Rear wheel brake

[Jaserion]

after reading, and viewing about crashes caused by braking with front wheel only especially in corner it reminds the importance of proper braking. with that said, i'm trying to develop a habit to brake with rear as well as front wheel. is that a good riding skill? thanks.

[csmith12]

Perhaps I am reading more into your question than what there really is but... are you asking if using both brakes to brake in a corner would lessen the chance of a crash?

[Jaserion]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Perhaps I am reading more into your question than what there really is but... are you asking if using both brakes to brake in a corner would lessen the chance of a crash?

no, i'm asking about braking in general. i want to form a good riding (braking) skill. in corners and turns, i was told and learned not the touch the front brake. if needed, i may apply rear wheel brake only (light and lighter).

thanks!

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by Jaserion

no, i'm asking about braking in general. i want to form a good riding (braking) skill with braking. in corners and turns, i was told and learned not the touch the front brake. if needed, i may apply rear wheel brake only (light and lighter).

thanks!

To put it simply, you can brake leaned over all the way to the apex. Of course, this is a learned skill and it's a bit more complex but it's entirely possible.

Whomever told you that is incorrect.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Jaserion

no, i'm asking about braking in general. i want to form a good riding (braking) skill. in corners and turns, i was told and learned not the touch the front brake. if needed, i may apply rear wheel brake only (light and lighter).

thanks!

Ah, Oh dear...

When I was "one of those HD riders" back many, many moons ago. I was told this as well, knew no better and believed it UNTIL... I hit my front brake really hard one time. I am still here to tell the tale, so I am pretty sure I was given a bit of bad advice.

I will give it to you straight then. There ARE times when ONLY the rear brake should be used.

Such as;
downhill slowly on a gravel surface,
when you run off the road/track and are braking in the grass/wet grass/mud,
to control a wheelie gone wrong, ect.. ect..

As far as general "normal" riding goes, most of your stopping power comes from the front. Accept that fact as your bike was designed with this functionality as a goal. Also, the harder you brake (especially with the front) the less weight is on the rear of the bike, making the rear brake less effective. This is also by design, simply have a look at the size of your front rotor vs your rear. My r6 has 2 sets of brakes on the front vs 1 in the rear, and for 100% fact they were not put there for looks or to never be used.

And please be careful with the braking to apex advice. It is true, it is complex, it is risky as hell and DEFINITELY not intended for riders still trying to figure things out.

[csmith12]

One other thought...

I seen you have taken a rider safety course in Cali. They didn't cover this very basic question during the class?

Gratz on passing btw!

[adouglas]

To be more precise, you can indeed brake with the front in a turn.

What you can't do is pull really hard on it.

The technique is called "trail braking" and it's a bit more on the advanced side of things... when teaching basic skills people are told to avoid braking in the corners because in a panic, there's a tendency to grab the brake hard.

A great way to think of it is to imagine a pizza. It represents all your available traction.

Three people are sitting around the table with the pizza on it, named Braking, Traction and Acceleration. If Cornering grabs the whole pizza, there's none left for Braking. If Braking tries to steal some of the pizza from Cornering, there's gonna be a crash.

So if you're at the limit when in the turn, using ALL your available traction for cornering, then yeah... using the brakes is a bad idea. Same with whacking the throttle open; you want to get Cornering to give back some of that pizza so Acceleration can have a slice.

At the end of a straight, you're braking hard and need to turn. If you're braking at the limit... just short of locking the wheels... Braking has grabbed the whole pie. Bring Cornering in and bam... crash. So you brake a little lighter and Cornering can have lunch.

Think about how this works as you go into a corner. You're braking hard, with the bike straight up and down.

Lighten up a bit and lean a bit. You're still good. Then you lighten a bit more and lean a bit more... reallocating that pizza. And so on. Eventually you're off the brakes entirely. That's trail braking.

Now think about the rear brake. Yes you can use it, but lots of track (and race) riders don't. Why not?

For one thing, almost all of the braking force comes from the front anyway. Look at your front brake and look at your rear brake. Which one's bigger?

Why do you think they put a bigger brake on the front? Think about what happens when you brake hard. The weight transfers forward, right? It comes off of the rear wheel. That means the rear tire has less traction, and that means it's easier to lock the rear if you stomp on the rear brake hard. The rear brake needs to be less powerful.

Lock the rear and the likely outcome is a highside, which is the one thing about riding motorcycles that really does scare the pants off of me. I have no desire to do a Superman imitation.

So if you do use the rear, use it gently.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Ah, Oh dear...

When I was "one of those HD riders" back many, many moons ago. I was told this as well, knew no better and believed it UNTIL... I hit my front brake really hard one time. I am still here to tell the tale, so I am pretty sure I was given a bit of bad advice.

I will give it to you straight then. There ARE times when ONLY the rear brake should be used.

Such as;
downhill slowly on a gravel surface,
when you run off the road/track and are braking in the grass/wet grass/mud,
to control a wheelie gone wrong, ect.. ect..

As far as general "normal" riding goes, most of your stopping power comes from the front. Accept that fact as your bike was designed with this functionality as a goal. Also, the harder you brake (especially with the front) the less weight is on the rear of the bike, making the rear brake less effective. This is also by design, simply have a look at the size of your front rotor vs your rear. My r6 has 2 sets of brakes on the front vs 1 in the rear, and for 100% fact they were not put there for looks or to never be used.

And please be careful with the braking to apex advice. It is true, it is complex, it is risky as hell and DEFINITELY not intended for riders still trying to figure things out.

To clarify, it wasn't meant as advice. More of an example that the information provided was completely inaccurate and false.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by adouglas

A great way to think of it is to imagine a pizza.

[adouglas]

Atsa lotta pizza....

Must be using race slicks....

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jaserion

........... i'm trying to develop a habit to brake with rear as well as front wheel. is that a good riding skill? thanks.

It is.
Each road/weather/traffic/speed condition dictates how much of each to use and how.

Please, learn the principles and then practice those during each ride until they become healthy habits:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172628

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114555

[Jaserion]

thanks all. you've been an amazing resource!

/respect!!

[InvisiBill]

The front brake tends to be stronger on sport bikes, so it's easier to use too much of it. Using it also causes the front end to compress, altering the steering geometry. Both of these can combine to drastically change how much your bike is turning while in the middle of a turn, frequently leading to losing your balance. At parking lot speeds, you need to be careful with the front brake while turning.

For a brand new rider, it's easier to say not to touch the front brake while turning. As you gain experience, you'll get a better feel for how much of that traction pie you have available and how to use the brakes very gently as needed. (A lot of the ARC is telling you that if you're careful you can do things they told you never to do in the BRC.)