Tire Upgrades

[shandu]

Hey, my first post here after reading for a while. I was considering getting some Michelin Pilot Powers, front and rear on my 08 250. On stock tires and sizes currently.

Front stock is 110/70ZR17 and a common upgrade is 120/70 that I see. It seems the diameter is raised considerably, whereas a 120/65 would be about 10% wider, while maintaining a closer diameter. Is there any pros or cons that I may be missing?

Rear stock is 130/70ZR17 and the common upgrade I've been seeing is 150/60. This seems like the most rational choice for myself as it is about 15% wider while also maintaining a similar diameter. Again, any pros or cons I may be missing?

[csmith12]

Welcome Jeremy!

[Viskoner]

I also just did tons of research into upgrading tires and I went with the Michelin Pilot Power Road 4s

After reading a ton of info on what size to upgrade to I went with 120/60/17 in the front and 160/60/17 in the rear and let me tell you I love it. Turning and cornering feels so easy and I personally don't feel like I have lost a single thread of flickability from the stock sizes. I have been ridding on stock tires for 3 years and wish I had of upgraded a long time ago.

I feel glued to the ground, The bike dives into corners and stays there, I don't feel as many bumps in the road and no longer get stuck in tar snakes.

I cannot stress how much I love how easy the bike takes a turn and holds it with ease. I am easily able to take corners at least 10 to 15km/hr faster and feel like I don't have to work nearly as hard as I did with the stock tires.

I also noticed that it doesn't skip when going on and off on ramps over the metal temperature strips like it did with the stock tires. That was so scary to me.... taking a corner then hitting a bump and all of a sudden it feels like the bike has jumped out of the turn and closer to the side rail of the road.

As far as speed goes I actually don't notice anything off of acceleration but I did gain overall due to the larger tire size my speedometer is off by about 5 to 10km/hr. I tested this by having my friend ride @ 60km/hr and tried to match him but when I got to 60km/h I was a good bike length and a half ahead of him.

Hope that helps and oh yeah the bike looks dope with the new tires I am waiting for a nice day up here to clean it then I will post picks of my ninjette with everything I have done to it

[shandu]

Originally Posted by Viskoner

I also just did tons of research into upgrading tires and I went with the Michelin Pilot Power Road 4s

After reading a ton of info on what size to upgrade to I went with 120/60/17 in the front and 160/60/17 in the rear and let me tell you I love it. Turning and cornering feels so easy and I personally don't feel like I have lost a single thread of flickability from the stock sizes. I have been ridding on stock tires for 3 years and wish I had of upgraded a long time ago.

I feel glued to the ground, The bike dives into corners and stays there, I don't feel as many bumps in the road and no longer get stuck in tar snakes.

I cannot stress how much I love how easy the bike takes a turn and holds it with ease. I am easily able to take corners at least 10 to 15km/hr faster and feel like I don't have to work nearly as hard as I did with the stock tires.

I also noticed that it doesn't skip when going on and off on ramps over the metal temperature strips like it did with the stock tires. That was so scary to me.... taking a corner then hitting a bump and all of a sudden it feels like the bike has jumped out of the turn and closer to the side rail of the road.

As far as speed goes I actually don't notice anything off of acceleration but I did gain overall due to the larger tire size my speedometer is off by about 5 to 10km/hr. I tested this by having my friend ride @ 60km/hr and tried to match him but when I got to 60km/h I was a good bike length and a half ahead of him.

Hope that helps and oh yeah the bike looks dope with the new tires I am waiting for a nice day up here to clean it then I will post picks of my ninjette with everything I have done to it

With your 120/60 front, did you have to do any modifications to get it to fit?

And with the rear, why did you go with 160/60 instead of 150/60? Does it seem fine fitment wise? Were you to ride two-up will there be too much flex and hit the swingarm/chain?

[Viskoner]

I did not have to do any mods to get either to fit...can't speak for two up haven't tried yet. I went with 160 instead of 150 because one of the guys on here did and I wanted to go as big as I could. He said that he had to remove the chain guard but mine still fit with tons of clearance.

Hope that helps

[Somchai]

Please take note when upgrading tires that each tire has a standard rim where it fits best and which is the recommended one (marked bold) while there are still others where it would fit also:

110/70 ---> 2.75 - 3.00 - 3.50
120/70 ---> 3.00 - 3.50 - 3.75
130/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00
140/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00 - 4.50
150/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00 - 4.50

120/60 ---> 3.00 - 3.50 - 3.75
150/60 ---> 4.00 - 4.50
160/60 ---> 4.25 - 4.50 - 5.00

The oem-rims from the Ninja 250 are 2.75 front and 3.50 rear while the Ninja 300 got a 4.00 in the rear.

