How much popping? (and exhaust leak)

singlecoillover · April 14th, 2011, 07:33 AM

How much popping should I expect with 2-bros slip on when I decelerate, and what exactly does the popping mean? Is this indicative of a rich mixture? My bike likes to pop a LOT when I decelerate. Not just one or two pops, but repeated, if i touch the throttle right going down a hill I can do it nonstop the whole way down. I'm thinking about removing the snorkel to make it run leaner and balance the mixture.

Mods: 2bros slip on, shimmed needles (2 #4 washers under each needle)

Also, I picked up some high temp RTV silicone to seal my exhaust where the header meets the slip tube. I could use some tips on how exactly to seal it without making a huge mess.

Thanks much!

Cuongism · April 14th, 2011, 07:38 AM

Do you still have your Kleen air system installed? Adding a full system results in the popping, so maybe it affects a slip-on as well?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9948

Also, adding a slip-on results in less back exhaust pressure and more free flowing air so more likely lean than rich. Have you tried 3 washers (usually what's recommended with slip-ons).

singlecoillover · April 14th, 2011, 07:58 AM

Thanks for the link. I hadn't read up on that one.

In answer to your question, I do still have it installed. I may try to plug it and see if I like the change before I remove the whole business. The popping doesn't necessarily bother me so much. I really just want to know if it's a sign of a condition that needs addressed. (ie: rich/lean)

Haven't tried 3. I wanted to start conservatively. Also with as bad as the MPG is on my bike I'm not sure I want to make it richer.

nattygirl · April 14th, 2011, 10:52 AM

I have your exact same setup and I have alot of popping going on as well. To me, it's embarrassing and quite annoying. I'm interested to see what helps you out. I was considering just rejetting the bike, but I'm waiting on that for now.

Mine also loudly backfires sometimes on startup, but never while riding. Do you experience that at all?

2Bros with 2 washers under each needle.

kkim · April 14th, 2011, 10:57 AM

remove the Kleen system, as mentioned.

singlecoillover · April 14th, 2011, 05:50 PM

Mine doesn't backfire on startup. Just pops when decelerating, going down hills, etc...

kkim · April 14th, 2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecoillover

Mine doesn't backfire on startup. Just pops when decelerating, going down hills, etc...

so, exactly what didn't you understand in the link that was posted?

singlecoillover · April 14th, 2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

so, exactly what didn't you understand in the link that was posted?

Ouch!

You guys will have to forgive me. I'm not terribly good at forum conversation. This is why I spend a lot of time lurking and not much time posting.

If I mis-communicated something then I apologize.

I read the DIY, (thanks again to Cuongism for linking that) and I think it answered my question. The popping doesn't necessarily mean that my bike is rich or lean. It's just a by-product of the kleen air system being combined with an aftermarket pipe. (Unless I totally missed something...which is completely possible.)

Of course like I said in a previous post I don't necessarily want to rid myself of the noise, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't indicating a problem.

My last post was merely a response to nattygirl's question.

kkim · April 14th, 2011, 07:27 PM

sorry, Barak. I just assumed you might have misinterpreted my answer of removing the Kleen system and confusing it with Natty's post. It is your choice, if the backfiring doesn't bother you... it just bugged the hell out of me until i found the solution.

my guess is that the exhaust mixture is lean due to the Kleen system injecting air during off throttle conditions, which leads to the popping.

singlecoillover · April 14th, 2011, 07:45 PM

It's all good.

It does read like I was making a nonsensical reply to you, lol.

I had always thought that the popping was unburnt fuel cooking off in the exhaust system, but apparently that's not the case. I guess the intake(?) mixture really has little to do with the mixture in the exhaust system.

kkim · April 14th, 2011, 08:18 PM

well, it's just my opinion on why it's popping and my understanding on how the Kleen system works. As far as too rich or too lean, backfire and/or popping can be caused by both and is really hard to troubleshoot. All I know is, when an aftermarket exhaust is added to this bike, popping occurs during decel. removing the Kleen system eliminates it.

nattygirl · April 15th, 2011, 11:33 AM

Sorry for the confusion

I didn't want to have to take apart my bike again, but sounds like I'm going to have to give this a try. Cheaper than having a jet kit installed.

