Motorcyclist shot by Ohio cop

[Tigerpaw]

Sorry if this is a repost. Didn't see it anywhere. Too important not to mention though.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?se...cal&id=7433661

Watch the "RAW Video" option. This is disgusting.

If you follow the local Ohio news, the cop was found guilty. Haven't heard the sentence yet.

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by Tigerpaw

Sorry if this is a repost. Didn't see it anywhere. Too important not to mention though.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?se...cal&id=7433661

Watch the "RAW Video" option. This is disgusting.

If you follow the local Ohio news, the cop was found guilty. Haven't heard the sentence yet.

The minute the inmate population finds out he's a cop, no sentence is too short.

[Alex]

Link to original page on YouTube.

He was found guilty:

Link

Sentencing on June 21st, could get up to 11 years.

[kevlarorc]

that makes me really angry.
that lawyer or whatever he is at the end pisses me off too. looks like he still had his left hand on the clutch. the lawyer suggests he should have put his hands up. Now that may be what should have happened but when you're pulled over in car do you automatically put your hands up or do you sit tight with your hands not leaving the wheel until the officer says what to do.

[Samer]

Good thing the camera was rolling. Cameras don't lie and they aren't biased. Good for catching bad guys. In this case, a pathetic excuse for a cop. However, it looks like the system is working and he's a goner. As far as I'm concerned, that guy gave up his right to wear the uniform or carry any weapon for the rest of his life.

[Lurkable]

Disgusting is the word.

What about the hands though? Why would you even be putting your hands up for a traffic stop? Poor kid, zero threatening action from the rider in that video.

[adri99an]

I thought animals were stupid.....People are stupid....

[ztrack157]

Why doesn't the cop just say I ****ed up?

[capt_bugaloo]

Wow! I normally would give the cop the benefit of the doubt, but the rider just looked over his shoulder and gets shot in the back at point-blank range. WTF!

I'm worried less about the cop and more about the rider. Here is an article with more details:
http://toledoblade.com/article/20100...50401/0/SPORTS
=========================================================

Article published May 15, 2010
Ottawa Hills policeman convicted of assault in shooting
Motorcyclist was hit in back, paralyzed

Thomas White was convicted of felonious assault in the shooting of motorcyclist Michael McCloskey, Jr., in a traffic stop.

Zoom | Photo Reprints
By JENNIFER FEEHAN
and CARL RYAN
BLADE STAFF WRITERS

A jury Friday night found an Ottawa Hills police officer guilty of felonious assault for shooting a motorcyclist in the back during a traffic stop.

The Lucas County Common Pleas Court jury reached its decision six hours after beginning deliberations in the case of Thomas White, 27, who was indicted on one count of felonious assault with a firearms specification for the May 23, 2009, shooting of Michael McCloskey, Jr.

Officer White, standing next to his attorney, Jerry Phillips, showed no emotion as the verdict was read.

Mr. McCloskey, who testified earlier in the week, was not in court when Officer White was found guilty.

The case went to the jury on the fifth day of the trial. A part-time police officer and dispatcher in Ottawa Hills, Officer White could be sentenced to 11 years in prison. Judge Gary Cook scheduled sentencing for 9 a.m. June 21.

Officer White's supporters exited the courtroom while journalists covering the trial were held back. Mr. Phillips, caught as he stepped into the elevator, waved away questions.

Mr. McCloskey, who was 24 at the time, was paralyzed from the waist down when he was shot once and the bullet struck his spine.

He and Aaron Snyder were riding their motorcycles on Indian Road when Officer White began following them and ultimately pulled them over at Central Avenue for alleged traffic violations.

Lucas County Assistant Prosecutor Jeff Lingo described the case as very difficult for him to handle as a former police officer and firearms instructor.

"I would say there are no winners. I believe the jury made the right decision," he said. "As I stated during the trial, this was not an indictment of police officers or a department. The officer is not a bad person in that he set out to commit a crime. He used force well in excess of what needed to be used in a situation."

Video taken by a dashboard camera about 2:15 a.m. showed Mr. McCloskey pull over his motorcycle and look back at the patrol car. When Mr. McCloskey again turns to look back, he is shot and he and the motorcycle fall over.

The officer then appears on the screen and has his gun drawn while the victim is on the ground. After a period, the officer and another man lift the motorcycle off of the victim.

Mr. Lingo said the video was the prosecution's strongest evidence.

