October 13th, 2013, 02:18 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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ninja 250 supersport build
I'm getting back into racing and decided to jump into the Ninja 250 Cup with OMRRA.
This build will be on a budget so I'm only doing what is essential for OMRRA, safety, and base performance. I feel I can get away with using the stock suspension for the first couple months as I'm 5'9" and only ~150lbs suited. With that said, I do think having the ability too adjust the suspension is crucial so I may try to achieve that sooner rather than later. So I picked up a 2008 Ninja 250R with a branded title for $1,900. It was branded because somehow had a low speed wreck. 2014 Race Prep:
I think that's the gist of what I'll be working on this winter. Now on to the pics! 10/31/13 Update: I do plan to improve the suspension within reasonable means that meet Omrra regulations. Last futzed with by simook; November 4th, 2013 at 11:21 AM. |
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October 13th, 2013, 02:42 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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So as you can see, I have a compact space in a parking garage. Not the best conditions for a race bike but its covered and is dry. Thankfully it was only a temporary situation but for the time being it wasn't going to stop me from starting the conversion. |
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October 13th, 2013, 02:52 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Inspecting the carbs before jetting. I was very surprised with how clean they were.
Yay parts! |
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October 13th, 2013, 03:03 PM | #4 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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That a good lookin bike! Race it up!! This is def the kind of post I like!!! plenty of racers around to get info from
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October 13th, 2013, 03:17 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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A friend of mine offered to help me out with my racing dreams. He's gifted me a dedicated shop space, bike transportation, and tools. We're in the process of outfitting one of his shop bays to be a dedicated space for racing. (He's also a racer.) We're installing a bike lift, shelves, and work benches. Did I mention he has a paint boot and access to a motorcycle dyno.
But for the moment, I'm storing my bike in an empty corner as we work on outfitting the shop. Removed the kickstand mount with a sawzall. Still need to clean it up, grind it down, and spray paint. Ok so I was in a hurry and didn't take any pictures of installing the exhaust, removing the tail section, or cleaning up the fender. But here's how she stands with the fiberglass fairings. I didn't spend any time on alignment, just wanted to get a gauge on how much work will be needed to align them up. I always have bad luck with fiberglass fairings. (The building in the background is the paint booth.) |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
October 13th, 2013, 03:22 PM | #6 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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No... But that's good ****!!! You color matching or goin mean green??? Y'all lookin for a third?
Lookin good so far, an at least you aren't in a Parkin garage anymore
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October 13th, 2013, 03:27 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Amen to not being in the garage. Regardless of what I end up doing, I will color match everything to a flat white.
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October 13th, 2013, 03:36 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Here's a couple clips of it running with the exhaust, jets, stock airfilter, and snorkel removed.
Currently it almost dies when giving it any gas, is slow to respond, and surges. So I'm going to pull the carbs and verify the internals are proper and didn't clog up anywhere. I also just realized as I was writing this that the gas in the tank is the same gas that the previous owner had put into it and it's almost empty. So hopefully it's just picking up a bunch of crap gas. The first video has a vacuum leak. I think I plugged the leak in the second. |
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October 14th, 2013, 07:23 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chad
Location: Stationed in Turkey
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 CBR600RR Posts: 12
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Watching. I will be doing this when I get back to the states.
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October 14th, 2013, 11:22 AM | #10 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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150lbs is too much for stock suspension i think. the suspension mods are more important than the performance mods on the track
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October 14th, 2013, 11:33 AM | #11 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Quote:
Also, I have a pretty good understanding of what suspension mods are available for the 250, so having more facts can help me in choosing the right mods. Btw, I love your avatar Alex. |
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October 14th, 2013, 11:43 AM | #12 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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if i remember right stock 250 suspension is sprung for 120lb geared rider. weighing 170 geared, i run 0.85mm/kg springs up front and i still come close to bottoming out on hard braking. if i remember right, stock front spring rate is around 0.6mm/kg. fine for 150lbs on the street. not fine if you plan on putting a lot of force in corners or braking.
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October 14th, 2013, 11:53 AM | #13 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Quote:
It's been 3 years since I've been on the track, and with not having a racing license I'll be a novice racer for the first half of the season. My main focus will be to not wreck, but still finish in the allotted times. So with this context, do you still think upgrading the stock suspension should be a higher priority? |
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October 14th, 2013, 01:18 PM | #14 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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no harm trying it and seeing how it goes. its pretty easy to tell if you need stiffer suspension.
