you guys were right (short levers)

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 02:25 PM

Ealier this week I asked advice on adjusting the clutch or switching the lever. You guys told me to switch the lever, so I did. You guys were right!!
So I installed my adjustable short lever on my clutch side and tested it out in the parking lot! MUCH BETTER FEEL. I was about to change my brake lever too, but then it started thundering so I covered my bike back up.
The size difference is quite noticeable, fits my hand MUCH better and much easier to pull too! believe it or not my entire hand fits on the lever lol!

Motofool · May 29th, 2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

.........You guys told me to switch the lever, so I did. You guys were right!!.........

The collective wisdom of www.ninjette.org is always as right as helpful.

Next step to solid progress:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...the_shifter%3F

Link to original page on YouTube.

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

The collective wisdom of www.ninjette.org is always as right as helpful.

Next step to solid progress:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...the_shifter%3F

Link to original page on YouTube.

WOW! great advice... like always! you guys are amazing! seriously!

just a size comparison of my hand and how tiny it really is XD

csmith12 · May 29th, 2016, 04:52 PM

motodancer · May 29th, 2016, 05:39 PM

Just curious, what was this for?

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Just curious, what was this for?

Can you be more specific? What do you mean? the levers?

motodancer · May 29th, 2016, 05:44 PM

Well yes. The reason for this thread

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Well yes. The reason for this thread

They are shorty levers. They can replace your stock levers.

motodancer · May 29th, 2016, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

They are shorty levers. They can replace your stock levers.

Yeah but what are they for?

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Yeah but what are they for?

They are your lever replacement. You use your levers for clutch and front brake? Have you ever done research on a bike?

motodancer · May 29th, 2016, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

They are your lever replacement. You use your levers for clutch and front brake? Have you ever done research on a bike?

no no, I mean WHY did you need to replace them? What are "short" levers? Were the original ones no good?

ZeroGravity360 · May 29th, 2016, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

no no, I mean WHY did you need to replace them? What are "short" levers? Were the original ones no good?

Shorty levers are just shorter. They are also adjustable. My hand is small so I needed someting closer to the handle bars. They also complement the bike

motodancer · May 29th, 2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

Shorty levers are just shorter. They are also adjustable. My hand is small so I needed someting closer to the handle bars. They also complement the bike

Okay, that's the answer I was looking for.

Was my question not clear enough? Sorry.
I might need them; my hands are small as well!

snot · May 29th, 2016, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Yeah but what are they for?

Short levers are used by many riders.... But in short they are adjustable to give a better feel and fit.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 29th, 2016, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snot

Short levers are used by many riders.... But in short they are adjustable to give a better feel and fit.

Not all shorty levers are adjustable. In MX they make aftermarket shorty levers ,much like the stock ninjette levers but shorted, so when you pull them in they go all they way to the bar and don't hit your other two fingers. They also don't break when you drop the bike as much.

snot · May 29th, 2016, 07:52 PM

^^ better explanation

csmith12 · May 29th, 2016, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Okay, that's the answer I was looking for.

Was my question not clear enough? Sorry.
I might need them; my hands are small as well!

Shorty levers come in to 2 main forms, adjustable and just plain short.

Just plain short - When your riding preference is to brake or clutch with just 2 fingers or your hand is small.

Adjustable - The adjustable part is the numbers 1-6 as pictured above. Which setting you choose will move the lever closer or farther away from the bar so the friction zone or braking pressure is more relative to your grip preference. (not all adjustable levers have numbers 1-6, some are just a knob)

It's mostly best to stick with the stock length while your just learning to ride as you can use all 4 fingers on the lever (although adjustable may be the prefered to put the lever within easy reach). As skill, confidence and preferences are learned, you can elected to replace the levers with short/adjustable levers.

There are also "foldable" levers, that are less prone to breaking when the bike goes down. Popular with track riders/racers.

I hope that answers your questions completely, if not.... lemme know.

ZeroGravity360 · May 30th, 2016, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Shorty levers come in to 2 main forms, adjustable and just plain short.

Just plain short - When your riding preference is to brake or clutch with just 2 fingers or your hand is small.