[Hero Danny]

I've literally never heard of any positive reviews of bigger tires on these small bikes. I'm glad it's been working out well for you, post up some pics, I wanna see that back tire on the little bike

[shandu]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Please take note when upgrading tires that each tire has a standard rim where it fits best and which is the recommended one (marked bold) while there are still others where it would fit also:

110/70 ---> 2.75 - 3.00 - 3.50
120/70 ---> 3.00 - 3.50 - 3.75
130/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00
140/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00 - 4.50
150/70 ---> 3.50 - 3.75 - 4.00 - 4.50

120/60 ---> 3.00 - 3.50 - 3.75
150/60 ---> 4.00 - 4.50
160/60 ---> 4.25 - 4.50 - 5.00

The oem-rims from the Ninja 250 are 2.75 front and 3.50 rear while the Ninja 300 got a 4.00 in the rear.

Makes sense, is that recommended only? I've seen many people upgrade.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by shandu

Makes sense, is that recommended only? I've seen many people upgrade.

Yes, but please keep in mind that when the tire is mounted on the recommended rim it keeps the structure or form it's made (sorry I don't know how to describe it better in english).

[shandu]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Yes, but please keep in mind that when the tire is mounted on the recommended rim it keeps the structure or form it's made (sorry I don't know how to describe it better in english).

It makes sense.

I was hoping some more people who have done would be able to give their input.

[Viskoner]

I will post pics as I said I am waiting to cleaner up so she looks her sunday best.

[Alex]

You need to take some of these reviews with a grain of salt. *Every* new tire that you put on a motorcycle feels like it is world-changing compared to the worn one that was just replaced. The shape goes flat, the rubber gets less pliant, and the performance and feel of any motorcycle tire generally gets progressively worse from day 1 until the day it is removed.

It's why most ad hoc tire reviews like this, especially with folks who haven't gone through dozens of prior tire changes to understand this phenomenon, always have such glowing reviews of every type of new tire that is put on their bike. Wrong size? Feels great. Touring tire? Still feels 10 times stickier than the old tire.

It's not that those impressions are wrong, it's just not comparing apples to apples. That's why magazine reviews that compare a bunch of tires at one time, all new, can provide some valuable insights. It's why you need to learn more about the reviewer (How many other tires have they tried? What have they found different or better about each?)

[shandu]

Originally Posted by Alex

You need to take some of these reviews with a grain of salt. *Every* new tire that you put on a motorcycle feels like it is world-changing compared to the worn one that was just replaced. The shape goes flat, the rubber gets less pliant, and the performance and feel of any motorcycle tire generally gets progressively worse from day 1 until the day it is removed.

It's why most ad hoc tire reviews like this, especially with folks who haven't gone through dozens of prior tire changes to understand this phenomenon, always have such glowing reviews of every type of new tire that is put on their bike. Wrong size? Feels great. Touring tire? Still feels 10 times stickier than the old tire.

It's not that those impressions are wrong, it's just not comparing apples to apples. That's why magazine reviews that compare a bunch of tires at one time, all new, can provide some valuable insights. It's why you need to learn more about the reviewer (How many other tires have they tried? What have they found different or better about each?)

This does make a lot of sense. I'll be asking a local shop that I'm friends with before i jump right in, but a wider contact patch does seem it would help, as well as a radial, rather than a bias-ply.

[ninjamunky85]

I would advise against mounting a 120 tire up front. It noticeably increases turn in effort and makes the bike feel less nimble. I'm running a 110/70-17 up front and a 150/60-17 in the rear on my 300.

I like the combo but honestly the rear is a little pinched and has some tread on the edges that can't be used. I would have gone with a 140 in the rear if it that size was available in the tires I wanted. Bigger tires aren't an upgrade IMO.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I would advise against mounting a 120 tire up front. It noticeably increases turn in effort and makes the bike feel less nimble.

Is that how it made you felt? Interesting... I ran a 120 front for 2yrs and felt is was fine enough. Sure, it takes a tad more turn in push but nothing that kills the bike. In fact, I prefer it when bouncing back and forth between the r6 and 250 as it helps things feel similar, well... as far as tuning goes.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by shandu

This does make a lot of sense. I'll be asking a local shop that I'm friends with before i jump right in, but a wider contact patch does seem it would help, as well as a radial, rather than a bias-ply.

Just to address the wider contact patch piece, that's counter-intuitive for a motorcycle tire compared to a more standard car tire. A m/c tire is rounded, it has a profile all the way around, which is what allows the bike to lean smoothly into turns. The contact patch itself changes shape as the bike leans, making a narrow tire in some cases appear to have a quite larger contact patch at different lean angles. That's part of the development that all tire manufacturers go through as they continue to refine that profile (and the compound, and the tread design), to allow for predictable performance when straight up and down, when at full lean, and everything in between.

Wider does not necessary equal better, as some general rule. When an overly wide tire is put on a narrow rim, all it does is squeeze it so much that the last inch of the tire is unusable anyway as it is completely perpendicular to the road. In some cases the remaining profile is still perfectly usable, In others, not so much.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Is that how it made you felt? Interesting...

