Florida Forces all Riders under 21 to have Under 21 plates

[n4mwd]

Florida requires all motorcycle owners under the age of 21 to have a special license tag that reads "Under 21". This applies only to bikers and not to car owners.



I was wondering what other people thought about this. To me, it seems like clear discrimination - not only by age, but also by the type of motor vehicle.

Some people say that its a tool used by cops to pick on younger riders. When a rider is all geared up, its not always that easy to tell how old he is.

Just curious what others think about this.

[HKr1]

That plate makes me chuckle....

But, doesn't it have something to do with the helmet law too?
21 and over with medical insurance can ride without????

[lgk]

i think its a terrible idea.
if you think cops will pick on younger riders, regular people are worse.

[areifel]

Originally Posted by HKr1

That plate makes me chuckle....

But, doesn't it have something to do with the helmet law too?
21 and over with medical insurance can ride without????

Correct. You need $10,000 minimum in medical insurance.

[lgk]

i think both the law and the plates suck.

they should know that the medical bill of a person with a head injury will exceed 10k easy.

[n4mwd]

Its not officially linked to the helmet law, but I think its reasonable to conclude that it is.

If a cop sees a young guy on a bike without a helmet, he is not allowed to stop him (primary violation) to ask him if he is under 21. But he is allowed to stop someone on an "under 21" bike without a helmet because the bike is owned by someone under 21 and riders under 21 are required to have helmets.

But at the same time, a cop is not allowed to stop an obviously older rider without a helmet and ask him if he has medical insurance.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

...........But at the same time, a cop is not allowed to stop an obviously older rider without a helmet and ask him if he has medical insurance.

Very true !!!

And that comes from the wrong preconception that the older rider rides safer than the crazy youngster, which is not always true.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Motofool

And that comes from the wrong preconception that the older rider rides safer than the crazy youngster, which is not always true.

Have you been following me again?

EDIT: I was watching motorcycle racing yesterday and those guys were handling themselves really well on the track at speeds way over 100 mph. I didn't see a single old fart among the riders. But then again, while they may be masters of the machine, they might not be as good at riding in traffic. Older riders can usually claim some form of increased experience. But it might not be on a bike, it might be just driving in general. But younger riders have better reflexes. They can turn the bars or hit the brakes, or the gas, faster to get out of a bad situation.

[ChickenRun]

I don't like it. What I don't like is it makes me feel like a kid, and every time I meet a new rider they ask "You're under 21? I didn't know until I saw your plate."

And the "because of the helmet law" argument doesn't make sense since there arn't special "under 18" plates on cars with drivers that are under 18.

[fishdip]

Fl is full of retards they just need to make it so you can ride with no helmet no mater your age.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ChickenRun

I don't like it. What I don't like is it makes me feel like a kid, and every time I meet a new rider they ask "You're under 21? I didn't know until I saw your plate."

And the "because of the helmet law" argument doesn't make sense since there arn't special "under 18" plates on cars with drivers that are under 18.

Have you experienced increased attention by the cops?

[Panda]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Have you been following me again?

EDIT: I was watching motorcycle racing yesterday and those guys were handling themselves really well on the track at speeds way over 100 mph. I didn't see a single old fart among the riders. But then again, while they may be masters of the machine, they might not be as good at riding in traffic. Older riders can usually claim some form of increased experience. But it might not be on a bike, it might be just driving in general. But younger riders have better reflexes. They can turn the bars or hit the brakes, or the gas, faster to get out of a bad situation.

Max biaggi disagrees with you.

[Joshorilla]

Well if the law states under 21's need to wear a helmet this seems like a great way to enforce the law, and after all, no sane person could argue it's a bad law other than stating it should be everyone requires a helmet.

Lots of countries enforce identification of younger riders, you know why? They're more likely to cause danger! Being a "learner rider" I need a 1ft square L in red on white one by bike for a year until I take my full test, a tiny bit of writing on your plate is nothing.

I think the laws some states have with young people driving not being allowed passengers or driving after kerfew is really stupid though, you could legitimatly need transport for work or need to car pool etc.


Identification != descrimination. In this case.

[ChickenRun]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Have you experienced increased attention by the cops?

