Rear-wheel feels like it's kicking out of alignment

[Sykes92]

It's been getting warmer and so I am trying to take the time and practice skills I have yet to work on. I was trying to test the limits of lean angle on the 250, and I was able to nearly wipe the chicken strips away in a large parking lot. However every now and then when I was in a lean, it would feel like the rear was upset for a second and fixed itself. The parking lot wasn't totally smooth. So I wasn't sure if it was the bike, the pavement, or myself. But I'm willing to guess it's me and the way I'm handling the bike. I'm not really sure though.

Also, how do you know when you need to adopt a knee-dragging BP on a bike? At what point, in deep angle, is it not okay to stay centered?

As a side note, I was practicing all this at around 20ish MPH.

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who takes the time to read!

[krolinked]

Maybe it is sliding and recatching grip?
Parking lots aren't the grippiest of places.

[Alex]

If you lose traction and crash, just lean slightly less next time.


Glad I could help.

[alex.s]

wheres the video

[Sirref]

check the allignment notches on the swingarm to make sure that they're the same.
It's probably either slightly inconsistent throttle control due to low speed or lack of grip as you were in a parking lot and those downright suck.

[alex.s]

how much throttle is on when it slides

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by krolinked

Maybe it is sliding and recatching grip?
Parking lots aren't the grippiest of places.

Maybe. This one was no exception haha.

Originally Posted by Alex

If you lose traction and crash, just lean slightly less next time.


Glad I could help.

Originally Posted by Sirref

check the allignment notches on the swingarm to make sure that they're the same.
It's probably either slightly inconsistent throttle control due to low speed or lack of grip as you were in a parking lot and those downright suck.

Ill check the alignment notches but they should be okay.

Originally Posted by alex.s

how much throttle is on when it slides

I want to say I was in 2nd gear and it was revved to 7k the whole time I was riding in the circles or practicing turns.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

I want to say I was in 2nd gear and it was revved to 7k the whole time I was riding in the circles or practicing turns.

the gear number and rev range is not throttle

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the gear number and rev range is not throttle

Well I dont know how to really give you a better example of how much throttle the bike is getting. If I had to pull a number out of my ass, I would say 1/4th cranked?

[alex.s]

what happens to the rear when you give more throttle? what happens when you give less throttle? how quickly are you applying the throttle? does it slide when transitioning between on/off? what happens when you try changing the throttle position slower? quicker?

these are the details you need to ask while you are riding in order to get a grasp of why you are sliding. if you understand everything you are doing and what effects those have on your bike, you should be able to deduce what is going wrong or right.

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by alex.s

what happens to the rear when you give more throttle? what happens when you give less throttle? how quickly are you applying the throttle? does it slide when transitioning between on/off? what happens when you try changing the throttle position slower? quicker?

these are the details you need to ask while you are riding in order to get a grasp of why you are sliding. if you understand everything you are doing and what effects those have on your bike, you should be able to deduce what is going wrong or right.

Hmm, that should give me something to think about next time I go out and practice. I tried to keep the throttle pretty consistent (not speeding up or slowing down) but I was probably more focused on the lean angle itself. I'll keep that in mind, also it might not hurt for me to film myself and go over the footage to analyze.

[JohnnyBravo]

Did someone say chicken???
Congrats on losing the strips! As for the rest or blah blah technical jargon blah blah, whichever you prefer.

Only time my rear stepped out was banging gears down way to fast, hit first and wondered if I was at a carnival

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

...........I was trying to test the limits of lean angle on the 250, and I was able to nearly wipe the chicken strips away in a large parking lot............

Also, how do you know when you need to adopt a knee-dragging BP on a bike? At what point, in deep angle, is it not okay to stay centered?

Your tires were over-inflated for those conditions.

Why did you try finding those limits?
What skill would that develop?

Never, while riding on public roads around legal speeds.
What is the real reason for adopting a knee-dragging BP on a bike?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Motofool

What is the real reason for adopting a knee-dragging BP on a bike?

it makes it easier to feel your lean angle

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Did someone say chicken???
Congrats on losing the strips! As for the rest or blah blah technical jargon blah blah, whichever you prefer.

Only time my rear stepped out was banging gears down way to fast, hit first and wondered if I was at a carnival

I've done the same once or twice lol. It's pretty gnarly, in a bad way.

Originally Posted by Motofool

Your tires were over-inflated for those conditions.

Why did you try finding those limits?
What skill would that develop?

Never, while riding on public roads around legal speeds.
What is the real reason for adopting a knee-dragging BP on a bike?

Well I know I would never need actual "my knee is touching the ground" BP, but I've seen people riding twisties and using that sort of BP to reduce lean angle. I was really just trying to find out what the limit was so that I could understand when I'm close to reaching that limit in any given situation. I am more-so trying to understand how to handle twisties. I don't want to lowside in that kind of situation. As for my tires, I checked them today and they were 28 Front and 32 Rear

[alex.s]

when you start hearing things scraping on the ground, you are close to that limit

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by alex.s

when you start hearing things scraping on the ground, you are close to that limit

Will I actually hear it scrape? I always imagined as soon as it contacted the ground all hell would brake loose.

