Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring

[rojoracing53]

Because every lot of steel has slightly different characteristics and thus a different rate. That's why most springs in suspension for example are rated then marked individually.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Skullz

Spring steel O_o

there is no such thing.

Spring steel is a name given to a wide range of steels used widely in the manufacture of springs, prominently in Automotive and Industrial suspension applications. These steels are generally low-alloy, medium-carbon steel or high-carbon steel with a very high yield strength.

[MAZ 80]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Isn't there a way to calculate spring rate knowing the coil diameter, wire thickness and number of coils?

Here you go, nothing to it.

k = Gd4/[8nD3] {note: the 4 and the 3 are powers}

Where:
k = constant, pounds of load per inch of deflection
G = modulus of rigidity of spring material, pounds per square inch
d = wire diameter, inches
n = number of active coils, which is the number of coils subjected to flexure (always less than the total number of coils)
D = mean coil diameter, inches = Outer Diameter - Wire Diameter

G is calculated from the spring materials Elastic moduls and Poisson Ratio n

G = E/(2(1 + v)

[DCMoney]

I bought 15 or so of these a few years back in a group buy to save on shipping, have one still brand new in package if any one is interested pm me.

Did make a noticeable difference, stopped popping out of gear.

[Ghostt]

Ride report for Kawasaki 92081-112 SPRING --- SPRING, SPRING, NEUTRAL,POSITIONING

Okay I can say it felt better, more firm, positive shifts, while a very little bit more effort to change gears.

So there's a definite difference between the stock Ninjette vs 92081-112 . I'm still waiting on my new digital caliper for measurements.

For now just by feel, it's a difference in a good way, so I'd say it worth the money for this spring (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...92081-112.html)

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Ride report for Kawasaki 92081-112 SPRING --- SPRING, SPRING, NEUTRAL,POSITIONING

Okay I can say it felt better, more firm, positive shifts, while a very little bit more effort to change gears.

So there's a definite difference between the stock Ninjette vs 92081-112 . I'm still waiting on my new digital caliper for measurements.

For now just by feel, it's a difference in a good way, so I'd say it worth the money for this spring (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...92081-112.html)

Thx for your report

[Ghostt]

No problem, hopefully this is a cheaper alternative to the $30.00 USD Blue Magic Spring for $2.82+shipping from Partzilla.

[Ghostt]

If anybody has a Factory Pro Blue Magic Spring, I would be interested in buying it, for comparing the two, or if someone can take measurements.

[rojoracing53]

OEM spring after 75,000 miles is 1.125 in length, .312OD and 0.040" wire gage thickness.
If it's tempered steel like it should be for motors then your looking at about 20.9 inch/lbs in rate. I can double the rate with the same size spring but 0.048 wire gage.

[Ghostt]

Okay time for some numbers, as in measurements

1998 Ninjette OEM 92144-1580 SPRING
Length=27mm/1.06"
I.D.=5.7mm/0.22"
O.D.=7.9mm/.31"
Wire diameter=0.7mm/0.02"

92081-112 SPRING
Length=30.9mm/1.21"
I.D.=5.7mm/0.22"
O.D.=7.9mm/0.31"
Wire diameter=0.8mm/0.03"

So there you have it, as I said I did the finger pinch test, and the 92081-112 SPRING is a lot notably stiffer.

So if anyone out has a Factory Pro Blue Magic Spring please take some measurements, or sell me one really really cheap.

[corksil]

Dang my attention to motorcycle maintenance has atrophied. Work has been... {insert excuse here}

After installing more aggressive cams, I haven't had a chance to perfectly dial in the mixture screws, let alone sync the carbs. After replacing the rear sprocket and installing non-o-ring chain, I rode around the block once or twice and realized that my chain instantly loosened up a bit, making the shifts loose and disconnecting the feel from the rear wheel and engine.

Properly tensioning drive chain and adjusting mixture screws (probably also need a bigger pilot jet for the new cams) should tighten the feel back with the original spring and shifting.

Still have that little blue bastard sitting in storage waiting for me to play with it... Maybe I should just mail it to you and write off my hopes for getting this bike dialed in due to current work load.

Haven't been much help as of yet, my apologies. Bear with me. All things, in proper time.

[Ghostt]

@corksil hey perfectly understandable, life happens. If you want to send that spring my way, PM me.