Officer White said on the stand that he believed Mr. McCloskey was reaching for a weapon and that his life was in danger when he fired the single shot.

Mr. Lingo told the jury Mr. McCloskey was not fleeing and was not aggressive or threatening on the night in question, that even after he was shot, he politely asked Officer White, "Sir, I don't have a weapon. Will you please lift the bike off me?"

"There is no evidence Mike McCloskey appeared angry, that he was agitated, that he did anything to arouse the suspicions of the police officer," Mr. Lingo said. He contended Officer White had no justification for shooting a man for a traffic violation.

Mr. Phillips told jurors that it made no difference whether Mr. McCloskey had committed a traffic violation or a criminal violation, or whether he had a weapon. He said it made no difference whether Officer White's gunshot missed him, nicked him, or paralyzed him. "Michael McCloskey was shot because Officer White appropriately felt that either his life or the life of Officer [Christopher] Sargent was in danger at that moment," Mr. Phillips said, referring to another Ottawa Hills officer who responded to the scene.

"It's a split-second decision and in his opinion, as a trained police officer, justified," he said.

Mr. Phillips repeatedly reminded jurors that they could not consider what happened in the early morning hours of May 23, 2009 with the "20/20 vision of hindsight," but that they had to put themselves in the place of Officer White, considering only what he knew and saw and felt at that moment.

Mr. Lingo told the jury Officer White rushed to judgment, moved too quickly, and did not give Mr. McCloskey time to comply with his command after he stopped his motorcycle.

Mr. Lingo emphasized to the jury that the charge against Officer White should not be viewed as a blemish on law enforcement in general. "It is in fact a charge that resulted from the acts of a single police officer over a period of five minutes for which he acted alone and, the state feels, he should be held responsible," he said.

[Davidb1986]

This cop is a disgrace to the public service community!!! I say this as a public servant. I also have no issue with police officers as a few of my friends are police officers. In fact my shooting buddies at the shooting range are cops. This guy should have the book thrown at him and I know it's mean but I hope the inmate population does find out who he is.

[ScorpionNinja]

That cop needs to spend MIN of 20 YEARS in Prison! IMO

The biker didnt do anything wrong or look like pulling out a gun man.

Bikers cant "put both hands up in .5secs" like police want us too.

Cops need to realize we need to spend an extra few secs, pulling in the clutch lever and getting the bike INTO NEUTRAL, etc, before turning the bike OFF!


That cop needed to stand behind his door and tell the man to " TURN OFF YOUR BIKE THEN PUT YOUR HANDS UP!"


Worst case,If he did have a gun.... behind your door/squadcar aka "Cover", and the biker would have to torso twist alot to take AIM at the cop...

Or 2nd case scenerio, the biker just takes off... then you just take 1 step back into your squadcar and close your door, throw it in D and give chase while radio-ing in to base that ya have a 10-80!

[Davidb1986]

Originally Posted by ScorpionNinja

That cop needs to spend MIN of 20 YEARS in Prison! IMO

The biker didnt do anything wrong or look like pulling out a gun man.

Bikers cant "put both hands up in .5secs" like police want us too.

Cops need to realize we need to spend an extra few secs, pulling in the clutch lever and getting the bike INTO NEUTRAL, etc, before turning the bike OFF!


That cop needed to stand behind his door and tell the man to " TURN OFF YOUR BIKE THEN PUT YOUR HANDS UP!"


Worst case,If he did have a gun.... behind your door/squadcar aka "Cover", and the biker would have to torso twist alot to take AIM at the cop...

Or 2nd case scenerio, the biker just takes off... then you just take 1 step back into your squadcar and close your door, throw it in D and give chase while radio-ing in to base that ya have a 10-80!

I agree with you! sounds like you're in law enforcement. Good perdpective IMO.

[FrugalNinja250]

that the city and that cop will be forced to pay, and pay, and pay, forever, for leaving that rider a cripple. If I was on the civil jury I would feel very comfortable with a 20-50 million dollar judgment against the city and the cop. I hope that cop spends the rest of his meaningless life living in bankruptcy and poverty, with every paycheck he ever gets garnished. Who knows, maybe that cop will man up enough to do the only honorable thing he can ever do in his life, and put a bullet through his own head.

Actually, I don't want that cop to end his life, I want him to live a long life paying for and living with what he did; maybe at some point he'll get it, get what it takes to be a human being. Somehow I doubt that he will, though.