Adjustable - The adjustable part is the numbers 1-6 as pictured above. Which setting you choose will move the lever closer or farther away from the bar so the friction zone or braking pressure is more relative to your grip preference. (not all adjustable levers have numbers 1-6, some are just a knob)

It's mostly best to stick with the stock length while your just learning to ride as you can use all 4 fingers on the lever (although adjustable may be the prefered to put the lever within easy reach). As skill, confidence and preferences are learned, you can elected to replace the levers with short/adjustable levers.

There are also "foldable" levers, that are less prone to breaking when the bike goes down. Popular with track riders/racers.

I hope that answers your questions completely, if not.... lemme know.

This is correct. Most people need full size levers. However, for me, my knuckles measure 3 inches across (very small palm) so for me personally the stock levers always left my hand feeling over worked because it's harder to pull. As you can see I can fit all 4 fingers on my shorty levers but that's mainly due to having a 3" Palm.

MrAtom · May 30th, 2016, 05:29 AM

I have the hands of a great ape and the comfort requirements of a rock. Short levers have always been a strange concept to me. I think I might pick up a pair just to see if I like 'em. I normally do my index and middle finger on the clutch and middle, ring and pinky fingers covering the brake.

jkv45 · May 30th, 2016, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Link to original page on YouTube.

Also make sure the rotation of the lever is set correctly. 1:40 in this video covers it.

Many riders have the levers rotated way too far up, which makes you reach upward and puts strain on your wrist.

InvisiBill · May 30th, 2016, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

Most people need full size levers. However, for me, my knuckles measure 3 inches across (very small palm) so for me personally the stock levers always left my hand feeling over worked because it's harder to pull. As you can see I can fit all 4 fingers on my shorty levers but that's mainly due to having a 3" Palm.

Actually, shorter levers have less leverage, so they're slightly harder to pull (it's simple physics - less length means more force is needed). I'm guessing the difficulty was due to the stock levers being too far from the bar, so your hand had a hard time grabbing them. Think of trying to palm a basketball vs. trying to squeeze a baseball - your fingers can grab better in the middle of the range compared to the very edges of your grip.

Personally, I much prefer the feel of not having all my fingers on the lever. For ~$25 a set, it's pretty cheap and easy to try out other levers. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197412

ZeroGravity360 · May 30th, 2016, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Actually, shorter levers have less leverage, so they're slightly harder to pull (it's simple physics - less length means more force is needed). I'm guessing the difficulty was due to the stock levers being too far from the bar, so your hand had a hard time grabbing them. Think of trying to palm a basketball vs. trying to squeeze a baseball - your fingers can grab better in the middle of the range compared to the very edges of your grip.

Personally, I much prefer the feel of not having all my fingers on the lever. For ~$25 a set, it's pretty cheap and easy to try out other levers. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197412

maybe its due to my riding style. I find my hinds sit to the inside rather than the outside of the handles.

motodancer · May 30th, 2016, 08:07 AM

Huh. I don't know. I'm confused a bit now.
So I keep all my fingers around the clutch, because it's hard to do with only a couple fingers. After riding, even for just a half hour, my left arm (fingers to elbow) kills from working the clutch. Normal or no?
You can only imagine how that arm was feeling after a weekend of riding (doing the MSF)

ZeroGravity360 · May 30th, 2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Huh. I don't know. I'm confused a bit now.
So I keep all my fingers around the clutch, because it's hard to do with only a couple fingers. After riding, even for just a half hour, my left arm (fingers to elbow) kills from working the clutch. Normal or no?
You can only imagine how that arm was feeling after a weekend of riding (doing the MSF)

Your clutch could be too high or you are putting all your weight in your arms.

SLOWn60 · May 30th, 2016, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

Huh. I don't know. I'm confused a bit now.
So I keep all my fingers around the clutch, because it's hard to do with only a couple fingers. After riding, even for just a half hour, my left arm (fingers to elbow) kills from working the clutch. Normal or no?
You can only imagine how that arm was feeling after a weekend of riding (doing the MSF)

Are you confused from what is discussed in the video? If so;
The video shows two clutch lever positions depending on your riding position. You are not a racer so there is no reason to set the controls for a tucked position. You should set (rotate) your clutch & brake levers so that when you are sitting in your usual riding position: you don't have to bend or flex your wrist to extend your fingers from the grip to the lever. Watch though and be aware you don't want to rotate the lever so much that it interferes with your fairing! It's unlikely that will occur but if it does then perhaps get an instructor to check on your position.