And here's some tips on tuning the idle mixture screws, and syncing the carburetors. Also I suggest PM @ducatiman for for carburetor needs.

Your initial setting should be 3 full turns out from the bottom, remember just slightly tighten them, don't go all Conan on them.



Then warm it up, slowly turn 1 side pilot screw in until the rpms drop, then back out till RPM's peak (and no further)* Twist throttle...see how it reacts...tweak to taste.
Repeat on other side... test ride. You're looking for best throttle response and transition from just cracked to 1/4 throttle opening or so.*

Thats a quickie, 10 cent tutorial on setting pilot screws.**

You can sync with the carbs in hand. Back the idle adjustment off to close that carb then match the second carb to it with the sync screw. You can then turn the idle adjustment up while using a thin feeler gauge (maybe .002") between the throttle plate and the throttle bore, adjust to just fit, and then check the second one and adjust to match. If you have good feel for this it will run fine once installed.

It would do folks well to take a minute to review and understand what a sync tool does, how it works. And take another minute to look at the carb linkage and sync adjustments available to fix irregularities that might occur. It can help take some of the mystery out of this as well as stop unnecessary carb sync screwups.

Meaning, that the carbs were right once, the butterflies were matched and it performed well, but then changed. Undecided And the problem somehow occurred in the butterfly direct shafts, or the sync screw turned or wore that pad that it rests on, or the carburetor pairing/ bridging brackets twisted in relation to each other, and enough so that the butterflies no longer operated in sync, such that performance noticeably suffered. And a fix will be accomplished by changing the butterfly position, the only thing the sync adjustment does. Hmmm. Really? Undecided

Meanwhile, the tool measures vacuum at each individual runner. That's all it does, how it works. And vacuum is effected by a huge list of things, butterfly position being only one of them, and the only one addressed with that tool while turning those sync screws. The rest of that list includes, valve adjustment, jetting, float level, compression differences between cylinders caused by wear as well as factory CC differences in the head, intake runner, as well as flow by port variations, etc. Variations in cams, wear or factory tolerance. Then there's the potential big one, pilot jets and pilot screw mixture settings. All of those effect the vacuum and will be read by the sync tool, accurately identifyng the difference that exists, and with the only adjustment being used to "correct" the problem, move the butterfly relationship, one to the next.

It's that clear understanding that has me of the opinion and long time practice to not touch the sync screws on a set of carbs that were right once and were never dismantled from the rack. And jet cleaning as well as float needle changing doesn't require that they be dismantled. And further, if I DID dismantle a set of carbs, I just matched the butterflies on the bench at assembly, using a feeler gauge, and then never touched them again, never gave them another thought.

That method, properly executed, will have THAT portion of the complete equation, balanced flow to each cylinder in a multi-cylinder/ carb application due to butterfly position, satisfied entirely adequately. And in fact, it has worked for me every time I've done it on every bike (as well as individual runner/ butterfly V-8 intakes, all eight) that I've ever owned or any that I've fixed for others. And the times I fixed for others was usually after an attempt by others to sync the carbs, chasing a problem, or sometimes not even chasing a problem, but one they created wth a sync tool, chasing a problem from that list, that was never a butterfly position change problem. Those linkages are so direct and simple that they don't know how to screw themselves up. Not enough to care about.

I'm sure this will start a lot of controversy so I won't argue it, just offering it for those who understand the whole picture that I outlined and might make good use of it. It is what I've done, on every engine I ever worked on, including blue printed racing engines as well as regular old, high mileage street stuff. I've had at least four, four cylinder bikes with over 100,000 miles that ran quite well, the whole time, and never had a carb sync performed. When they did finally get a total disassembly, this is how I set them up, on the bench. Over the years I've straightened out at least a half dozen messed up ones, probably more, and on the bench, after fixing the original problem which was fouled pilot jets.

I only posted this because it seems like its coming up fairly often, especially with problems from a sync gone bad. One I would suggest was never a sync problem to begin with. A big or sudden change in performance is NEVER a sync problem. NEVER. Remember that. Cool If there is a problem, and you connect the gauges? YES, there will definitely be an imbalance indicated. But because that hole has a problem that is from the rest of the list. A bad plug, a plugged pilot jet, a screwed up float, a bad valve or setting, etc. Every one of them effecting the vacuum in the intake but NOT from a sudden move of a butterfly position, a sync adjustment.

