I had a CLOSE call the other day (got it on video)

[Brian]

This is probably my number one fear to happen when I'm on my bike...Luckily if you look closely you can see the front tires turn in when I rev-bombed him so I'm hoping my exhaust helped him see me last second. I could have been going a little bit slower, but I have no respect for a moron who doesn't use his blinker and just jams into a lane whenever they please.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Sirref]

that was the most retarded reaction you could have had

instead of brake or accelerate you coast and revbomb, even IF he hears you (your exhaust is pointed backwards not forwards) it takes time for the driver to react.
there was almost no avoidance maneuver here other than just casually moving over to space that will soon be occupied and hoping for the best. Had you braked as you noticed the jeep you could have stopped at that point (assuming proper braking technique)
or the other option which would be to accelerate through, i.e. get through the gap as quickly as possible before it closes which is more of a last ditch effort to avoid collision when you're too close and you know you don't have time or space to brake. Those two options were available and yet you did neither

[Brian]

I agree, but I knew I was in his blind spot and was hoping he would eventually see me. I don't think pulling the brakes here would have been great for me. I was going a too fast and he would have completely stopped in the middle of the road when he saw me in panic, thus me fixating on him and probably rear ending him. Also, accelerating out of it would have probably left me going even faster and going through that small gap would have been more of an obstacle than a safety net.

[ForceofWill]

Why didn't you just hit the horn? Pulling the clutch in just limits your options.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

Why didn't you just hit the horn? Pulling the clutch in just limits your options.

It was just a reflex type of thing I don't use my horn as much as I should

[M42]

Originally Posted by Brian

was hoping he would eventually see me

Notice the problem? Your reaction is completely passive. You need to actively mitigate the developing situation instead of hoping that a crap-for-brains, macchiata-in-one-hand, unmentionables-in-the-other driver notices you. Never assume somebody's gonna see you, never assume their molasses-like reflexes will spare you bodily harm. Learn how to emergency brake/swerve properly until it's an instinct.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by M42

Notice the problem? Your reaction is completely passive. You need to actively mitigate the developing situation instead of hoping that a crap-for-brains, macchiata-in-one-hand, unmentionables-in-the-other driver notices you. Never assume somebody's gonna see you, never assume their molasses-like reflexes will spare you bodily harm. Learn how to emergency brake/swerve properly until it's an instinct.

I completely agree. I can say for one thing next time I will look for a better way out. Instinct / reflex took over even when I knew what I should be doing simply because it happened so fast.

[capt_bugaloo]

If you see a lineup of cars on the left like that, just plodding along slowly, you should expect that one of them is going to get impatient and move into the empty right lane.

Speed doesn't kill, speed differential kills. I don't understand why you would pass them on the right side at a much higher rate of speed, leaving yourself little time to react.

Just my humble opinion, but I would have slowed right down as I reached the pack of cars and passed them at a slower rate, ready for one of them to jump out without looking first.

[Sirref]

^ pretty much that, you should have never found yourself in that situation in the first place since you should have known to be aware

I still maintain that your reaction after finding yourself in that situation was bad as well

[choneofakind]

Not to mention, you're moving too quickly for the slow traffic. He flat out didn't see you and couldn't see you. Look how far back you are when he starts changing lanes. He had already started when you made your little arrow pop up on him.

From his perspective, some jackass crotchrocket rider just shot a gap between his front bumper and the curb at a high rate of speed, and was really loud as he went by.


Closing speeds are dangerous, you put yourself in a bad position. That whole thing was avoidable, and your reaction did nothing to minimize the possible outcome. If he'd been changing lanes quicker, you would have splatted into him at the same speed as when you saw him pull out. Instead of revving, try things that reduce potential damage, like the brakes.


Additionally, don't ever coast on the highway like you did at the end of the video. Ever. Keep it in gear as much as possible. Coasting is for that awkwardly low speed where 2nd is too tall and you're too lazy to shift to 1st.

EDIT: double ninja'd

[Brian]

Trust me, I'm used to this sh** all over the city.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Not to mention, you're moving too quickly for the slow traffic. He flat out didn't see you and couldn't see you. Look how far back you are when he starts changing lanes. He had already started when you made your little arrow pop up on him.

