Chicken strips?

[geeker]

I remember reading a thread on another forum where a guy sanded off his chicken strips and then was baffled when they returned after his next ride.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by geeker

I remember reading a thread on another forum where a guy sanded off his chicken strips and then was baffled when they returned after his next ride.

[cbinker]

uh.

[spooph]

@allanoue - sorry if I offended you. I didn't quote you through the quote feature because I didn't want to single you out, just use your statement as an example as I didn't have a better way of saying it.

Also, sorry to anybody who took offense to this and who thinks that my recommendations are dangerous. I believe that I stated that it's not about chicken strips, having them or scrubbing them off, but rather in continually striving to be a better rider.

I was simply trying to make the point that chicken strips is another tool in the tool box to becoming a better rider, just like video taping one another, or taking photos to read body position. I also realize it's risky to put this information out there as somebody will undoubtedly abuse or misuse it.

However, I felt comfortable posting it, and saying what I say, because I believe in the Ninjette.org membership. These are smart, safe and careful people. The attitude on the forum is to be safe. To be safe, you have to continually strive to be better, otherwise you get complacent and might start thinking that you are good enough, or safe enough and that's a recipe for danger.

So, I'm not going to point fingers, name names, resort to name calling or false accusations. I am here to help, to share in solid facts and help explain how things work for those who can use it. If you disagree with me, fantastic! Please explain to me where my thoughts are incorrect, and what a reasonable alternative is.

However, simply being uncomfortable with my words because they don't fit the status quo, or reflect the ever-fearful wrap-it-in-bubble-wrap-because-life-is-too-dangerous attitude of so many people isn't gonna cut it. Give me logical reasoning or facts on why the members of ninjette aren't capable of doing these things, or practicing them in a safe and reasonable fashion and becoming better riders for it...

Motorcycle are dangerous, they kill people, and if somebody's life can be saved because they practiced using their entire tire to avoid a collision then my job is done here...


@CZroe - to answer your question, yes, however it is dangerous as it puts your center of gravity in the wrong place. By placing your weight on the inside of the turn it pushes the bike more upright and allows for more grip to be available. However, when reacting quickly sometimes it's impossible to get your weight to the inside, and you have to manipulate the bike instead. This does not change the force on the contact patch of the tire, and is considered dangerous as it inspires a false sense of confidence, since the rider is experiencing being upright and confident, but the bike and the tire is much closer to it's limit and something could scrape and/or dirt will be much more effective at causing the bike to slide.

For instance, if it was better to lean the bike more instead of placing your weight on the inside of the turn, motogp riders would be sitting bolt upright and leaning the bike over very far... Conversely, if trails riders didn't need to adjust and balance the bike's inertia with their own, they'd put their weight on the inside of the turn instead of sitting upright and leaning the bike to which ever way it needs to go. Does that make sense?

[rojoracing53]

I buy all my tires used and with all of the edges already scrubbed in so I look like a badass every time I pull up to a Star$ to posture.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I buy all my tires used and with all of the edges already scrubbed in so I look like a badass every time I pull up to a Star$ to posture.

where do you pick up your tires??

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

where do you pick up your tires??

Just the guy behind the corner liquor store in the unmarked black cargo van. He says they are brand new and he just belt sands them a bit to give the added affect of skills. I think its worth the extra $10 over retail to know your getting a quality product

He also has GSXR frames and children for sale from time to time although I don't know about buying kids with no papers.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Just the guy behind the corner liquor store in the unmarked black cargo van. He says they are brand new and he just belt sands them a bit to give the added affect of skills. I think its worth the extra $10 over retail to know your getting a quality product

He also has GSXR frames and children for sale from time to time although I don't know about buying kids with no papers.

does he price match the children

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

does he price match the children

I'll ask him next time but really I just pick my fronts used from the track if possible. The rears have mostly been new tires as I keep experimenting on different types. I'm pretty sold currently on the Michelin pilot road radial right now thing just seems to last.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by spooph

so what's this talk about chicken strips not being a reflection of your ability? I realize it's in an attempt to keep people safe, however, instead of making a stupid statement that incorrectly and inaccurately devalues the information of tire wear, including chicken strips, have a little bit more respect for the brains who visit this forum and spend the time typing, or get a voice to text app if you're not willing to type....

Therefore... It is EASIER to remove chicken strips from road tires than track tires... Now most people think you have to go fast to remove chicken strips when all you really need to do is to turn tight....