[rojoracing53]

I guess I should have mentioned the spring I measured was out of my 2009 250. From the sounds of it, you guys could also just pop in a newer gen 250 OEM spring and heat nearly twice the load seeing as the wire thickness is double.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I guess I should have mentioned the spring I measured was out of my 2009 250. From the sounds of it, you guys could also just pop in a newer gen 250 OEM spring and heat nearly twice the load seeing as the wire thickness is double.

Now that's interesting, I'll have to check that out as well.

I did purchase a Blue Magic Spring from a forum member, so when I get it I'll update with the measurements, and ride test.

[Ghostt]

So I checked the part# for 2009 Ninjette spring, and here's what Partzilla had to say

This Kawasaki 92144-1580 SPRING is used on these models and components:

1991 EL250-E1 Eliminator 250 GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1991 ZR750-C1 Zephyr 750 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1992 EL250-E2 Eliminator 250 GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1992 EX250-F6 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1992 ZR750-C2 Zephyr 750 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1993 EL250-E3 Eliminator 250 GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1993 EX250-F7 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1993 ZR750-C3 Zephyr 750 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
1994 EL250-E4 Eliminator 250 GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1994 EX250-F8 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1995 EX250-F9 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1996 EX250-F10 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1997 EX250-F11 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1998 EX250-F12 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
1999 EX250-F13 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2000 EX250-F14 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2000 ZR750-F2 ZR-7 GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2001 EX250-F15 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2001 ZR750-H1 ZR-7S GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2002 EX250-F16 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2002 ZR750-H2 ZR-7S GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2003 EX250-F17 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2003 ZR750-H3 ZR-7S GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2004 EX250-F18 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2004 ZR750-H4 CANADA ONLY GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2005 EX250-F19 Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2005 ZR750-H5 CANADA ONLY GEAR CHANGE MECHANISM
2006 EX250F6F Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2007 EX250F7F Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2008 EX250J8F Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2009 EX250J9F Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2009 EX250J9FA Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2010 EX250JAF Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2010 EX250JAFA Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2011 EX250JBF Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2011 EX250JBFA Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2012 EX250JCF Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)
2012 EX250JCFA Ninja 250R GEAR CHANGE DRUM-SHIFT FORK(S)

Very strange as it's the same part# for PreGen Ninjette, so I'm confused about your measurements @rojoracing53 ?

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

So I checked the part# for 2009 Ninjette spring, and here's what Partzilla had to say


Very strange as it's the same part# for PreGen Ninjette, so I'm confused about your measurements @rojoracing53 ?

You don't have to worry about my measurements. Using micrometers and calipers to measure thousands of an inch is what I do all day. In your post with your measurements you stated 0.7mm(0.02") but if it's truly 0.7mm then multiply that by .03937 and you get 0.028" which is a lot closer to my 0.40".

Can I assume your measuring with metrics and calculating you inch equivalents?

Ether way what your measuring seem much lighter then what I have in my bike. I bought my bike with 1500 miles on it from the original owner but he didn't mess around with any engine mods so I doubt he'd have changed the spring.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

You don't have to worry about my measurements. Using micrometers and calipers to measure thousands of an inch is what I do all day. In your post with your measurements you stated 0.7mm(0.02") but if it's truly 0.7mm then multiply that by .03937 and you get 0.028" which is a lot closer to my 0.40".

Can I assume your measuring with metrics and calculating you inch equivalents?

Ether way what your measuring seem much lighter then what I have in my bike. I bought my bike with 1500 miles on it from the original owner but he didn't mess around with any engine mods so I doubt he'd have changed the spring.

Definitely a possibility, as mine is a cheaper one, than a professional caliper.

But the 92081-112 SPRING is definitely thicker, longer, and stiffer, even if my measurements are off, the difference between the two are measurable.

[AwDang]

a freshly openend blue magic spring, whicjh isn't really blue by the way.
Measures;
free length 35.5mm
OD 7.8mm
ID 5.5mm
wire dia 1.12

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by AwDang

a freshly openend blue magic spring, whicjh isn't really blue by the way.
Measures;
free length 35.5mm(1.400")
OD 7.8mm(.307")
ID 5.5mm
wire dia 1.12mm(0.044")

This definitely a bit stiffer then my 2009 OEM spring and with quick a bit more preload to boot.

