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Old November 7th, 2022, 12:01 AM   #1
blanzer
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Idling issue

Hello all, now that I figured out my bike wasnít starting cuz a loose spark plug connection (derp), I now have an idling issue that I still canít figure out. I thought it was a vacuum leak issue from my carb boots which I have now replaced, and I still think it might be air related but we shall see what you all think. My idle mixture screws are currently at 5 turns out and have to be far out for the bike to even idle. And it only idles around 1.75k-2k rpmís. I can possibly turn the screw out more to lower it but I donít think it can go out much more and Iíve had it pop out from being too loose before lol. Sometimes the bike wonít even turn over and I have to always give it throttle to start regardless. And sometimes in a sweet spot. Sometimes it wonít start no matter how much I try but if I turn on the choke it will immediately start up and if I turn it off itíll idle fine. Valves are adjusted. Carbs are clean. I was reading maybe I need to move up a size jet? Iím all out of ideas and honestly getting tired of this bike after 7 years lol letís see if you all can help.
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Old November 7th, 2022, 12:42 AM   #2
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No changes in jets needed. People increase jet size to make up for clogged dirty carbs. But it's only temporary measure as those clogs will increase over time and bike stumbles again.

Your carbs aren't factory-fresh clean. As shown by needing 5-turns on pilot screws.

Do search for "clean carbs ducatiman" for threads with procedures and photos.
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Old November 7th, 2022, 05:43 PM   #3
blanzer
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
No changes in jets needed. People increase jet size to make up for clogged dirty carbs. But it's only temporary measure as those clogs will increase over time and bike stumbles again.

Your carbs aren't factory-fresh clean. As shown by needing 5-turns on pilot screws.

Do search for "clean carbs ducatiman" for threads with procedures and photos.
Really? Guess I need to clean extra deep then cuz I’m tired of this. Is the chem dip or an ultrasonic cleaner better? Also what size ultrasonic do I need? Will a 2L or 2.5L fit it? Also, what do I need to remove in terms of rubber parts?
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Old November 7th, 2022, 06:43 PM   #4
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Both chem-dip and ultrasonic and micro-soda blasting. And poking out all bleed holes with soft copper-wire. Needs complete refurb with disassembly down to every last nut, bolt and individual part. Everything scrubbed with brushes and PEA-based fuel-system cleaner (including hidden secret passages in carb-body). Spray carb-cleaners no longer work due to removal of chlorinated compounds. Then ultrasonic soak everything. Micro soda-blast at very end to clean up. Adjust float levels with final wet-test. Replace all rubbers: fuel-rail O-rings, pilot screw O-rings, float-valves, float-bowl seals, and slide diaphragms if needed. Sync carbs and adjust idle.



Scrub secret hidden passages in carb-body. Scrub-brushes from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bottle-Cleaning.../dp/B01N6QEINN











Scrub with PEA-based fuel-system cleaner. Way, way better than useless spray carb-cleaners without any chlorinated compounds any more.

Red Line SI-1
Techron Concentrate Plus
3M Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner #08814
Royal Purple Max Atomizer 18000
Gumout All-in-One (may be off list soon due to reducing amounts of PEA.)

Completely disassemble emulsion-tube and pilot jet. Poke out all lateral bleed holes with soft copper wire. Dried petrol turns to plastic and cannot be dissolved again. Must be mechanically scrubbed away. Also poke out all bleed-holes in carb-venturi towards float-bowl. Especially the mixture-screw hole.



Bike ran perfectly fine when leaving showroom floor. It will again when carbs are restored to factory-fresh clean with all factory settings.

That's a lot of work and requires lots of experience and equipment. I just send my carbs to this outfit for refurb every winter when I'm overhauling my race bike. Since I run in stock class, restoring carbs to factory-fresh condition is one of "mods" that make HUGE difference compared to others running with clogged carbs causing stumbling and revving laziness.

EDIT: Forgot to add https://customcarbservices.com
Expert work, reasonable costs and fast turnaround!

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; November 7th, 2022 at 09:46 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2022, 08:50 PM   #5
blanzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Both chem-dip and ultrasonic and micro-soda blasting. And poking out all bleed holes with soft copper-wire. Needs complete refurb with disassembly down to every last nut, bolt and individual part. Everything scrubbed with brushes and PEA-based fuel-system cleaner (including hidden secret passages in carb-body). Spray carb-cleaners no longer work due to removal of chlorinated compounds. Then ultrasonic soak everything. Micro soda-blast at very end to clean up. Adjust float levels with final wet-test. Replace all rubbers: fuel-rail O-rings, pilot screw O-rings, float-valves, float-bowl seals, and slide diaphragms if needed. Sync carbs and adjust idle.



Scrub secret hidden passages in carb-body. Scrub-brushes from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bottle-Cleaning.../dp/B01N6QEINN











Scrub with PEA-based fuel-system cleaner. Way, way better than useless spray carb-cleaners without any chlorinated compounds any more.

