Stock wheel vs aftermarket wheels

[Bigballsofpaint]

Im tossing around the idea of picking up the 4.5in vrossi wheels. For you track guys who know your tires and sizes, should use the stock wheels for the track with a 130 size rear? Or the vrossi for the track witha 150 rear? It makes no difference to me, i havent been to the track so i dont know what tires are good and the sizes and all that. I know you can run a 150 rear with the 4.5rim, so basically use the 150 for street and 130 for track or vise versa.

[alex.s]

all the racers run stock wheels, cause its da rules.

you would be better off asking florida guys with stretched swingarms.


keep in mind the fastest 250 racers run the bridgestone slicks which are 120 rear, 100 front

[tooblekain]

stick with stock wheels. A 150 will fit

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by tooblekain

stick with stock wheels. A 150 will fit

i had to shave off a little bit of the chain gaurd on the inside with the last 150 i wore. 140 dr2's fit fine though. i think my chain gaurd might be a little bent though

[tooblekain]

Wouldn't know. My swingarm has the chain guard mounts cut.

[Bigballsofpaint]

we dont have a 250 class here so its just for trackdays.

[Joshorilla]

Probably more money than they're worth

[Bigballsofpaint]

I didnt buy a bike to save money, nor am i going to the track to save money. I AM going to buy the vrossi rims, solely because id like a set of street tires and track tires. I just wanted to know what the racers here would pic with tire combo to see what i should do. It makes no difference to me since i need new tires for the stock rims as well.

I purchased a set of hotbodies bodywork so my SE fairings have no chances of damage ont he track, im looking for a gas tank to use at the track as well. Ill end up picking up some discs to mount on the vrossi rims too so my transition from track to street should be fairly fast. I rarely ride the 250 on the street anyway since i bought the 1000, but i know i also dont want to turn the 250 into a pure track bike. The plan is to buy an actual trackbike in a couple years. My 250 was my first bike and i bought it new, so id like to keep it in good shape all around and make it a nice all around bike.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

I didnt buy a bike to save money, nor am i going to the track to save money. I AM going to buy the vrossi rims, solely because id like a set of street tires and track tires. I just wanted to know what the racers here would pic with tire combo to see what i should do. It makes no difference to me since i need new tires for the stock rims as well.

I purchased a set of hotbodies bodywork so my SE fairings have no chances of damage ont he track, im looking for a gas tank to use at the track as well. Ill end up picking up some discs to mount on the vrossi rims too so my transition from track to street should be fairly fast. I rarely ride the 250 on the street anyway since i bought the 1000, but i know i also dont want to turn the 250 into a pure track bike. The plan is to buy an actual trackbike in a couple years. My 250 was my first bike and i bought it new, so id like to keep it in good shape all around and make it a nice all around bike.

oh, well if money is no object,

buy another set of stock 250 wheels. along with tire warmers and a generator. then put bridgestone or pirelli slicks on. 100 front, 120 rear. and spend all your fancy money on gas and more pairs of better tires. you're going to go through them fast if you're running good tires.

a 4.5 inch rear isn't doing anything to help you performance wise on this bike when the slicks made for it are 120 rear.

yeah they're fancy and its nice to say you have "custom wheels yo" but if you are concerned about performance, then focus on that. performance. what is the job of the wheel? to hold the tire. pick a tire and then pick a wheel based on that tire. best tire for 250? moto3 slicks. what size are moto3 slicks? 100, 120.

well some are like 95 front, and i think the pirelli is still 110 front.. but you get what i'm saying. go find the best tires first.

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

I didnt buy a bike to save money, nor am i going to the track to save money.

Look at you Mr Big Shot, well, in that case let me re-phrase and say "You have more money than sense" but if you want to spend a lot of money to actually make you slower, be my guest, the sensible thing to do if you were to buy a 250 to race, but not race in a 250 class and just use it for the track days but want it to be faster so are willing to spend $$$$ in wheels would have been to buy yourself a faster bike!

[Bigballsofpaint]

Im not here to start a pissing contest either Josh. Im here to ask a question that im sure a lot of the guys here can answer. If you want the truth i have very little extra money, but i know i want to go to a track next year and do a track day. I also know i want to make as easy as possible for myself, thats all. We dont have a 250 class AT ALL up, not that i dont want to race in a 250 class. My 1000 is my daily, my 250 doesnt see as much use as it once did.