Not a single cop has pulled me over since I got the bike back in March, but I have been passed on the right side while in the right lane by a gixxer squid. I feel like I get no respect once other riders notice I'm "not old enough", even though I'm probably more safe to ride with than them. But of course those who are over 21 will see no problem with the plate.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Lots of countries enforce identification of younger riders, you know why? They're more likely to cause danger! Being a "learner rider" I need a 1ft square L in red on white one by bike for a year until I take my full test, a tiny bit of writing on your plate is nothing.
...
Identification != descrimination. In this case.

But a "learner" permit or sticker is not the same as an "under 21" tag. A 95 year old can be a new rider too.

My point, an experienced rider at any age, even 16, is a better rider than an older rider who just started riding last week. In FL, you have to be 15 to get a learner's permit. But there is no maximum age.

But limiting it to proficient riders, I agree with Motofool that the younger riders are not always the ones taking chances and causing trouble. Even if it turns out that a high percentage do cause trouble, to lump all younger riders into the same category is profiling.

[Joshorilla]

Requiring everyone who is required by law to wear a helmet to have a system where the authorities can identify that person has to be wearing a helmet isn't profiling, it's implementimg a method of identification for the sake of allowing the enforcement of a logic and sensable law.

Besides, it's not profilng as "young driver" isn't a profile, everyone is young once so this applies to 100% of people, aka EVERYONE, so having a law applies to everyone isn't descriminatory, it's a transitional identification system based upon a law that allows identification and enforcement of a life saving system and the identification of a statistically proven group of people (white, black, female, asian etc) so, 100% of everyone again so not descrimatory whom are at higher risk to themselves and others.

So your argument for a lerners permit being applicable to everyone is no more valid than saying this system applies to everyone, as everyone is young once, and everyone is a learner once, the only difference is if you choose not to have an under 21 sticker, you have the choice to not ride under 21, thus making the 21 badge an opt out system, the lerarner permit you can't opt out of!

[choneofakind]

Interesting idea from the FL gov't. Not sure I like it. People disrespect young drivers enough; whenever an 'adult' has an accident with someone who appears to be 20 or less, it's always the 'kid' who is to blame. obviously Can't they just stick with what most states do, which is put an 'under 21 until xx-xx-xxxx' marker on your driver's license?

As the 'kid' in all these scenario's, I don't like it. People rethink their actions with me when they realize that I'm older than I look, I stand up for myself in a confrontation with an 'adult', and one of my parents is an (patent) attorney. But they always come out swinging (figuratively) because I look so young.

[Trubin]

If I were in their shoes and If I could have my own letters I would put:

FLORIDA
4SLUTS
UNDER 21

But cmn. I'm sure we all remember the Virginia plate of "EAT THE kids first"

Edit:
You know what I'm ordering it:

[CC Cowboy]

I live in Florida and think the plate is great. We also need a plate for over 65 and on medication.

[ai4px]

So.... I own three motorcycles and let my teen son or daughter ride any one of my bikes. What does this law accomplish? Or my son owns a bike and I ride it with no helmet. The law is about the driver/rider not the vehicle. Nuts.

[This Girl Rides]

I live in FL, I personally see nothing wrong with the plate.

I can also say i'm very against the no helmet law,
I feel EVERY person should have to ride in a helmet at the least.

I am only 21 (turn 22 in december) and I can tell you first hand that MOST motorcycle riders under 21 around here drive like complete asshole squids. SO maybe this little plate will make them think twice about driving like a jerk? If so, accomplish made.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by This Girl Rides

SO maybe this little plate will make them think twice about driving like a jerk?

Doubtful.

The fact that they don't care about breaking laws and endangering themselves as well as others unnecessarily doesn't seem to make them ride any safer.

[Aggrotech]

this law is retarded. yet another useless law our government is trying/going to pass for no good reason, other than to waste tax dollars.

instead of doing something ridiculous like this, why not put something in the paint they use on the roads so we dont slip and slide everywhere.

the us government fails. so incredibly hard, its quite pathetic.

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

this law is retarded. yet another useless law our government is trying/going to pass for no good reason, other than to waste tax dollars.

instead of doing something ridiculous like this, why not put something in the paint they use on the roads so we dont slip and slide everywhere.

the us government fails. so incredibly hard, its quite pathetic.

As far as governments go, they aint that bad.

Think of it this way, how much of a first world problem is worrying about the friction coefficient in the paint they use to mark roads, a lot of people would settle for clean drinking water or the chance to have a democratic vote or even a road at all.

