Buying new bike - Tips?

[five10]

Like the title says, I'm trying to buy a new bike - either a Ninja 250ddy or a 300net ABS.

The first dealership I went to didn't budge a nickel. I am preparing for future negotiations and am wondering how much extended warranties (Good Times Protection Plan?) are worth.

>How much did you guys get charged for the warranty & how many years coverage? Does the dealership pay for the warranty or does it all come out of the pockets of Kawasaki corporate? How much should I pay for it for a new bike, off season?

>Any other tips for negotiations? What did you ask for/what did you get? What did they charge for it?

Thanks! Looking forward to a group ride once I can fly without training wheels

[five10]

Wanted to add, I will be fully documenting my experiences in buying a motorcycle for all the future newbies down the road.

Aside from negotiating for an extended warranty, I may ask for some basic maintenance stuff like lube/oil/filters, ask for first service, delivery to home, etc. Also, cash is king so I'll be prepared to drop some stacks

Are there any other negotiation tools that you've made work?

[MistahT]

I did lots of research before buying my first new bike. They don't have as much wiggle room as car dealerships, that's for sure. I walked in, they quoted me a price otd I thought was fair (almost a grand cheaper than other dealers and about what the internet said is fair), so I asked for a pair of riding pants, he threw them in, and we did the paperwork.

I'm trying to help a friend of mine get a 2012 Ninja 650 now. Dealers 1-2 hours away are telling him 6-6,500 otd, but close to home asking 7k otd. Local dealer won't match the other prices. He might have to drive (it's ok, the close one is black but one of the far ones is green )

Just some of my experiences. Might help you with yours.

[Enfemus]

I did the same as MistahT and researched a lot and looked on Craigslist etc. for a good bike. I really wanted the blue bike and not many listings had the blue. Walked in to a dealership that my friends bought from and they quoted me a great price on a new 2010 ninja and it was blue. Signed the paperwork and left with a new bike.

You can try to haggle but sometimes they won't budge especially for a wanted item. I would see if they could throw in a free jacket or helmet if they won't budge on the price or maybe some deals on future oil changes/storage/maintenance/etc. Something to sweeten the deal for you even if the price doesn't change.

I paid about 5k and that was with extended warranty as well.

Hope this helps some what.

[five10]

MistahT - Go get the bike today. End of the month, Dealership/salesmen quotas. I heard end of December was the best cause of some tax incentive to sell before the new year.

Enfemous -

Originally Posted by Enfemus

future oil changes/storage/maintenance/etc.

Exactly what I'm looking for! Did you get any of this stuff? If so, how much of each?

Originally Posted by Enfemus

I paid about 5k and that was with extended warranty as well.

Do you remember the breakdown in terms of the cost of the warranty and the years of coverage?
I did some research online with 3 forums (ninjette/BARF/kawasakininja300) and from what I can tell, the range is $115-500. Problem is, a lot of people leave out the years covered. Ie $115 could be a good deal for 4 year coverage, but not as good if it's 12 months coverage.


Thanks all and keep the suggestions comin!

[Enfemus]

If I remember correctly I got discounts off future oil changes, like 10% or something wasn't much but at least something. I bought all my gear previously for MSF course so didn't need any there.

As for the break down I'll post again once I get home from work where all my paperwork is.

[Rollo]

If this will be your first bike, don't buy new. When you're learning, you probably will drop the bike or dump it in a corner. Dropping a brand new 250/300 will hurt a whole lot more than dropping a 250 you picked up for significantly less and might have already been shiny side down before.

Also, if you've never ridden a motorcycle before, you might want to reconsider getting a 300. While they aren't anything monstrous, they do have a fair bit more power than a 250, especially at lower RPMs. A 250 is a kitten. A 300 is a fairly grumpy alley cat.

Finally, when you do get your bike, wear your protective gear. Helmet, jacket, gloves, boots and pants.

I'm done preaching now. Good luck!

[csmith12]

Take cash in hand, they will budge then.

[Apex]

Cash in hand always helps. Also, if they don't budge in price, which several do not, they do budge with accessories. First bike I got a free helmet and jacket.

[five10]

Enfemus - cool thanks! LMK the breakdown when you have a chance

Rollo - lol. Amen. First bike. Although my hours are low, not my first time on a bike. MSF'ed. Got full gear - helmet, gloves, jacket, boots. Now any word on your experience in negotiating/warranty/tips for a 250/300?

csmith/Apex - Like literal cash in hand? Offered 2 dealerships check in hand. No dice -__-


Thanks for all the input! Any other tips on how to get the dealer to budge will help. Bribe a salesman with a donut? :P Gonna try again in a few weeks.