So I found this block off plate kit on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I bought it and am hoping the plate will fit our bike fine. From what I've read, the plates are the same sizes. I have a question though, this kit comes with a plug. Is this plug supposed to be used to block off this end? I hope so.

nelly07 · April 15th, 2011, 11:49 PM

Did you get a chance to seal your exhaust? I have a two bros slip on as well and a have a slight leak. I don't think its in the connection tho. it feels like there is a small hole on the lip of the stock pipe

singlecoillover · April 16th, 2011, 05:29 AM

I haven't yet. I'm planning an attempt tomorrow evening. The method I'm probably going to try is to put a medium sized bead of silicone around the stock pipe, slide the aftermarket on carefully, clean up any excess, clamp tight and then clean again. Not sure if this is the best way...I guess we'll see.

nelly07 · April 16th, 2011, 05:44 AM

Let me know if that works. I need to figure something out for mine. Is it hurting it to drive it with the leak?

Good Luck!!

nattygirl · May 2nd, 2011, 07:45 PM

Just wanted to give you an update on my two bros...

I took the Ninja out for a little ride today and all I got to say is "Wow!". I went from two to three washers in my carbs, removed the Kleen air system, and removed the snorkel. My bike feels so much better. The throttle response in first gear is dramatically improved, even from just the two washers. My exhaust did still pop a bit, but nothing like it did before. I definitely like the sound alot better. Kinda wish that maybe I would have left the snorkel in. You can tell how it effects the sound of the bike, but I'm not about to put it back in, so I guess I'm just going to have to deal with it.

KKIM... you're the man!

kkim · May 2nd, 2011, 07:50 PM

Nat,

if you're still getting some popping, make sure the slipon to pipe connection is tight and no air/exhaust gas is leaking from that joint.

glad to hear the bike is running better.

nattygirl · May 2nd, 2011, 10:56 PM

What do you recommend I use to prevent leaks? I have noticed water come out from where the slipon attaches to the stock pipe, so I'm assuming that's probably where the leak is. Would some type of silicone lubricant work? I have this at home. Would this work? Says it "forms a resilient, tough, waterproof seal which resists vibration and extreme temperatures. Bonds to glass, metal, wood, plastic, concrete, and rubber."

kkim · May 2nd, 2011, 11:01 PM

I'd recommend using a high temp RTV... usually called "red" RTV.

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 07:33 PM

So if theres popping on decel on a full system then there might be an air leak? I removed the kleen air already.

And how would you describe the sound? Maybe I'm still not used to how loud the exhaust it

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 07:41 PM

if you're sure you have the kleen system removed correctly, then yes, the next place I'd look for decel popping is an exhaust leak. Did you use new exhaust gaskets and torque the nuts to spec?

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

if you're sure you have the kleen system removed correctly, then yes, the next place I'd look for decel popping is an exhaust leak. Did you use new exhaust gaskets and torque the nuts to spec?

Yup even used a torque wrench

I think it may all be in my head

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Yup even used a torque wrench

I think it may all be in my head

your head pops on decel?

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

your head pops on decel?

Lol Is that what that noise is?!

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 07:53 PM

from the kleen system removal DIY...

If, however, you have installed an aftermarket full system on your bike and have no catalytic converters to deal with, you may want to consider this mod. I have installed an Area P quiet core system and ever since I have installed it, I was getting popping and backfiring at very small throttle openings around town and on downhill decel throttle settings.

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

from the kleen system removal DIY...

If, however, you have installed an aftermarket full system on your bike and have no catalytic converters to deal with, you may want to consider this mod. I have installed an Area P quiet core system and ever since I have installed it, I was getting popping and backfiring at very small throttle openings around town and on downhill decel throttle settings.

Wait? What is This mod?

The kleen removal?

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Wait? What is This mod?

The kleen removal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

I removed the kleen air already.

well, have you removed it or not?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9948

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

from the kleen system removal DIY...

If, however, you have installed an aftermarket full system on your bike and have no catalytic converters to deal with, you may want to consider this mod. I have installed an Area P quiet core system and ever since I have installed it, I was getting popping and backfiring at very small throttle openings around town and on downhill decel throttle settings.

When i meant this I was referring to what I bolded

(Ohh! Oh wow, I just read it wrong, no I get it, this mod referring to the kleen air removal, lol oops)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

well, have you removed it or not?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9948

Yup its removed

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 08:30 PM

okay, so does your bike pop on decel or not?

Kevin2109 · May 30th, 2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

okay, so does your bike pop on decel or not?

Honestly I dont know, I'm not sure if im thinking that just decel is making the noise or if it really popping. Its so much louder then stock that I think I might just be thinking its popping

kkim · May 30th, 2011, 08:35 PM

okay... if you ever figure it out and is indeed popping, look for an exhaust leak at this point.

