Best 1000cc Beginner Bike? :P

[krolinked]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

@krolinked You know you can change the sprockets to make the gearing as high or low as you want it, right?

The final sprockets yes, But i mean the transmission ratio's. IDK how i would change those...

[krolinked]

Originally Posted by Dopamine

Wow I seriously cant comprehend what your saying... You've crashed 3 times on a 250 and you want a 600/1000 bike??

Good luck dude...... Both bikes will spit you out if you don't respect them

I've pushed too much on the 250 and crashed. I will definitely respect any bike I ride, The crashes weren't due to power but because of rider input/road characteristics.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by krolinked

Excellent advice! Thank you. I wont be going for a 1k anymore. So now its a decision between 600s. I love the way the R6 is described, but is the powerband really that insane? I've no idea because The 10r i rode really didn't have much of a power band or i didn't notice it. Or i wasn't WOT

You want supersport posture or 250 posture?

supersport posture is kinda like doing it doggy style except you are the dog and not the human

[Gurk]

OP: Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. Some of them have crashed their bikes just as many times (if not more) as you did. Some of them did this with no gear. Some of them don't ride responsibly on the street. Take my word for it. But I won't point fingers....

People on this forum tend to feel like a support group at times. They think it's ridiculous to buy anything larger than a 250 and there's no need. Well, I don't believe in "NEED". No one here NEEDS a bike. Hell you don't need a car why not just use public transportation.


Now... There's people also just looking out for you here. Which is good. Nobody will sway your opinion. If you're dead set on a 1000cc, get it. But be responsible. No body who have posted on this thread so far (me included) don't use their bikes to the full potential. Hell, most don't use their 250 to their full potential. Which is ok.

At the end of the day, after 21k experience, if you believe you can ride responsibly, CC's don't matter. People forget that there's always option to not twist the throttle the whole friggin way. Not many have the restraint, well, that's on YOU.

So get whatever you want. We can't tell you you don't deserve it or you won't be fine.


If you were buying it for track use only though, I would definitely suggest 600cc. Hell if I did it all over again, maybe I would even keep my 250 for track. There's a good chance I won't ever use my r6 to its full potential.

Street, you don't have to use ANYTHING to its full potential. 250, 600, 1000.

So get whatever you want!


Peace.

[hillbillyhank]

I have an 06 r6. The power-band is very shy at about 6k and once you reach 10k hold on for dear life because your face is about to melt off. Pair that with switching gears and you're in the wicked power-band every gear after 1st. It is very exciting, but you must respect it.

- Edit; This bike is stock as far as performance and it is scary at first until you get used to it. Just imagine exhaust and power commander.

[5evenz]

Buy a Zx-14,, maayyybeee a busa but only if its got turbo+nitro. make sure if you buy either get a big ass stretched swingarm. Problem solved

[krolinked]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You want supersport posture or 250 posture?

supersport posture is kinda like doing it doggy style except you are the dog and not the human

I love supersport posture for solo. But idk about two-up.....

[Jiggles]

IMO 2 up is easier in a supersport setup. Then your lady friend (or dude if your into that) can put their hands on the tank easily

[krolinked]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

IMO 2 up is easier in a supersport setup. Then your lady friend (or dude if your into that) can put their hands on the tank easily

Really? Well if that's the case then perfect! Supersport posture will work out.


I'm leaning towards an R6 but i hear the seat is bad? Anyone with an R6 notice this?

[hillbillyhank]

Originally Posted by krolinked

Really? Well if that's the case then perfect! Supersport posture will work out.


I'm leaning towards an R6 but i hear the seat is bad? Anyone with an R6 notice this?

Not really. YMMV though.

[ninjaone]

I'd say 1000 supersport bikes are more for beginners then 600 supersport bikes but that's probably a very minority opinion. 1000 supersport bikes have a great power band for the road, they have torque everywhere and and a very "usable" type characteristic to them. 600s are peaky, temperamental, and the dual personality of the engine makes them more tricky to navigate in corners. After 22k miles on a 250 I'm sure you have the throttle control down to handle either but the 600 would be more likely to take you by surprise in a corner if you aren't paying attention to the revs.

