ninja 400rr... wait, what!?

[Gumachine]

so i went to my dealer today and chatted it up with some of the guys there.
apparently theres going to be a 400class ninja coming out this fall (in japan, america, and europe as i was told) has anyone heard of this?!

ive done a google search but theres basically nothing, all i could come across of was this scan. which is the exact same one i saw today at the dealer.

edit. its been tagged at 650,000円
which translates to roughly 6,912.69 USD according to xe.
of course its subject to change

[sombo]

Sure, why not. I mean they still make both the 250cc and 400cc inline 4's that used to power the old ZX2R and ZX4R in the past. Might have to look into that if/when they show up. Would be nice to have just a bit more power then the 250 but don't feel I really need the power of the 600's on up.

[250fan]

Awesome!!!!! I would rock that!!!

[QuarterBoreNinja]

A Ninja 400RR? If it looks like it's true, I'll have my name on the waiting list.

[Racer x]

Sold

[europachris]

Hopefully it will be a twin cylinder machine with decent torque rather than some screaming bumblebee 16,000 rpm engine. I was thinking just the other day while test riding her 250 after the carb tweaks how nice it would be if they could keep the same basic chassis, upgrade a few bits, and put a really nice 400cc twin in it (FUEL INJECTED!) - carbs have no place on a modern bike - sorry. ...ducking.....

[Snake]

If it is true then I guess it will take the place of the Ninja 500 that is no longer available. Very interesting.

[binlagin]

Fuel injection?

[Apex]

If it stays as a twin, I think I may be game for that....

Even if it goes I-4, I may still be game...

400's are the perfect bike size.

[ScraitT]

I'm not sure if I believe it or not. It looks a little TOO close to the current 250r in that picture...the only thing that looks changed is the mid section of the front fairing and some black added.

Also, based on the picture, it's a twin, not a 4 (header). It only had 1 disk up front like the 250 (which could be just fine, but the 650r does have much larger dual disks). And, the biggest throw off is it appears to have DUAL EXHAUST...however it's an extremely bad photoshop because the other exhaust can is almost rubbing the wheel given the pace between them...

It's a possibility...but I don't think kawi would release something THAT close to the 250r, it's virtually Identical.

For reference, similar angle shot of the 250r

[kevlarorc]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

And, the biggest throw off is it appears to have DUAL EXHAUST...however it's an extremely bad photoshop because the other exhaust can is almost rubbing the wheel given the pace between them...

yeah, you're right about that exhaust. maybe it's just the angle the picture was taken at but it definitely looks angled too high and much too close to the wheel.

[Daeldren]

I call shenanigans, as was stated above they would have to use a beefier frame for a bigger motor and that picture is of a ninja 250r.

Lets also not forget the rumors coming out of japan a while back about Yamaha building a yzfr250 which never happened.

[TrueFaith]

That EX-4 looks an awful lot like a doctored picture of a Ninja 500.
Speculation means nothing if it's not available for sale in the US.

[250Rocket]

Seems to good to be true. I'll get excited when official news comes out.

[Apex]

Yeah. I won't be jumping up and down until Kawi announces something in a PR. Until then, I'll just sit back and wait...keeping my little 250.

[CC Cowboy]

What happened to "the 250 is all I need" and "the 250 does everything I could ever want" and "my mommy won't let me get anything bigger"?

[jonthechron]

Doh - I hope they don't market em down here.

[sharky nrk]

I think a 400cc sport bike would be a very welcome addition.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

I'm not sure if I believe it or not. It looks a little TOO close to the current 250r in that picture...the only thing that looks changed is the mid section of the front fairing and some black added.

Also, based on the picture, it's a twin, not a 4 (header). It only had 1 disk up front like the 250 (which could be just fine, but the 650r does have much larger dual disks). And, the biggest throw off is it appears to have DUAL EXHAUST...however it's an extremely bad photoshop because the other exhaust can is almost rubbing the wheel given the pace between them...

It's a possibility...but I don't think kawi would release something THAT close to the 250r, it's virtually Identical.

For reference, similar angle shot of the 250r

You're right. The black side covers have been split and 'shopped so that half of it is part of the green fairing. If they did that on a real bike they would not have preserved the original line if the black color didn't continue as well.

Honestly, if they made it, the more like a current-gen 250 it looks the more I'd like it. I like the 650R-styled front blinkers, but I'd also want the underslung exhaust (or an undertail, but that's just me). Buell says that it's the only correct place for an exhaust.

Originally Posted by Daeldren

I call shenanigans, as was stated above they would have to use a beefier frame for a bigger motor and that picture is of a ninja 250r.

Lets also not forget the rumors coming out of japan a while back about Yamaha building a yzfr250 which never happened.

There's a lot of room in the 250's frame actually. Certain angles make it look like there is nothing under the fairings!

[250Rocket]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

What happened to "the 250 is all I need" and "the 250 does everything I could ever need (correction)" and "my mommy won't let me get anything bigger"?