I already mentioned that I was moving a little too fast, and I understand that. I was in a little bit of a rush, but it happens and it's not an excuse.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

From his perspective, some jackass crotchrocket rider just shot a gap between his front bumper and the curb at a high rate of speed, and was really loud as he went by.

You're seriously taking his side Chone? He doesn't own a perspective simply because HE is the guy who did the wrong thing. I don't care what he thinks about my bike or that I "shot a gab between his front bumper". If he just used his goddamn blinker 80% of his mistake would have been justified.

[choneofakind]

No, it's not about taking sides. I'm telling you that your actions were wrong and giving you perspective so you remember that everyone sees the same situation differently.


you were moving way too fast. he didn't use a blinker.

end result: you saw an idiot make a terrible lane change and 'try to kill you', while he saw an idiot on a crotch rocket recklessly shoot a tiny gap at a high speed.


You were moving fast enough that he did NOT see you, even if we assume he DID do a head check. Because at that point, you were so far behind him, you weren't in sight and weren't a threat to the space he was looking to move into. 100% of this would have been avoided if you'd been moving slower. You never should have ended up in that situation in the first place.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

100% of this would have been avoided if you'd been moving slower.

Watch my video again... Even if I was going under the speed limit (look at my speedo, I was going 40-45mph in a 40) He still committed to the turn way too late. I don't want to say braking wouldn't have helped but in some situations it's best to find a way out smoothly. He most likely would have froze like a deer leaving me almost 10-15 feet to brake completely.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Brian

Trust me, I'm used to this sh** all over the city.

I already mentioned that I was moving a little too fast, and I understand that. I was in a little bit of a rush, but it happens and it's not an excuse.

You're seriously taking his side Chone? He doesn't own a perspective simply because HE is the guy who did the wrong thing. I don't care what he thinks about my bike or that I "shot a gab between his front bumper". If he just used his goddamn blinker 80% of his mistake would have been justified.

You don't understand, it doesn't matter who's in the wrong you're the one who ends up in the ground. Bikes don't win in collisions with cars, it just doesn't happen.

"this **** all over the city" is normal driving, if there is an open lane and slow traffic then it is inevitable that someone will take the opportunity to fill the space. It's basically a rule of the road. Regardless of if someone is using a blinker to merge or not you have to yield to them. In this case your speed was critical to the equation, the driver probably did a head check and may have even seen you but you were so far behind that he thought the space was open for him to take. It is dumb to travel in gross excess of the pace of traffic for this reason unless you have multiple escape routes at hand which in this case not only did you not but you didn't even properly react to the situation despite ample time being provided for you to brake and match the driver's speed.

Btw, if this had turned into an accident then you'd have been at fault for failing to control the speed of your motorcycle to avoid an accident. This regardless of merging without the use of a blinker which is a minor infringement at best.

[Sirref]

also, being in a bit of a rush is a bad mentality to have when you're on a motorcycle. The last thing you need is to feel as though you have to ride at a faster than normal pace, because then you open yourself up to mistakes. In general it is a bad thing to feel rushed while operating a motor vehicle but on a motorcycle where your life/serious injury is at stake it's significantly worse.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

Watch my video again... Even if I was going under the speed limit (look at my speedo, I was going 40-45mph in a 40) He still committed to the turn way too late. I don't want to say braking wouldn't have helped but in some situations it's best to find a way out smoothly. He most likely would have froze like a deer leaving me almost 10-15 feet to brake completely.

It doesn't matter what the speed limit of the road was. What did we say above? Closing speed, or speed differential, is what's dangerous. Traffic was moving slowly, you have no reason to be moving 45 mph one lane over. 35 mph speed differential is huge and you set yourself up to be cut off badly doing that.

Again, you were moving fast enough relative to him that when he did his shoulder check and found a clear lane, you were no where in sight. In the ~1 second it took him to get to a lane change and make a move, you were on him. Who was in charge of setting their speed here? you. Who should not have been closing on slow traffic that quickly? you. Who put themself in unnecessary danger just because they were running a little close on time? you. Who's in charge of keeping them self safe by knowing what's going on around them while they ride? you.