Red Line SI-1
Techron Concentrate Plus
3M Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner #08814
Royal Purple Max Atomizer 18000
Gumout All-in-One (may be off list soon due to reducing amounts of PEA.)

Completely disassemble emulsion-tube and pilot jet. Poke out all lateral bleed holes with soft copper wire. Dried petrol turns to plastic and cannot be dissolved again. Must be mechanically scrubbed away. Also poke out all bleed-holes in carb-venturi towards float-bowl. Especially the mixture-screw hole.



Bike ran perfectly fine when leaving showroom floor. It will again when carbs are restored to factory-fresh clean with all factory settings.

That's a lot of work and requires lots of experience and equipment. I just send my carbs to this outfit for refurb every winter when I'm overhauling my race bike. Since I run in stock class, restoring carbs to factory-fresh condition is one of "mods" that make HUGE difference compared to others running with clogged carbs causing stumbling and revving laziness.
Sheesh thatís a ton. Thanks for info. This definitely looks like a job for someone else lol. Will save this incase I do decide to do myself though. Good to know about the carb cleaner. Explains why it doesnít run right no matter how many times I clean them
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Old November 7th, 2022, 09:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by blanzer View Post
Sheesh that’s a ton. Thanks for info. This definitely looks like a job for someone else lol. Will save this incase I do decide to do myself though. Good to know about the carb cleaner. Explains why it doesn’t run right no matter how many times I clean them
Forgot to add https://customcarbservices.com
Expert work, reasonable costs and fast turnaround!
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Old November 15th, 2022, 12:52 PM   #7
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Took me 3 tries to completely fix my idle issue. Got my 2007 recently and it would never cold start without choke. Once it warms up the idle would never sit still at 1300. I adjusted the valves (motor sounds so perfect now). Chem dipped the carbs (everything apart but did not separate the dual carbs). Replaced the float valve and paid a lot of attention on the float seat. Adjusted the float height. Set mixture screw to stock spec. Bench sync’ed the carbs (was a little off). Replaced the petcock internal (was not closing). Now the bike starts perfect without choke and idle so smooth at 1300 rpm. I think the biggest thing I learned is that I did not know how a 250 suppose to behave when it was brand new. Now I know and in the future I can identify the irregularities much better.
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Old November 15th, 2022, 01:28 PM   #8
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Now the bike starts perfect without choke and idle so smooth at 1300 rpm.
Welcome to the board, Krnluve! A friend of mine used to run Centreville Allstate before he retired.

You're right that out of spec valves make these engines run badly, especially when cold. But being able to do a cold start without using the enricher may mean you have the pilot screws set a little too rich. Did you adjust them for fastest idle?
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Old November 15th, 2022, 06:03 PM   #9
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So I ended up taking apart the carbs completely. I chem dipped them for almost 24 hours, sprayed carb cleaner in every hole numerous times and used compressed air. Put them back together and it’s running exactly the same. 4.5 turns out, 2k rpm’s. Won’t idle otherwise. Beginning to think it’s another problem. Any ideas? I know I’m missing the breather hose that goes from the engine to the air box. Would that cause this? Otherwise idk if I need to check the valves again or change the air filter or what. I’m out of ideas.
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Old November 15th, 2022, 06:30 PM   #10
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In my scenario I learned that if no amount of cleaning works then something has to be drastically changed which in my case it was the float system. Did you run a test on the float fuel level to see if the float height is to spec? My float height was set but the float valve won’t fully close so I replaced it and really cleaned up the float seat. My mixture screw was set at 2.5 turns.
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Old November 15th, 2022, 10:17 PM   #11
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In my scenario I learned that if no amount of cleaning works then something has to be drastically changed which in my case it was the float system. Did you run a test on the float fuel level to see if the float height is to spec? My float height was set but the float valve wonít fully close so I replaced it and really cleaned up the float seat. My mixture screw was set at 2.5 turns.
No how do I go about testing that? May have to look into this next.
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Old November 16th, 2022, 07:14 AM   #12
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clear tube method, using remote, gravity fed fuel source
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File Type: jpg 6test.jpg (107.8 KB, 3 views)
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Old November 16th, 2022, 02:20 PM   #13
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Welcome to the board, Krnluve! A friend of mine used to run Centreville Allstate before he retired.

