uphill hairpin turns

[Jefft]

So, what's the best way to take tight, uphill, hairpin turns? Specifically R handers? I've been venturing out a bit more as I get more comfortable with the bike and have found some reasonably technical-feeling roads. There are a few of these steep right-handers that surprised the crap out of me the first times I ran across them. Fortunately, I was going slow, but not slow enough to lose all momentum and just tip over in the turn.

I decide to then practice these a bit more to try to get more comfortable. What would be the recommended best technique to skate through this turn seamlessly? Hypothetically, if one were to lean too far could the muffler scrape, levering the bike and then spin it away into the ravine on the opposite side of the road while the rider slides along his own path on his ATGATT-clad ass towards the center line? You know, just as an example. I am assuming throttle control would be quite crucial even though this uphill turn is relatively slow. If we postulate that the throttle was not snatched nor abruptly rolled off, would Thor's hammer still reach down through the clouds to smack said rider down just because it was a nice day and the new-gen ninja did not have any scratches on it yet? As GoPro proof exists, this example,once again, is just a thought exercise.

I really would like to get the input of you good riders out there as I am mildly annoyed with reviewing this scenario. I would hate for this to happen again, er, for the first time.

[alex.s]

@Gurk tells me to just lean more and give it gas but i donno if thats the right answer

[alex.s]

but anyway if you are dragging hard parts before your arm is rubbing it means you're screwing it up. or you have no arms or maybe one is tied up or only one is gone. who knows man. what i'm trying to say is get better tires and try to touch your nose to the ground first before your exhaust

[Sirref]

First off, the approach is the same whether it's a right or left handed corner. Take it slow, lean your upper body more than the bike, don't worry about leaning too far that's what going slower is for.

as for throttle control, the general rule is once you're on the throttle continue rolling on the throttle smoothly and consistently throughout the corner. The reason for this is to shift the weight back to spread the load evenly between the front and larger rear tire. Uphill (in this case) you roll on slower since you don't need to add as much power. Downhill though you roll on a bit quicker because it takes more to shift the weight to the rear.

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by Jefft

would Thor's hammer still reach down through the clouds to smack said rider down just because it was a nice day and the new-gen ninja did not have any scratches on it yet?

Aye. The gods will smite thee whilst upon ye small steed. Make you a true rider they will, with war stories and battle scars from the depths of a ravine thou hath not seen beforeth. A poem cometh to thine mind, of a worthy rider. Thou shall bow to him.

A KNYGHT (Alex S.) ther was, and that a worthy man (),
That fro the tyme that he first bigan
45 To riden out, he loved chivalrie,
Trouthe and honour, fredom and curteisie.
Ful worthy was he in his lordes werre,
And therto hadde he riden, no man ferre,
As wel in cristendom as in hethenesse,
50 And evere honoured for his worthynesse

[CycleCam303]

Another useful tip is to remember to get fingers over the clutch lever. I don't know how steep we are talking here. But I do know that feathering the clutch or just being ready to fan the clutch can be very helpful if you find yourself slowing to a crawl going uphill.

[SteveL]

Use as much road as you can.
Stay away from the apex as this is the steepest part of the turn
Slip the clutch to keep rpm high enough to have power.
Move your butt half off the bike
Enjoy

Steve

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Another useful tip is to remember to get fingers over the clutch lever. I don't know how steep we are talking here. But I do know that feathering the clutch or just being ready to fan the clutch can be very helpful if you find yourself slowing to a crawl going uphill.

[Jefft]

Not quite understanding the feathering the clutch rec. I always have fingers on the clutch and brake and was in 2nd to ensure I wasn't going to bog down in the turn. I'm thinking I was too close to the inside line, pushed the inside bar a bit too much to lean, and may have been too generous with cracking the throttle. I was definitely looking up at the next curve up. Looks like body position is the key for me here?

Have to admit, hearing that scrrrrrgnkkk!! while going 10-15 miph was pretty unexpected.

[CycleCam303]

Feathering the clutch is for those situations when you're going really slow up hill. You said around 10-15 mph? That could warrant some clutch slipping just to prevent the bike from stalling. It just makes things easier. I'm in California. What roads are you referring to?

[Jefft]

Cam, I'm referring to a couple of the roads above Steven's Creek Reservoir. Redwood Gulch and Montebello. They seem like good practice roads as long as the road bikers don't kill me. Getting used to having them pass me on the downhills. I figured I'm wearing a helmet, they don't know me, and I have nothing to prove.

[Jiggles]

You could always get off the bike and walk it around the corner

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You could always get off the bike and walk it around the corner

Cameron's knew methods with the ducati for sure

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Jefft

Not quite understanding the feathering the clutch rec. I always have fingers on the clutch and brake and was in 2nd to ensure I wasn't going to bog down in the turn. I'm thinking I was too close to the inside line, pushed the inside bar a bit too much to lean, and may have been too generous with cracking the throttle. I was definitely looking up at the next curve up. Looks like body position is the key for me here?

Have to admit, hearing that scrrrrrgnkkk!! while going 10-15 miph was pretty unexpected.

The fact that you are questioning on what feathering the clutch has to do with any slow speed maneuvers including uphill hairpins, tells me you don't know how to use the clutch to its fullest. Someone asked this question awhile back and I gave a detailed explanation of the technique and benefits but I'm not in the mood right now to think that hard.

As for dragging hard parts, that's improper riding style or simply put bad body position. Quickest way to judge you body position is from a third person perspective so get one of us fellow NorCal peeps to go for a ride and we'll give you some advise.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Cameron's knew methods with the ducati for sure

That would be my method too!! HAHAHA

Kidding aside, I always drag the rear brake and stay on the friction zone of the clutch to stabilize the bike whenever I'm doing a slow speed off camber turn.