Seeing a pattern here? If you're in charge, you should take some responsibility and ride smarter. Don't rely on making tons of noise. don't rely on other drivers seeing you eventually. Rely on riding smart. be defensive, not reactive. This video shows a poor reaction and not a shred of caution.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

also, being in a bit of a rush is a bad mentality to have when you're on a motorcycle. The last thing you need is to feel as though you have to ride at a faster than normal pace, because then you open yourself up to mistakes. In general it is a bad thing to feel rushed while operating a motor vehicle but on a motorcycle where your life/serious injury is at stake it's significantly worse.

I know this, no need to beat a dead horse... I have no other way of getting to work currently than riding in which is awesome on a day I don't need to rush otherwise I would have taken the car.

[Sirref]

Needing to rush from place to place is a sign of poor time management, I won't pry farther on that point but I will say this.

You can structure your time in a way that makes it so that you are never rushed.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

It doesn't matter what the speed limit of the road was. What did we say above? Closing speed, or speed differential, is what's dangerous. Traffic was moving slowly, you have no reason to be moving 45 mph one lane over. 35 mph speed differential is huge and you set yourself up to be cut off badly doing that.

Again, you were moving fast enough relative to him that when he did his shoulder check and found a clear lane, you were no where in sight. In the ~1 second it took him to get to a lane change and make a move, you were on him. Who was in charge of setting their speed here? you. Who should not have been closing on slow traffic that quickly? you. Who put themself in unnecessary danger just because they were running a little close on time? you. Who's in charge of keeping them self safe by knowing what's going on around them while they ride? you.

Seeing a pattern here? If you're in charge, you should take some responsibility and ride smarter. Don't rely on making tons of noise. don't rely on other drivers seeing you eventually. Rely on riding smart. be defensive, not reactive. This video shows a poor reaction and not a shred of caution.

I can't say I'm not agreeing with what you said but it already happened and I agree the outcome could have been worse if it was another situation. There's no need to keep saying the same thing, it will come in time, this is still only my first riding season. It was just my reflex.

What I don't agree with is how you guys say it's absolutely my fault. I get it, "ride like your invisible" sadly there are always idiots who will ruin your day and catch you on edge. It was a combination of
1. him not seeing me
2. my speed
3. my reflex

but guess what? still avoided him.

The blame is all on him because it was his mistake. I know I was going a little faster than I should of, sad to say it, but everyone speeds, it's the most common thing on the road. Just goes to show how you guys like to pick out everything wrong I did with out even pointing out what an idiot he is. This forum amuses me.

[choneofakind]

...I don't even know what to say to that brilliant logic. I'm just... wow. I'm baffled.

I'm done dude.

[Sirref]

1.whether or not he sees you is irrelevant if you're traveling significantly faster than him. You don't understand his perspective at all

He looks over, sees a bike way back but nothing else and the bike is numerous car lengths back at this point so it's all open space that he can merge into. He isn't looking long enough to watch your speed, because no one really does that. He has no way of knowing that you're traveling at a rate of speed that will cause you to catch up to him in the time it will take him to merge into the lane, in fact by the time you did catch up to him the lane was legally his because more than 75% of his vehicle was within the lane he was claiming. As stated before the only thing he did that was illegal or dumb was to merge without the use of a blinker, which is a minor offense at worst. Officers only pull people over for that if they're trying to find excuses to pull the person over.

2.your speed was the largest problem in this situation, flat out you were riding too quick for the conditions.

3.your reflexes? you literally did nothing with an eternity to work with, there were no reflexes there which goes to further the proof that you were riding too fast for the conditions.


just because you avoided a worst case scenario this time doesn't mean you will in the future

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

just because you avoided a worst case scenario this time doesn't mean you will in the future

...my reflex was pulling in the clutch and riding it out smoothly because I didn't see any immediate danger in doing that, I wasn't going uncontrollably fast, just glad I didn't fixate on his rear bumper

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Brian

The blame is all on him because it was his mistake. I know I was going a little faster than I should of, sad to say it, but everyone speeds, it's the most common thing on the road. Just goes to show how you guys like to pick out everything wrong I did with out even pointing out what an idiot he is. This forum amuses me.

you cannot be serious

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...I don't even know what to say to that brilliant logic. I'm just... wow. I'm baffled.