^you can only turn as tight as said turn allows sooo IMO not exactly and I generally don't encourage people to scrub their strips at intersections making 90 degree right's or left hand turns

Originally Posted by spooph

3.) The manufacturer has designed every part of the bike to work safely together. IE - for the 250, the edge of the 130 tire also happens to be exactly where the peg feelers start to scrape.... Therefore, if you scrape pegs, you'll have just a hint of chicken strip "feathers" left on the tire. You can drag peg with in/correct body position, good/bad habits, but you have to practice and gain experience and ability to do it comfortably, and that I believe translate into skill....

^soo I just have to aim to scrap my peg and that's how I will know I probably shouldn't lean much further because at that point i will not have much tire left but my chicken strips will be mostly gone so... oh happy day Hey newbz, Just lean till you scrape your peg, it's like a built in safety limit feeler, once you feel it start to scrape just bring it back up mid corner and don't freak out, it's all good

Originally Posted by spooph

Thus, with enough training, practice, miles you CAN remove chicken strips on the street while staying within the speed limit, and it is a sign of how experienced you are and how well you can use, or ABUSE your skills..

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that your riding style, or the fact that you have chicken strips or not isn't a GOOD thing or a BAD thing, however, it is a good reflection of how capable you are and a good indication of how much more practice is necessary.

^ but you said it is a sign of how experienced I am and how well I can use my skills, but that isn't a good or bad thing?

Originally Posted by spooph

Knowing when/where to practice/improve and what is dangerous or not BEFORE you do it is mature and wise...

^like just turn tighter scrapping peg in the street dangerous, mature and wise or are we talking about something else

Originally Posted by spooph

Along with that, the goal shouldn't be to shrink your chicken strips... That's kind of like trying to get a knee down.... And that's kind of like owning a Corvette so you can drive around looking cool in it. Don't go for a show/the look/trying to impress people.

Ride, practice, get better, don't be stupid, take a class if you have to, find experienced, patient teachers and above all, be smart and forget what other people think. Eventually, the chicken strips will shrink, but the GOAL should be to have fun and be safe.

YES! ****

Originally Posted by spooph

My apologies if I offended anybody, but ultimate statements like:

"If you manage to scour off your chicken strips doing street riding only, you're doing some seriously reckless stuff. Better hope the cops don't see you."

"or your body positioning is really bad, in which case good luck and hope you don't crash soon"

and similar are simply judgemental and will keep people from learning to be better riders, and THAT will cost lives...

agree to disagree

[spooph]

Good feedback, thanks @subxero!!! Now I know where the miscommunication happened!

I've been mixing and matching terms and I shouldn't have. By street, I meant public domain, ie - not the track. This includes parking lots, which are great places to practice. I was hoping that folks would then translate that into "after being thoroughly practiced in a parking lot, could be applied to the open street" for the sake of brevity. Next time I will be more explicit.

Also, I should have broken it down into steps. I thought by explaining the furthest most possibility (the most extreme case) people would be able to break it down and see their own steps to that goal. IE - a turn has a maximum speed for any given situation (rider, bike, surface conditions, mental state, tires, etc, etc, etc) and was trying to show people that it's possible and therefore attainable, should be a goal, but not necessarily a common practice.

I guess I also assumed (my bad) that most people understand that a skill is a learned ability and carries no connotation or implication as to it's moral judgement (good or bad), or it's application (safe or dangerous) as per the dictionary. I guess common culture has incorrectly associated those properties and it needs to be re-defined. I view skills as tools to be able to do things with, and they can be used to do something in a safe way, or in a dangerous way, in a good way, or in a bad way.

Example: To be able to wheelie is a skill. It requires great balance, exact clutch manipulation and fine throttle control. A smart person would go about it systematically and in a safe way starting slow and getting better and better. Once they're able to wheelie very well, very slow parking lot maneuvers or emergency swerves would be as easy as breathing.

So I'm not saying people should practice wheelies, and definitely not do them in high-risk situations (like the open road), I was trying to point out that it IS possible to do a wheelie (as an allegory to shrinking chicken strips) and that if somebody so desired, to go about practicing it in a safe manner, but that you don't have to go to a track, and that once that skill is well practiced, that it could be applied to daily riding.

Whether or not it should be applied to the street is a completely different discussion, one of morality, risk and maturity, which has nothing to do with the development of a skill.