[rojoracing53]

Ok so who wants springs
They only came in packs of 5 so I have .40" thick to match my OEM 2009 spring and .48" which is about twice as stiff. I'll just cut them to length and make as many as I want.

[Ghostt]

Okay I'm in on the 48

[rojoracing53]

Initial impression shifting with the .048" at 1.25" long is damn this thing is stiff. Let's just say you couldn't use anything but proper riding boots to pull up on the shifter because your going to need the leather and armor with how much pressure your going to need to get it to shift. The trans on my bike has always left much to be desired in the smoothness department so I'm not sure how well this is going to jive with its clunkiness. Going to test ride it home in a little bit.

[rojoracing53]

Ok so I don't like the 0.048 spring at 1.25" and I doubt shortening it .125" is going to help much. It just to damn hard to push the shift lever for my liking. I do have aftermarket rearsets and I've shortened the throw of the shift lever which reduces leverage but make for a shorter movement to shift. Maybe someone with stock rearsets wouldn't find it so hard to shift. I'm going to cut a 1.125" spring out of the 0.040" coil and compare the feel to my OEM spring. If I do mail these to anyone I'll probably include a few so you can test which one you like the best. It's a quick job to change the spring but it a tight fit for your hand so it best done when the motor isn't hot.

[Ghostt]

Measurements of Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring

Okay it arrived today, thank you @DCMoney so on to the measurements,

Length=35.1MM
I.D.=5.4mm
O.D.=7.9
Wire diameter=0.9MM

Pinch test, noticeable a little bit stiffer compared to the 92081-112 SPRING.

Will do a ride report after my ride tonight, so stay tuned.....


Picture below:
Left=92081-112 SPRING
Right=Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring

[Ghostt]

Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring Ride Report:

Well it's definitely stiffer than the 92081-112 SPRING, perhaps too stiff for my liking. It does for sure make a positive shifts, but in traffic it's a bit of a PITA.

I know what you thinking, man up well that's not the case, it a matter of riding comfort.

Personally I'm going back to the 92081-112 SPRING, it was noticeable stiffer, but not overly stiff.

My final word on this subject is if your looking to stiffen up the shifts, then the 92081-112 SPRING is the cheap answer.

[dcj13]

Thanks for the good, honest assessment.

[Ghostt]

My pleasure, I'm sure for most riders the 92081-112 SPRING, will be enough of a difference, but yet not overkill.

It helps tighten things up just enough, IMHO the Blue Magic Spring is a bit too much for the everyday rider, I can see it for track use.

[Somchai]

Thanks again, Scott

[sharky nrk]

did we ever decide if the factory "upgrade" spring was stiffer than the OEM newgen spring? I read back a few posts but there was some measurement "questions" that muddied the water a bit.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

did we ever decide if the factory "upgrade" spring was stiffer than the OEM newgen spring? I read back a few posts but there was some measurement "questions" that muddied the water a bit.

Unfortunately not yet, although maybe the upgrade OEM spring is a replacement for PreGen, if you look up the part number, it fits both PreGen and NewGen Ninjette.

Try to contact @rojoracing53 he might send you some of his springs to try out, or order the upgrade OEM spring and give it a try yourself, it's only a few dollars.

[Skullz]

I bought one on ebay and it is exactly the same as the new gen.
i was hoping it was longer or a thicker wire, but that was not the case.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Skullz

I bought one on ebay and it is exactly the same as the new gen.
i was hoping it was longer or a thicker wire, but that was not the case.

Looks like I might be right about the spring being for the PreGen

[corksil]

Can anyone post a schematic diagram of the spring in question and it's placement on the engine?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by corksil

Can anyone post a schematic diagram of the spring in question and it's placement on the engine?

Certainly,




The spring is # 92144



Hope this helps, if not let me know

[Kestrel]

Hi all,

First post for me. Had an EX250 long, long ago as a first bike. Recently purchased another one which will get tires & battery this weekend, then serve as a commuter next week.

Few things I wanted to clear up in this thread... For what it's worth, I'm an applied physics phd grad student, so take that however you will.