As well; you may be putting too much weight on your wrists while riding. You will always increase the pressure when stopping or slowing but normally you should be very light on the bars and using your knees and core muscles to hold you upright and not be leaning on the bar. A good exercise is to flap your elbows. We call it "doing the chicken". Its hard to lean on the bar if you're flapping so it's a great reminder to relax and not lean on the bars!

Keep in mind: the best athletes are always "loose". They limber up, they shake it loose and they concentrate on relaxed breathing. It's a lot harder to knock someone off balance if they are relaxed and flexible, easy if they are tense. Motorcycling is like that too; the bike knows what to do. You want to be relaxed and not fight it! If the bike isn't doing what you want it to do then you are either fighting it (generally; too tense) or there may be a geometry (suspension and/or chassis) reason that can be adjusted but at a newer rider level; it's usually rider input errors that are causing the problem(s) including such things as discomfort.

Relax, look where you want to go and ride at a pace and in a situation that you are comfortable riding in: ride your own ride.

Note: I like two fingers on both my clutch and brake. They're always on the levers. Your MfS course teaches to keep your fingers on the grip. The racing God #49; Valintino Rossi keeps his fingers on his grips and uses all 4 fingers when clutching and braking. You're in good company if you keep fingers on the grip. But it's important to set the levers so you easily reach them when needed!

motodancer · May 30th, 2016, 10:11 AM

I thought my hands were hurting from pulling in & letting go of the clutch.
Is that normal that it would be sore from that?

NevadaWolf · May 30th, 2016, 10:39 AM

No, it shouldn't be that sore from doing clutch work.

You might need to build up grip stretch (there are great little squishy things that rock climbers use) or you might need to adjust your lever so it's easier for you to pull. If you are stretching out your fingers to reach the clutch, then it could cause strain on your hand. An adjustable lever (long or short) will bring the lever closer so it's less of a reach for you. I have short adjustable levers on both of my bikes because I prefer using two fingers and have a short reach (stubby little fingers).

A note about hand pain;

If you are doing the "chicken wing" thing (keeps your arms from locking) and can wiggle your fingers around (keeps you from having a death grip on the bar) but are still experiencing pain, you might be using your palm to support all of your upper body weight. My hands would go numb easily after a short ride and be painful for hours after a long ride before I figured that out.

The best advice is to do some core strengthening exercises (provided kindly by @Whiskey here) or what I found best for me was this advice:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

2.If you have cruise control, ride with no hands to see the muscles needed to support "no weight on wrists".

I put my bike up on the rear stand and did this, figuring out how my body sat with no hands to support itself and then just rested my hands on the bars. Helped me immensely!

motodancer · May 30th, 2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

If you are stretching out your fingers to reach the clutch, then it could cause strain on your hand.

That's probably it. My fingers are fully stretched out when the clutch isn't pulled in. And when it is, I'm using all my hand muscles (??!) to hold it in and/or ease it back out. My thumb is trying to pull the rest of my fingers in while those fingers are trying to pull the clutch in. It's a workout!!

I'm sure if I rode more, it'd be better since I'm working the muscles more. I don't ride everyday.

And I don't think I'm putting my weight on the handlebars, considering the Rebel had me sitting straight up so there'd be no reason to lean on the handlebars, right?

InvisiBill · May 30th, 2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

And I don't think I'm putting my weight on the handlebars, considering the Rebel had me sitting straight up so there'd be no reason to lean on the handlebars, right?

With the Rebel, you can't lean on the bars, just due to the layout. When you switch to a sportbike, your body is inherently leaning toward the bars (though the little Ninjas aren't as bent over as bigger sportbikes). It's easy to treat it like you're doing a pushup, and support your body weight with your arms. You should be squeezing the tank with your legs and using your core muscles to support your torso. You shouldn't have to shift your weight at all to move your hand off the bar.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 30th, 2016, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I have the hands of a great ape and the comfort requirements of a rock. Short levers have always been a strange concept to me. I think I might pick up a pair just to see if I like 'em. I normally do my index and middle finger on the clutch and middle, ring and pinky fingers covering the brake.

That's a new one to me. Out of all the guys I ride with most of us go pointer finger and middle finger on the levers ring and pinky on the bars. A couple guys used to go pointer, middle, and ring on the lever, and pinky on the bars, but that was when we were kids and they were generally slower / less dedicated.