I have a problem with people being brainwashed, with ultimate statements of any sort. It turns people into sheep, it diminishes critical thinking and problem solving, and THOSE are very important skills when it comes to staying safe on the road. That is why I tried to support the original poster by trying to explain what is possible, and where the boundary of "too far" is and that working away your chicken strips CAN have rewards to keep you safe, if you have the right mindset. I'm not forcing anybody to do anything, nor encouraging people to do something they don't feel comfortable with, just trying to broaden the scope.

Maybe I shouldn't have given the benefit of the doubt... Next time there will be more hand holding.

[subxero]

I am sorta picking up what you are putting down but a few things are still slipping through the cracks.

No need to hold hands, maybe just trying being more clear next time, yeah that's a good start

so again... agree to disagree

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by spooph

Good feedback, thanks @subxero!!! Now I know where the miscommunication happened!

I've been mixing and matching terms and I shouldn't have. By street, I meant public domain, ie - not the track. This includes parking lots, which are great places to practice. I was hoping that folks would then translate that into "after being thoroughly practiced in a parking lot, could be applied to the open street" for the sake of brevity. Next time I will be more explicit.

Also, I should have broken it down into steps. I thought by explaining the furthest most possibility (the most extreme case) people would be able to break it down and see their own steps to that goal. IE - a turn has a maximum speed for any given situation (rider, bike, surface conditions, mental state, tires, etc, etc, etc) and was trying to show people that it's possible and therefore attainable, should be a goal, but not necessarily a common practice.

I guess I also assumed (my bad) that most people understand that a skill is a learned ability and carries no connotation or implication as to it's moral judgement (good or bad), or it's application (safe or dangerous) as per the dictionary. I guess common culture has incorrectly associated those properties and it needs to be re-defined. I view skills as tools to be able to do things with, and they can be used to do something in a safe way, or in a dangerous way, in a good way, or in a bad way.

Example: To be able to wheelie is a skill. It requires great balance, exact clutch manipulation and fine throttle control. A smart person would go about it systematically and in a safe way starting slow and getting better and better. Once they're able to wheelie very well, very slow parking lot maneuvers or emergency swerves would be as easy as breathing.

So I'm not saying people should practice wheelies, and definitely not do them in high-risk situations (like the open road), I was trying to point out that it IS possible to do a wheelie (as an allegory to shrinking chicken strips) and that if somebody so desired, to go about practicing it in a safe manner, but that you don't have to go to a track, and that once that skill is well practiced, that it could be applied to daily riding.

Whether or not it should be applied to the street is a completely different discussion, one of morality, risk and maturity, which has nothing to do with the development of a skill.

I have a problem with people being brainwashed, with ultimate statements of any sort. It turns people into sheep, it diminishes critical thinking and problem solving, and THOSE are very important skills when it comes to staying safe on the road. That is why I tried to support the original poster by trying to explain what is possible, and where the boundary of "too far" is and that working away your chicken strips CAN have rewards to keep you safe, if you have the right mindset. I'm not forcing anybody to do anything, nor encouraging people to do something they don't feel comfortable with, just trying to broaden the scope.

Maybe I shouldn't have given the benefit of the doubt... Next time there will be more hand holding.

SO I have read all you have written in the last few posts and I agree with most of what you have said and I also understand that you must first cultivate the skill then the result will "just happen". I have been riding for almost 25 years and I have very this strips on all of my tires. I have never been to the track (going on Sunday for 1st time) but I do find "safe"(as possible for the street) places to lean the bike way over. I usually do on highway on ramps. Around here some of them have smooth pavement with a nice grade downhill , extra wide lane with large open run off on both sides and no oncoming traffic plus great visibility so carrying some speed and extra lean angle has little risk. I guess what I am trying to say is that my "maturity" and skill has caused me to find only safe (safest outside of a track environment) areas to practice strip removal. I believe SUBXERO has a valid point in that we all need to qualify nearly everything we say about our sport because we all know the risk/rewards but all the non riders and noobs do not. I am not really good at putting thoughts into writing but I think you can understand what I am trying to get across. There are the people who know and the people who think they know and finally the ones that know they don't know. The ones that think they know are the ones which are most likely to misinterpret what is said here and try something dangerous. Like you said " If my words teach one rider to lean better and they avoid a crash then it is worth it" I believe Subxero feels that if one person makes a bad decision based on not properly understanding what you written then it is not worth it to him. Glad you can both agree to disagree but we are all responsible for how we may influence other rider with our words. Ride safe

[Ducati999]

PS I believe you both did great in expressing your opinions and it is wonderful to read a disagreement with out any name calling!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by spooph

Maybe I shouldn't have given the benefit of the doubt... Next time there will be more hand holding.