[Byakkotai]

Try dealers outside the Bay? They usually budge if they can't move inventory. Haven't come across many posters here yet that got a spectacular deal on a 300 like our out-of-state members

Hmmm...pick the end of a rainy week and then go at them with the check?

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by five10

Rollo - lol. Amen. First bike. Although my hours are low, not my first time on a bike. MSF'ed. Got full gear - helmet, gloves, jacket, boots. Now any word on your experience in negotiating/warranty/tips for a 250/300?

Not sure how it is in your area right now, but a friend of mine who works for a local dealer complained about not being able to sell 250s right now because of the 300. So that might work to your benefit.

If you go to a dealer which you know doesn't have 300s in stock, they might be willing to cut some of their fees to put you on a 250.

[Z300]

get a 300

[five10]

Byakkotai - will do. I always see Hollister Motorsports postings on Craigslist. Might not be very many rainy days left in this season..

Rollo - I'm be interested in that as well. Maybe the 300 will be cheaper when the CBR500 comes out eh? I know the 250's definitely will.

Ninja_yas - not trying very hard but ok!


I'll hit the dealerships this weekend, bringing a few hundred in cash and my checkbook.

Also, dropping the idea of getting a warranty. Don't have a whole lot to drop and read that it's mostly for the mind and less for the bike.

Thanks again. Any other advice will be taken Will post my entire buying experience when I do get my bike!

[psych0hans]

Why don't you look into the Costco program? I believe they generally hve some good offers...

[five10]

@hans - the bike I wanted was not eligible for the Costco deal. I bought it anyways and will claim the Costco gift card

Will update with a post on my experiences in getting my new bike

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by five10

@hans - the bike I wanted was not eligible for the Costco deal. I bought it anyways and will claim the Costco gift card

Will update with a post on my experiences in getting my new bike

Looking forward to it... The 300 is launching in India in a week or so, will be lining up to buy it asap. Only black and green and no ABS... b***ards... I believe it's about 6800$ OTD but only time will tell... Also, about the warranty, I know I'm going to void mine as soon as it's broken in...

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

The 300 is launching in India in a week or so

I wonder how long until the Indonesian dudes are importing 300 parts from other Asian countries and swapping the engines

[LoneRonin]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Looking forward to it... The 300 is launching in India in a week or so, will be lining up to buy it asap. Only black and green and no ABS... b***ards... I believe it's about 6800$ OTD but only time will tell... Also, about the warranty, I know I'm going to void mine as soon as it's broken in...

I thought you guys were just getting an 'updated' 250 with the same body as the 300...

[broken neck]

Try going there at the end of the month... Sometimes, they haven't met their quotas and are more willing to lower the price to get one more sale.

If you want a 250, try to get some leftover from the previous years, same new smell, same warranty, much better price. That's what I did, I got 1 200$ the retail price of a 2012 for a 2011 and didn't have to pay for the assembly fees.

If you want a new bike for your fisrt bike, go head, a lot of people here crashed even with a couple of years of experience, some new to motorcycling might ride a couple of years before dropping, dumping, crashing their bike.

Get the one you can afford and you'll like, you'l be more likely to be more careful about your ride.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

I thought you guys were just getting an 'updated' 250 with the same body as the 300...

Nope, that's Indonesia, I'm in India...

[five10]

@hans -- awesome! What are the color options?

@broken neck -- exactly! End of the month motivation is a great tool to use!
Also if anybody's looking, I saw some 2012 250's marked down to $3400/$3500 (sticker price). Don't pay any mark-up and you'll be OTD for a few bucks over $3900.

===

So I got a deal for my black 300 @$5400


I did my research about pricing, negotiations, rapport, etc etc.

To make a long story.. less long, I did 5 things .

1. Have your finances ready so you can talk in out the door (OTD) pricing.
Save up the money, borrow from family or get a good loan from your credit union. Can somebody chime in on a good interest rate/payback period?

2. Figure out your local area price by shopping around at different dealerships and shmoozin a good OTD quote from them. I picked some OTD info from ninjette.org and kawasa***************. Be sure to only use the prices in your area -- I used SF Bay Area and LA pricing and ignored/jealously envied the prices from the Midwest.

3. Have 3 numbers in your head: 1)your estimated cost of bike MSRP+TaxTitleRegistration (TTR), 2)your "first offer" price, and 3)your max price. If the dealer can't get under your max price, respectfully walk.