Basically, no, the government doesn't fail so incredibly hard to the point it's pathetic because they buy the cheap paint, because if they were to ask for more road tax or whatever tax your road maintenance comes out of nobody would pay higher tax's and slate the government for asking for more money.

Be thankful you are not in north korea, you say anything about their government and you'll disapear in the back of a van at night.

[Liquidtoon]

Originally Posted by This Girl Rides

I live in FL, I personally see nothing wrong with the plate.

I can also say i'm very against the no helmet law,
I feel EVERY person should have to ride in a helmet at the least.

I am only 21 (turn 22 in december) and I can tell you first hand that MOST motorcycle riders under 21 around here drive like complete asshole squids. SO maybe this little plate will make them think twice about driving like a jerk? If so, accomplish made.

I fully disagree with everything in this post for the following reasons.
I think helmet, and seat belt, laws are unlawful. It is my body and my right to protect it the way I see fit.

Singling any group out based on age, sex, race, gender, ect. is unacceptable. I feel there should be lic plates for "female driver" or "Asian women" ooh how about "elderly". There is no reason any age requirement should be on a helmet law. A senior knocking "ride a hog" off his bucket list doesn't need a helmet but some of the young professional riders do? makes no sense.

And the 10k medical rule is plan dumb, first off 10k doesn't begin to cover a overnight stay anymore let alone any surgeries. Plus it is a practically unenforceable law.

How about a simpler system lets stop funding treatment for people who choose to ignore safety warnings.

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Be thankful you are not in north korea, you say anything about their government and you'll disapear in the back of a van at night.

uhh..what do you think the our government is trying to do to snowden?

he isnt a terrorist, he isnt a traitor, he isnt aiding the "enemy". he isnt helping china, or russia. the government is going to decimate him if they ever catch him. and what happend to that kid who made a joke to his friend regarding eating a bunch of kids beating hearts? they threw him in jail, he got treated so badly he wants to kill himself. I could go on..but this topic could go on for ever.

pretty kewl government id say yo. It's also ridiculous to compare 1st world issues to 3rd world issues.

[LittleRedNinjette]

In NJ they make kids put a red decal on the plates. I think both are a BAD idea!
We have dubbed the decal the "rape sticker". It just makes it eraser for younger people to become targets for both cops and pedafials.

I do feel that these kind of things unfairly label kids. Just become your young DOES NOT mean that you are a criminal. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Whats next?

[Trubin]

As time passes the states will push for regulating motorcycle registration and restricting riders, much like gun laws are now. And with the way things are headed, it wouldn't surprise me if in 50 years motorcycles would be completely outlawed.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Trubin

As time passes the states will push for regulating motorcycle registration and restricting riders, much like gun laws are now. And with the way things are headed, it wouldn't surprise me if in 50 years motorcycles would be completely outlawed.

If you are even able to operate a car your self.

[xorbe]

Let dad take the bike out, and troll the cops without a helmet ...

[Liquidtoon]

Originally Posted by fishdip

If you are even able to operate a car your self.

This is the only logical end to the safety issue and a eventual inevitability but I doubt it will be in our life time maybe my kids possibly grand kids. Considering Fed has asked states to prevent self driving vehicles to be on the roads for now.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Liquidtoon

This is the only logical end to the safety issue and a eventual inevitability but I doubt it will be in our life time maybe my kids possibly grand kids.

Lets hope so

[n4mwd]

It seems that if "under 21" doesn't discriminate, then "over 65" wouldn't discriminate either.

If you are in Florida, you may remember the 40+ year old guy over in Tampa a year or two ago who was an alpha male type that decided to buy a motorcycle. He bought a ZX-14 with cash. A motorcycle endorsement is only required to ride a bike not to purchase it (Bad idea, but that's another story) and he didn't have one and had never ridden a motorcycle before.

Well, as you might guess, about a week after he bought the bike he was taking a curve too fast for his skill level and ground himself down into a guard rail. He wasn't wearing a helmet, but when you've been ground into hundreds of little pieces dangling off a guard rail, a helmet is a moot point.

Now compare that guy to an average 16 year old who's been riding for a year and just got his full motorcycle license. I'm thinking the 16 year old would have made the curve just fine. At the very least, the 16 year old is more likely to know his skill limits because he's been riding for a year.