Alex I didnt say money was no object, merely im not trying to skimp on doing something because it costs money. I know your reply was half sarcastic which is fine. I know i have no need for warmers or a generator. Im not looking for "slicks" either, but will not rule them out. I honestly dont see myself doing more than 2 track days next year, i may use the 1000 for one of them as well.

A 4.5in rim isnt going to be purchased just for performance, ive been here long enough to know, and i have enough mechanical knowledge to know on my stock bike it will hurt more than help since i will have more rotational mass. But if the tire selection was better, then i would use it. If not, i will run stock rims with track tires, and then use the 4.5in rim for street tires and use a 150 tire.

I know most of the guys on here are die hard trackday riders or race in a certain class, so you have a much better knowledge of tires and selection. I honestly have no idea other than the what i see most of you using, but you are limited to stock wheels as you said because of your class.

Basically, if your just using it for a trackday or 2 a year, would you use the stock rims with xx tires, or a 4.5 rear rim with xx tire.

Originally Posted by alex.s

oh, well if money is no object,

buy another set of stock 250 wheels. along with tire warmers and a generator. then put bridgestone or pirelli slicks on. 100 front, 120 rear. and spend all your fancy money on gas and more pairs of better tires. you're going to go through them fast if you're running good tires.

a 4.5 inch rear isn't doing anything to help you performance wise on this bike when the slicks made for it are 120 rear.

yeah they're fancy and its nice to say you have "custom wheels yo" but if you are concerned about performance, then focus on that. performance. what is the job of the wheel? to hold the tire. pick a tire and then pick a wheel based on that tire. best tire for 250? moto3 slicks. what size are moto3 slicks? 100, 120.

well some are like 95 front, and i think the pirelli is still 110 front.. but you get what i'm saying. go find the best tires first.

[alex.s]

your question has been answered many times but you refuse to accept it

if you want to buy expensive rims, go buy them.


if you want better grip at the track and are willing to spend that much money to buy rims specifically for the track.... and you aren't just trying to show off.

listen to yourself dude.

what do you want? do you want fancy looking wheels? or are you trying to increase the performance of your bike? you just said yourself you already know 4.5" rims aren't going to help. you want better tires, but don't want the best tires? why spend so much money then?

go buy slicks. stop talking about bigger wheels. if you want bigger wheels then buy them. but they aren't helping you in any way except maybe making your cock feel bigger

if you use slicks, use tire warmers.

[alex.s]

i mean listen to what you are saying...

would you buy a second set of wheels so that you can use them... TWICE A YEAR? ffs just change your damn tires.

[csmith12]

Let me take a stab at this.

The vrossi wheels are cool and all... If I wanted them as my street set and had the coin then sure, why not. Unless your a hard core track rider/racer, doing a few track days a year on them is really neither here nor there as long as your happy with it. And you may make some new friends in the paddock when they come over to see the non stock setup. It'll give you something to talk about.

I feel you would be better served to have two sets of wheels with a wet/dry tire configuration.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Alex, you say your answering my question but your not. Your acting like im trying to be showy when i just want input from you guys.

Originally Posted by alex.s

your question has been answered many times but you refuse to accept it

if you want to buy expensive rims, go buy them. - I want the 4.5 rim to have a bigger rear tire, whether on track or street i dont care. I also want an extra set of rims with tires, yes even if its for twice a year. I dont mind spending extra money if it makes my life easier and takes less time.


if you want better grip at the track and are willing to spend that much money to buy rims specifically for the track.... and you aren't just trying to show off. I want tires that are more track oriented than street oriented for the track, but are not slicks. Simple as that


listen to yourself dude.

what do you want? do you want fancy looking wheels? or are you trying to increase the performance of your bike? you just said yourself you already know 4.5" rims aren't going to help. you want better tires, but don't want the best tires? why spend so much money then?

go buy slicks. stop talking about bigger wheels. if you want bigger wheels then buy them. but they aren't helping you in any way except maybe making your cock feel bigger

if you use slicks, use tire warmers.

I dont want tire warmers, so no slicks

I guess i should rephrase my question so my motives are no longer in question.

If you planned on going to 2 trackdays a year and had 2 sets of rims

Stock Rims -

Aftermarket with 4.5in rear -

What tire would you run that is NOT a slick. A good wet or dry tire even if it gets little mileage (dunlop q2 ring a bell?)