I'm done dude.

Unfortunately so am I, not much you can do when people ignore solid logic. It has happened before and it will happen again, though it is always unfortunate when it does occur.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Brian

...my reflex was pulling in the clutch and riding it out smoothly because I didn't see any immediate danger in doing that, I wasn't going uncontrollably fast, just glad I didn't fixate on his rear bumper

even that you did slowly

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

you cannot be serious



Unfortunately so am I, not much you can do when people ignore solid logic. It has happened before and it will happen again, though it is always unfortunate when it does occur.

SOLID LOGIC? You guys are being extremely stubborn. How about a "Wow, what an idiot that was, maybe next time try to use your brakes and find a better way out" instead of "Dude, you did EVERYTHING wrong and absolutely 100% NOTHING right".

Maybe it's the truth but try to make your criticism constructive instead of destructive, you guys know a lot and I'm glad to hear it but damn there's just TOO much bashing.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

even that you did slowly

HAHAHA what? Get your eyes checked out. I pulled in the split-second I saw his tires face my lane

[Sirref]

I criticize my own riding with a level of harshness that you would likely find cruel, what I'm providing you is a significantly toned down version of how I criticize my own riding (and really everything else that I do as well)

The problem with "wow what an idiot, maybe next time you should .... ...." is that you're still placing the responsibility on the driver and not yourself.
The fact of the matter is that you put yourself in a sketchy situation and then when it unfolded as said sketchy situation you were not prepared to react to it in a meaningful way. To the very end you relied on the driver to keep you out of harms way rather than performing an action, such as braking, to ensure your safety.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Brian

HAHAHA what? Get your eyes checked out. I pulled in the split-second I saw his tires face my lane

your reaction, which was to rev bomb was incredibly slow. Pulling the clutch in does effectively nothing therefore it is not a reaction that matters, by the time you pulled the throttle you were on the jeep's ass.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

your reaction, which was to rev bomb was incredibly slow. Pulling the clutch in does effectively nothing therefore it is not a reaction that matters, by the time you pulled the throttle you were on the jeep's ass.

Oh, the rev bombing wasn't for him to see me, just me giving him my middle finger using the exhaust. luckily it did do something last second, if you watch the slow-mo part I added in and pause it to when I look over at the hood you can see his front tires are faced straight, and not in the direction of the lane anymore.

[Sirref]

Alright I'm going to end my participation in this thread with a closing statement.

Congratulations, you handed your life to someone else who may or may not have been paying attention. Luckily it worked out for you, but is that really something that should ever be done?

just think about it a bit, you could have died or been seriously injured and it would never matter who's fault it was. Petty arguments over fault mean nothing when you're dead, but I'll reiterate you would have been legally at fault for that incident if it had been a collision.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Congratulations, you handed your life to someone else who may or may not have been paying attention. Luckily it worked out for you, but is that really something that should ever be done?

Yes, Sirref.

I aspire to be like this guy when I'm older:

[LittleRedNinjette]

[subxero]

skipped most of the comments but what Chone said, you are traveling to fast for the situation. seemingly close to double the speed of other traffic, in the city.

This is not an excuse but more of a be extra careful thing, anyone who drives cars/trucks in crazy city traffic understands how hard and even dangerous it is to give your blind spot a very thorough check. In that fraction of a second the guy in front of you just stopped and then you rear end them. That being said, expect people not to see you as the norm

Also,

In any city it is expected for drivers not to use their turn signals. In greater DC, MD, VA it is actually a strategy to not use your signal to make moves in traffic because if you put on your signal it is to passive and other drivers will see that you want to get over and actually block you and make sure you can't because it is "their space"

In short slow down

[capt_bugaloo]

Like I wrote above, speed doesn't kill, speed differential kills.

Look at the cars in the video and compare them to the white lines. They are barely moving, perhaps 5 mph. You say you are riding 40 mph, a differential of 35 mph. Your riding skills should look and say, if one of these cars bolts from the left to the right to grab the empty lane, I will be hitting a solid metal object at 35 mph.

Also, the average motorcycle can stop from 30 mph in 30 feet, about two car lengths. Even at the speed differential you were doing, you should have been able to brake and stop with plenty of room.

