Winterizing Bike

[Kurgan]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Absolutely not. That's a terrible thing to do when you are storing an engine.

Running for 30 minutes in a garage isn't going to get the oil up to operating temp. It may get the coolant up to operating temp, but in the process is contaminating the previously fresh oil with unburned fuel, moisture, and acids.

It takes 30 minutes of real riding in warm temps to bring the oil up to operating temp (200F +). Running in the garage in cold temps won't even get it close.

Full Choke + Cold temps = 5000+ RPM "idle" once it warms up a bit and the oil loosens up. You can literally hear the idle speed ramp up once it warms up.

If you're really worried about "contaminated oil", you do more damage to the oil during a normal ride hitting high RPM than you would by letting it run choked up for 30 minutes.

Plus you can always change the oil again at the start of riding season, it's not like oil or the filters are prohibitively expensive, even if you're using Royal Purple.

There's no way I will ever let gas high in ethanol sit in my carbs for long periods of time ever again. Even gas mixed with stabil turns into a dark copper green sludge that clogs everything up once those float bowls evaporate.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

There's no way I will ever let gas high in ethanol sit in my carbs for long periods of time ever again. Even gas mixed with stabil turns into a dark copper green sludge that clogs everything up once those float bowls evaporate.

So you're going to let it sit in your tank over winter? I doubt you're going through a full tank just by idling a few times a winter.


No. Drain it. Let it sit. Put it under a cover and/or do all the maintenance you need. Then make friends with it again in the spring. If the ethanol bothers you, make a point to get ethanol free before you stabilize and put away for the winter.

If you're really worried about "contaminated oil", you do more damage to the oil during a normal ride hitting high RPM than you would by letting it run choked up for 30 minutes.

Please qualify this statement.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Full Choke + Cold temps = 5000+ RPM "idle" once it warms up a bit and the oil loosens up. You can literally hear the idle speed ramp up once it warms up.

If you're really worried about "contaminated oil", you do more damage to the oil during a normal ride hitting high RPM than you would by letting it run choked up for 30 minutes.

Plus you can always change the oil again at the start of riding season, it's not like oil or the filters are prohibitively expensive, even if you're using Royal Purple.

There's no way I will ever let gas high in ethanol sit in my carbs for long periods of time ever again. Even gas mixed with stabil turns into a dark copper green sludge that clogs everything up once those float bowls evaporate.

I absolutely don't agree with anything except the part about gas with ethanol sitting in the carbs!

[csmith12]

Have your dealer do some simple, cheap service = free storage over the coldest winter month. lol.... hahahahahahha

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I can beat $400 all day long by storing it myself.... $400 would buy, what, new tires, plus enough oil and other supplies to maintain the bike for a year, plus at least part of a track day? Something like that. Every year. I know which I'd choose.

For someone with zero options for storage -- as in living in an apartment in a sketchy neighborhood -- then maybe. Even then I'd go a long way to avoid paying hundreds of dollars to store a bike.

Personally, I could only justify paying if it was an expensive bike. We all love our motorcycles, but hey, the Ninjette is an entry level machine.

I agree, I'm just offering another solution. $400 is a cheaper solution to building a whole garage to store the bike in. Also, I'm not sure if a land lord would appreciate a motorcycle in their living room

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

Also, I'm not sure if a land lord would appreciate a motorcycle in their living room

I am not sure that applies, they don't really get the choice unless it written into the rental/lease agreement. ijs

Exhibit A

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Full Choke + Cold temps = 5000+ RPM "idle" once it warms up a bit and the oil loosens up. You can literally hear the idle speed ramp up once it warms up.

If you're really worried about "contaminated oil", you do more damage to the oil during a normal ride hitting high RPM than you would by letting it run choked up for 30 minutes.

Plus you can always change the oil again at the start of riding season, it's not like oil or the filters are prohibitively expensive, even if you're using Royal Purple.

There's no way I will ever let gas high in ethanol sit in my carbs for long periods of time ever again. Even gas mixed with stabil turns into a dark copper green sludge that clogs everything up once those float bowls evaporate.

And you think that is good for an engine?

High RPMs and hot oil are not an issue for oil or wear, especially with a synthetic oil. Cold starts that include high RPMs are. 5000 is way too high for an engine to run when it (and the oil) are cold. Do some research and you will see at what point wear is the greatest.

What a waste changing the oil again would be. Just change the oil and filter before storing, run it for 10 seconds, and don't start it again until you are ready to ride.

Anything else is unnecessary and is counter productive to protecting the engine during storage.

[Kurgan]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Please qualify this statement.

A high RPM run near redline is actually stretching the connecting rods out just a bit and is letting unburned fuel blow by the piston rings because the rings are in uncharted or little used territory and don't have a proper seal way up there above the normal travel range.