Out of those 2 wheel and tire choices, which one would you pick to use for the track.

Hows that?

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Let me take a stab at this.

The vrossi wheels are cool and all... If I wanted them as my street set and had the coin then sure, why not. Unless your a hard core track rider/racer, doing a few track days a year on them is really neither here nor there as long as your happy with it. And you may make some new friends in the paddock when they come over to see the non stock setup. It'll give you something to talk about.

I feel you would be better served to have two sets of wheels with a wet/dry tire configuration.

Chris i did think of the wet/dry tire combo, but id really like a set of tires i could use on the street and get 5-8k miles on, and then a good set of track day tires.

Say a set of dunlop q2 for track and a set of pirelli angel ST for street.

Thats my question though, and i dont even think they make those tires for our sizes. What tire would you pick for the given scenario? With all the argueing i figure maybe i asked the wrong question initially, i know there are many different tire opinions, but i could get a good general idea of what to look for.

[Joshorilla]

So long as you know that having a bigger rear tyre will reduce acceleration and reduce your cornering ability.

I feel you inherently believe that this aftermarket wheel is going to be better for the track and are asking if it's worth the extra money, what we're saying is "It's going to slow you down if anything, and you're paying to make your bike slower" and what you're not getting is that we're not avoiding answering your question, we're simply saying your question is flawed as it's based on the assumption that aftermarket wheels are better for the track, when in this case, that isn't true.

You also seem to think that you can't get good tyres for the standard wheels, this simply isn't true.

[alex.s]

here's what you're looking at for tires.

******:
shinko, irc, whatevers.

medium:
bs 003rs, p rosso 2s

good:
super corsas, bs slicks, pirelli slicks.

now look at all of them. what sizes do they come in? ok now what wheel fits ALL of them. stock ninja 250 wheel. what doesn't fit all of them? vrossi wheels.

why bother having two sets of wheels if you are only ever using the second set two weekends out of 52. it takes 10 minutes to change tires and they will do it for you at the track.

if you are only doing 2 track days a year, why NOT use slicks? seriously. people think oh im not a racer i don't need slicks. so? if you can afford them buy them. you don't even need warmers but the warmers will make the slicks last much longer.

[csmith12]

hmmmm.... What would I do if I had the option?

I would have to try this at least once for fun at the track.
4.5 wheels w/ some power ones (160)

Realistically though
Street - 4.5 w/ BT045's (160) or whatever you like
Track - Since your just tracking, just get some rosso II's. Their good enough to set some track records on. If you want the best, get slicks and warmers.

Since we all agree that the 4.5 wheels aren't really gaining you any real performance, might as well take advantage of the extra width to get a phat tire on the rear I guess.

I think what alex.s is getting at is, the extra wheel width isn't really buying you much better tire options for track use. Current tires that are available for the stock sized wheels are nearly as capable as the 250.

[Panda]

I'd run something hard and inexpensive, like a Shinko Podium 150 on a 4.5" rim for the street. Mainly because I think the 130s look like moped tires. For the track I'd run a 140 dr2 on the stock rim.

I have no expertise but that's what I'd do.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

So long as you know that having a bigger rear tyre will reduce acceleration and reduce your cornering ability.

I feel you inherently believe that this aftermarket wheel is going to be better for the track and are asking if it's worth the extra money, what we're saying is "It's going to slow you down if anything, and you're paying to make your bike slower" and what you're not getting is that we're not avoiding answering your question, we're simply saying your question is flawed as it's based on the assumption that aftermarket wheels are better for the track, when in this case, that isn't true. That was actually my main question. Im not buying the wheels for the track, im buying them because i want a 2ns set of wheels. The question was which wheel tire combo should i use, and it seems the stock wheels have a better selection. A lot of older 600s use 150 tires ont he rear so i didnt know if they had a better tire combo.

You also seem to think that you can't get good tyres for the standard wheels, this simply isn't true.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by csmith12

hmmmm.... What would I do if I had the option?

I would have to try this at least once for fun at the track.
4.5 wheels w/ some power ones (160)

Realistically though
Street - 4.5 w/ BT045's (160) or whatever you like
Track - Since your just tracking, just get some rosso II's. Their good enough to set some track records on. If you want the best, get slicks and warmers.