Who is this directed at, because it feels like it's directly at me.

If that's the case. The 250 is all i need, the 400 would become a want, which is a different case. I'd still probably keep my 250. Be careful between want and need. Both statement can hold true independently.

This also applies to other types of motorcycles. I can see myself with a Yamaha WR250X. Very different than my 250R.

All the statements I make are along the lines " The 250R is good enough to handle it's own so shut up and stop bashing it, but that doesn't mean that i want nothing but the 250R"

[KELPHYN]

Sounds good. Looks like an up dated 500 Ninja. Does look a little photoshopy but might just be the fold in the page. If it shares parts with the 250R great, keeps price down. Some things are noticably bigger. Bigger front & rear disks, wider fairing slightly different upper fair, different lower fairing, slightly bigger tires but look like 17"ers. Anyway if it's true, probably come here as a 500, which would be great. Didn't think they would bring back the 500 as they have the 650 now, but looking at the new 500 it looks like it would closer in height to the 250r (good thing) as the 650r is a fairly tall bike so the NEW 500r would be an awesome choice for short of leg crowd looking to move up/or start on something bigger than the 250r without going right to a supersport. i think it would be an excellant move by Kawisaki to do it. If they do and it feels like sitting on my 250r I would definitly consider it because I haven't found anything that I like sitting on more than my two-fiddy :-)

[mikedabike64]

that might drive the cost of a new gen 250 down further, that would be good for some, not good for others, if there's another small bike out there to chose from then the 250 would be less unique less dear, less demand = lower price. well its a stretch but possible.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by 250Rocket

Who is this directed at, because it feels like it's directly at me.

If that's the case. The 250 is all i need, the 400 would become a want, which is a different case. I'd still probably keep my 250. Be careful between want and need. Both statement can hold true independently.

This also applies to other types of motorcycles. I can see myself with a Yamaha WR250X. Very different than my 250R.

All the statements I make are along the lines " The 250R is good enough to handle it's own so shut up and stop bashing it, but that doesn't mean that i want nothing but the 250R"

Rob, it's not directed at you. I read so many posts about how everyone thinks the 250 is the ultimate bike. I'd like to have a few hundred bikes, actually just give me the keys to the Barber Museum and I'd be happy.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

What happened to "the 250 is all I need" and "the 250 does everything I could ever want" and "my mommy won't let me get anything bigger"?

+1...It looks like everyone is ready to bail on the 250 and upgrade.

[Yoda]

Fuel Injection

If I could find away to set the 250 efi i would be all over it.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Rob, it's not directed at you. I read so many posts about how everyone thinks the 250 is the ultimate bike. I'd like to have a few hundred bikes, actually just give me the keys to the Barber Museum and I'd be happy.

I really think you missed it.

Finding the 250 to be fun and enough bike + not feeling the need for a 600-class bike does NOT equal "250 is all I want."

To be honest, I don't recall anyone actually saying things like the 250 is all they want or how it's the ultimate bike. Find such posts and I'll be glad to stand corrected.

There have, however, been a lot of posts about how the 250 does everything that person actually needs to have done. I wrote several of them myself. Heck, I took a 2600 mile trip on mine last year just to see if it was a decent traveling bike (by my standards, it definitely was). That doesn't mean it's "the ultimate," though.

I'm VERY solidly in the "250 is enough for my needs" camp given the alternatives we currently have, but I'd be quite interested in this bike, especially if it were FI.

[bdavison]

For me Id have to think about it. I seriously doubt this is true though....for one, there's no way Kawasaki would let a photo that clear of a "prototype" bike leak out. Just not gonna happen. Not saying they wont release a 400, but that is obviously some magazine editor's artist impression of what it might look like...not an actual photo.

For me to even consider upgrading it would have to have EFI, have adjustable suspension, dual front brakes, and the ergonomics would need to be alot closer to something like the ZX6R, and a rear tire in a 160+ size range. If it lacks any of the above...they can keep it.

[k-os]

If they were releasing a 400 I'd prefer it to be an I4.

[sombo]

After doing some research I have to say that even if that prototype is a fake, the other 2 are real.

The white one is a 1987 GPX400R with a 399cc DOHC I-4 making around 59hp. The red one that looks like the EX500 really is a 1994 EX400. It has a 398cc DOHC P2 making around 50hp. So it's totally possible for Kawasaki to bring it back to fill the gap between the 250 and the 650 while also bringing the price of the 250 back down to a more reasonable price.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by bdavison

For me to even consider upgrading it would have to have EFI, have adjustable suspension, dual front brakes, and the ergonomics would need to be alot closer to something like the ZX6R, and a rear tire in a 160+ size range. If it lacks any of the above...they can keep it.

Just out of curiosity, why a 160 tire and why dual disks (serious questions)?
I'm sure if it doesn't come with a 160, you can easily fit one on since people are putting 150s on the 250r. So that probably wouldn't be an issue.
And the disks, aside from looks, what's it matter? If a single works and stops the bike, then why would you need more?