[tjkamper]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

that the city and that cop will be forced to pay, and pay, and pay, forever, for leaving that rider a cripple. If I was on the civil jury I would feel very comfortable with a 20-50 million dollar judgment against the city and the cop. I hope that cop spends the rest of his meaningless life living in bankruptcy and poverty, with every paycheck he ever gets garnished.

[rage42]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

If I was on the civil jury I would feel very comfortable with a 20-50 million dollar judgment against the city and the cop. I hope that cop spends the rest of his meaningless life living in bankruptcy and poverty, with every paycheck he ever gets garnished.

He sure deserves this, but it doesn't seem like other violent offenders get it this hard...well some of them.

[Xoulrath]

Wow, just wow. I'm watching the video, and then the officer makes the stop. I keep looking for ANYTHING that the rider did to justify being shot and I couldn't see it. I know police have a dangerous job, but so do they going in. If they can't handle the potential risk then they need not be officers of the law because something like this is just waiting to happen.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Why doesn't the cop just say I ****ed up?

Cops are never wrong. Everything they do is "justified".

He had no right to shoot that guy. It didn't even come close to looking like he was going to do anything to anybody. He was sitting right there being pulled over watching the other cop run his friend off the road in disbelief.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by rage42

He sure deserves this, but it doesn't seem like other violent offenders get it this hard...well some of them.

Police hold themselves up as the epitome of society members, above everyone else. If they expect to be treated to a higher standard, then they should act to a higher standard. Sadly, more often than not the people doing the job of police officers are no better than anyone else, subject to the same behavior as those they are supposedly better than.

That's the crux of the issue, really: Police are people, ordinary citizens, doing a job. It's an important job, but not so important that these ordinary people should be put on a pedestal and treated like they're superior human beings. It's that very treatment that drives their often egregious behavior.

Take how they drive, for instance. On duty, police officers are literally, by law, completely exempt from all traffic laws. It means they can run red lights, speed, weave in and out through traffic without signals, all with impunity. So how do they drive when off duty? The same, and it's fairly common for both on and off duty officers to cause or be involved in accidents where they mistook their immunity from the laws of the road as immunity from the laws of physics. Just a few months ago a Fort Worth cop killed a young mother; last month one drove into a house.

So, when you put a gun in someone's hand and train them to be aggressive, combative, and tell them that it's highly unlikely that they'll suffer consequences from a shooting, even a bad shooting, much worse than administrative leave (paid time off from work with full benies) what happens? They develop a "shoot first" mentality that leaves innocent people maimed and dead just as in this case.

And you can be assured of one completely true fact in this case: If that shooting hadn't been videotaped that cop would have walked with a paycheck and the victim would have been stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debts that he could never pay off.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

Wow, just wow. I'm watching the video, and then the officer makes the stop. I keep looking for ANYTHING that the rider did to justify being shot and I couldn't see it. I know police have a dangerous job, but so do they going in. If they can't handle the potential risk then they need not be officers of the law because something like this is just waiting to happen.

After the rider is stopped, then he starts to turn around to look at the cop, his right hand moves toward his pocket/belt area. The cop may have thought he was reaching for a gun.

HOWEVER....anyone that rides a bike can see that his hand slid up his leg as he turned around to look at the cop (probably to hear what he was saying). It's pretty hard to sit in a bike and turn your head around behind.

Unfortunately, this cop was in the wrong. But if you look at things from his view...two big guys on Harleys with loud pips who speed off in front of you. The guys look like they actually somewhat tried to run...the one guy went flying off the road. They he stops and the cop is freaked out...probably thinking in his head that they are big bad gang members with shotguns.
The cop DEFINITELY was wrong and overreacted...but I can slightly (very slightly) see his side of the story.

The truth is, as someone mentioned, even IF the guy were to pull a gun, the cop would have had more then enough to time evaluate and shoot. He was behind a car door and the biker would have had to do a complete 180 and aim.



And unfortunately there are a lot of bad cops out there, HOWEVER since everyone seems to be jumping on cops, there are a lot of GOOD cops out there as well.
Just yesterday a Florida Highway Patrol officer was killed on duty. His car was hit on the side of the road and caught fire. He couldn't get out of the car a burned to death. Florida has a move over law, meaning on a 2 lane or larger road, you must keep at least a full lane between you and the cop. It was some stupid 19 year old kid who was probably drinking in a riced out lexus.
He left behind a 5 year old and a 3 month old and went to church 2x a week....I doubt he was a bad cop at all.
kind of irrellavent, but not all cops are bad as some of you are making it seem.