I've also seen guys do pointer and ring on the lever and middle and pinky on the bars, none of my friends do that, but I've seen it. I've also seen custom clutch levers for this finger position that can pull the lever to the grip.

I've yet to hear about middle, ring, and pinky being used on the lever, and I've never seen anybody have separate grips, except when they had pointer, middle, and ring on the clutch, and pointer, middle on the brake.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 30th, 2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Actually, shorter levers have less leverage, so they're slightly harder to pull (it's simple physics - less length means more force is needed). I'm guessing the difficulty was due to the stock levers being too far from the bar, so your hand had a hard time grabbing them. Think of trying to palm a basketball vs. trying to squeeze a baseball - your fingers can grab better in the middle of the range compared to the very edges of your grip.

Personally, I much prefer the feel of not having all my fingers on the lever. For ~$25 a set, it's pretty cheap and easy to try out other levers. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197412

The length of the lever has nothing to do with the force needed to pull.

The length if the point you are pulling from to the pivot point is directly related to the force needed to pull.

With longer levers you have more freedom of where you can place the pivot point, and therefore, you can change your leverage ratio.

However, with my grip and handlebar setup most of the time I can move the master cylinder as far away from the grip as it will go and still have extra lever on shorty levers. This is due to me preferring a very narrow grip and only using my first two fingers on the levers. Also, most bar bends/ clipons that I have bought have had very limited master cylinder placement.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 30th, 2016, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motodancer

I thought my hands were hurting from pulling in & letting go of the clutch.
Is that normal that it would be sore from that?

That depends, how often do you work the clutch, and how strong are you?

When riding a small CC MX bike the clutch work would roast my forearms. However, I've never had a problem on a street bike or my 250, because you don't need to work the clutch (nearly as much). I used to do forearm exercises just for armpump. Now with my current bike selection, if I get armpump I have something ill adjusted, or I'm gripping the bike wrong.

SLOWn60 · May 30th, 2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

The length of the lever has nothing to do with the force needed to pull.

The length if the point you are pulling from to the pivot point is directly related to the force needed to pull.

With longer levers you have more freedom of where you can place the pivot point, and therefore, you can change your leverage ratio.

However, with my grip and handlebar setup most of the time I can move the master cylinder as far away from the grip as it will go and still have extra lever on shorty levers. This is due to me preferring a very narrow grip and only using my first two fingers on the levers. Also, most bar bends/ clipons that I have bought have had very limited master cylinder placement.

All true Ryan except you can't adjust the in & out of the levers on a stock Ninja (at least not on mine: 2012) You can mount them upside down & backwards on an MX but you'll note: we aren't referring to MX bikes.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 30th, 2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

All true Ryan except you can't adjust the in & out of the levers on a stock Ninja (at least not on mine: 2012) You can mount them upside down & backwards on an MX but you'll note: we aren't referring to MX bikes.

You can slide the master cylinder/ clutch perch left or right on the clipon / bar on the ninjette to change the leverage. This is pretty much the only way to change the leverage of a lever.

SLOWn60 · May 30th, 2016, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

You can slide the master cylinder/ clutch perch left or right on the clipon / bar on the ninjette to change the leverage. This is pretty much the only way to change the leverage of a lever.

On a clipon: yes but I'm willing to bet she has stock bars.

Anyhoo...all else being equal: someone that uses all four fingers on a stock lever has more leverage therefore more force than someone using either 2 or 4fingers on a shorty lever. This is all semantics in relation to InvisiBills comments.

HoneyBadgerRy · May 30th, 2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

On a clipon: yes but I'm willing to bet she has stock bars.

Anyhoo...all else being equal: someone that uses all four fingers on a stock lever has more leverage therefore more force than someone using either 2 or 4fingers on a shorty lever. This is all semantics in relation to InvisiBills comments.

The same bars, same master cylinder in the same position, with the sake grip and same fingers. It doesn't matter what lever you have, its the same amount of leverage. The extra long lever only has more leverage if you grip it at that long point, which you don't.

SLOWn60 · May 30th, 2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

The same bars, same master cylinder in the same position, with the sake grip and same fingers. It doesn't matter what lever you have, its the same amount of leverage. The extra long lever only has more leverage if you grip it at that long point, which you don't.

