Gearing down to pass question.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what if you are intentionally trying to step the rear out?

no. I only said wot because they're talking about dropping 2 gears at a time. That's a big difference in rpms. So I usually give it a lot of gas really quick, and drop gears and go. Never had the back step out yet.

[alex.s]

if you drop like 10 gears then drop the clutch the rear tire will slip out but it wont lock up.


yes, 10 gears.

[choneofakind]

oh I miss read that first one. I thought you asked me if I was intentionally trying to do that... derp. You asked what if you were trying to back it in basically right?

I think that's not a beginner thing. hell I haven't even gotten the balls to try that on the ninja. I've had the rear wheel skip and slide a couple times from a little overly-eager downshift, but it's surprised me both times, so I didn't do it again.

But my b. I didn't read that right... not starting a fight.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by RaZeDaHeLL

Yes, that does make more sense. So first clutch, apply more throttle to compensate for the downshift by adding more rpm's and then downshift to 5th to keep the same speed? Then apply the throttle again to accelerate? That makes sense... I've done this before but in different situations, like downshifting for sudden upcoming traffic but still keeping the same speed as before. I downshift just in case I have to stop quickly but apply more throttle to avoid slowing down after the downshift.

At highway speeds there really isn't a need to blip the throttle. Just hold the throttle at what it was in sixth. When you pull in the clutch you are unloading the motor and it will rev up. Quickly shift down, work the clutch out and throttle away.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

oh I miss read that first one. I thought you asked me if I was intentionally trying to do that... derp. You asked what if you were trying to back it in basically right?

I think that's not a beginner thing. hell I haven't even gotten the balls to try that on the ninja. I've had the rear wheel skip and slide a couple times from a little overly-eager downshift, but it's surprised me both times, so I didn't do it again.

But my b. I didn't read that right... not starting a fight.

You might get to see it at mid-o but not sure if it scares the sh*t out of me more than it is a total rush.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You might get to see it at mid-o but not sure if it scares the sh*t out of me more than it is a total rush.

ahahaha the first time it slides out braking into the corner its a combination of "OH ****" and "**** YEAH!"

[choneofakind]

I'll be watching for it in the mean time, I need to go watch more youtube videos of the pros doing it

[Error_mage]

Err, not to be a smart ass but since no one has mentioned this (or I simply missed it). When passing just drop however many gears you need until you hit between 9000-9500 rpm, then just WOT and upshift at 12k? I believe that should be the power band of a stock ninja, no matter how fast you’re going when passing…

Doing this should make passes a lot quicker (thus safer) than just passing in 6th or randomly dropping gears. However, I find that once you get past 100khm the little 250 loses some acceleration and after 120khm passing becomes pretty difficult unless you have a real long straightway, so I wouldn’t even bother most of the time.

Blipping might be somewhat like counter steering, most people do it without even realizing, because the bike teaches you sub consciously =D

[alex.s]

[Jay72]

Ya think Alex? lol

[Error_mage]

Yeah, sorry about that XD

But the threads only a day or two old and although there’s plenty of good advice it all seemed to revolve around shifting down one or two gears; so I figured some more general advice might be helpful…

[Jay72]

Originally Posted by Error_mage

Yeah, sorry about that XD

But the threads only a day or two old and although there’s plenty of good advice it all seemed to revolve around shifting down one or two gears; so I figured some more general advice might be helpful…

And I thank you as I started the post and there were only a couple of post that answered my question, and yours was one of them, Thank you.

[KawiKid860]

I drop 2-3 gears (500 has slightly longer gearing so 3rd takes it to 80) and usually let off around 105-110.... well that was err before my ticket... :P

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by alex.s

my opinion:
riding bikes is nothing like driving a car. motivations are different. speeds are different. positioning and maneuvering are different. traffic management strategies are completely different, especially when passing is concerned. basically the only thing that is the same IMO is that you are both on the same road. im kinda a dick on the road but i give the bike 70% in traffic. enough to maintain steady movement passed traffic. not so much that all of your attention is focused forward.

Agreed but that wasn't what I meant. Anyone who's been on a motorbike for 30 seconds knows that.

If you wouldn't do it in a car...

. A tank being returned to base would have the same rules as a motobrike in my world.
That to me means safe and sensible riding. I wouldn't take a stupid risk or intentionally slide a car in traffic nor would I do it on a bike in traffic. Or a tank. Yes the yank would be fun to try to slide on ice but I still think non-squiddy traffic rules apply to anything on the road.

Call me old fashioned but call me ticket free and alive in 20 years too.

Originally Posted by NDspd

Could you possibly send me those links too?
I usually gear down to 4th if I'm already at 50-60mph if I really need to pass. Other wise I generally cruise by in 6th.

Yup, will send those along shortly.
I do the same. Works like a charm, never had any passing issues but I will practice going down to 5th and hoping back into the power band. Just need a good place around here to go that fast. Sounds fun.

Originally Posted by Jay72

, ...but I wasn't sure how safe it was to drop more than one gear....