I don't know why people are so obsessed about the top speed of first gear. How often do you really red line first? Either 600SS or 1000SS are happy to loaf along the highway in 6th gear, the difference is in a 1000SS you can just twist to go, and on a 600 you might need to downshift. If you want to have fun on the roads you'll need to dip into the upper power band in the 600 but on the 1000 you can just twist from basically anywhere. That's why a lot of people prefer commuting on a 1000 - more usable and predictable power band.

A lot of modern 1000 supersports have traction control and ride by wire throttle maps which can actually reduce power as you are getting used to the bike too.

You also say you care about two up comfort, but supersports are really not designed for that. Most of them come with a rear seat cowl for a reason. If you are serious about two up riding you owe it to yourself to take your passenger along with you to test a few bikes. Streetfighter bikes tend to put more effort into the pillion seat but again that depends on model and brand.

[Jiggles]

Yea 600s have a far less usable power range considering they make 3-4x more power at comparable rpms than a 250. Just, super duper unusable.

My 650 had more than enough power at every rpm for the street, a 600 has even more, and a 1000, man hang on.

And throttle control on a 250 does not transfer to a 600-1000. I had to relearn throttle control on both the 650 and 1k

Thats a good one though, less usable power

[Trailerboy531]

I personally don't see the point in having the power of a liter bike on the street..uh...ever.

600s haul ass. Not a little bit of ass; a hell of a lot of ****ing ass. R6 owners will all tell you, because it's true, that the power band starts out at 8k. That's not to say that below 8k doesn't feel fast to those of us who ride 250s daily, but after 8k the party really gets started. It's also the most aggressive positioned bike as you're leaned over a bit more. Some people like this, some don't. I personally don't mind it but find the gsxr and the zx6r more comfortable without a doubt.

The GSXR, ZX6R and CBR all have more usable mid range than the R6 but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a massive night and day difference. Take the opportunities that you can to ride these bikes, be responsible with your choice and on the streets, and have fun with it.



Or get a Panigale. Those things are so sexy.

[KawiKid860]

I think just because hes crashed 3 times doesn't mean hes a bad rider. I've been riding about 11.5k miles and had 1-2 crashes. One was where my bike popped out of neutral on its own in the middle of a rev (was just enjoying its sound) and I ended up being thrown into a wall with it. Dunno how it came out of neutral on its own but now I don't really trust neutral lol. 2nd time was my mistake of setting myself up to go straight through a roundabout out of habit but I actually wanted to go 3/4 of the way through and out the left side, so I pushed the bike into too much of a lean with an inexperienced passenger and I felt my peg scrape then immediately after that I lowsided. Not 100% how that all played out but I'll take the blame for that one. But my point is he knows pretty well what he can and can't do, he just didn't learn the best way lol. No offense. I'd say a 600 will be plenty, my 500 is barely different in terms of acceleration and braking with a passenger compared to solo so with double the power and an extra 10 ft/lb of torque a 600 will be plenty.

[psych0hans]

F**K them all... GO mid ways and buy an 848/750

[nycsteve]

Originally Posted by Gurk

OP: Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. Some of them have crashed their bikes just as many times (if not more) as you did. Some of them did this with no gear. Some of them don't ride responsibly on the street. Take my word for it. But I won't point fingers....

People on this forum tend to feel like a support group at times. They think it's ridiculous to buy anything larger than a 250 and there's no need. Well, I don't believe in "NEED". No one here NEEDS a bike. Hell you don't need a car why not just use public transportation.


Now... There's people also just looking out for you here. Which is good. Nobody will sway your opinion. If you're dead set on a 1000cc, get it. But be responsible. No body who have posted on this thread so far (me included) don't use their bikes to the full potential. Hell, most don't use their 250 to their full potential. Which is ok.

At the end of the day, after 21k experience, if you believe you can ride responsibly, CC's don't matter. People forget that there's always option to not twist the throttle the whole friggin way. Not many have the restraint, well, that's on YOU.

So get whatever you want. We can't tell you you don't deserve it or you won't be fine.


If you were buying it for track use only though, I would definitely suggest 600cc. Hell if I did it all over again, maybe I would even keep my 250 for track. There's a good chance I won't ever use my r6 to its full potential.

