2005 ninja 250 vacuum leak/clog?

[fuel664]

ok tryed searching but my phone seems to hate the search function. anyway last year bike died on me as i was pulling in my driveway. sputtered and acted like it was out of gas (i was pretty low with petcock in the "on" pos.). it was the last drive of the year so i wasnt to worried. now this riding season i take it out to start and nothing, i forgot to plug in battery tender. so tryed jumping it with my truck and starter would free spin. got that all fixed but the carbs wont put gas into the motor. the petcock is working, put a hose on vacuum side while sucking and gas dumps out. the fuel filter is new, carbs are spotless just re-jet them for pod filters and exhaust 2 years ago. so i sucked on the vacuum side until the bowls were full and tryed cranking it and still nothing. the boots are dry. its not moving gas at all. tryed spraying gas down the carbs to get started but thats pretty messy and my H.O.A. hates mechanics and their messes.
any help would be great.
btw only one place in town will work on my bike for 95$ an hour... joys of alaska

[csmith12]

Welcome Robert!

Someone will be right along that should be able to point you in the right direction.

[DEFY]

Welcome Robert!!!

Please continue to hold for the next available representative lol

[fuel664]

lol

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by DEFY

Welcome Robert!!!

Please continue to hold for the next available representative lol

[ieathonda]

Possibly gunked up carbs from sitting for awhile? Should probably try opening them up and cleaning them out.

[fuel664]

thats what i thought, the jets are clean not even a spot of corrosion or gunk, sprayed them off just for fun. im going to try cleaning carbs again and replacing vacuum lines while im at it when i get home

[fuel664]

trying to figure out how to add photo. but anyway the small hose from the "coasting enricher?" was hardly on one side. and i have a small tear in one diaphragm but its still at the edge going to order some new ones or carbs what ever is cheaper on ebay. but could either of those cause my problems? i honestly dont understand how the coasting enricher works. to dark out to put it back together now so gotta wait till tommorow.

[fuel664]

quick search and didnt see anything. is it possable to swap out for next gen carbs (2008+)? found some cheaper for those instead of current set up

[Qomomoko]

the carb kit, for both floats and fuel stop needle is $28 from a guy on this forum…. I did not try the kit b/c I found out about him after I ordered on ebay…

2008 carb, not sure, can not help you on that one..

I am currently cleaning mine too… .. pine-sol dip… brushing with copper wire… replacing float bowl gasket (which is rubber) so I imagine no glue is used but need double check with you guys (previous rubber gasket seemed to have some sort of glue……and replacing fuel stop needle to with the ebay K&L kit ($46)

[fuel664]

all those parts are newish in mine, i need the (expensive) flimsy rubber slide. that glue you saw was probably old gas + gunk

[fuel664]

no joy. anyone have the slightest idea what to look for? its not moving gas


edit: i think my timing chain is broken... exhaust is SUCKING and PUSHING air and no flow on intake. im assuming that the rod i can see through the intake is the valve and its not moving (consistent with broken timing chain), but i thought they were further in the engine. anyone know how to confirm broken timing chain?

[agentbad]

I don't know that seems pretty rare unless your bike is pretty high miles. Are you getting any spark? Is there oil in the bike? Fuel filter clogged up? Valves in spec? Aliens?

[Ghostt]

Your in need of a full carburetor service, and/or parts.

I strongly recommend you PM @ducatiman for your needs, and advice.

His parts, and services are extremely affordable, and his work is of the highest quality, I personally vouch for him. They come back better than new, for sure.

He offers ultrasonic cleaning, soda blasting, stainless steel hardware, Painting services of the carburetors, etc.... Just to name a few.

[fuel664]

timing chain fell off the gears..

[Ghostt]

Well didn't see that one coming.

Any ideas how it happened? Is the CCT intact?

[fuel664]

no clue why it did this. cct looks to be good but its getting cold outside and keeps sprinkling. so going to bring to my dads for his garage. i will find out more tomorrow. just ordered new chain for 67$ and cct for 50. anything else i should order for parts (i live in AK, everything takes 1 1/2 - 2 weeks to get here)? going to read up on how to properly do this but pretty sure i can slide new chain down the hole onto lower gear. really hopping for no damage from valves vs pistons. but i know the ninja 250 has slight cut outs for valves and hopping it was enough to save my pistons/valves
also the rear chain guide seems to have been eaten by the chain. anyone know if its a mandatory part, or can i get away with not having one with no serious damage?
btw to anyone buying parts sales rep said he could get a new chain for $97 i said i found one on ebay for $60 and he immediately dropped the price to $67. some shady stuff but oh well saved me 30$

[sh123469]

Both timing chain guides should be in good condition. If it's like most, the rear guide is the one that the tensioner pushes to take up slack since that's where the slack is when the engine is running.

From what I've read, you can't just put the bottom end of the chain around...there's a cast-in guard that will prohibit it. You're supposed to split the cases to replace the chain.

Do a search on here about timing chains...there may be a way around that.

[Qomomoko]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Your in need of a full carburetor service, and/or parts.

I strongly recommend you PM @ducatiman for your needs, and advice.

His parts, and services are extremely affordable, and his work is of the highest quality, I personally vouch for him. They come back better than new, for sure.

He offers ultrasonic cleaning, soda blasting, stainless steel hardware, Painting services of the carburetors, etc.... Just to name a few.

sent you Ducatiman a pm about your Carburator services...

