Why does this Ninjette turn so weirdly?

[Roark]

A friend of mine has an '02 Ninjette with about 14,000 miles. I rode it recently and quickly noticed a few differences from my '07 Ninjette:

First, the whole steering assembly just feels heavier.

Second, when turning, at any speed, the bars seem to grab and tip past a certain angle of steering/lean. The steering would be heavy, and then it would randomly grab and make the whole thing lighter, so that I'd have to counter-counter steer to keep from slamming the thing into the ground!

Now, my initial thought was that it needs tires. BT45s, decent tread, adequately aired, with no noticeable cupping. Then I checked through the steering assembly, and it seems everything is tightened with no obvious blockages.

However, I don't know how old those tires are, even though they're in decent shape.. Could old tires in general cause this? Maybe it sat for a while, developed some hard spots or something?

I've also read that the forks could be bent, the steering bearings could be overtightened, and a few other potential causes, but it seemed that all of those caused much greater symptoms!

Any ideas?

*Edit*: what makes it worse is that this is my friend's first bike, so he doesn't notice the issue.. (or maybe he's just not that observant! )

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Roark

.......... Any ideas?

*Edit*: what makes it worse is that this is my friend's first bike, so he doesn't notice the issue.. (or maybe he's just not that observant! )

These are the main probably causes:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Steerin...ng_replacement

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Servicing_the_swingarm

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Uni_Tra...ge_Lubrication

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...he_fork_oil%3F

He should also check the three bolts that hold the engine.
If those are loose, the whole frame wobbles.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Roark

*Edit*: what makes it worse is that this is my friend's first bike, so he doesn't notice the issue.. (or maybe he's just not that observant! )

Ignorance is bliss. I have seem some riders ride the balls off some pretty messed up equipment. why they don't complain but they make it work.

Check for shock stiction/issues, front and rear as it can change the bikes handling drastically and quickly like you describe.

Have another look and ensure it's not a safety issue for your friend. If so, tell him so he don't get hurt. Otherwise... let it go.

[greg737]

Maybe the forks have been messed with. If they're mounted too high or too low in the triple clamp it will change the steering angle.

The "slow, slow, then suddenly fast" steering tendency you mention sounds like forks mounted too low in the triple clamp.

[fishdip]

Sounds like you need to work on your riding skill's more.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Sounds like you need to work on your riding skill's more.

not sure if intentionally or unintentionally unhelpful

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Motofool

These are the main probably causes:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Steerin...ng_replacement

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Servicing_the_swingarm

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Uni_Tra...ge_Lubrication

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...he_fork_oil%3F

He should also check the three bolts that hold the engine.
If those are loose, the whole frame wobbles.

Thank you for the links, Motofool.. I'll be sure to relay the information. Hopefully I can diagnose the issue!

[Roark]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Ignorance is bliss. I have seem some riders ride the balls off some pretty messed up equipment. why they don't complain but they make it work.

Check for shock stiction/issues, front and rear as it can change the bikes handling drastically and quickly like you describe.

Have another look and ensure it's not a safety issue for your friend. If so, tell him so he don't get hurt. Otherwise... let it go.

I don't think it's the shocks, only because the issue is consistent at every speed on any type of road (gravel, asphalt, dirt) and incline. However, I'll check anyways! Hopefully it'll resolve the issue.

And you're right.. I may just have to let it go. It worries me that he didn't notice the difference, considering he's eventually gonna move up to a 600cc supersport, but I may just have to let it go.. Can't convince someone they're feeling something that they don't know they're feeling!

[Roark]

Originally Posted by greg737

Maybe the forks have been messed with. If they're mounted too high or too low in the triple clamp it will change the steering angle.

The "slow, slow, then suddenly fast" steering tendency you mention sounds like forks mounted too low in the triple clamp.

That sounds perfect!! And seems to be easy to check. Thank you!!

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by Roark

not sure if intentionally or unintentionally unhelpful

It's fishdip. What do you think? :-)

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Roark

Thank you for the links, Motofool.. I'll be sure to relay the information. Hopefully I can diagnose the issue!