Since we all agree that the 4.5 wheels aren't really gaining you any real performance, might as well take advantage of the extra width to get a phat tire on the rear I guess.

I think what alex.s is getting at is, the extra wheel width isn't really buying you much better tire options for track use. Current tires that are available for the stock sized wheels are nearly as capable as the 250.

Thanks alex and chris, that was what i was trying to decifer. Ill use the 4.5s with a 150 (i dont want to mod anything or chance rubbing) on the street, and get the rosso's on the stock wheels for the track.

[alex.s]

chris, i don't know if a pilot 160 would work with the frame/swingarm sizes... the 150s are rubbing the chain guard. a 160 might be ok with the guard gone but i think any bigger and you're going to be rubbing the chain on the tire. maybe you could get a 420 or 415 chain or offset the wheel a couple mm to the right with an offset sprocket or something... but...

as far as the 150 on the street... again... why? what is the goal here? do you just want fancy looking rims? if thats the case stop there. you want them because they look cool to you. but you keep mentioning performance... those wheels aren't for performance. not on this bike.

tbh if i was in your situation, here is what i would do...

not buy a second pair of wheels.

put some rosso 2's on.

put new rosso 2's on before each track day.

end of story.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by alex.s

chris, i don't know if a pilot 160 would work with the frame/swingarm sizes... the 150s are rubbing the chain guard. a 160 might be ok with the guard gone but i think any bigger and you're going to be rubbing the chain on the tire. maybe you could get a 420 or 415 chain or offset the wheel a couple mm to the right with an offset sprocket or something... but...

as far as the 150 on the street... again... why? what is the goal here? do you just want fancy looking rims? if thats the case stop there. you want them because they look cool to you. but you keep mentioning performance... those wheels aren't for performance. not on this bike.Never mentioned wanting them for performance, nor to look cool. Actually id rather the other 4.5 rim he sells, but the single rear rim cost more than the set of vrossi's. I want a 2nd set of wheels so i dont have to go to the shop and change tires all the time. Its much easier for me to just swap wheels at home whenever i want. I dont want to invest in a tire changer and balancer yet, as i dont go through tires enough to justify it. I also DO like the look of a little wider tire on the rear.

tbh if i was in your situation, here is what i would do...

not buy a second pair of wheels.

put some rosso 2's on.

put new rosso 2's on before each track day.

end of story.

[csmith12]

You can get a 160 stuffed up in there. Sure, it takes some minor mods but there are many vids on youtube with stock the swingarm and what not. You won't be seeing me doing it, although peeps are free to do whatever they want to their own bike. I try not to judge.

[choneofakind]

2 track days a year?

Buy used OEM rims cheap.
Buy a set of Diablo Rosso 2 tires for track day wheel, buy something hard and long life for the street wheels.

Spend money you saved from not shipping wheels from Asia on another track day and grin from ear to ear.

End of story.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

2 track days a year?

Buy used OEM rims cheap.
Buy a set of Diablo Rosso 2 tires for track day wheel, buy something hard and long life for the street wheels.

Spend money you saved from not shipping wheels from Asia on another track day and grin from ear to ear.

End of story.

I saw 2 track days right now, but who knows what the future will be. All i know is come spring i want me and my bike ready for my 1st. I have 2 tracks in the area i want to go to next year, so thats why i say 2. OEM rims, well, nevermind them being hard to find with all the pregens doing the conversion to 17s, i figure i should get the bigger rear like ive wanted to the back end doesnt look SO thin. I just didnt know which set to mount track day tires on, which is looks like the stock rims will be the ones. I think the Vrossi is only like 400 shipped for both rims, which i dont think is bad. Ill get a 2nd set of rotors and what not so i can leave them mounted on as well.

Right now im tackling the bodywork and transportation. I just picked up a trailer and a hitch for my car. Bought a set of hotbody race fairings. Searching for a beat up gas tank with pet cock, then ill snag some vinyl wrap for everything. I just like to list out the things i want to buy and cost so i know what to plan for.

[csmith12]

bwahahahahahahha

[csmith12]

I will apologize ahead of time for this but I am just posting in good fun.

