October 7th, 2014, 12:01 PM | #1 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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Gixxer rear shock question - rear stiffness too high
I installed a gixxer rear shock on my 2008 250. The shock was off a 2008 750 and the rider was about 210 lbs. I used the stock 250 swingarm and linkages, but I had to get all new bolts and some spacers. I also had to grind the clevis of the shock to accept the 250 linkage. I've checked everything over a couple times and I can't find anything obvious that is binding. The rear of the bike feels almost solid - as in I'm not getting the linkage to travel. It seems as if the shock is stiffer than the subframe and the swingarm. When I push on the rear end, I feel like the movement I'm getting is the subframe and swingarm flexing instead of the shock compressing, but I honestly can't tell if that's what is happening or if it's in my head. My guess is that the settings on the shock are set pretty heavy and I need to lighten them up a bit. I don't have everything back on the bike yet and I'm wondering if the chassis is too light.
Has anyone else had this issue? When you installed the gixxer shock, did the swingarm still have a lot of travel or did the rear seem almost solid? |
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October 7th, 2014, 12:05 PM | #2 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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it does sound like something is binding, can you get something under the bike or footpegs and check for droop from the swingarm? Bike should have relatively normal suspension travel with the shock swap. Something is wrong.
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October 7th, 2014, 12:12 PM | #3 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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The bike, while farther along than this pic, is actually suspended from the rafters. When I put the rear stand under the swingarm, it just raises the subframe/whole bike. So that's why I'm wondering if it's normal for the gixxer shock to be so stiff that the weight of the 250 doesn't compress it at all, if the compression/rebound setting is just really far off on the shock, or if I need to find a detail of something that is binding and isn't entirely obvious.
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October 7th, 2014, 12:17 PM | #4 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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It may not settle much with just the weight of the bike on it if the preload is jacked way up and or compression adjusters. Take all the preload off the rear spring and back the clickers all the way back (count the turns just in case and write them down) and sit on it. Bike should squat enough for you to notice.
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October 7th, 2014, 12:50 PM | #5 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
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^ this
back the preload way out first. If you don't notice it getting any easier to compress make sure the spring is clearing the inside of the swing arm and not binding up Also check that you have movement in the linkage and nothing is binding up there. The gsxr shock is pretty stiff with the OEM spring. I wasn't crazy about it.
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October 7th, 2014, 01:04 PM | #6 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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Interesting. I will try this tonight and report back. Thanks!
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October 7th, 2014, 01:04 PM | #7 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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I believe the 08 600 and 750 share the same rear spring. Lemme know and I will go out and take my settings and post them for you. Can do pics if ya need.
People do silly stuff to suspension because it's like some voodoo black art.
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October 7th, 2014, 01:09 PM | #8 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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LOL I love the pic!
Yeah, they should be the same spring. The guy I bought the shock from had dynoed it, so I'm betting he left it on the last setting he dynoed, which would be all the way turned in on both high speed and rebound. I would LOVE any pictures or settings that you could share. I'm building this bike from the frame up and it wasn't completely assembled when I got it. While I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right, I'd love to confirm what I'm doing! |
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October 7th, 2014, 01:26 PM | #9 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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K, will get you some settings #'s and pics when I get a chance. Give me a bit and I will hook you up. Turned it up all the way, on any setting would pretty much a no go when putting a gsxr shock on a 250. lol
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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October 9th, 2014, 03:36 PM | #10 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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I checked the shock and both knobs were turned all the way to the right and there was a bunch of pre-load on the spring. No wonder! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
I took out all of the preload and turned the clickers all the way to the left and now the rear end moves. Hooray! Now for the tuning. I changed the fork oil before I re-installed the forks, so this weekend I'll try to get it all in a happy place a the track. But any advice on initial settings would be greatly appreciated! I'm also bringing the stock shock with me just in case. |
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October 9th, 2014, 03:41 PM | #11 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Oh snap! I didn't forget but I still need to share my baseline with ya.
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October 9th, 2014, 03:44 PM | #12 |
wat
Name: wat
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dont forget to spring up the front after doing the rear or you'll be sliding the front all over the place
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October 9th, 2014, 03:45 PM | #13 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
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Alex, can you explain a little more what you mean by that? Thanks!
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October 9th, 2014, 03:51 PM | #14 |
wat
Name: wat
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if the rear is oversprung compared to the front, the front will move a lot more from cornering forces and will throw the bike geometry all out of wack and makes it really easy to bottom out the front and start pushing out
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October 9th, 2014, 03:57 PM | #15 |
n00b with the b00bs
Name: Jen
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250, 2008 EX250, 2001 ZR-7S, 2010 ZX-6R Posts: 470
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Thanks for the clarity!
Stiffer springs are on the list of things to accumulate. I also have emulators but they are not installed. I did swap the oil to 15 wt instead of 10 wt. This thing is gonna be a hoot to figure out! |
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October 22nd, 2014, 01:09 PM | #16 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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Here is my settings on my gsxr rear shock. They are still not perfect, and I am currently tweaking rebound.
Preload - 3 threads above the collar Low Speed Damping - 1 turn Hi Speed Damping - 3 turns Rebound - 1 turn These will not be your setting as our riding styles could vary quite a bit. Also, I brake super hard and late, so my rebound is set pretty open compared to normal as I work my issue. Oh, this has the stock spring still on it.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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October 22nd, 2014, 01:15 PM | #17 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Bike suspension itself is not really all that hard. The hard part is trying to figure out what the rider means when he/she talks to you about how the bike feels and make the changes that will give them the end result they are after. It's an exercise in communication and interpretation skillz.
These two videos helped me when I first started getting into suspension.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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January 17th, 2015, 12:07 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Miguel
Location: MA
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Excellent instructional videos!
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January 17th, 2015, 05:28 AM | #20 | |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Quote:
And are those turns in from full soft or turns out from full stiff?
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January 17th, 2015, 08:19 AM | #21 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Quote:
Don't use these settings on your gixxer, they are most likely not even close to what you would need or what.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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