Knowing your target audience goes a long way. Although, "hand holding" is perceived as a negative. I try to present it as "seeding a path to success" that you walk alongside the learner.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Track riders show your chicken strips. All others, move a long nothing to learn or prove here.

Here is mine, after 4 races, 6 track days and being just shy of 2 seconds off the lap record pace at the tracks I ride. Tires still going strong! But I have a bit of rebound cupping I have to sort. I could care less about what the tire looks like as long as it wears well. Also, this tire is on my bike in my avatar pic. So yea, you can nearly drag elbow and still come to the paddock with strips.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Knowing your target audience goes a long way. Although, "hand holding" is perceived as a negative. I try to present it as "seeding a path to success" that you walk alongside the learner.

am I missing something here? The quote in this post of yours has CZroe as the poster of the said quote, but it is something that Spooph said in post #171

Did CZroe say it before somewhere and I missed it?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by subxero

am I missing something here? The quote in this post of yours has CZroe as the poster of the said quote, but it is something that Spooph said in post #171

Did CZroe say it before somewhere and I missed it?

WTF yea!!! how did that happen? Lemme fix it. Good catch, thanks.

[CZroe]

[BoBO]

Originally Posted by Ducati999

PS I believe you both did great in expressing your opinions and it is wonderful to read a disagreement with out any name calling!

That's what so cool about this forum.

[subxero]

Check out this square i have been rocking on my bike. Stock IRC, just under 10k commuter miles on it

Getting a new tire today.

[choneofakind]

Now that's just impressive!

[subxero]

force for tipping the bike in vs lean angle would look like a logarithmic curve

[burningscooter]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I couldnt care less about what the tire looks like as long as it wears well.

FTFY.

Also, +1.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by subxero

Check out this square i have been rocking on my bike. Stock IRC, just under 10k commuter miles on it

Getting a new tire today.

You could have removed the kickstand a few months ago. When you stop riding, just get off.

[Finesse]

wheeeeeee

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by subxero

Check out this square i have been rocking on my bike. Stock IRC, just under 10k commuter miles on it

Getting a new tire today.

All these years and I didn't realize the Ninjette would take a sidecar.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

All these years and I didn't realize the Ninjette would take a sidecar.

hahahahahaha

alright here are mine:
Ninja 300 daily commuter on michelin pilot street radials with approx. 3.5-4.5k miles
Ninja 250 track bike on pirelli sport demons with approx. no miles, you can tell (mostly on the front tire) that shenandoah is a left heavy track. I did ~4 sessions on the tires and that is the entirety that I have ridden that 250 with the insanely aggressive setup that it has so I was spending some time adjusting to the bike and track along with the track pace.

[Ninjinsky]

Seriously Subxero After that with the new tires that is going to feel like a completely new bike, your cornering confidence will shoot up.
Report back on the difference, I think you will be amazed

[subxero]

^ difference in ride height, and tip in force alone should make for a completely different ride

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by subxero

^ difference in ride height, and tip in force alone should make for a completely different ride

won't hurt that you just did a valve adjustment

[adouglas]

On the street my strips have been about an inch wide.

I just got back from my first track day, Didn't expect this to happen, but it did...

GONE.

Same rider, same bike, same skill set.

Just goes to show how different an experience the track is.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Nice. Look worn well not shagged. What kind of tires?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Just goes to show how different an experience the track is.

What were you expecting, silly?! Did you love it or did you love it?!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by subxero

Check out this square i have been rocking on my bike. Stock IRC, just under 10k commuter miles on it

Getting a new tire today.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Nice. Look worn well not shagged. What kind of tires?

Brand-new Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa, ridden at newbie-group pace.

I wasn't the fastest rider in the group, nor was I the slowest. Passed more than I got passed.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

What were you expecting, silly?! Did you love it or did you love it?!

Did better than I expected. Learned more than I'd hoped. Had a BLAST!!!!!!

[DCMoney]

No chicken strips in this house!....

[sharky nrk]

I really like the rear stone, I wish I liked the front as much even in DOT form

[Sirref]

^ now THAT is a nicely worn tire