[randomwalk101]

Shoot & paralyze a person for a max sentence of 11 years ( may get less & paroled much sooner). Sounds fun...I have a list of people I'd like to shoot...a few years in prison? No prob...I'll be out in a few years but you'll be dead or paralyzed for life. Hmmm...

(being sarcastic of course)
Posted via Mobile Device

[sofo]

Looking at the video and clearly seeing the rider's position compared to the officer's who also had his car as cover, there is no reasonable excuse for shooting when he did.

The only way the rider could have fired a weapon - had he had one - with his right hand would have been to swivel on his bike over 90 degrees clockwise and by that time any trained officer with a clear head and vision would have time to actually identify the weapon, then take cover and either call for the rider to surrender or if the continued to turn, then shoot at him.

This officer acted prematurely and shot an unarmed man who stopped and made no clearly identifiable aggressive motions.

He should be stripped of his badge and removed from society for life for what he did. It was irresponsible and frankly, cowardly in my opinion and I don't care what excuse he has, he failed at the most important thing he was trained to do and that is inexcusable.

To see him screaming at the rider to put his hands behind his back after being shot in the back and then falling over on his bike is just insane. I'd go so far to say that the rider's father should get one kick to this man's lumbar area before he goes to prison but much worse awaits him if justice is served.

[ninja250]

I'm sure he'll get the good treatment in a maximum security prison while we pay for him not to get his butt kicked in jail while watching TV every day. He definitely can't be placed alone with other common inmates.

This stuff bugs me. Screw that cop for shooting that guy. They should slap the full book at him and make a real example of him like the cops do to us when they exploit us and pull us over with all their flashing lights and sirens and use us as a tool of fear on other citizens.

Somehow I have a feeling his friend would not have hit the curb on his bike if he was not distracted by the police trying to pull him over at the instant he entered a round about type turn area and the distraction caused him to hit the center of it. It didn't look like he was trying to run to me, looked like he was busy losing control of his motorcycle due to being surprised because he didn't know the cops were there.

This seems to have caused quite a commotion and stirred up the pansy officer who decided to just jump out of the car and shoot.
None of his training held him back.
Shoot first, ask questions later. No doubt. Sad.
Could have been any one of us. That guy did nothing to deserve to be paralyzed for life. Imagine the moment the bullet hit him and he felt his legs give out and fell over man. That was it right there, you can literally watch him seize up and fall into paralysis in the video. All I needed to see to lock that cop up forever.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Imagine the moment the bullet hit him and he felt his legs give out and fell over man. That was it right there, you can literally watch him seize up and fall into paralysis in the video. All I needed to see to lock that cop up forever.

You should be on that guys defense team. That statement right there would convict the cop in a heartbeat.

It's a shame that out of all places for the bullet to hit...the spine...paralyzed. Hopefully this guy gets enough money from this to at least make the rest of his life livable.
Most likely, he will loose his job (unless he has some sort of non-physical job that will wait while he recovers). He will have medical bills out the ass for the rest of his life. Any vehicle he gets will cost him tons more to have customized with lifts and hand controls for him to be able to drive. Everything will take 2-3 times longer to do...showers, going places, etc.

[Hadyn]

'Felonious Assault'?
Try attempted homicide. If his defense is that he thought the rider had a gun, then he would be shooting in self defense and aiming to kill. You don't disarm someone by shooting them in the back. Yes it's what he's trained to do, but he was still attempting to eliminate the percieved threat. 'Felonious Assault' makes it sound like he punched the guy in the face, not paralyzed him for life.

I had a sheriff behind me for most of the ride to work today, and all I could think about was this video. It's a scary abuse of power.
Posted via Mobile Device

[FrugalNinja250]

Here's a symmetrical situation: http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Woman...-92916264.html

A woman was asleep, got woken up by people smashing her door down, pulled a gun from under her pillow and shot at the dark shapes smashing their way into her bedroom because she thought they were trying to rob her. Turned out they were Dallas police executing a drug raid. One police officer got shot in the neck and is now paralyzed. She got convicted and sentenced to 45 years in prison. The Ohio cop might get eleven years, but probably much less, for no other reason than he had a badge on.