In California, use this formula: MSRP (that you want to pay) * 1.0065(title) + MSRP * tax + 3.5 (CA tire fee) + $93 (registration)

For example, if I want to pay 4799 MSRP + TTR only: 4799x1.0065 + 4799*.09 +3.5 +93 = 5358.65

My offer price was $5350 - a little below MSRP - and my max price was $5500. I shot this number at somebody and the lowest we came down to was $5600 so I walked. I offered another dealer $5350 and got $5500 for a non-ABS green.. I wanted black/white so I walked. Wash, rinse, repeat, win -- $5400.

I could have spent hours to negotiate further, but this guy was cool. Also, I didn't want to leave them with a sour taste in their mouth. At the end, it's a win-win-win. Salesman gets a fatter bonus, dealership gets another sale to beat quota, I leave with a new Ninja within $50 bucks of my asking price.

Here's a good thread on BARF from a salesman's perspective: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo...ghlight=grumpy

4. Sticker price means nothing. There is an "invoice price" which is never shown, but it's always lower than MSRP. Dealership will never honestly go below invoice price unless they are in big financial trouble or have dead stock (last year's stuff).

The sticker price for a non-ABS 300 is $6099ish +/- a few hundred depending on the dealership. OTD, that $6099 is close to $6800! When you reach an agreeable OTD price, the dealership will fudge the #'s to match the price.

For example: tax/title/registration depends on the price of the bike so in order to match the OTD price, the dealer will "massage" MSRP, freight, docs, set up, whatever fee to make the final cost magically the OTD price and not a single penny more.

5. Timing, timing, timing.
Salesmen aren't getting paid to sit around. They get paid to sell. If they're bad salesmen, they'll need your business to meet their quota. If they're good salesmen, they'll want your business to get a bigger bonus.
Dealerships don't stay dealerships by not selling vehicles. They also need to meet quotas so end of the quarter deals should be sweet too.
Triple points for going at the end of a fiscal quarter at the end of the riding season (December).

Trends I noticed from cheapest to most expensive times to buy:
End of fiscal year/dead season in December, end of fiscal quarter/end of month/end of season (September), end of fiscal quarter/end of month in March..... all the way to mid riding season in like July or so.

Hope this helps! Do your research! I was looking into buying a 250 on and off since May last year hence the trends above.

Anybody have anything to add? Comment? Suggestions? Complaints? Have at it!

[psych0hans]

Black and green.

[allanoue]

good tips
thank you

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by five10

csmith/Apex - Like literal cash in hand? Offered 2 dealerships check in hand. No dice -__-

Yea, I had a stack of big faces and set it on the salesman's desk, while we chatted. It must have sat there for 20 or more mins while I asked questions and complained about the rear fender. The longer it sat there in his sight, the more he sweat and I could see the gears turn. hahahahah

I got the bike for under MSRP, it went kinda like this;

Me: I will buy the bike, I have this much paper to work with.
Salesman: Lemme see...
Me: Counts money..
Salesman: Let me get the manager
Me: Raises eyebrow and counts another stack
Salesman: I got the manager on the phone, we can do it for 200 under MSRP.
Me: Cool, now.... I don't wanna buy that fender though
Salesman: Raises eyebrow, leans back and asks another salesman what can be done.
Me: Yea... I will buy the bike as long as the fender is not there when I ride away.
Salesman: Gets service manager on the phone and says ok, we will clean that up.
Me: Great, we have a deal. I start counting $$ again.
Salesman: Lets work up the final cost with taxes and such. Then.... he gets to crate and assembly.
Me: Raises eyebrow... nah man, you can keep your crate. I am trying to fight my addiction to crates.
Salesman: Raises eyebrow and says, maybe we can get that taken off. (Calls manager again)
Me: Ya think?....
Saleman: Ok, crate and assembly fees are gone.
Me: Let's ride.

Grand total after taxes, registration, a full tank of gas, fender eliminator and a voucher for the first service, $4200.