This happens in all 4 stroke engines, even the ones using the absolute best internal parts.

The only way to get a reliable piston ring seal at redline is if you've been doing it consistently.

Originally Posted by jkv45

And you think that is good for an engine?

High RPMs and hot oil are not an issue for oil or wear, especially with a synthetic oil. Cold starts that include high RPMs are. 5000 is way too high for an engine to run when it (and the oil) are cold.

The engine doesn't reach 5Krpm until it finally starts to warm up and get reliable spark and combustion going and the parts lubed up, meaning the OIL is getting hot, not the coolant.

And trust me, the amount of people that actually wait the full period of warmup time after they start the bike but before they ride are few and far between. I sure as hell don't wait for 30 minutes of idling before I ride, and I hit way higher than 5000 rpm during the first few minutes of a ride. You can't help but rev that high because the bike is geared so stupidly short.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I am not sure that applies, they don't really get the choice unless it written into the rental/lease agreement. ijs

Really? That's awesome! lol

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

If you're really worried about "contaminated oil", you do more damage to the oil during a normal ride hitting high RPM than you would by letting it run choked up for 30 minutes.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Please qualify this statement.

Originally Posted by Kurgan

A high RPM run near redline is actually stretching the connecting rods out just a bit and is letting unburned fuel blow by the piston rings because the rings are in uncharted or little used territory and don't have a proper seal way up there above the normal travel range.

This happens in all 4 stroke engines, even the ones using the absolute best internal parts.

The only way to get a reliable piston ring seal at redline is if you've been doing it consistently.

...can you understand how you're not answering the same question I'm asking here? Please just look at the string of interactions.

You mentioned damage to oil, comparing two scenarios. I asked you to explain/back up/prove/convince me of the correctness of your statement. You then launched into rod stretch...

I'm not asking about rods. I'm asking why you think oil gets damaged when it's not up to temp... Only thing that's at risk during a cool oil situation is your parts, not the oil. Your oil heats much more slowly than your coolant. Overheating and chemical impurity is what damages oil viscosity and its additives. Particulate and improper (read: low pressures, wrong viscosity, etc) lubrication is what damages parts. Why would you ever run the engine intentionally by only idling it? That does not get your oil up to temp properly and is a shot on goal for engine damage. Not saying it WILL damage the engine, just that you're putting yourself at increased risk of damage for no reason.

Winterize it and let it sit. Again, the film strength and vapor pressure of your engine oil will make sure that every surface of every part stays coated with a thin film of oil while the bike sits. Nothing will oxidize during winter storage. Drain the fuel system or fill with ethanol free fuel before storage if ethanol bothers you. If the oil film thing bothers you, most oil companies make a storage oil or storage additive that has a very high vapor pressure and will make sure that an engine case gets coated evenly just by oil vapor spreading throughout the case while being stored.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

...I'm not sure if a landlord would appreciate a motorcycle in their living room.

I'd be OK with it as long as the bike didn't leave any marks on the carpet and didn't make the unit smell like gas or oil.

For the 2nd floor tenants: more power to 'em.

[cadd]

Don't start bike during storage. Let the bike hibernate. Don't worry about your stabilized gas gumming up your carbs. I've had unstablized gas in my snowblower the entire summer and it still started right up the next winter. It takes much longer than 3 months for gas to "go bad".

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Even gas mixed with Stabil turns into a dark copper green sludge that clogs everything up once those float bowls evaporate.

This is the first time I've seen this problem acknowledged anywhere! No one knew what I was talking about or why I would have a green residue in my carbs! But; it was more like an epoxy coating that coated & plugged up everything!

I had the bike parked for a year and over winter with a healthy pour of Stabil run through the fuel system. I finally decided to convert the bike to a race bike and do the jetting set up for my local tracks. When I pulled the carbs & opened them up; the bowls, jets & passages were plugged with the green skin. I tried everything to dissolve the crud! A 12 hour carb cleaner soak did nothing! Lacquer thinner barely softened it at all! Professional paint stripper finally turned it into a sticky (pardon the description!) snot consistency that eventually allowed me to scrub it off with another 8 hours of intense labour! It was the weekend, no access to a professional carb service (hot tank, soda, etc.) and I had to get it done by Sunday evening or I'd miss the next track day!

What a pain in the arse!

I should probably make this a PSA in a maintenance thread. The point is: don't over pour Stabil. More is not necessarily better!

[choneofakind]

^^ but that took over a year.

I've had it stored for up to 9 months at a time. Always followed the directions and measured Stabil out so I had the right ratio per gallon. Never had green gumming issues.

[SLOWn60]

....follow directions?

If a little is good then a lot must be better!
I may have misread and added the recommended gallon ratio to litres!