[fuel664]

pic #3 you can see part of the guide that got ripped off. its just a strip of the edge got sliced off probably from a bur on the chain when it broke. but yea after looking at it more i cant get the chain on with out pulling clutch basket off. ive read on another forum somewhere you need to split the case but i dont know why you would unless there is something im not seeing.
pulled off the head and pistons and valves look fine so got luck on that but left piston has quite a bit more of carbon build up, right side has a little but not nearly as much. probably time to sync carbs

[fuel664]

ok cam chain came in today but head gasket still has another week to get here. i have to drive out to my dads and i dont want to get out there put everything together and have old head gasket leak. is there any temporary head gasket i can use? not looking to red line it or anything just want to check compression on the heads and make sure valves are good to go. maybe take it around the block. any ideas?

[Ghostt]

Okay this goes for the Ninja 500, but I'm sure the Ninja 250 is the same, if not please let me know ;

Head Gasket repair
Lapping the head

A common failure of the EX engine is, a blown head gasket. The usual cause of this besides the obvious low water or frozen coolant reasons is, warpage of the mating surface between the head and the cylinders. The string of events leading to overheating is: *
High pressure gas leaks from the combustion chamber into the coolant system, thereby over pressurizing it and blowing coolant overboard, then the coolant shortage causes overheating which causes even greater warp age, add on infanatum...

* * As well as the above, any engine that has had the head removed for any reason need to be re lapped. This engine is a very flexible unit because of the cam chain gallery down the middle. The only thing holding the two cylinders together is the very thin wall of the front and back sides of the chain gallery. 1/8” if you’re lucky. This means that the engine works like two single cylinder engines running from a single crank held together by scotch tape. As long as they remain together they are usually fine, but once disassembled they need to be re flattened

The repair:
Unfortunately it is not a simple as replacing the head gasket. Because the “gasket” is not compressible, it is not able to absorb even slight distortion or warp age that may not even be detectable with the usual straight edge type of inspection. The up side of this is that you can re use the gasket.

Tools needed:
A lapping plate; usually a steel flat plate or a pain of flat plate glass. I’ve used my table saw table successfully (the cast iron type)
Lapping compound: Valve lapping compound available at a Auto parts store
The means to wash the parts clean after lapping. A bucket of Kerosene is fine.

The Idea is to use the abrasive to grind down the high spots of the head and the cylinders till they are perfectly flat. See the pictures.*

* The process move the part over the surface of the Lapp in a figure 8 motion
* * *Clean and inspect your progress often. Shown is a partially cleaned surface

* *Here are the completed two parts.


You are now ready for reassembly. Clean the old head gasket with lacquer thinner and Scotch brute or steel wool. Then repaint it with 1 coat of spray enamel on both sides (1 coat)
After assembly increase the Head Bolt torque to 40 lbs. ft.

Now’s a good time to degree you cams.*

[fuel664]

cam chain on ex250 runs along the side of engine
now ive heard of people spray painting head gaskets to reuse and some have gotten away with it while others havnt. my boss tryed that with his 350 chevy boat engine and ended up having to buy a new head gasket, because it just blew out the paint, he also didnt level the head. but i suppose it would work for temp gasket. i just figured the high compression of the ninja would be to much for paint. but ill give it a shot

[Ghostt]

Apples vs oranges two total different head gasket types, automotive ones are made a a compressible material, while the Ninjette is not.

Lapping is the most important part.

[fuel664]

thank you ghostt wish i knew that before i bought new one. so just to clarify, if i blow the head gasket on my ninja i can just clean then level and paint gasket again and its good to go?

[Ghostt]

In most cases yes, lapping too of the head and cylinder, assuming nothing else is wrong, like cracked head, cylinder etc....


Reuse the old head gasket by cleaning it with laquer thinner and steel wool till it shines. Then re-spay a single coat of any color paint on each side No 2 coats will not be better.

Lap both the head and cylinders Critical

[fuel664]

head gasket definitely crushes down. new one has raised ring around cylinders and another along the exterior edge of the head. sorry but i wouldnt trust just paint for permanent replacment. not saying it wont work but, not worth the effort to find out. and old gasket has the lines in it that folow the same path. but they are both aftermarket , from last time when i changed the pistons. and for some reason my cam chain was increably stretched, last time getting cams in and out for timming was easy. this time not so much.

[fuel664]

so still not starting. i have replaced cam chain, valves (seated them as well), cam shafts, double and triple checked everything. timming is spot on, i have spark, compresson on cylinder #1-120 psi, #2 has 150 psi. not sure why its so high. if i sit on the starter it floods the engine and exhaust reaks of gas. every now and then ill get a stutter but hen goes back to just trying to turn over. honestly im out of ideas, so is my dad (he used to work on generators in the air force, and worked part time at the auto hobby shop) any ideas?

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by fuel664

so still not starting. i have replaced cam chain, valves (seated them as well), cam shafts, double and triple checked everything. timming is spot on, i have spark, compresson on cylinder #1-120 psi, #2 has 150 psi. not sure why its so high. if i sit on the starter it floods the engine and exhaust reaks of gas. every now and then ill get a stutter but hen goes back to just trying to turn over. honestly im out of ideas, so is my dad (he used to work on generators in the air force, and worked part time at the auto hobby shop) any ideas?

I wouldn't call 150 PSI high. I'd call the 120 PSI low

with a 12:1 compression ratio you should be seeing 180-200 psi or so.

http://www.healey6.com/Technical/Nom...20pressure.pdf

[Ghostt]

Carburetors.

[fuel664]

sorry should have clarified, 120 and 150 psi dry (no oil in cylinders) on a cold engine. last year i had 120 psi dry on both, i cant remember what wet was. that was enough to get it started and run though. ill try cleaning the carbs tomorrow and throw some more fresh gas in.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by fuel664

sorry should have clarified, 120 and 150 psi dry (no oil in cylinders) on a cold engine. last year i had 120 psi dry on both, i cant remember what wet was. that was enough to get it started and run though. ill try cleaning the carbs tomorrow and throw some more fresh gas in.

If your in carburetor needs PM @ducatiman