It was actually not on a ninjette that I mounted a 120 tire up front, but on the klx250sf when I had that bike, and yes on that bike it made a noticeable difference. Sure the bike still handled good, but turn in just wasn't as quick. I also didn't like how big the tire looked. In the end I regretted going with the bigger tire.

Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks bigger tires aren't better. I remember a review of the CBR 500 vs the Ninja 300 where the criticized the CBR for having bigger tires than it needed.

From motorcyclistonline: " Honda, for some inexplicable reason (styling, perhaps?), picked tires big enough for an SV650—a 120/70ZR-17 front, 160/60ZR-17 rear, happily common sizes for the tightwads among us—and they doubtlessly slow the 500’s steering."

[csmith12]

I see Ryan, it must be contextual or something? Having counter steered hard enough to cause front chatter on 250's and 600's (no 500's), I am not sure that it applies to all riders as a blanket statement though.

And for full disclosure, I am running a 110 on my 250 now. Do I like it better than 120? Not really, do I like a 120 any better? Nope, it's t it for t at and up to the rider.

I still will take your input as a decision factor going forward, different bikes feel well... different and different strokes for different folks.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by csmith12

And for full disclosure, I am running a 110 on my 250 now. Do I like it better than 120? Not really, do I like a 120 any better? Nope, it's t it for t at and up to the rider.

I still will take your input as a decision factor going forward, different bikes feel well... different and different strokes for different folks.

Obviously this is a topic that's been beat to death over the years, and honestly most riders aren't even going to notice such a small difference, or if they do they'll probably just adjust to the new tire and forget what the old size felt like.

Even so, I just don't think that there is any advantage to a larger tire. Except for straight line stability, which I don't see as a problem with these bikes, or like in your case where you're switching between a 600 and a 250 where the consistency might be what you're looking for.

If there were no good options for a 110 front tire, then I'd say go with a 120, but that isn't the case as there are several good choices in the 110 size. For the rear I wouldn't recommend anything bigger than a 150, and 140 is the better option... But like you said,"different strokes for different folks", that's just what I prefer.

[InvisiBill]

Check out the Pilot Street Radials. They're available in stock sizes and seem to perform quite well while still being pretty durable. They seem like a good way to get a modern tire without having to worry about sizing or mods.

I upgraded to the wider VRossi wheels and went with a 150/60 for a slightly wider tire without having to worry about fitment issues due to a much larger tire. I stuck with the stock 110/70 in the front to maintain the steering quickness. I was originally looking at the 120/70 and 120/65, but when I realized the front wheel was the same width as stock, I just stayed with the stock size.

[Braden07]

Was thinking the EXACT same thing when I read this thread. It's why guys who buy shinko's give them good reviews lol.

Originally Posted by Alex

You need to take some of these reviews with a grain of salt. *Every* new tire that you put on a motorcycle feels like it is world-changing compared to the worn one that was just replaced. The shape goes flat, the rubber gets less pliant, and the performance and feel of any motorcycle tire generally gets progressively worse from day 1 until the day it is removed.

It's why most ad hoc tire reviews like this, especially with folks who haven't gone through dozens of prior tire changes to understand this phenomenon, always have such glowing reviews of every type of new tire that is put on their bike. Wrong size? Feels great. Touring tire? Still feels 10 times stickier than the old tire.

It's not that those impressions are wrong, it's just not comparing apples to apples. That's why magazine reviews that compare a bunch of tires at one time, all new, can provide some valuable insights. It's why you need to learn more about the reviewer (How many other tires have they tried? What have they found different or better about each?)

[wardie]

Tires bigger than allotted rim sizes may not keep tire shape. My experience with mounting a larger aspect ratio tire on the front is that it hampers/hinders my turn in. The bike felt more sluggish. I did this on a 500 NINJA I had years ago and regretted it till I could get it off. Wardie JMO

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by Braden07

Was thinking the EXACT same thing when I read this thread. It's why guys who buy shinko's give them good reviews lol.

You ever actually tried shinko tires? I've ran em on a few of my bikes, and have recommended them to friends. Never seen a bad tire from them. Might not be a tire that you take to the track, but plenty capable of anything you should encounter on the streets.

[Viskoner]

As promised pictures with my new tires... Michelin pilot road 4's 120/60/17 in the front and 160/60/17 in the rear. Tires still have their shape and still not sluggish or anymore difficult to turn. I also have a zero gravity double bubble wind screen, shogun frame sliders, bar ends, graffix rim stickers and a hotbodies smoke undertail. I want proton flush mounts in the front and plan on making my own rear tire hugger then I think and I say this cautiously I will be done lol

https://www.dropbox.com/s/69cekaydqi...2017.56.57.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9oeost8kf...2017.56.20.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3qmiko92k...2017.57.19.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wx7qv2c1et...2017.56.30.jpg