Now I wouldn't be opposed to a "learner" sticker or something like that as long as it applied to every new rider equally and irregardless of age or how many years they have been driving a car.

[KawiKid860]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

long quote of good points

^ all of this

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Trubin

As time passes the states will push for regulating motorcycle registration and restricting riders, much like gun laws are now. And with the way things are headed, it wouldn't surprise me if in 50 years motorcycles would be completely outlawed.

Is it due to people having less morality and courage, or a lack of personal responsibility?

[LittleRedNinjette]

I would say it is a facter. A big one.

[ForceofWill]

While age is not a Federally protected class, this law is just BS. Helmet laws are also BS, we all know why.

It will probably pass in FL though, they already have 55+ communities legal there.

[ChaoSS]

I think it is legitimate to "discriminate" against certain groups, but if you are going to age you should also do experience.

And the license plate thing is stupid. If someone on a bike is going to do something stupid, you aren't going to notice his license plate first. It would be a better idea to do like many other countries do and restrict the size of the motor or the horsepower of the bike until you have a certain level of experience/are a certain age. Would also cut down on the idiots going out and buying the big cruisers that are hard to manage just as much as the big over powered sport bikes. Putting those things on there is just stupid, make laws that make sense.

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

uhh..what do you think the our government is trying to do to snowden?

he isnt a terrorist, he isnt a traitor, he isnt aiding the "enemy". he isnt helping china, or russia. the government is going to decimate him if they ever catch him. and what happend to that kid who made a joke to his friend regarding eating a bunch of kids beating hearts? they threw him in jail, he got treated so badly he wants to kill himself. I could go on..but this topic could go on for ever.

pretty kewl government id say yo. It's also ridiculous to compare 1st world issues to 3rd world issues.

^This.

But also, my ancestors put a lot of work into creating the society that we have today, and if they could see us getting apathetic about things because the third world has it worse, they would come back from the dead to bitch slap the hell out of us. The fact that others have it worse is no excuse to not fight government corruption, to work to make our lives better,etc.

We can make our world better. Our ancestors did it, and we don't live in a perfect world, which means it can be made better, but it will never happen when people mock things as "first world problems". Jokes are one thing, but reality is that we do have first world problems that we do need to work to change.

[Panda]

Until people that dont wear helmets pay higher insurance rates and people that do wear helmets don't have to pay higher rates then helmet laws a great.

And for people that think seat belt laws are unconstitutional I am curious to learn what part of the constitution you are using for your argument.

[Runeknight95]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Its not officially linked to the helmet law, but I think its reasonable to conclude that it is.

If a cop sees a young guy on a bike without a helmet, he is not allowed to stop him (primary violation) to ask him if he is under 21. But he is allowed to stop someone on an "under 21" bike without a helmet because the bike is owned by someone under 21 and riders under 21 are required to have helmets.

But at the same time, a cop is not allowed to stop an obviously older rider without a helmet and ask him if he has medical insurance.

Says who? a cop can stop you for anything and make sure you're following the rules

Originally Posted by ChickenRun

I don't like it. What I don't like is it makes me feel like a kid, and every time I meet a new rider they ask "You're under 21? I didn't know until I saw your plate."

And the "because of the helmet law" argument doesn't make sense since there arn't special "under 18" plates on cars with drivers that are under 18.

It does make sense and it is the reason. Just because it doesn't exist maybe it should, if you're 16 you're not allowed to be out past a certain time etc so if a cop saw a car with an 18 under plate driving around at 3 am, but in reality most cars driven by 16 year olds are owned by older adults.

Originally Posted by fishdip

Fl is full of retards they just need to make it so you can ride with no helmet no mater your age.

Sorry we are smarter than you and want to get rid of the helmet-less knuckle heads increasing our insurance or causing extra hospital bills sent to taxpayers.

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I live in Florida and think the plate is great. We also need a plate for over 65 and on medication.

True story

Originally Posted by ai4px

So.... I own three motorcycles and let my teen son or daughter ride any one of my bikes. What does this law accomplish? Or my son owns a bike and I ride it with no helmet. The law is about the driver/rider not the vehicle. Nuts.

No you'd get pulled over and go here's my license oh you're over 21 have a nice day see ya. Durrrrrrr!
If your son was on your bike riding without a helmet, and got pulled over for something else and didn't have his helmet on, they'd know then.
So yes it would be an inconvenience but you wouldn't get in trouble.