[five10]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Yea, I had a stack of big faces and set it on the salesman's desk, while we chatted. It must have sat there for 20 or more mins while I asked questions and complained about the rear fender. The longer it sat there in his sight, the more he sweat and I could see the gears turn. hahahahah

I got the bike for under MSRP, it went kinda like this;

Me: I will buy the bike, I have this much paper to work with.
Salesman: Lemme see...
Me: Counts money..
Salesman: Let me get the manager
Me: Raises eyebrow and counts another stack
Salesman: I got the manager on the phone, we can do it for 200 under MSRP.
Me: Cool, now.... I don't wanna buy that fender though
Salesman: Raises eyebrow, leans back and asks another salesman what can be done.
Me: Yea... I will buy the bike as long as the fender is not there when I ride away.
Salesman: Gets service manager on the phone and says ok, we will clean that up.
Me: Great, we have a deal. I start counting $$ again.
Salesman: Lets work up the final cost with taxes and such. Then.... he gets to crate and assembly.
Me: Raises eyebrow... nah man, you can keep your crate. I am trying to fight my addiction to crates.
Salesman: Raises eyebrow and says, maybe we can get that taken off. (Calls manager again)
Me: Ya think?....
Saleman: Ok, crate and assembly fees are gone.
Me: Let's ride.

Grand total after taxes, registration, a full tank of gas, fender eliminator and a voucher for the first service, $4200.

Haha wow. That's pretty ballzy! Did you have a backup plan? What bike and when in the season was this?

I didn't want to go too hard cause I may go back to that dealership for the standard maintenance. Didn't want them to eff me on maintenance or whatever in the future.

I will bring a stack of money next time. I probably would've gotten an even sweeter deal!

[csmith12]

It was my 2010 250 purchased in April of 2011, the beginning of the season. So technically it was the previous years model but I didn't see any difference at the time aside of the paperwork. And no... I had no plan b. It was a sink or swim deal.

I guess my local deal is pretty cool aside of every time I go in there, they ask me if I am ready to upgrade yet. I just might go back there in the future and buy that sumo from them. If.... they keep the rear fender of course. hahahahhahahha

[choneofakind]

...If you're ready to upgrade??? More like if you'll slow down for them to catch up. Clearly they haven't seen you ride

[five10]

Insurance
So aside from the initial price scouting on your bike, you may also want to start checking quotes from insurance.

I've heard that your quotes will go down after a six month gap. For example, you go through the quote getting process in January, repeat it in June and your quote will drop.

Gear
Another thing to think about is gear. The cheapest gear I've seen was at MotoGP @ Laguna Seca. But if you need your helmet now, this could be an issue.

IME, from most expensive to cheapest:
Dealership +20% off, Cycle Gear +MSF discount, MotoGP

For example, my Shoei RF1100 helmet:
Dealership = $500 -20% = $480
Cycle Gear = $450 -15% MSF discount = ~$380
MotoGP = ~350 IIRC

This can change throughout the season/various promotions. A few $10's may not be much to some people, but you can definitely time your buy to save the most money (<<moral of the thread).

[five10]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Plan B is to do it again at the end of the month/end of the quarter. "How's this wad of cash lookin like now?"

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...If you're ready to upgrade??? More like if you'll slow down for them to catch up. Clearly they haven't seen you ride

Yea, they just want me to buy one of those new 636's they got on the showroom floor. As sexy as they look, I am not in the market for another bike with a phat rear tire. I am after something with knobbies on it. And yea... I will have cash in hand, I am thinking around end of July maybe if things work out right.

[TedBull]

I have bought and sold a bunch of bikes over the years. Bought my 08 GSXR 1000 off the showroom floor. I failed to get an insurance qoute before I bought the bike. I was a bit shocked by the insurance premium I had to pay. Never do that again. Bought my SV650 from the dealer, same with all my dirtbikes. Got some great deals on bikes from craigslist and the local bike club/forum.

The best by far is to buy used. Dealers have so many fees. And bikes lose value so quickly. Lots of good bikes out there sitting unridden in garages waiting to be bought and sold.

[allanoue]

[smithjohn57]

I have been looking for a new 2012 250r in the NY area. The best I can seem to do so far is ~$4250 OTD. I feel like this is a little high, especially since the dealers are advertising lower prices but insist on keeping some of the dealer fees. I would be relatively happy to pay the advertised price plus tax and title which would be more like ~$4000, but I can't seem to get anyone there yet. Inventory over stock on new 2012s isn't too high, so I don't know how much leverage I have if I wait things out a bit. I guess my questions are do you think I can get it for less if I wait a bit, but not before it becomes prime riding season and are the prices reasonable for a 2012?

