3rd Crash - Learn from my Mistakes

[nickjpass]

I made a goal to only crash twice this year, and I did. Unfortunately it was not simple lowsides like I planned.

The one iI experienced over a month ago was a collision between a rider and I. It was my first time in intermediate, and my coach let me pass so he could follow. I felt really good. Comfortable. A little anxious like always in the morning. I should have skipped the first session, or at least ridden slower. It took only three laps into the day to end it. A rider went ride in turn 13, notorious for collisions between riders.

The sv went wide, I was on the inside, and he came back around. I panicked. Tensed. Before I knew it my front tire was sliding and my bike was on top of my knee. I remember rolling on my head for a moment and then lots of dirt in the air. I opened my eyes and I was staring at the track. I layed there for a little while, made sure there wasn't any pain. I slowly moved, and got up after some moments. The session had already been red flagged and the ambulance was ready to go out. Fortunately, I was okay. I limped for the rest of the week, but my shoulder and knee are still bothering me. I've hurt the same knee and shoulder three times so its starting to catch up with me.

Lesson? Slow dowwwwnnnnnn and listen to yourself. Don't be afraid to put a hand up.

[nickjpass]

Suit helped so much. Without it I wouldn't have walked off.

My Alpinestar go pro gloves blew up a bunch of fingers. Helmet worked. Back protector was greats. Boots were great as well (cortech latigos - crash tested three times).

[Motofool]

Sorry to read this, Nick

[Sirref]

have you considered making your goal 0 crashes per year?

also, why were you trying to pass on the inside (or if you weren't trying to pass why were you so close) if the line would make sense for the rider to come right back at you? outside of a racing setting it just seems unnecessary to pass like that

glad you're alright though, I've still gotta ride with you sometime at nyst (on a tpm day)

[alex.s]

first session should always be the most cautious. you can go for the crash at the end of the day when you aren't wasting your track day

[choneofakind]

I remember this. We've already had a discussion about it. I'm still glad you're okay.

[nickjpass]

He took the "wrong" wider line, went out of site, and I thought he had let me pass, when he came back around the outside. If we didn't collide he would have went off the traxk regardless. If I didn't panic I would held my line and just put a hand up.

[Sirref]

Oh ok, basically he was romancing the corners a bit rather than creating as many straight lines as possible

[nickjpass]

Swinging instead of straight lines.

He apologized when I walked over but I told him it was ultimately my fault. He ended up riding a little more then drove his miata during the car session. He drifts pretty well haha

He had some bruises like me but his bike looked untouched. His slid while mine tumbled.

[csmith12]

We have a saying... "Give up a lap for another session, give up a session for another day."

Learning is good Nick...

[Sirref]

^ words to live by at the track

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

He took the "wrong" wider line, went out of site, and I thought he had let me pass, when he came back around the outside. If we didn't collide he would have went off the traxk regardless. If I didn't panic I would held my line and just put a hand up.

Originally Posted by Sirref

Oh ok, basically he was romancing the corners a bit rather than creating as many straight lines as possible

SVs don't straight line corners, they are similar to ninjette's long swooping turns with high corner speed. main reason i want to get an SV for track days and racing.

[Sirref]

nah man, from the look of that picture you'd want to stay as straight line as possible there on any bike

[choneofakind]

Romancin'??? weeerrrrdd, yo!

[nickjpass]

I watched ninjettes pass me without swooping

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Sirref

nah man, from the look of that picture you'd want to stay as straight line as possible there on any bike

picture is too small.

[Sirref]

I expanded it on my phone

low res but I could see what I needed to see

[cbinker]

not sure what he is attempting to show in the picture, from what i am seeing the SV had a decent corner speed line, maybe wider then what OP prefers, and was hitting late Apex to go straight through the kink to the next left.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by cbinker

not sure what he is attempting to show in the picture, from what i am seeing the SV had a decent corner speed line, maybe wider then what OP prefers, and was hitting late Apex to go straight through the kink to the next left.

I think I may have looked at that backwards...

I thought the sv was going wide in the kink, would make a lot more sense to go wide in the other direction.

[alex.s]

romancing the corner.... reminds me of ron/jon from jennings...

i can still see that leathered up sack of man shakin those hips

[psych0hans]

Glad you're ok Nick... Could've ended a lot worse... Good Luck!

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Learning is good Nick...

True. But crashing isn't. A lesson that I have to crash in order to learn is not a lesson I want or need.

I'm with Ben on making the goal 0 crashes... I do not see going down as inevitable. Can it happen? Of course. But that "my goal is to crash less this year" line of thinking puts crashing in your head, where it has no business being.