I barely ever need to pass as well but you should look up 'passive downshifting'. I don't think I can describe it as well as a video or some such could but we learned it in my course and it really helped me. It works smoothly and quickly. You can shift down to first for traffic lights without having to slow down to match rpms over a longer stretch of road. Kind of like emergency braking but smoothly and controlled, no risk of locking up the back.

Hope that makes sense..

[NDspd]

@Firehorse that's cool man...I had to drop down 2 gears yesterday after having to pass a school bus, damn thing was going 40 in a 55 speed limit zone.

[Jay72]

@Jeremy Firehorse is a lady!! lol

[Jay72]

Hey Firehorse, no tickets??? I think you told me you don't drive a car did ya not?? lol

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by NDspd

@Firehorse that's cool man...I had to drop down 2 gears yesterday after having to pass a school bus, damn thing was going 40 in a 55 speed limit zone.

I guess they were going slow 'cos of the cargo? Be extra careful passing them, they may have just let out a bunch of those hyper little children-like creatures, LOL!

Originally Posted by Jay72

@Jeremy Firehorse is a lady!! lol

Why, yes I am, fine sir.

Originally Posted by Jay72

Hey Firehorse, no tickets??? I think you told me you don't drive a car did ya not?? lol

No tickets on my ninja And when you think that I ride a "crotchrocket sqid-mobile' in the middle of the night all over the city with no purpose in mind...that sounds like a ticket waiting to happen. Sooo, my plans to never get a ticket are working, for now
Only time I talked to a cop on the road so far was to pull into a crowd of parked city/OPP and ask them what the rules are wrt getting stuck at lights on sensor. They were all very nice.

As for my learning car driving, it finally snowed so I need to find a parking lot to learn how to control a skid - read DOING DONUTS!! Wheeee!!!
Normal cars kinda suck. Very boring.

Hey, Jay, did you get that Rossi on the back brake vid?

[alex.s]

i think i misquoted but what i said still stands. from my experience driving a bike like a car (with the flow of traffic, trying to have people respect your right of way, assuming they can see you and wont plow into you randomly) is very dangerous

i speed to get away from cars. on the highway i will wot until i find a gap and chill in the gap until people come up behind me or slow down too much and the gap isnt a gap anymore. when they get within maybe 100 or 2 feet ill pick up the pace and find another gap. i dont slowly pass people because i hate being near them. the less time you are near them the less time they have to kill you. thats not to say pass them at 100mph wot a few feet away from them when there are 3 other lanes. but i definitely try to pass with at least a 15 mph difference

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think i misquoted but what i said still stands. from my experience driving a bike like a car (with the flow of traffic, trying to have people respect your right of way, assuming they can see you and wont plow into you randomly) is very dangerous

i speed to get away from cars. on the highway i will wot until i find a gap and chill in the gap until people come up behind me or slow down too much and the gap isnt a gap anymore. when they get within maybe 100 or 2 feet ill pick up the pace and find another gap. i dont slowly pass people because i hate being near them. the less time you are near them the less time they have to kill you. thats not to say pass them at 100mph wot a few feet away from them when there are 3 other lanes. but i definitely try to pass with at least a 15 mph difference

I think we are misunderstanding each other.

No one is saying to drive/ride the vehicle using the same physical rules.

I think we should use the same safety/common sense rules. The physical presence and mechanical abilities of the two vehicles are different so the rules I follow would be adapted to the vehicle or conditions or situation that I was using.
BUT i would still use the same rules for things like passing because common sense dictates what a safe pass is for a given vehicle.

Your posts are emphasizing that we kind of agree.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT WE SHOULD DRIVE THE TWO VEHICLES THE SAME WAY.
Sorry for yelling but if we're going to keep going around in circles we should at least get a knee down...

And one more thing - no one should ever slowly pass another vehicle because it causes a person to hang in the blind spot too long. I like the phrase "overtake' instead of pass. It make what you said nice and clear. Remember that MSF thing about always keeping a cushion around you? Mmm, good advice. I rather slow down and be car-free than pass people to end up in a 'death-box' on the other hand if I need to shoot ahead to get clear air, I would.

Chill in the gap.
Nice turn of phrase.

[Kevin2109]

Alex is just trying to say hes a pussy

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Alex is just trying to say hes a pussy

Then I'd rather ride with him than a squid. If being safe is...pussy???, bring 'em on.

And didn't guys like you spend your entire life trying to find pussy? You guys have to make up your mind whether insulting slang for women's body parts is good or bad. LOL!

Why do men use 'pussy' as a reference to scared or cowardly? Are they afraid to use current english of afraid to call another man a coward??

Just askin'

[Kevin2109]

Someone needs a snickers, geez

Its a joke, Alex and I are good friends, I'm just messing around

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Someone needs a snickers, geez

Its a joke, Alex and I are good friends, I'm just messing around

Yeah, I should try that snickers, thank you, I was going all Cruella Deville there. I hate certain words but not people.

Mia Culpa

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Yeah, I should try that snickers, thank you, I was going all Cruella Deville there. I hate certain words but not people.