[five10]

Originally Posted by smithjohn57

I have been looking for a new 2012 250r in the NY area. The best I can seem to do so far is ~$4250 OTD. I feel like this is a little high, especially since the dealers are advertising lower prices but insist on keeping some of the dealer fees. I would be relatively happy to pay the advertised price plus tax and title which would be more like ~$4000, but I can't seem to get anyone there yet. Inventory over stock on new 2012s isn't too high, so I don't know how much leverage I have if I wait things out a bit. I guess my questions are do you think I can get it for less if I wait a bit, but not before it becomes prime riding season and are the prices reasonable for a 2012?

Not sure how it is in your area, but here's my take.

The Ninja 250's are dead stock to dealerships, IMO. They sank money in it when ordering from the manufacturer. They need to recoup that money and want to recoup as much as possible. Still, they want to make a deal, hence the lowered sticker price. They should be very motivated to make a deal.

What type of fees are they looking for? I basically paid Tax, Title, and Registration for CA. In my invoice, they had my bike under msrp and massaged some fees into it, while still keeping our agreed upon OTD price.

PSA: Negotiation isn't about one party getting the most outta the other. It has to end with both parties agreeing to close the deal. That said, you can try your best in negotiating a lower price.

Also, to spell it out, your risk is not getting the bike at your previous OTD quote & your reward is getting it cheaper. Weigh your options.

It's already riding season in the SF Bay Area. When does riding season start for you? If your area of NY hasn't seen much sun, you could try going at the end of the month - salesmen with quota to meet, dealerships with lights to keep on/salaries to pay. Go about 2 days before the end of the month. If you can't close the deal - smile, thank the guy and give him your number on a card with your OTD price on there. Hopefully, you'll get it.

Talk to the sales manager. When my buddy was looking for a bike, he got nowhere with this salesman and gave up on the dealership. I came back months later and get a better deal on a 300 than he did on a 250. The difference was probably the fact that I negotiated with the sales floor manager.

You could also pull a csmith and bust out a fat wad of cash. Read his post above. If the dealership has been hurting for money, this is a really high pressure technique to get them to crumble.

Also, as enfemus noted, bargain with goods and services. You want $250 lowered. How about getting some knee pads and a set of stands thrown in for $4250 OTD? Maybe throw in an oil change? Delivery

Hope this helps!

[smithjohn57]

I forgot to follow up on this thread. I went to 2 dealers in NY, 2 days before the end of the month, it also happened to be cool and overcast that day. Made my cash offer of advertised price plus tax (8.5%) and title which was ~$4,050 OTD. I unfortunately got no takers. The second dealer countered with essentially the same "best" price of $4,250 as the 1st dealer I had previously talked to. I just decided to wait for now and have been checking craigslist for used bikes in the mean time. If the bikes are still in stock at the end of this month I might try again. Thanks for all the advice.

[Jesse8931]

for 200 bucks your walking away from a brand new bike ?
save your self 200 bucks and miss the best part of the season no thanks.

[five10]

Originally Posted by smithjohn57

I forgot to follow up on this thread. I went to 2 dealers in NY, 2 days before the end of the month, it also happened to be cool and overcast that day. Made my cash offer of advertised price plus tax (8.5%) and title which was ~$4,050 OTD. I unfortunately got no takers. The second dealer countered with essentially the same "best" price of $4,250 as the 1st dealer I had previously talked to. I just decided to wait for now and have been checking craigslist for used bikes in the mean time. If the bikes are still in stock at the end of this month I might try again. Thanks for all the advice.

NICE! $4050/4250 is one of the lowest I've seen! No prob on the advice. Just sharing my experience. Thanks for sharing yours when you pull the trigger

Did you give them a counter offer when they said $4250?

Now that you have 2 dealerships offering the same price, maybe you can get them to compete for your money. If they can't move in price, see if they can throw in some other stuff. Maybe a rear spool/swingarm stand and/or a can of lube? Free delivery? Free first service?
Try complementing them while requesting the freebies. "C'mon! You guys are the biggest dealer in town! You can surely beat Z dealership! They offered $X,XXX when I went there last week. If you can beat $X,XXX, you have my money & a bag of chips! "

Also, you can check if any of those dealers participate with Costco (for bikes other than the 300). I just got my $250 cash card and will post about the details soon.

FYI, I walked away from a $5350 OTD and ended up paying $5400 2 months later. I didn't want to fight tooth/nail for $50 bucks, and it was under my $55/5600 upper limit.

Hope you get a great deal!

[KawiKid860]

Wow for $200 I would have just accepted it lol. It wasn't at a dealer but I flashed an extra $100 in front of the guy I bought my CBR from's face to get him to accept the offer lol. These are great tips! Will definitely remember when I go to buy my first new bike, which will be quite a ways from now