Perhaps you don't but most people that use 4 fingers do.
SLOWn60....Out!

MrAtom · May 30th, 2016, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

I've yet to hear about middle, ring, and pinky being used on the lever, and I've never seen anybody have separate grips, except when they had pointer, middle, and ring on the clutch, and pointer, middle on the brake.

With my setup and experience, it makes sense why I use different finger combos. I once snapped two clutch cables in a period of about three months. This was before I was properly lubing them (I used to use a thin silicone spray. I know better now and use Dri-Slide). Before, I'd use all my fingers on the clutch. I realized that having the clutch lever parallel to the left handlebar was easily enough to fully activate the clutch, so I started keeping my pinky and middle finger in there to keep me from pulling the lever too far. Now that my cables are being properly taken care of, there's no need to continue doing this, but I've become accustomed to it and there's no harm in it, so I keep doing it.

As for the right hand, I use three fingers because I found that, while practicing emergency stops, it was more effective to use three fingers, and just the index finger and thumb are easily enough for throttle control on most roads. If I'm in a situation where throttle control is a higher priority, then I'll keep my whole hand on the throttle. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to ride with an "Okay" with their right hand, though.

SLOWn60 · May 30th, 2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

I've yet to hear about middle, ring, and pinky being used on the lever.

No less than Valantino Rossi

motodancer · May 30th, 2016, 03:46 PM

Eh it was probably a one time thing then. I was working the clutch a lot because we had to change gears a lot and practice going slow and whatnot.
And like someone said, it's pretty hard to lean on the handlebars on the rebel because of how you're sitting so I know I'm not doing that.
I just have to work out more

that's probably it.

May 29th, 2016, 02:25 PM	#1
ZeroGravity360 Just sittin on my stool.. Name: Amanda Location: Bloomington, IN Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250 Posts: 429	you guys were right (short levers) Ealier this week I asked advice on adjusting the clutch or switching the lever. You guys told me to switch the lever, so I did. You guys were right!! So I installed my adjustable short lever on my clutch side and tested it out in the parking lot! MUCH BETTER FEEL. I was about to change my brake lever too, but then it started thundering so I covered my bike back up. The size difference is quite noticeable, fits my hand MUCH better and much easier to pull too! believe it or not my entire hand fits on the lever lol!

May 29th, 2016, 07:52 PM	#16
snot sammich maker Name: snot Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 white 300, 09 KLX 250 SF, 09 thunder blue 250(traded) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '15	^^ better explanation __________________________________________________ https://www.brocksperformance.com/VZ...0035+C450.aspx

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May 29th, 2016, 05:39 PM	#5
motodancer ninjette.org member Name: S Location: Midwest Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 Posts: 134	Just curious, what was this for?

May 29th, 2016, 05:44 PM	#7
motodancer ninjette.org member Name: S Location: Midwest Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 Posts: 134	Well yes. The reason for this thread

May 30th, 2016, 05:29 AM	#19
MrAtom . Name: . Location: . Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot. MOTM - July '15	I have the hands of a great ape and the comfort requirements of a rock. Short levers have always been a strange concept to me. I think I might pick up a pair just to see if I like 'em. I normally do my index and middle finger on the clutch and middle, ring and pinky fingers covering the brake.

May 30th, 2016, 08:07 AM	#23
motodancer ninjette.org member Name: S Location: Midwest Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 Posts: 134	Huh. I don't know. I'm confused a bit now. So I keep all my fingers around the clutch, because it's hard to do with only a couple fingers. After riding, even for just a half hour, my left arm (fingers to elbow) kills from working the clutch. Normal or no? You can only imagine how that arm was feeling after a weekend of riding (doing the MSF)

May 30th, 2016, 10:11 AM	#26
motodancer ninjette.org member Name: S Location: Midwest Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 Posts: 134	I thought my hands were hurting from pulling in & letting go of the clutch. Is that normal that it would be sore from that?

May 30th, 2016, 03:46 PM	#40
motodancer ninjette.org member Name: S Location: Midwest Join Date: May 2016 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 Posts: 134	Eh it was probably a one time thing then. I was working the clutch a lot because we had to change gears a lot and practice going slow and whatnot. And like someone said, it's pretty hard to lean on the handlebars on the rebel because of how you're sitting so I know I'm not doing that. I just have to work out more that's probably it.