Street, you don't have to use ANYTHING to its full potential. 250, 600, 1000.

So get whatever you want!


Peace.

Best post on here.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by krolinked

I love the way the R6 is described, but is the powerband really that insane?

It's torque feels like it hits the ground in huge bursts. Be in the right rpm at the right spot on the track with sloppy clutch work and the front wheel will leave the ground at 130mph. Yea.... it's that insanely peaky.

[ninjaone]

This thread is a good example of why it's so hard to ask advice online about motorcycles, especially about a 1000 supersport on a 250 forum. You have a bunch of keyboard nerds whose entire understanding of a 1000 supersport is based on dyno graphs, 1/4 mile 0-60 top speed in first gear performance numbers, magazine testing, and "internet research" and these are the people attempting to give advice about what the motorcycle is like to live with and which one you should actually own.

It takes about 5 minutes of seat time to understand the difference between a 600 powerband and a 1000 powerband on the street and how a 1000 can be easier to ride then a 600. There is a really really easy solution here. Go to a motorcycle shop and take a demo ride. Near Los Angeles - Pro Italia is demoing both the RSV4 and the 848, which both have good representations of the comparible power bands - http://www.proitalia.com/

All the words typed in this thread are worthless to you actually experiencing both types of power bands on the street and making your own decision. My only point is plenty of people make the decision to commute and daily ride on a 1000 because the power band is easier and more predictable to access during street riding from pretty much any gear. There are no peaky temperamental throttle surprises and you don't need to concentrate half your energy on knowing your revs like on a 600. Combined with the fact that supersport 1000s tend to have traction control and reduced power maps, and a 1000 can be quite accessible to a beginner with 20k miles of practice on a 250. Then again, some people love the peaky nature of 600s and consider them more fun then 1000s.

There's a lot of people who just don't know what they're talking about on the internet, especially when it comes to "big scary things" like a 1000.

[Cazper]

I too suggest getting on the different bikes and riding them for yourself. I've been to 3 different demo day rides and before going I was set on upgrading to a 600 because everyone insists that it is the natural upgrade. I personally am a Kawi fan due to their quality build so I was determined to stay green.

After riding the ZX-6R for 30-40 minutes I knew this was not the bike for me. I'm 6'2" and after even that amount of time my knees were killing me. I then rode the ZX-10R and basically fell in love with it... it "fit" my frame much better.

However, after talking with the individuals putting on the demo day and telling them one of the big reasons for upgrading was due to 2up riding they suggested the ZX-14. I initially thought they were crazy... there is no way I'm going from a 250 to the 14. But, because it wasn't my bike I figured... what the hell... I'll give it a whirl!!

I am now completely, utterly sold on the ZX-14! Rides like a Cadillac... useable power in any gear... way more comfortable than any SS... and finally perfect for 2up riding. When I get my tax return back in Feb... I'll be riding a ZX-14 and keeping my 250R just for fun

My point for this long post of rambling... get to a demo day event. You'll figure it out for yourself!!!

[psych0hans]

Honestly, I think the jap liter bikes come so close in performance, it just boils down to the buyers personal choice. Just buy what you feel most comfortable riding would be the best advise anyone can give you. What that means is attend every demo day you can and beg/borrow/steal friends bikes to give you an idea... Be super careful tho, coz you don't wanna damage either you or the bike good luck making a choice... And when you do...

[ninjaone]

Good point about the ZX14 too. It's kind of odd to me how many people make fun of bikes like the ZX14 and the Hayabusa without trying them. These are extremely comfortable motorcycles almost perfectly designed for comfortable two up riding. Stable on the highway, relaxed ergos, comfortable seat. Considering the original requirements I think they'd be almost perfect for the intended use.

Not sure where the idea came from that the only reason to own a ZX14 or Hayabusa was because you were interested in going 190 MPH or lived at the drag strip. Just goes to show you how really a lot of people have no idea what they are talking about.

[psych0hans]

I would love to own a hayabusa to be honest... Just can't afford it... Lol

[R1Chronicles]

My input, depending what type of riding your doing and how deep your pocket book is.

