January 16th, 2009, 01:42 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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DIY Shimming the carb needles.
It seems that we are missing a DIY thread on shimming the carb needles. Why should this be done? Well, these bikes run lean from the factory to ensure the best possible fuel economy, in some cases the bikes are so lean in makes them very hard to control throttle wise in the low end. Shimming the carb needles (adding washers under the needles) will give the engine more fuel which will make the bike a lot nicer to ride, especially in the low end.
So, decided you want to shim you needles? Read on Step 1, you will need to remove the fairings, See kkims thread DIY- Let's Get Nekkid!!! on how to do this. Step 2, you will need to remove the gas tank, again see kkims thread DIY- How to Remove the Gas Tank on how to remove this. Step 3. You will see the carbs right below where the gas tank was (circled in red) remove the 4 screws on the right carb cover first (this one is the easiest) I recommend unscrewing the screws that are the hardest to get to first as there will be less pressure on them to loosen (due to the other screws) and this will reduce the possibility of stripping the heads. As kkim says, ask me how I know! Step 4, with the carb cover open, remove the needle, this can be cone with tweezers, being careful not to touch the rubber diaphram as this is very dellicate and expensive to replace. (I had to remove the carbs right out to remove a stripped screw, but for shimming, it is not needed to remove them.) Step 5, add a washer or 2 to the needle, I originally used 4mm washers (as pictured) which were too big and the spring holding the needle down was not holding it down. and I have since gone to 3mm and these are perfect. Step 6, put the needle back in, the spring back in and replace the carb cover being careful to ensure that the rubber diaphram is sitting in the slot for it so as it will not get pinched by the carb cover. Step 7, repeat step 3 to 6 for the remaining carb. Step 8, put the gas tank back on and reconnect everything, make sure that the bike will start and rev without dying then put the seat back on and take it for a short ride round the block. If you are happy with the changes, put everything back together. If you are not happy, try removing, or adding a washer and testing to find the best setting. Once you are happy, put everything back together and test ride again. |
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January 16th, 2009, 02:06 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Thank you, sir!!
Some added pictures for clarity... tops of the carbs that need to be accessed to get to the the needles. Again, you don't need to remove the carbs to access the needles. They were removed in this picture because these were taken when I was installing a jet kit. If you are using a #2 phillips to remove the screws, press down hard...really hard, before you apply sideways pressure to undo the screw, otherwise you stand a good chance of stripping the head out. And if you are doing this while the carbs are still in the bike, you will need a long shaft #2 screwdriver to reach the screws through the frame. stock needle with and without 3mm washers added album for anyone interested containing more pictures taken when I removed airbox and installed a jet kit. http://picasaweb.google.com/kkim993/AirboxAndRejet# |
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January 16th, 2009, 02:15 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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No problems
Thanks for adding those pics, I didn't really have any better than what I posted. |
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January 16th, 2009, 02:18 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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No, David... thank you for taking the time to do the DIY. It's always great when one can help others by posting a few pics and listing their experiences. Thanks for sharing your time and effort.
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January 16th, 2009, 05:42 AM | #5 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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You beat me to it. I was going to represent the black bike, but NO!!!!! even the green owners are faster. C'mon David, give a girl a chance!!! lol. Great job, thanks for the DIY.
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January 17th, 2009, 01:47 AM | #6 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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Quote:
No worries I don't think it is just kkim out need to worry about |
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January 17th, 2009, 11:06 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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A concept that is purely foreign to green bike owners. We win so often, we don't understand the concept of cheating to win. Tell me sir... lose so often it's become a way of life? maybe it's time to buy a green bike... or at the very least rattle can it. Then, your problems will be solved!
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January 17th, 2009, 01:21 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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Great to hear about the bike running well. It's my firm belief these bikes are too lean from the factory and a simple thing like shimming will help the bike be a lot more rider friendly. A complete rejet will allow you to fine tune to your heart's (and patience's) content. Looks like you have it pretty close to ideal for your location.
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January 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM | #9 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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Quote:
Yeah yeah, we know, you must resort to cheating to beat a green bike |
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January 17th, 2009, 08:57 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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oh, oh....
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January 18th, 2009, 01:03 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sam
Location: Northern Virginia
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 and ZX-12R 2000 Posts: A lot.
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January 18th, 2009, 02:41 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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January 18th, 2009, 02:41 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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January 18th, 2009, 06:26 PM | #14 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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sorry, noob question but could someone explain briefly or point me to a link as to what the difference is with shimming and installing a jet kit? is it the needle that is different?
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January 18th, 2009, 09:36 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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A jet kit is a specifically designed kit that you purchase to improve the jetting in a bike. It usually contains main jets, proprietary adjustable needles and mixture screw recommendations.
Shimming is raising the stock, non adjustable needles by using small washers. Both shimming and a jet kit are both working to improve jetting of a stock bike. Shimming is crude, effective way to optimize jetting by using what you have to achieve it. It will never be as precise or adjustable as a jet kit, but in the case of our 250Rs, it can improve an otherwise lean stock bike to be a lot more user friendly. |
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January 18th, 2009, 11:17 PM | #16 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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ah ok. thanks.
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January 24th, 2009, 11:15 PM | #17 |
Frak It
Name: Sean
Location: SWFL
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 199
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I don't suppose anyone has any idea how many washers are best? I'd hate to have to do it more than once.
Or is it a personal opinion type deal? |
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January 25th, 2009, 12:07 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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Each bike is different. I started with 2 washers and was happy with the results, so I left it this way. I have got the stock can (AreaP Long Quiet Carbon Fibre currently somewhere between the states and NZ on its way here ) and the snorkel removed.