You're right that out of spec valves make these engines run badly, especially when cold. But being able to do a cold start without using the enricher may mean you have the pilot screws set a little too rich. Did you adjust them for fastest idle?
Forgot to say that months ago I was having issues and cleaned the carbs and I had the bike running like that. I had the screws out quite a bit but the bike was idling perfect for the first time in 7 years. And I was able to cold start without the choke. Just needed to give it gas, which I was also never able to do. Always needed the choke the whole time Iíve owned the bike, and whenever I tried to give it gas it would die. Then it was the opposite until it took a crap suddenly and has been the way itís been now.
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Old November 16th, 2022, 02:22 PM   #14
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clear tube method, using remote, gravity fed fuel source
Thanks Gordon. If I canít figure this out Iím just gonna have to bite the bullet and send them out to you. Finding a week where I can afford to do so is the issue lol otherwise I wouldíve done it already since I have probably spent more than it wouldíve costed to send to you
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Old November 16th, 2022, 03:41 PM   #15
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respectfully acknowledged and understood. If I can help answer any questions, either post up here or PM me.
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Old November 21st, 2022, 06:34 PM   #16
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respectfully acknowledged and understood. If I can help answer any questions, either post up here or PM me.
So I had an electrical problem. See my other post for info. But basically my R/R connector burnt out and melted. Upon disconnecting it and putting new connectors(I havenít reconnected the R/R yet to see if itís in working condition), I turned on the bike to test stator and it is now idling much better. I was able to put it now to 3.5 or 4 turns out(forgot which lol) and it is now idling below 2k. Any idea why? Would an electrical problem prevent it from idling correctly?
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Old November 21st, 2022, 07:29 PM   #17
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It could. For example, if the voltage to the ignition unit was dropping too low and spark was erratic.
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Old November 24th, 2022, 06:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by blanzer View Post
So I had an electrical problem. See my other post for info. But basically my R/R connector burnt out and melted. Upon disconnecting it and putting new connectors(I haven’t reconnected the R/R yet to see if it’s in working condition), I turned on the bike to test stator and it is now idling much better. I was able to put it now to 3.5 or 4 turns out(forgot which lol) and it is now idling below 2k. Any idea why? Would an electrical problem prevent it from idling correctly?
we are referencing both the pilot screws? At 3.5-4 turns out each? If so, I'd submit the needed overly rich settings are in compensation for constricted pilot passageways. They are tiny, clog quite easily. No secret these carbs are difficult to clean properly. Correct pilot screw settings should be nearer to 2 1/2 turn out, idle should be near to 1100-1200 with correct tuning.

Repair/correct the electrical end of things first.....then tuning.
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Old December 7th, 2022, 09:37 PM   #19
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we are referencing both the pilot screws? At 3.5-4 turns out each? If so, I'd submit the needed overly rich settings are in compensation for constricted pilot passageways. They are tiny, clog quite easily. No secret these carbs are difficult to clean properly. Correct pilot screw settings should be nearer to 2 1/2 turn out, idle should be near to 1100-1200 with correct tuning.

Repair/correct the electrical end of things first.....then tuning.
Electrical is resolved. Bike is running horrible still lol. Had to idle at 2k with both screws at 4.5 turns out. Not to mention it wonít idle perfectly until itís really hot. But that may be normal. Turns right on though. Sometimes when riding and then stopping it also drops the idle and dies if I donít give it throttle. Think itís really just clogged pathways? I didnít use any copper wire so possibly? Is there a way to know when itís clean when cleaning? Cuz I had carb cleaner and air blowing through everything. Soaked in chem dip for a day. Took them completely apart. All o rings and everything were replaced or still in good condition. Any other tips? I know I should use that other machine but donít have access to one right now. Hopefully I have a good month of work and I can maybe afford a week off to ship them to you cuz Iím over it lol
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Old Yesterday, 05:23 AM   #20
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Not to mention it wonít idle perfectly until itís really hot. But that may be normal.
No, when the carbs are right, and with correctly adjusted valves, it takes only a little warming up before the idle behaves.
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 AM   #21
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So moving forward.... @blanzer you posted you checked/set your valves early on in the thread. At what spec?

Factory spec is 0.003-0.005 inches for the intake valves and 0.004-0.006 inches for the exhaust valves. Exactly where are yours set?
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Old Yesterday, 07:58 AM   #22
blanzer
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So moving forward.... @blanzer you posted you checked/set your valves early on in the thread. At what spec?

Factory spec is 0.003-0.005 inches for the intake valves and 0.004-0.006 inches for the exhaust valves. Exactly where are yours set?
I always aim for the looser end so I don’t have to do it as often. I suppose I can check them again just to be sure. I’ll check them out later today. I don’t have the super accurate feeler gauges I have the ones with a range on them, so for .005 on the intake I use the .005-? And if that fits, then I use the .006-? And make sure that doesn’t fit. Might be putting them too loose perhaps?
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Old Yesterday, 08:11 AM   #23
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Rare i get a 250 to work on live, right here. However an EX500 twin vid to be attached, running perfectly after valves set and carb/petcock refurbs and carb pilot set and synch.

I prefer to use the mid-spec on intakes, loose end on the exhausts.

Anyways, here's the vid, during which I was checking for petcock leaks. Note steady 1200 rpm idle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4X5uOb6Xk

Added a bonus vid....a '38 BMW I got running from a long slumber. Similarities in idle, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8JSrpUpNig
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