My ultimate goal as a rider is not unlike the daily priority of a cop. Namely, to get back in one piece. Everything -- EV-ER-Y-THING -- else is secondary. Speed, fun, skill development, all of it. To finish first, you must first finish.

@csmith12 will tell you that I'm too conservative. And he's right.

But I'm learning all the time anyway and making great progress.

And there are big upsides... my bike is intact, I get to spend my money on track time instead of fixing the bike, I get more time on track, I have no medical issues, my wife doesn't hassle me about taking risks and I'm still doing this at age 56.

[choneofakind]

meh, you're getting old and senile. You're allowed to be conservative

You have a good point though. I learned your lesson through my crash. Actually, that was the biggest lesson I learned: Make every session a clean session so you can keep riding the next session.

[nickjpass]

The line is a straight shot after corner 12 into 13, let it run wide a little, then hit the second apex where we collided. The SV swung out wide into the corner when entering it.

Hindsight 20\20

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

meh, you're getting old and senile. You're allowed to be conservative.

Who are you? Where am I? Who are all these people? What were we talking about again? I need a nap.

[alex.s]

hey woah, woah. there's nothing wrong with naps.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

The line is a straight shot after corner 12 into 13, let it run wide a little, then hit the second apex where we collided. The SV swung out wide into the corner when entering it.

Hindsight 20\20

what group was this in? what are the passing rules for that group?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what group was this in? what are the passing rules for that group?

Intermediate

No passing inside.

I felt that if i backed off the throttle i would have lost the front. Everything happened so fast, that I didn't know what to do.

[adouglas]

So in the image of the turn I assume you were going counterclockwise around the track?

If so, then it looks like you were passing to the inside through that long left sweeper. I can understand that if you'd lost sight of the guy, but it's still passing on the inside.

My uber-conservative self would have followed him through the entire complex, setting up a pass for the front straight.

In hindsight, how would you have gotten around him if you had it to do over again?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by adouglas

So in the image of the turn I assume you were going counterclockwise around the track?

If so, then it looks like you were passing to the inside through that long left sweeper. I can understand that if you'd lost sight of the guy, but it's still passing on the inside.

My uber-conservative self would have followed him through the entire complex, setting up a pass for the front straight.

In hindsight, how would you have gotten around him if you had it to do over again?

Held my line and tighten it up as much as possible.

OR slow down and let him pass.

[Sirref]

option A = good for a race
option B = good for a track day

btw, you can connect with someone mid-corner without either of you crashing. I've done so with someone who was riding as stupid aggressive as me in a race. We were elbowing each other and everything. I had purple paint on my fairings and his showed obvious damage without having a crash

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I felt that if i backed off the throttle i would have lost the front. Everything happened so fast, that I didn't know what to do.

I have to roll off the throttle mid-corner quite often on track while coaching/following/filming riders. It's not really something you want to be doing but it's NOT an instant guaranteed crash. If you HAVE to do it, stand the bike up a bit (get off the edge of the tire) and roll off. You can see and hear it in many of the videos I posted following other ninjette members.

This is one of those things where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When you roll up on a slower rider, take a corner or two, or even a whole lap and see how they ride and their lines. Set up a "planned, clean pass" and all should be well 99% of the time.

One of the least practiced skills in TOTW2 is "practice your roll off as much as your roll on".

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Held my line and tighten it up as much as possible.

OR slow down and let him pass.

Let me rephrase that.

If you had to do it over again, would you have attempted to pass where you did, or figured out a better way?

Incidents don't happen instantaneously. They start to develop long before actual contact.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Let me rephrase that.

If you had to do it over again, would you have attempted to pass where you did, or figured out a better way?

Incidents don't happen instantaneously. They start to develop long before actual contact.

Held my line. He was going off the track anyway.

I never pass in that corner. Error in judgment caused a boo boo

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i can still see that leathered up sack of man shakin those hips

NEVER!!!!! say this again.

[alex.s]

lmao

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Intermediate

No passing inside.

I felt that if i backed off the throttle i would have lost the front. Everything happened so fast, that I didn't know what to do.

stand up and brake and then put it back down?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by alex.s

stand up and brake and then put it back down?

Maybe some rear would have fixed it.

The rear fixes everything

[alex.s]

not really

[alex.s]

if you're really smooth you can brake pretty hard while leaned over if you weren't on the gas... you know if already have weight on the front... obviously if you're on the throttle leaned over you'll want to pull up before you can slam a bunch of weight on the front or whatever or you'll wind up overloading the front right away.