You are welcome

[verboten1]

My wife's bike sucks. I hate riding it now. Same issue, it just feels weird, and everything seems fine.

She likes it, has no problems, so I'm fine with it as well!

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by verboten1

My wife's bike sucks. I hate riding it now. Same issue, it just feels weird, and everything seems fine.

She likes it, has no problems, so I'm fine with it as well!

Good answer!

Sometimes different feels, well, different.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Roark

not sure if intentionally or unintentionally unhelpful

You need to work on your riding skills at a slower speed.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by fishdip

You need to work on your riding skills at a slower speed.

maybe you misspelled writing.. because my penmanship is pretty horrible

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Roark

maybe you misspelled writing.. because my penmanship is pretty horrible

Ask your self this "would the doctor have a hard time riding it" If no then work on your skills more.

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Ask your self this "would the doctor have a hard time riding it" If no then work on your skills more.

Everyone should always be working on their skills.

[MrAtom]

Sorry @fishdip. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings :-(

[verboten1]

My feelings are so hurt now.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Motofool

You are welcome

I understand that you find the other 7 posts of mine fishy and unhelpful, @fishdip, ...... but what can be wrong with my previous "You are welcome"?

Originally Posted by verboten1

My feelings are so hurt now.

Mine too !!!

[Finesse]

didnt read the other replies...

steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, tires, clutch or throttle cables catching in the steering stem/triple tree.....

["A"]

Have you checked the tire pressure?

[Roark]

Originally Posted by "A"

Have you checked the tire pressure?

I took his word that they've been adequately aired. He ordered new tires yesterday. Whenever he gets them mounted, maybe the problem will be solved!

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Finesse

didnt read the other replies...

steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, tires, clutch or throttle cables catching in the steering stem/triple tree.....

Steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, and bent/misaligned fork are the main suspects now. Thank you!

[Roark]

@fishdip.. just you wait until I'm at 1000.. u git no respct bro

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by Roark

@fishdip.. just you wait until I'm at 1000.. u git no respct bro

Is that why you're replying to everyone in different posts instead of just multiquoting?

[snapshot]

I'd check the air pressure in the front tire.

Test riding a few machines, I've noticed that they tend to tip in hard at low speeds when the front tire air pressure is low.

Ride on,

J~

[xorbe]

Steering stem bearings are a popular upgrade at the N300 forum for steering feel.

[spooph]

As Finesse posted, check for anything binding, it sounds almost like a cable is catching somewhere and then the steering tension eases up when the cable or whatever rides over what it's being caught on.

I had a bike with rusted out steering head bearings, and the symptoms were very similar. I would check those steering head bearings ASAP. My bike eventually got so bad as it would lock up mid turn and you'd have to break the bars free to continue the turn (makes you realize how much you change your steering inputs through a turn when all of a sudden you can't) and scary as hell. Also mondo dangerous... So, make sure your buddy gets his bike checked out - removing the triple trees isn't that hard if you have stands/a way to support the bike...

[Roark]

Originally Posted by spooph

As Finesse posted, check for anything binding, it sounds almost like a cable is catching somewhere and then the steering tension eases up when the cable or whatever rides over what it's being caught on.

I had a bike with rusted out steering head bearings, and the symptoms were very similar. I would check those steering head bearings ASAP. My bike eventually got so bad as it would lock up mid turn and you'd have to break the bars free to continue the turn (makes you realize how much you change your steering inputs through a turn when all of a sudden you can't) and scary as hell. Also mondo dangerous... So, make sure your buddy gets his bike checked out - removing the triple trees isn't that hard if you have stands/a way to support the bike...

@spooph, thank you, sir.

I'll be seeing him tonight.. adding it to the list

[Jono]

How is the front suspension? Are the forks lowered? Maybe Raised?

My guess is that the steering stem bolt is too tight. Or the ring nut below the top triple is too tight.