If your doing mostly long rides get a bigger bike, it doesn't rev as high at cruising speed and nice having the power to pass a line of cars with a few seconds less time. If your mostly in city get a smaller bike.

PS. I wouldn't suggest long rides 2 up with a SS.

[namdamyo]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Triumph Rocket III 2300cc I3 is the biggest production bike available... it's more like the bike version of a muscle car

I know Boss Hoss made a 8230cc bike... and their current lineup has a 6200cc engine. I think this is quite literally the bike version of a muscle car, as they use an LS3 v8.

I've seen one in person, and I think they look funny. Sounds freakin' sweet though!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by krolinked

...is the powerband really that insane? I've no idea because The 10r i rode really didn't have much of a power band or i didn't notice it. Or i wasn't WOT

Yeah, you just weren't WOT at 10k+ rpm... a 600 WOT at 8k+ is enough to make your neck strain, and my reference point is a '97 CBR600 long term and a demo day on a ZX6R. They give you tunnel vision.

Yes, the powerband really is quite impressive; lots of fun, but it's also potentially overwhelming. Go to a demo day or something and test ride a bike to see if you like them. Then see about getting a test ride from a dealership or something so you can get out and see how it handles and take it for a little longer ride etc.

The 250 requires the same skills as every other motorcycle on the market, maybe without as much of the aspect of self-control. If you can competently ride a 250, you can ride anything. Now, riding it at the limit is a different story. Obviously you've learned your limits through experience; we've all had a corner or two that left a load in our pants, but luckily we don't always go down when that happens. Keep your riding in check on a larger bike and you'll be fine. I suggest going to the track, where you can push and learn and have fun without all the potential consequences of pushing on the street.

Are you gung-ho on an inline 4 or is a Ducati 848 an option? That makes roughly the same power as a 600 (I think?) but is a twin.

[bdavison]

I wouldn't call it insane, however it can be a surprise if you dont know its there. And most of the time new riders that hop on one have no idea what its going to do.

The R6 is fun on the open road like highways and such where you can really take advantage of its gearing. It can be kinda annoying in city traffic though, but its not unmanageable. Some of the other 600's are geared in a more "useful" way.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by R1Chronicles

PS. I wouldn't suggest long rides 2 up with a SS.

If the rear seat of the ninjette is anything to go by, your passenger will NOT be comfortable on an SS... Maybe the ZX14, But definitely not on any 600/1000 i know... Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Even as per keith code, most SS bikes are designed for one person, the rear seat is mostly an after thought... Not talking about the older bikes with banana type seats, talking about the newer ones with split seats...

[krolinked]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Yeah, you just weren't WOT at 10k+ rpm... a 600 WOT at 8k+ is enough to make your neck strain, and my reference point is a '97 CBR600 long term and a demo day on a ZX6R. They give you tunnel vision.

Yes, the powerband really is quite impressive; lots of fun, but it's also potentially overwhelming. Go to a demo day or something and test ride a bike to see if you like them. Then see about getting a test ride from a dealership or something so you can get out and see how it handles and take it for a little longer ride etc.

The 250 requires the same skills as every other motorcycle on the market, maybe without as much of the aspect of self-control. If you can competently ride a 250, you can ride anything. Now, riding it at the limit is a different story. Obviously you've learned your limits through experience; we've all had a corner or two that left a load in our pants, but luckily we don't always go down when that happens. Keep your riding in check on a larger bike and you'll be fine. I suggest going to the track, where you can push and learn and have fun without all the potential consequences of pushing on the street.

Are you gung-ho on an inline 4 or is a Ducati 848 an option? That makes roughly the same power as a 600 (I think?) but is a twin.

I would love an 848, but quite frankly I am scared of the maintainence. I heard its very often and very pricey.

[gt_turbo]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

I'd say 1000 supersport bikes are more for beginners then 600 supersport bikes but that's probably a very minority opinion. 1000 supersport bikes have a great power band for the road, they have torque everywhere and and a very "usable" type characteristic to them. 600s are peaky, temperamental, and the dual personality of the engine makes them more tricky to navigate in corners. After 22k miles on a 250 I'm sure you have the throttle control down to handle either but the 600 would be more likely to take you by surprise in a corner if you aren't paying attention to the revs.

