Downshifting for turns

[Gurk]

Whiskey, are you serious? Keith Code does talk about trailbraking on the dvd. wtf did you watch? Whatever it is, it surely isn't the dvd I've seen. lol

[alex.s]

lets break it down.

we agree there is a certain amount of risk involved in being immobile on a public street. (risk: not being able to get mobile quick enough when needed... when needed could be a variety of conditions such as runaway truck, automatic driver not paying attention, driver who doesnt see you in front, goes when they see green light)

we agree the amount of risk is very dependent on surroundings, and in some rare cases, almost non-existent.

we agree holding a lever for extended periods is annoying.



regardless of your personal justifications, you are putting yourself at risk (however small) in order to make your left arm more comfortable.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Very few cars here are automatic, so I didn't take that into consideration, different countries, different situations.
...........
What you do sounds right for the legal situation in the USA, I'd feel pretty vulnerable stopped at the back end of a line with more traffic coming up behind me (especially stuff the size of an Escalade or a dodge RAM...)

Here in the States we don't have that red-to-green warning, another important difference.

Many lights are purposely covered sideways, so you can't see when the crossing traffic is seeing a green-yellow-red.

The size of the approaching vehicle is less important to me than the speed and rate of deceleration, as well as what the face of the driver tells about his/her level of attention (many come flying at you and texting the same time).

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

I'm about 500 miles in on my 250 so far and I seem to be handling everything pretty well. One thing that I'm still not good at though is downshifting.

I guess I just haven't gotten used to when to downshift and the proper technique and although I haven't had any scary moments yet, I've done things that have felt "wrong" and felt like they could have been dangerous.

I have a bad habit of coming up on a turn, holding in the clutch, braking and then coasting through the turn with the clutch held in. After the turn, I let out the clutch. I know this isn't correct and could be bad news but I have it stuck in my head that you always hold in the clutch while you brake.

So let's saying I'm riding in 4th gear and I know a turn is coming up soon. What should be the proper sequence for the turn? Should I downshift one gear, begin braking (without the clutch) and then make the turn?

One way to downshift is to hold the throttle steady instead of letting off, squeeze the clutch (RPMs rise a little), downshift, and release. This will help match your revs to prevent a violent deceleration.

Never go through a turn with the clutch in...

If you go into a turn too fast you need to lean into it more and gentle roll on the throttle to make it through (or if you don't you just lowside which isn't as bad as grabbing the brakes and high siding or driving straight off the edge of the road). You can't roll on the throttle with the clutch pulled

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by alex.s

lets break it down.

we agree there is a certain amount of risk involved in being immobile on a public street. (risk: not being able to get mobile quick enough when needed... when needed could be a variety of conditions such as runaway truck, automatic driver not paying attention, driver who doesnt see you in front, goes when they see green light)

we agree the amount of risk is very dependent on surroundings, and in some rare cases, almost non-existent.

we agree holding a lever for extended periods is annoying.



regardless of your personal justifications, you are putting yourself at risk (however small) in order to make your left arm more comfortable.

That's why in the MSF course we teach to NEVER sit in neutral at an intersection. Over 80% of motorcycle accidents happen at intersections!

[alex.s]

rolling off the throttle will actually send you wide before your speed slows down enough to let you bring it in more. keep the throttle the same, or continue rolling on and lean more.

[csmith12]

This thread is a total mess....

Your new to riding, if your riding casually, then downshift in a way that is comfortable for you and focus on keeping everything smooth. If your trying to learn to ride aggressively.... Watch all the below videos, multiple times too. Your original question is addressed at part 6 of the series starting a 4:10.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

And some of us need to rewatch it, starting at the 30 minute mark of the entire series (part 3) and part 5 starting at 13:30.

[csmith12]

I also reread everything in this thread to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Take the MSF as Alex suggested. Honestly.... taking the time out of your schedule to do it sucks and spending the $$ is even worse but it's totally worth it at the end of the day.

[rabies]

lots fo good info. i have to stop downshifting in turns. bad habit.
when i downshift i revmatch everything out of habit from drivign other things..

...and fyi an F550 truck weighs about 11k lbs...google it

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by alex.s

lets break it down.

we agree there is a certain amount of risk involved in being immobile on a public street. (risk: not being able to get mobile quick enough when needed... when needed could be a variety of conditions such as runaway truck, automatic driver not paying attention, driver who doesnt see you in front, goes when they see green light)

we agree the amount of risk is very dependent on surroundings, and in some rare cases, almost non-existent.

we agree holding a lever for extended periods is annoying.



regardless of your personal justifications, you are putting yourself at risk (however small) in order to make your left arm more comfortable.