April 14th, 2011, 07:33 AM	#1
singlecoillover ninjette.org member Name: Barak Location: South-Central PA Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja EX250-J Special Edition Posts: 71	How much popping? (and exhaust leak) How much popping should I expect with 2-bros slip on when I decelerate, and what exactly does the popping mean? Is this indicative of a rich mixture? My bike likes to pop a LOT when I decelerate. Not just one or two pops, but repeated, if i touch the throttle right going down a hill I can do it nonstop the whole way down. I'm thinking about removing the snorkel to make it run leaner and balance the mixture. Mods: 2bros slip on, shimmed needles (2 #4 washers under each needle) Also, I picked up some high temp RTV silicone to seal my exhaust where the header meets the slip tube. I could use some tips on how exactly to seal it without making a huge mess. Thanks much!

April 15th, 2011, 11:33 AM	#12
nattygirl ninjette.org guru Name: Natalie Location: La Puente, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 Special Edition Red/Black Posts: 455	Sorry for the confusion I didn't want to have to take apart my bike again, but sounds like I'm going to have to give this a try. Cheaper than having a jet kit installed. So I found this block off plate kit on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT I bought it and am hoping the plate will fit our bike fine. From what I've read, the plates are the same sizes. I have a question though, this kit comes with a plug. Is this plug supposed to be used to block off this end? I hope so. __________________________________________________ '10 Ninja 250R SE Red/Blk Mods: Projekt D FE, Protons, HB Blk Windscreen, HIDs, TBR Blk Series Slip-On, Shogun Sliders, Solo Cowl, Integrated Tail Light, Gls Blk Rear Fender, Red Accents

May 2nd, 2011, 07:45 PM	#16
nattygirl ninjette.org guru Name: Natalie Location: La Puente, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 Special Edition Red/Black Posts: 455	Just wanted to give you an update on my two bros... I took the Ninja out for a little ride today and all I got to say is "Wow!". I went from two to three washers in my carbs, removed the Kleen air system, and removed the snorkel. My bike feels so much better. The throttle response in first gear is dramatically improved, even from just the two washers. My exhaust did still pop a bit, but nothing like it did before. I definitely like the sound alot better. Kinda wish that maybe I would have left the snorkel in. You can tell how it effects the sound of the bike, but I'm not about to put it back in, so I guess I'm just going to have to deal with it. KKIM... you're the man! __________________________________________________ '10 Ninja 250R SE Red/Blk Mods: Projekt D FE, Protons, HB Blk Windscreen, HIDs, TBR Blk Series Slip-On, Shogun Sliders, Solo Cowl, Integrated Tail Light, Gls Blk Rear Fender, Red Accents

May 2nd, 2011, 10:56 PM	#18
nattygirl ninjette.org guru Name: Natalie Location: La Puente, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 Special Edition Red/Black Posts: 455	What do you recommend I use to prevent leaks? I have noticed water come out from where the slipon attaches to the stock pipe, so I'm assuming that's probably where the leak is. Would some type of silicone lubricant work? I have this at home. Would this work? Says it "forms a resilient, tough, waterproof seal which resists vibration and extreme temperatures. Bonds to glass, metal, wood, plastic, concrete, and rubber." __________________________________________________ '10 Ninja 250R SE Red/Blk Mods: Projekt D FE, Protons, HB Blk Windscreen, HIDs, TBR Blk Series Slip-On, Shogun Sliders, Solo Cowl, Integrated Tail Light, Gls Blk Rear Fender, Red Accents

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April 14th, 2011, 07:38 AM	#2
Cuongism ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cuong Location: San Diego Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r, 2007 Daytona 675 Posts: A lot.	Do you still have your Kleen air system installed? Adding a full system results in the popping, so maybe it affects a slip-on as well? http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9948 Also, adding a slip-on results in less back exhaust pressure and more free flowing air so more likely lean than rich. Have you tried 3 washers (usually what's recommended with slip-ons).

April 14th, 2011, 07:58 AM	#3
singlecoillover ninjette.org member Name: Barak Location: South-Central PA Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja EX250-J Special Edition Posts: 71	Thanks for the link. I hadn't read up on that one. In answer to your question, I do still have it installed. I may try to plug it and see if I like the change before I remove the whole business. The popping doesn't necessarily bother me so much. I really just want to know if it's a sign of a condition that needs addressed. (ie: rich/lean) Haven't tried 3. I wanted to start conservatively. Also with as bad as the MPG is on my bike I'm not sure I want to make it richer.