I don't know why people are so obsessed about the top speed of first gear. How often do you really red line first? Either 600SS or 1000SS are happy to loaf along the highway in 6th gear, the difference is in a 1000SS you can just twist to go, and on a 600 you might need to downshift. If you want to have fun on the roads you'll need to dip into the upper power band in the 600 but on the 1000 you can just twist from basically anywhere. That's why a lot of people prefer commuting on a 1000 - more usable and predictable power band.

A lot of modern 1000 supersports have traction control and ride by wire throttle maps which can actually reduce power as you are getting used to the bike too.

+1 i've said this before on here, but some ppl tend to think a liter bike from a 250 = instant death. if you gonna get a liter bike, get the best one on the market - S1000RR. i demoed one at a bmw demo event. F****** AMAZING - plenty of power, great looks, easy to ride for the street, comfortable, light, technologically advanced, and just damn fun! if was looking for a liter it'd be either a zx10r or s1000rr.

+1 on also demoing each bike that you are considering and just go for it. sounds like you have more than enough seat time and learned from your mistakes already. don't listen to these haters saying you crashed "3" times already and you have no business getting on a 1000. falling is a part of riding, you just get back up and keep going.

[Jiggles]

I think instead of people getting a 1000 or 600 because that's what everyone else does, you guys should ask yourselves what do you want out of a bike? What does a 1000 offer to you that a 600 does not?

My 650 had a ton of power, more than enough for anyone to ride comfortably on the street and blow away even million dollar cars, so why did I trade it for the 1000? Well it sure as **** was not for the power. I wanted a bike that was comfortable for commuting, capable of long trips (side cases) and looked sexy as ****. The ninja 1000 fit the bill much better than the 650 so I got it. This bike has more power than I will ever be able to use on the street or in the twisties. Its entirely unnecessary to ever go WOT even in 6th (the 650 I would sometimes go WOT if I was in the cruising gears)

If you sit back and say "What DO I want out of my next bike?" Rather than the coolest most fastest ultra acceleratiest bike, I think you will be happy with your purchase for a lot longer. That bike may very well be a 1000 supersport, but pick it for the right reasons and not because ZOMG LITER BIKES ARE SO COOL

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

What does a 1000 offer to you that a 600 does not?

That bike may very well be a 1000 supersport, but pick it for the right reasons and not because ZOMG LITER BIKES ARE SO COOL

The 1000 has the torque to just cruise at lower RPM (which makes it quieter).

It's not that liter bikes are so cool, it's because I'm so cool.

I find riding a liter bike is the best, most comfortable, most fun bike for me (the cool guy).

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

I don't know why people are so obsessed about the top speed of first gear. How often do you really red line first?

This falls in the "n00b throttle control" area. If you are a complete n00b, how "accidentally" fast can you go in first again????? and at what rate will I be accelerating??? Umm, it's one of the main reasons 250's are recommended starter bikes.

[Gurk]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I think instead of people getting a 1000 or 600 because that's what everyone else does, you guys should ask yourselves what do you want out of a bike? What does a 1000 offer to you that a 600 does not?

My 650 had a ton of power, more than enough for anyone to ride comfortably on the street and blow away even million dollar cars, so why did I trade it for the 1000? Well it sure as **** was not for the power. I wanted a bike that was comfortable for commuting, capable of long trips (side cases) and looked sexy as ****. The ninja 1000 fit the bill much better than the 650 so I got it. This bike has more power than I will ever be able to use on the street or in the twisties. Its entirely unnecessary to ever go WOT even in 6th (the 650 I would sometimes go WOT if I was in the cruising gears)

If you sit back and say "What DO I want out of my next bike?" Rather than the coolest most fastest ultra acceleratiest bike, I think you will be happy with your purchase for a lot longer. That bike may very well be a 1000 supersport, but pick it for the right reasons and not because ZOMG LITER BIKES ARE SO COOL

do you buy everything you buy just cause they serve a certain purpose? You have never owned anything out of pure passion for it although on paper it doesn't make sense?