[Sirref]

You'll hear it scrape but you can force it beyond the limit, to increase the lean angle too quickly near the limit will put you on the ground but increasing it quickly to a certain point which you are comfortable with then increasing it slowly from there allows you to find the limit and know when to stop adding lean.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Also, how do you know when you need to adopt a knee-dragging BP on a bike? At what point, in deep angle, is it not okay to stay centered?

You answered your own question in the title of this thread. But to be perfectly clear, something needs to change if the bike tells you something is wrong. If a hanging off position helps, then no harm no foul. Along the lines of what alex was asking, how do you think using a hanging off position would help?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

..........Well I know I would never need actual "my knee is touching the ground" BP, but I've seen people riding twisties and using that sort of BP to reduce lean angle. I was really just trying to find out what the limit was so that I could understand when I'm close to reaching that limit in any given situation. I am more-so trying to understand how to handle twisties. I don't want to lowside in that kind of situation. As for my tires, I checked them today and they were 28 Front and 32 Rear

I am not criticizing your practices at all.
I just want to know if you know all about what you are practicing and wonder about the reasons that you have.

You may be approaching this lean limit from the wrong direction; it may look cool, but lean angle is an undesirable result or cornering fast on two wheels; hence, the less, the better.

Cornering fast without crashing is a desirable result of applying the proper techniques and judgement and smoothness.

The faster you corner, the more difficult judging line and entry speed is and the smoother on the throttle, brake, suspension and bar you need to be:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ho...ur_motorcycle/

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fe...ng_your_knees/

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ne...ning_the_bike/

Yes, those pressures are too high for 20 mph and parking lots (rubber remains too cool).
Try reducing those to 60~70% for your next practice (don't forget re-inflating after practice).
In that way, the rear rubber will not be your limit.

[JohnnyBravo]

I did it once, it was funny later that afternoon, at the time... No fun

[cbinker]

As professional Instructor and book writer Lee Parks said(not exactly): Bikes dont do things every once and a while, if it isnt doing it all the time, it is the rider doing something irregular.

[old3]

A few grains of sand, gravel, a spot of oil, coolant, a stick etc, can all cause the tire to skip. Cracks and tar strips too.

What tires are you using?

Hanging off is great for getting more weight down and in when your clearance is used up, but at 20 MPH you should be able to just move your butt over, dragging a knee isn't necessary. Watch your feet as you get lower, and if you catch a hard part it can lever the rear up causing tire skip to a crash. Know what your are dragging and the limits to hard parts like exhausts and stands.

Parking lot drills are a great tool and lots of fun.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Also, how do you know when you need to adopt a knee-dragging BP on a bike? At what point, in deep angle, is it not okay to stay centered?
!

I have that BP even when I don't really need to, especially if I don't know a road. I'd rather have the extra traction if the corner tightens up, if there's a hazard, etc than to have to try to adjust mid-corner. To me, good form is good form and becomes natural as you make it a habit. The best place to practice is at the track.

Edit: That said after riding thousands of mountain corners over the years, I have never dragged knee on the street. Always keep some reserve when the conditions are as unpredictable as street conditions tend to be.

[Kevin1956]

If it feels like something mechanical is shifting around, check the swingarm. If it's a pre-gen, put it on the center stand, a new-gen, suspend the bike with the rear wheel off the ground. Remove the rear wheel, grab the swingarm and see if it moves laterally left to right or can be twisted. It should only pivot up and down, not move in any other direction. It could be the swingarm bushings/bearings being worn at the pivot point.

[ez12a]

are you riding over painted lines as you do this? Might explain the little losses of traction

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ally99

I have never dragged knee on the street.

you drag knee when you crash, don't you?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

Will I actually hear it scrape? I always imagined as soon as it contacted the ground all hell would brake loose.

Take a look at the underside of your foot pegs. See those protrusions near they end? that's what they're for. Yes you will hear them scrape (a great example is in the TOTW II video, BTW).

When those scrape, all that happens is that the foot peg folds. That's why they make it so it will fold.

It's when "hard parts" (i.e., stuff that doesn't give way) hit the ground that bad things happen. The bike pivots on the hard part and the tires leave the pavement. Boom.

But to echo what others have said... the objective isn't to get a knee down. The objective is to ride safely. Hanging off keeps the bike more upright, offering more traction for a given corner speed... which is sure to be too fast for any street scenario. Folks do it in the twisties 'cause it looks good and is fun... you get to play "boy racer."

Wanting to get rid of chicken strips is pointless IMHO. Why? So you can brag about how far you lean?

Riding well, riding safely, riding with ultimate skill and having fun doing all of it... those are my goals. End of story. If I've got massive chicken strips and knee pucks that never get scratched I don't give a rip. Hanging off, getting a knee down, all those are side effects.

But if I DO wind up scuffing a puck when I finally go to the track, you can bet your sweet hippie I'm going to post a proud pic of it!

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you drag knee when you crash, don't you?

Touche. In that case, I've even dragged elbow! And helmet!