I'll agree on all those, I'm quite happy to minimise my risk by moving up to the top of the Q, & only then click into neutral if I'm sure there will be a bit of time sitting at the light with a buffer of a few vehicles behind me.

I feel at more risk sitting at the back of the line, in 1st ready to move than at the front in neutral but alert, ready to click & go if I must.

Originally Posted by Sapper

That's why in the MSF course we teach to NEVER sit in neutral at an intersection. Over 80% of motorcycle accidents happen at intersections!

Most multi vehicle accidents here happen at junctions too, usually it's some idiot pulls out into the path of the bike... "Sorry mate I wasn't paying attention didn't see you" (So common that it's acrynom is widely known SMIDSY)

Various studies put it about 50/50 for total accidents, 50% riders fault (overshoot a corner & come off, botch their braking & lowside, hit oil/gravel/wet leaves/shore covers/white lines/tram tracks ect.), 50% are multi vehicle with 81% of those being someone cuts the bike off & the bike goes into them. (I can quote the article giving the 81% if you want)

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

I feel at more risk sitting at the back of the line, in 1st ready to move than at the front in neutral but alert, ready to click & go if I must.

well, personally, i don't like either of those options... here's a 3rd alternative:

front of the line, in 1st ready to move. none of the hazards of the other two options listed.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by alex.s

well, personally, i don't like either of those options... here's a 3rd alternative:

front of the line, in 1st ready to move. none of the hazards of the other two options listed.

Do it on a commute filtering all the way through a city of 5 million at rush hour, ends up with a serious case of wanker's cramp (seized forearm)

I tried it in Dublin constantly on the clutch crossing a city of a million was unpleasant to say the least, probably why the cops started teaching their riders to click into neutral.

1st option seems to be pretty much forced on everyone in the other 49... poor bastards

Originally Posted by alex.s

Maybe next you will tell me people don't shoot at you from their cars where you live.

Where I'm from gangsters are a lot less GANGSTA. shooting from a car is rare, sticking an IED under one is more common (I know, well off topic...)

[alex.s]

it was a joke because i knew firearms are largely disallowed over there.

[Whiskey]

So are IEDs

& I was thinking you just lived in the wrong part of Cali.

Just saying, it could always be worse...

[alex.s]

but regardless, i'm glad we can both agree the only reason to flick into neutral while waiting at a light is to make your hand more comfortable. and that there are numerous reasons why its a bad idea.

[Whiskey]

I still disagree that it's a bad idea here, but neither opinion is going to sway the other.

It may be a bad idea in cali, I can't say as I havn't been there, & due to a combination of bullshit laws & automatic cages it is a bad idea in other states, I'll give you that.

The other reason usually given is that it reduces tension on the clutch springs, lever out results in less tension on the springs whether in neutral or in gear, lever in compresses them. Excessive time compressed can weaken them (same reason I was trained to keep my rifle uncocked unless the situation called for having one in the chamber immediately, and why we kept our mags empty for general storage with ammo seperately.)

I'm better at figuring out what happens in a mechanical system when I have stripped it to pieces than looking at a diagram of it, but I've not had to take the clutch apart so I may be missing a detail somewhere.

[dfox]

premature wear on the throwout bearing if you're sitting at lots of stoplights.

other than that, no reason not to sit in first. I move out of first only when I'm stuck in traffic. no filtering here, illegal and roads are too tight in the city to filter for the most part.

[Apex]

I like downshifting to 1st for those pesky 45mph turns...

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Apex

I like downshifting to 1st for those pesky 45mph turns...

do you ride a zx14?

[lgk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you ride a zx14?

he does it on his trek...

[alex.s]

if he takes 45mph corners in 1st gear on his trek, his legs must be massive. i'm thinking GOKU massive here. like, over 9000 massive.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if he takes 45mph corners in 1st gear on his trek, his legs must be massive. i'm thinking GOKU massive here. like, over 9000 massive.

well its the only bike he had listed, thats capable of it.

he just needs to generate 1600rpm, not too bad

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by lgk

well its the only bike he had listed, thats capable of it.

I'm pretty sure Mark is capable of 45 on on all those bikes. It might be hard on the transport, but the HiFi is a great bike. 45 on a 29er mountain bike? No problem if you're going for speed

[CC Cowboy]

Code Break; Motorcyclist, article about braking and downshifting for turns. Sounds legit.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Code Break; Motorcyclist, article about braking and downshifting for turns. Sounds legit.

a guy on a gsxr1000 told me that old guy doesn't know what he's talking about. he had a 1000, not some pussy 750 so he must be right.

[CC Cowboy]

Trust the guy with the GSXR1000. At least he has the wisdom to buy the best bike.

[alex.s]

lol