your legs" which also means feet by association ? Well then what the hell are you using to pick your ass up if you are not using your legs or your feet? See the physical impossibility here

To pick your butt up off the seat you would need to put some weight into your legs at least and probably down into your feet into the pegs I just don't see a way around this to where it would actually make sense as a riding technique what so ever.... ya dig?

or they have immaculate core strength.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by cbinker

or they have immaculate core strength.

even then, no weight through your legs or feet, pick your butt up off the seat ? only thing connecting you to the bike that is not mentioned as having no weigh are your hands. So somehow you are picking your entire body up through your arms from the bars?

Maybe you fart and that picks your butt off?

cock push up?

IDK?

[alex.s]

well you're braking at the rate of a motogp bike on the r6, so you have a lot of force pulling forward, like 18G minimum. that's more than a fighter jet! so it's like doing a handstand pushup on the bars while simultaneously operating the brake lever and clutch and shift pedal. it's EASY to pick up your butt and move it in that situation.

[csmith12]

lol, let's just say some things get lost along the way of a VERY literal translation.

[cuong-nutz]

[Misti]

Hehehehe, this thread had me cracking up. Great discussion!

Here is my take on it. After a long straight where there is heavy braking I'd move my body over first and squeeze the tank with both knees. Some people use just the outside knee as Alex so perfectly describes below but I like to keep both knees firmly locked to the tank to prevent me from sliding forward and putting extra weight on my arms. From there, I'd downshift, initiate turn in and once the bike began to turn i'd just let my inside leg flop into the turn.

Most instructors/racers out there would agree that you want to move around on the bike as little as possible, hence the reason why you get into your hang off position BEFORE the corner) and that extra weight on the handlebars should be avoided.

Now, having raced AMA for two years and experienced some pretty heavy end of straight braking before, I'd say that no matter how hard you squeeze the tank with your knee or knees and how relaxed you manage to keep your arms there will still be SOME weight on your arms and hands, because you're just going that f'in fast....

The idea here is that you get your body into position before you begin your braking, you squeeze the tank with your outside knee or both knees and you move around on the bike as little as possible.

Originally Posted by alex.s

there is a way. and it doesn't make sense until you try it. with the bottom of your foot, pull the peg toward your butt with your outside leg. this action pushes your leg into the tank, secures your ass to the seat, and stiffens your outside flank. leaving your arms free to flop around and your inside leg loose to drag or kick or whatever you want. while you are pushing back like this during braking, almost all your weight goes to your outside thigh on the tank. keep your butt back a little so its the middle of your leg cause noone likes hitting the jimmies.

Well explained. What I do, though I keep the inside knee firmly pressed to the tank as well.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Misti

Here is my take on it. After a long straight where there is heavy braking I'd move my body over first and squeeze the tank with both knees. Some people use just the outside knee as Alex so perfectly describes below but I like to keep both knees firmly locked to the tank to prevent me from sliding forward and putting extra weight on my arms. From there, I'd downshift, initiate turn in and once the bike began to turn i'd just let my inside leg flop into the turn.

Most instructors/racers out there would agree that you want to move around on the bike as little as possible, hence the reason why you get into your hang off position BEFORE the corner) and that extra weight on the handlebars should be avoided.


The idea here is that you get your body into position before you begin your braking, you squeeze the tank with your outside knee or both knees and you move around on the bike as little as possible.

I completely agree. My first move is always to position myself steadily before beginning other inputs on the bike. Then I am already into position, I can brake as I'm settled, downshift, (both with a steady bike), and lean, while using clutchless upshifts to stay in my position until my bike is completely out of the corner.
My coaches always commented positively on how early I set my body position before a corner. It made the other inputs easier to manage when I didn't have to worry about putting too much physical pressure on my bike. I trust my bike (and physics) more than myself ( though I trust me, too, just not as much ), so I tend to like to get myself out of the way as soon as possible so then, on the track, there is less to worry about. Physics is the exact same every time. Barring a mechanical, rubber, or pavement failure, a bike will perform the same way in the same corner every time. A rider, however, is the wild card. Get iffiest part out of the way first, and trust the other **** to fall into place. The times I've relied on myself and forgotten that, the bike and I have suffered.