Hooke's Law generally describes spring force (F), which scales F = kx, where k is the spring rate, and x is the displacement from the natural length of the spring. (Since coil springs are torsional springs, we really need to talk about the angular form of Hooke's law, where torque T = k*theta, k being the constant, and theta representing the angular displacement... but F = kx will work for now.)

I see the pre-load misconception quite often, and it does need some clarification. Whereas the rate of a preloaded spring does not change, the force applied is generally higher than that of a non-preloaded spring. Let's illustrate with a quick visual.

You all recall the formula for a line, don't you? Good old Y = mx + b, where m is the slope, and b serves as the y intercept at x=0. Spring force generally scales the same way, and it's important to understand that while the rate doesn't change, you are essentially changing the y intercept for the spring. In reality, this does translate into a higher overall force applied, assuming the same displacement (stock spring vs preloaded spring w/ shim).



Let the Y axis represent force, and the X axis represent some given spring displacement. When you pre-load a spring, you're essentially 'changing the zero'.. Yes, you will get higher force for a given displacement versus a non-preloaded spring, up to a limit, which is generally when the spring coils bind and it can no longer compress. Both springs will ideally exhibit maximum force prior to coil bind. Assuming the same spring with the same rate, one preloaded and one not, then they'll both exhibit the same force prior to coil bind. The real question is... do we ever approach coil bind?

In reality, the shift springs in these bikes are probably not compressed to the limits of coil bind. Thus, for any given displacement, a preloaded spring will exhibit more force. Fork springs work the same way - there has been a poor misconception flying around the web lately that the rate doesn't change, and thus it does you no good. While no, the rate does not change, you are in fact starting the spring in an area where it will exert more force due to its preloaded nature. If a rider never came close to binding the coils but still wanted a stiffer spring, shimming or preloading would help. That said, when we ride we apply forces, not necessarily specific compression displacements to the spring, so the situation is a little more complex.

TL/DR: A gentle preload WILL make a spring stiffer (exert more force) for a given displacement versus a spring which starts at its natural length.


As long as we don't approach coil bind, this will hold true. Once the spring is totally compressed and the coils approach the binding point, then both springs would have exerted the same force. By preloading, we start off stiffer, but give ourselves less travel. If the springs would bottom out and coils bind, this does us no good. If the springs wouldn't normally reach coil bind, then preloading can yield stiffer operation.

Lastly...

If somebody can send me that spring, we have equipment in the lab that will easily measure spring rate, and give a nice data plot. Ironically, I worked as a lab TA this semester for a basic undergraduate physics course. Students measured the spring constants for a variety of springs.

[csmith12]

Welcome Patrick!

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Welcome Patrick!

Thanks!



Started on an '05 250, and progressed through an SV650, XR250L, VFR800, DR350. Finally back to the just purchased Ninja, which currently shares the garage with the DR. Come hell or high water, it'll be on the road by the end of this weekend.

[SLOWn60]

Sorry @Kestrel; I can only remember 2 math formulas. I guess because they both influence so much of my life!

#1 is: How many motorcycles is the correct number to own= n+1
Where n= the number I currently own.

#2 is really #1 (read through and you will soon understand):

+1 / -1

It appears no one has formally documented this formula. Everyone knows about it, but no one really talks about it. I didn't really understand it until just recently. Turns out it resides in an unwritten handbook that only Significant Others hold as a tightly guarded secret.

It explains more about motorcycling than we will probably ever truly comprehend. After lifting the veil of secrecy, I think it's time that we all know the true nature of this formula, and it's devastating impact on our sport.

First rule of this mysterious formula is: the +1 can never be more than +1. It can't be +2, +3, +5 or even +10. Yes Stunters, that means you.

Second rule: The -1 can be any minus number. It can be -100, but for practical application it appears the acceptable limit is -10.

Now that we know the limitations of the +/- formula, here's how it applies using a few real world examples that we can all relate to:

It's Saturday, you already have approval from your S.O. for a day-ride on Sunday, but you are secretly texting your riding buddies about extending the day to include a burrito dinner stop stateside (remember; I'm ) before coming home.

You are in a dilemna, do you disclose the plan and risk the stink-eye (and everything else that goes along with it) and ruin the rest of the day, surely resulting in the day ending in a -10. Or, do you keep it to yourself and do something special for your S.O. today, get +1 (remember, +1 is the max each day), and use that +1 on Sunday when you text them that you will be out for dinner?