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October 20th, 2013, 09:33 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Spent all day Saturday working on these tasks:
After getting new gas into the fuel system, the bike starts right up with choke and once warmed up I reset the idle to ~1400ish. Throttle response was good, and the only con was that it bogs down when quickly chopped (lean?). I have no idea if this is normal, but from my experience it didn't seem normal at all. At this point I felt adjusting the mixture screws was a bright idea to attempt to fix the problem. This is where things went south. Looking back I should of done the carb sync first with the bike warmed up. But somehow I convinced myself I needed to do this first. So pulled the carb, adjusted mixture screws 1/4 and reinstalled carb. Repeated this process about 6 times. Nothing was improving and it seemed worse so I set the mixture screws back to what I thought I set originally for the dynojet, L-3 / R-3. Now it would only start with choke and barely wants to run, and will slowly start to die. Giving any gas will kill it. (rich?). With the bike barely running with the default dynojet setup, I realized I have no baseline reference to work from. Reinstalled the stock needle, jets and set the mixture screws to L-2.5 / R-1.75 (w/ Yoshi full exhaust, K&N air filter, and snorkel removed). Starts with choke, idles rough and again will slowly die. Giving it any gas will kill it. (rich?). At this point I threw in the towel for the day, but I plan to reinstall the stock exhaust and see if that helps ( Already threw out the stock airfilter and snorkel). If I can get it running right with almost stock parts, I will sync the carbs and also check valve clearance. With those sorted that should give me a better baseline to continue. I've read everything I can find regarding the 250r carbs, mixture screws, lean/rich, etc... but applying that knowledge takes time and patience, not too mention the right tools. Any thoughts, tips, or advice would be appreciated. |
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October 20th, 2013, 10:08 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joshua
Location: Loomis, CA
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 (Black) Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 151
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YEAR: 2012
INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Snorkel removed, Uni Filter Panel Filter EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: Yosh Full Exhaust, Kleen Removed JET KIT OR STOCK: Kit BRAND OF JET KIT: Dynojet Stage 2 MAIN JET: DJ 98 NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: 3 from top, then another placed 1 from top, no washers Pilot Jet: Keihin 42 ordered separate MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 1.5 ELEVATION: Sea level Someone posted this in the Jetting database that we have and I followed it and my bike runs stinking awesome. Most days I don't even need the choke. I also drilled my sliders, no lag what so ever. Not sure if your problem is a jetting issue though. Just to let you know I had the same issue with the bike dying when too much throttle was applied too quickly, rejetting was HUGE and made me WTF the first time I opened the throttle. |
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October 20th, 2013, 10:29 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Decided to improve my tool collection with a proper carb sync tool. http://www.ebay.com/itm/331036925003...84.m1439.l2649
Has anyone used a afr meter? |
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October 20th, 2013, 10:51 AM | #18 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
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Did you clean out all the tiny orifices in the carbs? Sounds like dirty carbs. The fluid in the bottle method works for me when synching carbs.
Yes to the AFR meter.
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October 20th, 2013, 01:21 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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Sounds like you just need to start the whole tune process over. Sync the carbs, then do the Mains, needle height, idle mix and float height in that order. Syncing the carbs shouldn't take long at all.
Remember a bike running rich will run worse as it warms up and vice versa.
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Mods: Offset clutch pressure plate |
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October 20th, 2013, 05:21 PM | #20 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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If it was rich it wouldn't need choke, and would start fine cold without it.
Sounds like you need to go through the carbs again. When you removed the idle speed screws, did a spring, washer, and an o-ring come out with it? If not, the o-rings may be damaged and plugging the passage. If you didn't before when the carbs were off, remove the idle mixture screws and spray carb cleaner through the opening. Most likely the pilot jets are at least partially plugged (it's an epidemic...). Pull out the pilots and find a very fine copper wire (or something that will go through the jet without damaging the shape) and spin the jet around it while spraying with carb cleaner, then remove it and spray again. Blowing the jets, and the passages in the carb, with compressed air is also a good idea. |
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October 20th, 2013, 06:58 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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October 20th, 2013, 07:09 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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October 20th, 2013, 09:16 PM | #23 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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I am surprised to see nothing there for suspension, power is useless if you can not get to the ground properly. Personal experience on stock suspension, is at the track it dives, from just easing off the throttle. After switching to a GSXR shock, it created far more stability. I am not sure what the rules are for where you are racing, but stiffer springs and emulators would be the first place to start if I was going racing. Then I would go with rear sets, because ground clearance is a bitch, had a little low-side last summer because i wanted a few MPH around the corner my right peg was consistently hitting.
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October 20th, 2013, 10:03 PM | #24 |
Blue Shell magnet
Name: Nolan
Location: Northwest Washington
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1997 Ninja 250 Posts: 816
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This thread. I like it.