I am new to riding street bikes, but its one of those things i picked up riding a dirtbike were traction is usually an issue.

[Jefft]

Like the Jiggles method. 10 for practicality, 0 for style, though.

I always am on the friction zone and rear brake with slow parking maneuvering and U-turns but had slung into this hairpin with reasonable speed and wasn't worried bout a slow tip-over. Maybe that was part of the problem. Not slow enough. Still shocked at how the shiny parts of the bike help it slide away. Very impressive.

[Jefft]

Jason, getting together with some norcal members is probably a great idea. I've only ridden solo thus far and only have my own seat-of-the-pants impression of where I am on the bike. Just wondering how far perception from reality it actually is. likely quite a bit. Just didn't want to be responsible for knocking other riders accidentally into a ravine.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Jefft

Jason, getting together with some norcal members is probably a great idea. I've only ridden solo thus far and only have my own seat-of-the-pants impression of where I am on the bike. Just wondering how far perception from reality it actually is. likely quite a bit. Just didn't want to be responsible for knocking other riders accidentally into a ravine.

Nah most us well ether be to far ahead of you for you to hit us or behind you just for the pure entertainment for laughing about how pathetic we looked when we started. I know @CycleCam303 is just dying to ride that new Duc as much as possible maybe he'll take you out for a ride.

I don't get out and just ride much these for just the fun of it. I'm ether commuting or headed to a Mtb race with the ninja and I think following a bike with a bike hanging off the rear and into the sky would be move then a little distracting for most riders.

Don't be shy most riders will understand that your a newb and it they don't want to deal with you then they won't ride with you till your better. Others won't care and don't mind going super slow if it means teaching someone to be a better rider. But its a fact you'll get to know nether type of people if your to self conscious to ask for help.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Cameron's knew methods with the ducati for sure

You know what? Marsh creek had some construction on it and I shamelessly hopped off and did a 3 point turn and went back lol!

Jeff if you want to ride let me know. I'm trying to break my motor in ASAP.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jefft

So, what's the best way to take tight, uphill, hairpin turns? Specifically R handers?..........

The geometry of such a turn makes it like riding over the inside of a cone.
That steals a lot of ground clearance for leaning aft and forward the contact patches of the tires.

The only things that effectively limits leaning are:
- Slower speed.
- Greater radius of turn.
- Hanging-off.

Keep steady throttle rather than accelerating during such turn, because uphill turns naturally load the rear tire more than the frontal tire.

[Jefft]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The geometry of such a turn makes it like riding over the inside of a cone.
That steals a lot of ground clearance for leaning aft and forward the contact patches of the tires.

The only things that effectively limits leaning are:
- Slower speed.
- Greater radius of turn.
- Hanging-off.

Keep steady throttle rather than accelerating during such turn, because uphill turns naturally load the rear tire more than the frontal tire.

Hernan, pretty sure....too peppy on entry, too tight, tipped in too much, no hanging off, accelerating as soon as leaned over. There should be extra credit for doing it _all_ wrong.

[alex.s]

when dealing with ground clearance issues, wheelying helps a lot.

[cbinker]

Always take those with extreme caution, on coming traffic likes to cut those corners. Stay left of center of lane going slower then normal and be ready for on coming traffic to be in your lane.

[Dredgshadow]

I find the uphill turns to be easier for sure, but it is purely a mental thing. It reminds me (I know this will sound dumb as hell) of disc golf putts. Downhill is just harder for some reason. Going uphill always seems easier, but going right does NOT. Going right I feel is more awkward for some, if not most, of motorcyclists.
Hanging off, and I don't mean MotoGP hanging off, has really helped me a lot in hairpin turns. What I mean is that shifting your weight down and in has an unbelievable way of making turns seem half as sharp as they actually are.

[Dredgshadow]

Originally Posted by cbinker

Always take those with extreme caution, on coming traffic likes to cut those corners. Stay left of center of lane going slower then normal and be ready for on coming traffic to be in your lane.

Always! Lane crossing cars are absolutely terrible and absolutely everywhere.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

@Gurk tells me to just lean more and give it gas but i donno if thats the right answer

What? You're not on his ignore list?!? Wow, I feel quite privileged now!

Originally Posted by Jefft

So, what's the best way to take tight, uphill, hairpin turns? Specifically R handers?

I decide to then practice these a bit more to try to get more comfortable. What would be the recommended best technique to skate through this turn seamlessly? Hypothetically, if one were to lean too far could the muffler scrape, levering the bike and then spin it away into the ravine on the opposite side of the road while the rider slides along his own path on his ATGATT-clad ass towards the center line? You know, just as an example. I am assuming throttle control would be quite crucial even though this uphill turn is relatively slow.

I really would like to get the input of you good riders out there as I am mildly annoyed with reviewing this scenario. I would hate for this to happen again, er, for the first time.

Uphill corners sure as he'll beat downhill. Seems many folks struggle more with righties. Do you have stock exhaust? The stock 250 muffler is big as hell. When I was a new rider, I dragged muffler through a mountain corner and got lucky. No matter what situation you find yourself, throttle control is ALWAYS of utmost importance. Even if hard parts are scraping, fight the urge to roll off the throttle...keep steady, loose, and know your bike can't take another single input. Even dragging hard parts, the bike will pull through unless the corner tightens or you react with a detrimental survival reaction.
Read or watch Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ally99

What? You're not on his ignore list?!? Wow, I feel quite privileged now!

no, i'm still on his ignore list. i troll too much.

[ally99]