Are you running a stock can (exhaust) and snorkel in the airbox still installed? |
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January 25th, 2009, 12:22 AM | #19 | |
FORMER MOTORCYCLE RIDER
Name: Steve
Location: On a Trek SU200 or in my CRX
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Rode an 08 250r then rode an 08 ZX-6R until i totaled it on 7/10/10 Posts: 758
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Quote:
I have a 15" Titanium Area P that is also in transit.....But it's only going from cali to missouri. No rush tho......spring is still a long way off |
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January 25th, 2009, 12:28 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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Nice, great service AreaP have! Yeah, well it is the middle of Summer here and damn nice riding weather (if a little hot at times), Autumn is next. I should really take my camera when I go for rides. I found some mint scenery, park her up, take pics with nice scenery in the background
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January 25th, 2009, 12:32 AM | #21 |
FORMER MOTORCYCLE RIDER
Name: Steve
Location: On a Trek SU200 or in my CRX
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Rode an 08 250r then rode an 08 ZX-6R until i totaled it on 7/10/10 Posts: 758
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January 25th, 2009, 12:55 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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*Ahem* *ahem*
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January 25th, 2009, 08:17 AM | #23 | |
Frak It
Name: Sean
Location: SWFL
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 199
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Quote:
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January 25th, 2009, 10:59 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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In that case, I would start with 2 washers and take out the snorkel (it is completely reversable), this will make the bike much nicer to ride, and as you said is only 15 cents.
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February 1st, 2009, 06:04 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Levi
Location: St. George, Utah
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191
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On a scale of 1 to 10 how hard would you say this mod is? How long does it take? I am familiar with carbs on other things like dirt bikes and 4 wheelers if that makes a difference. I am thinking about doing this, just debating on if I will screw something up...
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February 1st, 2009, 06:17 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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It is really very easy, as Sam said, easier then the HID DIY.
It really doesn't talk all that long, it depends on how fast you are at taking the fairings and gas tank off. Once they are off, it does not take long. (depending on how many times you change the washers) |
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February 1st, 2009, 07:06 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kim
Location: mundo de ensueño
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.
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I did this all by my lonesome, except for borrowing my hubby to help me get the tank off since I didn't want to drop it or anything, and I did that, an oil change, detailing, and lubing the chain in an afternoon, and that was with a stop to get oil and another stop for the filter... Not a bad project at all.... I'd say maybe a 5 only because it's easy to lose things like fasteners if you're not careful....
Radio Shack has a great deal on washers in this pack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103391 |
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February 1st, 2009, 09:11 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Levi
Location: St. George, Utah
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191
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Sweet thanks everyone....maybe I can get around to it sometime soon (preferably when I am almost out of gas). Maybe make it sound a little better and run smoother with the snorkle removal
Ha ha ha sorry, heaven forbid something go as smooth as that did for me. I've just worked on motorcycles all my life as well as cars (although my life isn't that long as I am only 19) but its just something I have always done and have become pretty familiar with how everything works. Not to mention the DIY Pix help wonders as I am a visual learner. Ha ha that is funny though, I can probably bust it on in 20-30 in complete darkness with hurricane like winds |
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February 2nd, 2009, 12:49 AM | #29 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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gonna be doing this mod this week. i have one main concern...
when you put the washers on the needle and you go to drop the needle into the vacuum piston, how do you keep the washers from falling off the needle? thanks. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 12:52 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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You can hold the washers and the needle, drop the needle tip into the hole and then just let it down, they won't fall off it the needle is in the hole.
Or you can take the rubber diaphrams off, by poking your finger in the hole where the needle goes, and lift up, that is what I have done. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 01:08 AM | #31 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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thanks. i was lightly considering using a weak glue and glueing the washers to the needle, but i won't now.
seems easy enough. |
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February 2nd, 2009, 01:13 AM | #32 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: David
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564
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OK, I don't see a need to use glue myself. It is really is easy. I found that the biggest part is the thought of tearing into the engine, but if you take your time and note what you do, it is so easy.
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February 2nd, 2009, 01:43 AM | #33 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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you can just use a dab of grease to stick the washers to the needle.
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February 2nd, 2009, 10:14 AM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Levi
Location: St. George, Utah
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191
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^^Yes I could but as a poor college student the 3 cents for some washers is better then having to buy a jet kit I plan on doing this sometime with in the next few weeks, I will take a stop watch out and let ya know what the new record time will be jk
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February 2nd, 2009, 03:33 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kim
Location: mundo de ensueño
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.
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Gary - I just used a dab of Vaseline each time I've done it or helped someone, no problems so far!
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February 3rd, 2009, 12:13 AM | #36 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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kim, thanks for the link about radio shack having the assortment bag of washers. home depot didn't have any and then i remembered your post. now i can put 10 washers on each needle if i need to
thanks kelly and kim about the grease and vaseline tip. i don't have any vaseline, but i got some grease. will try that out if i am having problems. as always, i appreciate the help. |
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February 3rd, 2009, 10:10 AM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Levi
Location: St. George, Utah
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191
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Home Depot and Lowes doesn't have them?
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February 3rd, 2009, 10:17 AM | #38 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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i didn't check lowe's because it was further away and it was getting late, but home depot didn't. the smallest i saw were #6 washers. maybe they had it and i just didn't see it.
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February 3rd, 2009, 03:16 PM | #39 | |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
yeah, i picked up the washers at radio shack last night. a friend is going to help me remove the gas tank tonight and hopefully if it doesn't get dark too fast, i will shim the needles and maybe put it back together. |
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February 3rd, 2009, 03:35 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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you could easily remove the tank yourself.... it's not that heavy. Just be sure to have a blanket to put it down on and a piece of 2x4 to keep the tank from resting on the fuel petcock.
go for it... you'll most likely be done by the time your friend shows up. |
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