How the rules apply:

First, there is no carry-over from one day to the next. Each day you start at zero (or less). So get that into your thick head.

You are better off to take all the minus points today, even at the risk that those carry over to the next day. Time itself will cause the ink to fade on some of these very large minus numbers. But don't be fooled, the ink never fades entirely.

The magnitude of what you do to earn a +1 has no bearing whatsoever on this system. Telling your S.O. you love them out of the blue in a special moment, offering to detail their car for 2 hours, driving all the way to Gravity & Pope to return their $600 pair of boots, driving out to Merrit (twice) with the family to get the dog of their dreams, whisking them off to Maui for 10 days, etc. They are all only worth +1. Doing more than one in a given 24 hour period will net you, you guessed it, a max of +1.

You need to plan accordingly, and spread your efforts out over time, and invest only where needed. Being +1 on the day is absolute VICTORY!.

Unfortunately, the magnitude of what you do (or fail to do, or fail to do as expected) does have a bearing on the scale of the minus system. As noted above, -10 is teh accepted daily maximum. There are exceptions (no one will ever really know what these are), and unlike the plus system, these can carry over to the next day/week/month/year.......pretty much forever. This is why grovelling was invented.

Couple Other Observations:

I learned that +1's are not transferable between families, In other words, doing something special for a friend's S.O. has no impact on your own system. Even if the two S.O's are fully aware and joint acknowledge and accept the good deed, and even though they are fully capable of transferring the credit, they never will. The +1 will also never get credited to your friend. It's like throwing money away. The only value in these types of deeds is to get +1 with your friend's S.O., but the system is so complicated as it is, and this cross-family flow of currency is so corrupt, the exchange rates terrible, I highly recommend you refrain from this. If you do feel compelled, keep it simple, like tell them how nice their new shoes are, and keep it at that.

Try and defer your efforts to get +1 to later in the day. Yes, you will have less time enjoy being +1, but the odds of you getting -1's thoughout the day are significantly higher, so using it early means you risk an immediate correction with a -1 that was already locked and loaded and waiting to be fired. This is a tough decision and I don't really know what the consensus is here. I usually wait until at least noon to try and get a gauge on the day then put my plan in place. If I am already -3 by lunch, pffft, forget it, I'll keep it until tomorrow. What's the difference between going to bed at -5 and -6? I have also found it best to do a few subtle tests to get a better feel on how well it might be received. This way I won't waste my one chance.

+1's most certainly cannot be banked for long periods of time. They cannot be frozen like sperm to be re-used when convenient. Let's say you like to ride every Sunday for 6 months in the summer. That's 24 weekend days you are not with your S.O. and/or family. One would think that if the same consideration were given to your S.O. in the off season (ie: they take pole dancing lessons every Sunday for 6 months) that that somehow works out to be even. If you even remotely believe this, then you are completely lost, and you will need more help than anything that this thread can offer with the replies that ensue.

Good Karma:
In the old days I could plagiarize with impunity! Unfortunately now; I must give credit where credit is due: CoolDaddyGroove, a moderator on BCSportbike, posted the +1/-1 doctrine back in 2012. It has proven far less theoretical than E=m(c*c)!

....HEY! I know 3 math equations!!!

p.s.: Welcome Patrick!

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

#1 is: How many motorcycles is the correct number to own= n+1
Where n= the number I currently own.

I understood everything up until this point, and I agree with you...

... But after that, you lost me!

Though seriously - if somebody wants to volunteer to send me those springs, I'll get some nice quantifiable data so we can stop guessing. I suspect 92081-112 is the budget answer for most people, but it would still be nice to see the actual spring rate.

Furthermore... It wouldn't be too difficult to figure out how far the springs are being compressed when installed, either. Approximate with a caliper, adjust for any offset of the 'plug' the spring sits within, and crunch the numbers. Because of the slight variation in spring length between the OEM, the other OEM option (112), and the Factory Spring, it does make a difference. Rate is one thing, but it doesn't mean much unless we know how much each spring is actually pushing at the installed position due to preload.

[dcj13]

Welcome, Patrick! And, finally, someone who understands the nature of springs, force, and spring rates. Good job!

With respect to # of motorcycles...
3 was one too many for me: 2 is just right.