You seem to be reacting very angrily to the comments. These comments are not meant to be hurtful - they are meant as constructive criticism. Hopefully you can gain something useful from them.

[DaveTheCanuck]

Originally Posted by Brian

Oh, the rev bombing wasn't for him to see me, just me giving him my middle finger using the exhaust.

Originally Posted by Brian

I rev-bombed him so I'm hoping my exhaust helped him see me last second.

Oh, ok.

Brian, I don't understand why you're being so defensive. Everyone here is trying to provide you with some constructive criticism that may very well save your life one day. The Jeep driver isn't here, we can call him an idiot all day for not taking the time to properly check his mirrors, but that gets you nowhere.

You were moving too fast relative to traffic.
You were not defending your lane.
You had ample time to slow down but instead chose to pull in your clutch, disabling a VITAL control in situations like this.
You chose to use your exhaust (facing away from the threat) instead of your horn (facing towards the threat) to alert the driver to your presence.
You placed yourself in an extremely dangerous position (between a vehicle and curb) leaving yourself nowhere to go should the vehicle keep moving over.

Learn from your mistakes and move on to live and ride another day

[jkv45]

That's absolutely a common issue that you should expect any time you come upon that type of situation (open lane next to stopped traffic).

Expect someone to jump over. The only question is who.

You did find the "out" and made it through, but the whole "rev-bombing" thing was a non-issue. He had no idea that you were there until you were past.

Slow down, move over to the right side of the lane, and be prepared to react.

I had a similar situation riding to work this morning. Long line of traffic in the left lane (2 lanes in my direction) that was mostly stopped. Just ahead I saw a large truck stop short of the car in front of him. I can't see anything, but I rolled off the gas and started a brake. A pickup cuts across right in front of me without looking to see if there's any traffic in the other (my) lane. If I had been going fast, didn't slow, or wasn't expecting a problem, it would have taken me out.

I expect issues and am prepared to react any time I'm in a heavy traffic situation, especially when there's a crowded lane and an open lane.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Brian

This is probably my number one fear to happen when I'm on my bike...Luckily if you look closely you can see the front tires turn in when I rev-bombed him so I'm hoping my exhaust helped him see me last second. I could have been going a little bit slower, but I have no respect for a moron who doesn't use his blinker and just jams into a lane whenever they please.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Never go faster then your brakes can be applied. Even if the speed limit was 75mph I never go faster then I can stop if a car cuts over like that. when traffic is moving slow like that you also need to slow down. I only do 10mph faster then the long bumper to bumper traffic is doing.

[Alex]

Brian - your flawed logic flows directly into your flawed riding. You need to work on both, or the outcome is inevitable.

[M42]

Originally Posted by Brian

but guess what? still avoided him.

The blame is all on him because it was his mistake.

This is an awful attitude to take. You shouldn't be riding motorcycles.

In a perfect world where 100% of drivers are 100% courteous 100% of the time, the blame would be on him. However, we live in a world where this type of driving is the norm, and unfortunately we have to take way more responsibility for our reactions to bad situations than the driver has to take for his stupid maneuvers. Yet here you are, kicking rocks in the corner, going NUH UH, IT WAS HIS FAULT, AND I ESCAPED ANYWAY, BIG DEAL while handwaving away all the advice people are giving you on how to become a better, safer rider. You can learn a lot about a person by the way they react to well deserved critique.

Maybe take some time off from riding and think about improving your attitude. You ain't gonna make it long with what you have now.

[LNasty]

He thinks this is a humerous forum. Go to another 250 or ninja forum and see the response you get with no TOC. I have seen threads on different forums and they will just rip you apart, not give you constructive criticism. Go ahead and don't listen to people on here. After watching the video I could already tell what was going to happen without you giving any sort of narrative. I was cringing, waiting for the car to bolt into your lane. With today's drivers it should be common sense to not just got hauling ass down an open lane while the rest of traffic is bumper to bumper. This is the same if you had been driving a car. Large percentage of accidents happen in this exact scenario. So don't listen to us, get defensive and mock the forum. Unfortunately we may hear one day that you T-boned a car going 50 mph. Good luck bud.