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October 21st, 2013, 06:46 AM | #25 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
Typically 2 1/2 turns out on the stock idle mixture screws gets you in the ballpark. Another way is to adjust for the highest idle speed (when fully hot) and then go just slightly richer (1/8 to 1/4 out). Spray some carb cleaner through the opening when you take them out. Because you found gunk in the float bowls you can assume there is varnish and deposits in other parts of the carb as well. |
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October 21st, 2013, 09:29 AM | #26 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Thanks everyone. You've reaffirmed that I need to do a carb teardown, inspection, and cleaning.
cbinker suspension is on my todo list, but I don't know if I will be able to do it just yet. Also, before touching the suspension I would like to get it on the track first and get a baseline reference of how the stock is. This gives me time to research and save up the $$$. Most likely I will just swap the suspension at the track after getting feedback from the bike. I'm also awaiting on a ruling from OMRRA regarding the gsxr rear shock mod, it appears it may be a violation with the rule "Rear shock linkage must remain stock". |
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October 31st, 2013, 07:31 AM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Oleg
Location: Seattle WA
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): CRF450X, CRF250R/SM, Husky 630 SMS, Ninja 250R Posts: 144
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This is pretty much the build I'm doing. Subscribed!
Haven't pulled carbs yet, they will be done much later in the winter when all the other stuff is sorted out. Current plan is not to use the a jet kit. My understanding is that going .05-1mm up on the needle is all that's needed, other mods make no difference unless airbox is opened up much more than rules allow. If you can get some dyno time with AFR meter... |
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October 31st, 2013, 09:39 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Thanks for subscribing everyone!
I've been a bookworm lately, currently reading Motorcycle Fuel Systems Techbook and Sportbike Suspension Tuning. So far both books are great reads and have lots of technical teachings. The biggest realization I've had is with what the Airbox actually does for the intake system. I suggest anyone considering to remove the Airbox to learn about carburetor theory and how the intake system effects it. On to the pics! Carb teardown, inspection, and clean (again). First attempt at carb synch The carb synch gagues didnt work so well, so I switched it out for my homemade system. Some air was in line from each bottle and it turned out to help with the process.
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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November 2nd, 2013, 06:35 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chad
Location: Stationed in Turkey
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 CBR600RR Posts: 12
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Glad to see you got it all figured out.
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November 2nd, 2013, 07:37 AM | #31 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Oleg
Location: Seattle WA
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): CRF450X, CRF250R/SM, Husky 630 SMS, Ninja 250R Posts: 144
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If you build a stay I might be interested in one as well. I'm keeping mine street legal-ish so didn't want to cut up the stocker.
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November 2nd, 2013, 08:20 AM | #32 |
Motorcycle Nurse?
Name: Jacques
Location: Gulf Coast
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R, 1998 Ducati 748L #77/100 Posts: 606
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What are you going to be doing with the old plastics? My left lower is scratched up and cracked
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November 2nd, 2013, 09:37 AM | #33 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Quote:
Also, can anyone reference what they used to replace the front wheel speed gear? Specifically part #41078 and #601 (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...8915#sch550349). I've read a couple guys have used spacers, but what kind of spacers? |
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November 2nd, 2013, 07:51 PM | #34 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Oleg
Location: Seattle WA
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): CRF450X, CRF250R/SM, Husky 630 SMS, Ninja 250R Posts: 144
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Quote:
You can keep it as is, just plug the speedo cable hole. Spacer would have to be custom cut tube with internal diameter matching the axle. It's on my todo list, but not a must have to go racing. |
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November 4th, 2013, 11:20 AM | #35 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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Spent this last weekend getting a lot of little things down, but my main goal was to get the bike ridable.
Modified the stock cowling stay to work with the race fairings. Installed and adjusted the rear-sets. Well that's not ideal. Cleaned up the bike stand mount. Time for a ride. These fairings are getting dirty, probably time to start thinking about a paint job. Also got the bike ready for winter storage, that's a load off the mind. As of now I'm feeling pretty good with where things are at. Still have a lot of work to do but it should be all down hill from here. |
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November 4th, 2013, 02:12 PM | #36 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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How did your rearsets fit? Many people have posted about issues...
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November 4th, 2013, 02:17 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 106
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They installed perfectly.
I just received my rear-sets from one of the latest batches from Woodcraft, so I'm thinking they may have made some adjustments to the manufacturing process to fix any fitting issues. |
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November 4th, 2013, 02:25 PM | #38 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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Are they even on both sides?
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November 4th, 2013, 02:31 PM | #39 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Looking good.
One suggestion - notch or drill plenty of holes around the peg to give them a clean breakaway point in the event of a crash. The Woodcraft rearsets are strong enough to rip the mounts out of the frame in any type of crash. A lot easier/quicker/cheaper to have an extra peg in the toolbox than having to repair the torn-out mounts. |
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November 4th, 2013, 03:10 PM | #40 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Oleg
Location: Seattle WA
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): CRF450X, CRF250R/SM, Husky 630 SMS, Ninja 250R Posts: 144
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Quote:
I crashed a set of these on R6 and it rode from 120 to a stop on it and saved the bike. With Ninja frame isn't strong enough to handle that sort of a crash. |
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