Why do we even choose different brands? Shouldn't we all sit down and look at the numbers that bikes produce or the amount of features they have and all make the same choice then?

What if I buy 1000cc because I like the way it f*cking looks. I don't have to justify my purchase to anybody. If I'm not experienced enough or responsible enough, it's on me. But if I think I can handle it and ride it mellow on the street, I don't give a flying f*ck about what anyone says.

[Gurk]

"Hey look at that retard who bought a pencil. He can't even draw a masterpiece and use it to its full potential. What a wanna be showoff."

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Gurk

do you buy everything you buy just cause they serve a certain purpose? You have never owned anything out of pure passion for it although on paper it doesn't make sense?

Why do we even choose different brands? Shouldn't we all sit down and look at the numbers that bikes produce or the amount of features they have and all make the same choice then?

What if I buy 1000cc because I like the way it f*cking looks. I don't have to justify my purchase to anybody. If I'm not experienced enough or responsible enough, it's on me. But if I think I can handle it and ride it mellow on the street, I don't give a flying f*ck about what anyone says.

Damn calm down buddy. All I'm saying is make a decision based on something other than just CCs. Alot of peoople get caught up in defining a motorcycle by its engine, AFAIK it has a few other parts as well. OP afterall thinks a 600 is a baby step

[choneofakind]

Heck, I'm barely mature enough for a 250

[Gurk]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Damn calm down buddy. All I'm saying is make a decision based on something other than just CCs. Alot of peoople get caught up in defining a motorcycle by its engine, AFAIK it has a few other parts as well. OP afterall thinks a 600 is a baby step

Like I said, it's on him to decide what's too powerful for him or what suits him. If someone's into supersports or superbikes you're not gonna convince them to get a sv650. Hell I wasn't ready for a 600. But when I decided to buy my r6, no one on earth could make me buy an sv650 or ninja 600 or FZ6r or anything like that. I plain don't like those bikes. Have 0 passion for them.

People suggest sv650 like it's the same type of bike but mellower. It's not. If you like supersports, you like supersports. Whether it suits your or not.

I'm just being honest.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Gurk

Like I said, it's on him to decide what's too powerful for him or what suits him. If someone's into supersports or superbikes you're not gonna convince them to get a sv650. Hell I wasn't ready for a 600. But when I decided to buy my r6, no one on earth could make me buy an sv650 or ninja 600 or FZ6r or anything like that. I plain don't like those bikes. Have 0 passion for them.

People suggest sv650 like it's the same type of bike but mellower. It's not. If you like supersports, you like supersports. Whether it suits your or not.

I'm just being honest.

zomg, you bought a bike using my exact advice!

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Gurk

do you buy everything you buy just cause they serve a certain purpose? You have never owned anything out of pure passion for it although on paper it doesn't make sense?

Why do we even choose different brands? Shouldn't we all sit down and look at the numbers that bikes produce or the amount of features they have and all make the same choice then?

What if I buy 1000cc because I like the way it f*cking looks. I don't have to justify my purchase to anybody. If I'm not experienced enough or responsible enough, it's on me. But if I think I can handle it and ride it mellow on the street, I don't give a flying f*ck about what anyone says.

So what you are saying is, What you want out of a bike is great looks? That your purpose is: to have a bike that looks great. Great way to agree with the jigglet.

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by csmith12

This falls in the "n00b throttle control" area. If you are a complete n00b, how "accidentally" fast can you go in first again????? and at what rate will I be accelerating??? Umm, it's one of the main reasons 250's are recommended starter bikes.

That's not exactly how the argument seems to be framed. People seem to suggest that because a 1000 can go almost 100mph in first gear, by the time you hit 3rd gear on the road you must be doing 150 - as if anyone rides around like that. These people are obviously keyboard jockeys who have never actually ridden this type of bike - 600 and 1000 supersports do just fine loafing along the highway in 6th gear at legal speeds.

And I agree, 250s are better starter bikes then 600s or 1000s, but after 20k miles on a 250 which one do you jump to? 600 or 1000? In my personal opinion I think 1000s which have more predictable power are easier to adapt to then a 600 with a peaky power band.