The paralyzed Dallas cop is regaled as a hero and even got a new top-end house built for him for free, as well as all sorts of other benefits and perks thrown his way. The Ohio motorcyclist will get to spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair wearing a diaper for anal and urinary incontinence, and likely won't see any money from the civil lawsuit settlement for years because the city's insurance carrier will fight it all the way to the top state court. Until they pay, the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills he's got will have to come out of his own pocket. If he hasn't declared bankruptcy yet he soon will.

Nobody else can police the police, only they can police themselves. The good cops stand by and do nothing while the bad cops destroy the reputation of that position in society. Standing by and doing nothing is the same as being an active participant; by that measure, there are no good cops. If cops want a good reputation back they're going to have to earn it like everyone else. A badge and a gun are no replacement for acting like a responsible citizen doing a job.

[JeffM]

The whole thing is a bummer.

A part-time police officer and dispatcher in Ottawa Hills

There may be a issues regarding training/experience regarding the officer. I think the city will end up paying up.

I think the officer screwed up.

I understand that there will be Monday morning quaterbacking, as this is a discussion board. I am suprised how much venom there is for LEOs here.

[capt_bugaloo]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I am suprised how much venom there is for LEOs here.

I'm not - there are good cops and bad cops, and the bad ones do plenty to hurt the overall reputation.
Posted via Mobile Device

[littledog]

Originally Posted by JeffM

The whole thing is a bummer.



There may be a issues regarding training/experience regarding the officer. I think the city will end up paying up.

I think the officer screwed up.

I understand that there will be Monday morning quaterbacking, as this is a discussion board. I am suprised how much venom there is for LEOs here.

The venom expressed towards LEO here is in my estimation founded in fear of them. A law abiding citizen should have no reason to fear the police, but as we see here that is not reality.

[ninja250]

Next time I wont pull over. When they finally hit me off the bike, force me to the ground and arrest me, I'll tell them I ran because I was afraid I was going to be shot in the back execution style for surrendering.

Funny how they don't shoot at the guys who are running from them at 100mph, causing danger to the general public.

[cnichols79us]

Wtf???????????????????

[billybobjoeiv]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Funny how they don't shoot at the guys who are running from them at 100mph, causing danger to the general public.

Hahaha. thats a very good point. but im still waiting and waiting for the law to actually make sense very often. I mean look at prisons and murder trials and stuff. Taxpayers pay millions and millions so that they can be on trial for 15 years and then be put into a prison where we then pay for them to eat and live.

[250rStar]

are you freakin kidding me!!!!! wow why do we give stupid people guns! this is one of the most f-d up things i have ever seen anyways 11 years doesn't seem enough to me its like the biker has to live the rest of his life paralyzed and the person responsible gets out in 11 years, not right. on a lighter note his friend should get a side car so he can still enjoy cruising on a nice day.

[tabogon]

As mentioned before, he won't do 11 years. He will get put in a seperate portion of the prison from general public, have better accomidations, get treated well by the guards because he's a cop, and get out early on good behaviour. He may have been found guilty, but he's not going to be punished like he should be.

[dimeified]

look, i agree that the bullet never should have left the gun. But why were the two motorcyclists taking off that fast with the cop behind them? i'll never say he deserved his fate, but i think in this situation he caused his own problem. i'm sure i speak for everyone when i say that we ride respectfully in the presence of police and stop immediately when the sirens and lights go off. i dont even think the guy had a helmet on. common sense, police have guns, dont F*CK with them, they ARE human. you never know what nutjob shouldn't have a badge.

[ScraitT]

They probably had no clue a cop was behind them. It was night on a dark road. Now I do agree it seems like it took them WAY too long to slow down and stop after the sirens went on, but I wasn't there.
Ohio doesn't require a helmet, so what does a helmet have to do with this?

I understand the cops situation, but he still reacted WAY to quickly and harshly. The biker posed NO threat when the cop shot. The guy probably couldn't even hear the cop yelling because he probably (assumption) had loud aftermarket exhaust.

[smcbride11]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

but he still reacted WAY to quickly and harshly

While I don't disagree, it really does seem to be a training issue. With all the chaos going on around him, I'd suspect the officer was scared and paranoid and likely unfamiliar with a situation like that. I almost feel bad for thinking this, but it makes you wonder if it would have gone down the same way had the rider simply flicked the kill switch.