Link to original page on YouTube.


lol

[alex.s]

hahahahaha

[alex.s]

I want a 2nd set of wheels so i dont have to go to the shop and change tires all the time. Its much easier for me to just swap wheels at home whenever i want. I dont want to invest in a tire changer and balancer yet, as i dont go through tires enough to justify it.

heres what i hear:
you plan on changing your wheels twice a year.
but you can't be bothered to take the wheels down to the shop to have them changed
so you're going to buy a second set of wheels that you will have to take down to the shop to have tires put on...
because you are going to be changing your wheels back and forth so often... because you are planning on going to two track days... and you haven't been to the track yet.
but you have race body work already...


listen to yourself dude. you are making literally no sense at all. you are saying one thing and then going in the complete opposite direction

[Bigballsofpaint]

You tube is blocked at work, ill remember to go home and hate you there!

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by alex.s

heres what i hear:
you plan on changing your wheels twice a year.
but you can't be bothered to take the wheels down to the shop to have them changed
so you're going to buy a second set of wheels that you will have to take down to the shop to have tires put on...
because you are going to be changing your wheels back and forth so often... because you are planning on going to two track days... and you haven't been to the track yet.
but you have race body work already...


listen to yourself dude. you are making literally no sense at all. you are saying one thing and then going in the complete opposite direction

Actually i will have 3 sets of tires to do come spring. 2 sets on the 250 wheels, and 1 set for the 1000. So ill get them done at the shop in 1 day, then be set for the year, instead of going back and forth.

I know i wont be changing them back and forth often, but when i do want to change them, i wont have to worry about taking them off, bringing them to the shop (if they are even open) waiting for them, coming home and then putting them on. Then after my trackday, even if its only twice a year, go back and have them swap the other tires onto the rims.

Its all about having everything i need at home in the garage to swap it back and forth easily and fast, without having to run around and do extra stuff. During the week i dont get home until 7ish, rarely do i feel like workin on the bike. Most weekends are spent going to either my parents to visit, or my girlfriends parents to visit. I dont have a ton of time to go back and forth, nevermind the time of the shops around here even being open. This isnt california, we dont have many motorcycle shops. While i understand your point, i just know the easiest thing for me is to have 2 sets to swap back and forth.

[alex.s]

there are usually more than a few tire vendors at a track day.

you got pirellis? go find the pirelli guy and ask him to put your pirellis on. at the end of the day take them back and have him swap them back for you. if you're nice they'll do it for free.

viola. now you don't need to do any of the crap you were talking about.

[alex.s]

keep in mind though


you are talking about spending over 700$ (closer to 8 tbh)

just so you can avoid one tire change.


STAHPAT

[Bigballsofpaint]

Ive wanted the larger rear rim for a while, regardless. So its not just to avoid a tire change. Thats why i made the thread to see if their was a better selection of tires for the 4.5 rim vs the 3.5

I didnt make the thread to say hey should i buy the 4.5 rim, its was, if i have the 4.5 rim which set of wheels would you use as track wheels and tires.

It will come down to my budget, i will be buying my track suit and gear before wheels and tires. Obviously if i cannot afford the wheels, i will just do like you suggest and buy another set of tires just for the trackday. And it may likely be the case for this season, but then next season ill stick want the bigger rims. Just like i want EFI, a KOSO gage, full exhaust, etc. I have a list of mods i want just like everyone else

[Joshorilla]

[Alex]

[choneofakind]

The way I'm seeing this, no offense.

You want one outcome. But you want justification.
So you ask us.
We give you the other option; the more realistic option that will be better for your situation; the option you don't want to hear.
You keep going, so SOMEONE will eventually tell you what you want to hear so you can justify your purchase.

Seriously. Look at how fast and how stick the tires are that are available for the stock rim size. Look how many guys race. Look how fast they are. On oe wheels.

$400 could buy you oe wheels AND most of a pair of tires and rotors.


But if you want the vrossi wheels, by all means get them. The OEM wheels are fine and there's great tire options in those sizes. I'm on pregen size tires that are far inferior to tires that are available for newgen wheels. And I and haven't yet met the limits of those crummy tires. I'm not saying I'm fast, but I'm a lot faster than I was when I started. I think you're worrying about something that isn't necessary and are looking for positive reinforcement for something that you plain old want but don't need.

Like I said, your ride. Do whatever you want with it. But know that the OEM wheels will treat you just fine and will give you plenty of awesome tire options.

[JohnnyBravo]

Do they come gold plated??? Ahhhh gold plated rims an a 8 inch gold plated extended swing arm.... Ahhhhhhhhh I'm gonna have to excuse myself for a moment