April 14th, 2011, 10:52 AM	#4
nattygirl ninjette.org guru Name: Natalie Location: La Puente, CA Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 Special Edition Red/Black Posts: 455	I have your exact same setup and I have alot of popping going on as well. To me, it's embarrassing and quite annoying. I'm interested to see what helps you out. I was considering just rejetting the bike, but I'm waiting on that for now. Mine also loudly backfires sometimes on startup, but never while riding. Do you experience that at all? 2Bros with 2 washers under each needle. __________________________________________________ '10 Ninja 250R SE Red/Blk Mods: Projekt D FE, Protons, HB Blk Windscreen, HIDs, TBR Blk Series Slip-On, Shogun Sliders, Solo Cowl, Integrated Tail Light, Gls Blk Rear Fender, Red Accents

April 14th, 2011, 10:57 AM	#5
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	remove the Kleen system, as mentioned.

April 14th, 2011, 05:50 PM	#6
singlecoillover ninjette.org member Name: Barak Location: South-Central PA Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja EX250-J Special Edition Posts: 71	Mine doesn't backfire on startup. Just pops when decelerating, going down hills, etc...

April 14th, 2011, 07:27 PM	#9
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sorry, Barak. I just assumed you might have misinterpreted my answer of removing the Kleen system and confusing it with Natty's post. It is your choice, if the backfiring doesn't bother you... it just bugged the hell out of me until i found the solution. my guess is that the exhaust mixture is lean due to the Kleen system injecting air during off throttle conditions, which leads to the popping.

April 14th, 2011, 07:45 PM	#10
singlecoillover ninjette.org member Name: Barak Location: South-Central PA Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja EX250-J Special Edition Posts: 71	It's all good. It does read like I was making a nonsensical reply to you, lol. I had always thought that the popping was unburnt fuel cooking off in the exhaust system, but apparently that's not the case. I guess the intake(?) mixture really has little to do with the mixture in the exhaust system.

April 14th, 2011, 08:18 PM	#11
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	well, it's just my opinion on why it's popping and my understanding on how the Kleen system works. As far as too rich or too lean, backfire and/or popping can be caused by both and is really hard to troubleshoot. All I know is, when an aftermarket exhaust is added to this bike, popping occurs during decel. removing the Kleen system eliminates it.

April 15th, 2011, 11:49 PM	#13
nelly07 ninjette.org member Name: Steve Location: Worthington, Ohio Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 31	Did you get a chance to seal your exhaust? I have a two bros slip on as well and a have a slight leak. I don't think its in the connection tho. it feels like there is a small hole on the lip of the stock pipe

April 16th, 2011, 05:29 AM	#14
singlecoillover ninjette.org member Name: Barak Location: South-Central PA Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja EX250-J Special Edition Posts: 71	I haven't yet. I'm planning an attempt tomorrow evening. The method I'm probably going to try is to put a medium sized bead of silicone around the stock pipe, slide the aftermarket on carefully, clean up any excess, clamp tight and then clean again. Not sure if this is the best way...I guess we'll see.

April 16th, 2011, 05:44 AM	#15
nelly07 ninjette.org member Name: Steve Location: Worthington, Ohio Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 31	Let me know if that works. I need to figure something out for mine. Is it hurting it to drive it with the leak? Good Luck!!

May 2nd, 2011, 07:50 PM	#17
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Nat, if you're still getting some popping, make sure the slipon to pipe connection is tight and no air/exhaust gas is leaking from that joint. glad to hear the bike is running better.

May 2nd, 2011, 11:01 PM	#19
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	I'd recommend using a high temp RTV... usually called "red" RTV.

May 30th, 2011, 07:33 PM	#20
Kevin2109 KThanksBye Name: Kevin Location: Orange County Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.	So if theres popping on decel on a full system then there might be an air leak? I removed the kleen air already. And how would you describe the sound? Maybe I'm still not used to how loud the exhaust it

May 30th, 2011, 07:41 PM	#21
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if you're sure you have the kleen system removed correctly, then yes, the next place I'd look for decel popping is an exhaust leak. Did you use new exhaust gaskets and torque the nuts to spec?

May 30th, 2011, 07:53 PM	#25
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	from the kleen system removal DIY... If, however, you have installed an aftermarket full system on your bike and have no catalytic converters to deal with, you may want to consider this mod. I have installed an Area P quiet core system and ever since I have installed it, I was getting popping and backfiring at very small throttle openings around town and on downhill decel throttle settings.

May 30th, 2011, 08:30 PM	#29
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	okay, so does your bike pop on decel or not?

May 30th, 2011, 08:35 PM	#31
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	okay... if you ever figure it out and is indeed popping, look for an exhaust leak at this point.