Mia Culpa

No worries

[Jay72]

OUCH...I think Kevin just took a bit of a tongue lashing (via keyboard) lol

Yes Tana thank you very much for that vid, really good.

[Firehorse]

Maybe he likes it.
Heehee.

We hugged and made up, see above, I'm the one in pink. And I hate pink but I'll wear it for the photo.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jay72

.....I have only been out on my bike a half dozen times since I bought it due to the winter, ..........the two lane highway I will be traveling to go back and for to work often has slower vehicles on it .........., so I will more than likely have to need to pass the odd car here or there

Jay,

Downshifting on a curve has a caveat: keep the rpm's correct (higher than in upper gear) to accept the lower gear.

The sudden resistance to rolling, may make the rear tire skid sideways, unless you clutch-out slowly enough to harmonize rpm's.

The math is simple: downshifting trades wheel speed by added torque on the wheel in the following ratio 12% from 6 to 5 gear, 16% from 5 to 4 and 21% from 4 to 3.

Unless the engine's rpm's are intentionally increased, the inertia will make the rear wheel slowdown (while trying to speed up the engine).

[NDspd]

@Firehorse AHHH...I'm sorry madam...it's so hard to tell on internet forums.

As for the bus, they weren't dropping any of them off, but yeah I was making sure it was quite clear and "safe" before I did any moves.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Someone needs a snickers, geez

AHAHA. just don't start trolling hookers again.


offset vagina. haha. classic.

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by NDspd

@Firehorse AHHH...I'm sorry madam...it's so hard to tell on internet forums.

As for the bus, they weren't dropping any of them off, but yeah I was making sure it was quite clear and "safe" before I did any moves.

Never a problem, no apology necessary, you'd be able to tell in person .
Yes it's hard to tell about these things on forums. One guy here usually wears a skirt but acts macho to cover it. I just try to sound much like everyone else but sometimes I get girly, then my cover is blown.

You ever look up at the school bus windows when you pass? It's quite funny, all those tiny faces with their eyes bulged out like you're ghost rider. Lol!

[NDspd]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Never a problem, no apology necessary, you'd be able to tell in person .
Yes it's hard to tell about these things on forums. One guy here usually wears a skirt but acts macho to cover it. I just try to sound much like everyone else but sometimes I get girly, then my cover is blown.

You ever look up at the school bus windows when you pass? It's quite funny, all those tiny faces with their eyes bulged out like you're ghost rider. Lol!

Funny you should say that...They were all googly eyed watching me and pointing to others to watch me. And of course they all start waving at me, they must have been 1st graders. For being a 20 year old guy it sounds weird to wave at a bunch of kids. But I remember when I was their age, that guy on the motorcycle was like a super hero or a super cool dude. So now I'm on the other side of the equation, so I figured I would play the part.

I think I made their day

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by NDspd

I think I made their day

Trust me. I was that kid. You made their day.

I wave at all the little kids that wave to me. Random people in cars, no. Little kids, yes

[nickjpass]

You should give them the finger and see what happens lol

[choneofakind]

nick you're a terrible person

[nickjpass]

I'm not a terrible person...I just thought of it. Imagine your riding, and the kids see you while they're in the bus. They're waving, and smiling from being excited! Then they see you giving them the finger. I can't imagine how hilarious that would be. Then you get distracted, and ride under the bus

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by NDspd

Funny you should say that...They were all googly eyed watching me and pointing to others to watch me. And of course they all start waving at me, they must have been 1st graders. For being a 20 year old guy it sounds weird to wave at a bunch of kids. But I remember when I was their age, that guy on the motorcycle was like a super hero or a super cool dude. So now I'm on the other side of the equation, so I figured I would play the part.

I think I made their day

Totally. I make faces or wave at kids in cars too. If you make the kids smile and wave, the parents find you less intimidating and don't try to kill you as often.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Trust me. I was that kid. You made their day.

I wave at all the little kids that wave to me. Random people in cars, no. Little kids, yes

Geez, I'm still that little kid sometimes and with certain bikes.

Originally Posted by nickjpass

You should give them the finger and see what happens lol

And that's an example of what kind of behavior will get us killed.
Very funny but don't do it in person. If a biker did that and I was the bus driver, I'd flip that metal sign open...
Thwack!
Oops, didn't see you.

You wouldn't do that for real would you?

I think I need to spend more time here so I know when you guys are just being smarta$$es and when you're serious.

[nickjpass]

I was joking! I wouldn't do that!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Totally. I make faces or wave at kids in cars too. If you make the kids smile and wave, the parents find you less intimidating and don't try to kill you as often.

Geez, I'm still that little kid sometimes and with certain bikes.

oh Yeah I still wave at the cool bikes too. And

and you know that when you have a helmet on, people can't see the silly faces that you make at them right? they just think you're being creepy and looking at them for a prolonged period of time compared to just a glance

[nickjpass]

@ Inappropriate but hilarious name

I thought the same thing. Some random person, staring. Then give them the finger, it would also be hilarious.