January 27th, 2014, 03:18 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Michael
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 4
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Never seen this before with a Carby issue
Hi All,
New Ninja owner and new to the forum, after mainly just reading threads I now require some help/info from anyone and everyone. Thanks in advance.
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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January 27th, 2014, 06:32 AM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Hmmm.... fuel, air, spark right...
You cleaned the carbs, so that is not it. Airbox & filter clear? Any vac leaks? Try the mist test. How bout the plugs? Other things that I have seen cause similar crap. Weak battery, faulty spark plug, a coil that was about to fail, odd acting ecu; crap stator and cracked spark plug wire/boot. I am getting the feeling you have a vac leak somewhere. Mist some carb cleaner around the vac hoses and listen. You will know when/if you find a leak.
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January 27th, 2014, 07:38 AM | #3 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Any chance the choke is stuck on? Air screws have a washer and an o-ring?
As Chris noted - what's the battery voltage? Plugs are correct? I'm assuming they are black, but take a look. Are both cylinders firing? Check the exhaust with a temp gauge if you have one. Check that the carb slides rise and fall smoothly by lifting them and letting them drop. |
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January 27th, 2014, 09:05 AM | #4 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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What's up with the exhaust?
Is there an airbox or pods on this bike? Any prior carb work done?(jetting changes) What's your engine idle speed? |
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January 27th, 2014, 10:02 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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As Blue noted, it does sound louder than stock. Has there been appropriate changes of jetting to compensate? Almost seems like the needles need to be raised.
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January 27th, 2014, 10:50 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Michael
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 4
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Thanks Guys,
Air filter is stock and has been cleaned New plugs fitted this morning but did not change a thing. They were heavily sooted though but I expected that as it seems to be fueling up at the low rpm. Battery is brand new It has a musarri slip on pipe which requires no jet change The choke is working perfectly Carb slides are working freely and has stock jetting I dont have a temp gun as of yet but it definately sounds like it drops to one cylinder when its up to sh it Today I have now worked out that it will run ok with the suction line to the petcock disconnected (until it runs out of fuel) so I thought that it might have a tear in the diaphragm and be sucking fuel straight into that line and therefore the left cylinder. Pulled it apart and all good. I can suck on it and no leaks so its not that. I have to block the line with my finger in order to maintain good idle or the extra air drops the idle naturally. If I leave it on PRI it runs too but then seems to over fuel then bog down again and do nothing. I cant understand why when I turn the fuel off and the bowl level comes down the bike runs perfectly! The float levels are perfect and the needles are seating spot on, nothing is sticking or bent etc. In my 20yrs playing with bikes I am officially stumped!!!!! Hoping someone might even jog my brain to find the answer as the last resort is the shop and well... that just costs money that can be spent on beer!! Cheers |
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January 28th, 2014, 07:51 AM | #7 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Could the needles be hanging-up and/or sitting too high - letting too much fuel in at small slide openings?
I would say you need to remove the carbs and go through them again at this point. |
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January 28th, 2014, 11:39 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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Does it still have the snorkel in? Some exhaust manufacturers say you don't need to rejet so noobs aren't scared to buy their products. I would say it has changed the A:F ratio and if it doesn't have the snorkel it would exaggerate this even more.
Have you checked the vacuum hoses? Also does it run better when cold or warm? |
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January 28th, 2014, 12:12 PM | #9 | ||
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Quote:
Despite the fact that your slip on exhaust said no rejetting is required, many perform better with a least shimming the needles and removing the snorkel. This can help with low idle problems and smooths out the rev range a bit, but is mainly beneficial to the midrange. Many of riders with 2008 models remedied their issues by shimming the stock needles and making sure the warm idle speed was set properly (1300 +/- 50 rpms) The diaphragms begin to move about 1/4 throttle (approx 3k rpms). If you bike runs fine after that, I would say shimming may help your problem provided you don't have a compression issue on one cylinder. |
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January 28th, 2014, 03:54 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Kevin
Location: Madison
Join Date: Apr 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 465
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On review of the video is does sound rich when it stumbles. Try turning the idle mixture screws in a full turn and see the result.
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January 29th, 2014, 05:24 PM | #11 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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Lean bogging. Motor is getting too much air and waiting for the needle/main to kick in. Clean the carbs again.
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February 9th, 2014, 01:21 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Michael
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 4
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Lack of power under 5k rpm
Hi,
This is an ongoing issue from my last post but I now have good idle it just has now power once under load? (runs ok above 5k rpm)
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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February 9th, 2014, 07:23 AM | #13 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Will
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Feb 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 (2001) Posts: 135
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Just to be sure, when you say you cleaned out the carbs -- did you take a small piece of copper wire or guitar string and clean out the small pilot circuit outlet and transition circuit outlets (see this page, halfway down)?
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February 9th, 2014, 02:31 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
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/merged them, so people can follow progress and understand what has been already tried.
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February 10th, 2014, 08:05 AM | #15 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Not perfectly clear to me if it's a lean or rich issue. I would add choke when it starts to run poorly to see if it makes it better or worse. That would confirm which it is.
I'd also put the snorkel back it. When you said adjusting the idle mixture screws didn't do anything, did that mean anything to change the issue - or anything at all? As Yarhj said - did you run something through all of the holes in the jets and jet holders? Did you remove the idle mixture screws and spray carb cleaner though the passages? Adjustment screws should have a washer and o-ring in addition to the spring. |
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February 10th, 2014, 07:09 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Michael
Location: Brisbane
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 4
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Yes I have been as thorough as I could ever be on cleaning a carb and have proven that all holes and ports are clear - hence my frustration!
It ran the same with the snorkle in, I just removed it as a Mod found from all the reading I have done. The mixture screw did what its supposed to when I wound it in by which it started dropping that cylinder from being too lean. O-rings etc are perfect. Im thinking the diaphragms are not lifting, then its a matter of why?? I am away atm but will check compression and vacuum for each cylinder and go from there... at $110 a diaphragm I want to make sure they are the issue first! |
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February 10th, 2014, 07:47 PM | #17 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Before buying a diaphragm I would pull off the airbox and watch the slides (with the engine running) and see if they raise when you blip the throttle.
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February 10th, 2014, 08:39 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Will
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Feb 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 (2001) Posts: 135
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Before spending $110 on a diaphragm, I'd consider buying an entire carburetor assembly off of ebay. You should end up with at least one usable diaphragm, you'll have the option to swap out the entire carb assembly, and you'll have all the spare parts you'll need if the problem isn't the diaphragm after all.
I'm not sure if you can use the pregen carb assembly on a newgen bike -- if so, there are some cheaper carbs available on ebay. |
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February 10th, 2014, 08:44 PM | #19 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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Michael,
I have a set of carbs that I can sell. I know they work and I can even sell them jetted, and/or with the factory pro kit if you'd like. PM me to talk. Let me think more on your issue. |
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