Originally Posted by sombo

So it's totally possible for Kawasaki to bring it back to fill the gap between the 250 and the 650 while also bringing the price of the 250 back down to a more reasonable price.

I think it would be a much better gap filler then the 500 is (even if they redesigned the 500). A 500 is just so close to 600, and even though the power difference is night and day, a 400 sounds more in between the two.

But honestly man...lowering the price of the 250 if they release a 400? Don't be naive! Kawi will never lower the 250r price. I think if anything, it will be priced a bit more then the current 500.
250r - 4,000
500 - 5,000
650r - 7,100

Take the 500 out and replace it with a new, updated, fuel injected 400 and your looking at 5500ish for it. MAYBE 5,000 for the first year to get it selling and get the word out, then a 500 jump just like the 250r. But I'm still guessing by the time this comes out, the 250r will be 4200 and the 650 will be 7500, so I say no less then 5500 for a 400.

[CZroe]

Other than inflation and currency conversion (USD vs. Yen), I would not expect any more huge jumps in the EX250 price if there is something to sit in between. Even if they don't have anything, they stopped selling through previous year stocks with the second $500 hike back in 2008! That's when the pre-release '09 bikes and the actual '09 bikes hit and you can still find them at most dealers. If they do, they do it at the expense of leftover stock, which will need to be heavily rebated for dealers to sell when another year model arrives.

[Rayme]

The price would be very close to the 650...so I wonder why having 2 very similar bike in a line-up.

[adouglas]

Though I seriously doubt it would be a viable offering, I'd like to see a true pocket sportbike, which the Ninjette is not.

600s are called "middleweights." Why not a "lightweight?"

It wouldn't compete against anything currently on the market. It'd be a new category that would establish a parallel upgrade path.

If you clearly differentiate the 400 from the 650R it taps into a new audience. The rationale would be this:

250r - Beginner/basic commuter bike for those who want upright, "standard" ergos

400r - Sportbike ergos (which a lot of us are doing anyway via the aftermarket), performance-oriented spec similar to ZX6R but maybe a notch or two below. Compact size and light weight to differentiate it... a sportbike for those not tall enough for a supersport, or who want supersport handling and equipment but don't really want 100+hp. A step-up for 250R owners who don't want to make the big jump to a ZX6R. Power about where the 500 is now, right in between the 250R and the 650R... obtained through a higher state of tune/higher RPM. This bike could be the basis of a new spec racing class.

650r - Same mission as the 250R - it's a standard with fairings. Step-up bike for those not into supersports, first bike/commuter for those of larger stature or those who buy the "650 is a starter bike" jive.

ZX6R - Full on supersport... a clear notch above the 400R.


I think the size thing and the sportbike thing both have some potential. If you want to see an unanswered market demand, look at the aftermarket. Every sportbike out there has multiple lowering kits available for it because a lot of us who like these bikes simply don't fit on them. Bikes with standard ergos have clip-ons and rearsets available. People WANT things that the manufacturers are not producing.

I don't think it would fly because most consumers are simply not informed enough or realistic enough to understand that such a bike might be perfect for them. Every other squid on the block has a 600, so they need a 600 too.

[almost40]

Give me the I-4, adjustable suspension, and dual front rotors and Im in the market so to speak. FI would be nice but its not requried as far as im concerned.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

Just out of curiosity, why a 160 tire and why dual disks (serious questions)?
I'm sure if it doesn't come with a 160, you can easily fit one on since people are putting 150s on the 250r. So that probably wouldn't be an issue.
And the disks, aside from looks, what's it matter? If a single works and stops the bike, then why would you need more?
.

My reasons for wanting the 160+ rear tire have nothing to do with asthetics or handling or anything like that. Its because of the tire choices in the sub 150 range suck. By upping the size of the rear, it opens up all new possibilities on tire choices, especially for those that plan on taking it to the track.

As far as dual disk fronts...two fold purpose here. One is it would force them to dump the horrible mechanical speedo and use a magnetic one...which would also likely result in a digital dash instead of the mechanical guages we have now. Two...the single disk front (while more than adaquate for the 250R) would leave quite a bit to be desired on a 400cc bike unless one of two things happened.
1. They upped the caliper to a 4 piston performance brake.
2. They run dual front disks.

The whole purpose of putting a more powerful bike out there is...well..."performance", and sacrificing suspension or brakes with just a increase in HP just wont cut it. It needs to be a overall improvement, or dont bother.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by bdavison

My reasons for wanting the 160+ rear tire have nothing to do with asthetics or handling or anything like that. Its because of the tire choices in the sub 150 range suck. By upping the size of the rear, it opens up all new possibilities on tire choices, especially for those that plan on taking it to the track.

As far as dual disk fronts...two fold purpose here. One is it would force them to dump the horrible mechanical speedo and use a magnetic one...which would also likely result in a digital dash instead of the mechanical guages we have now. Two...the single disk front (while more than adaquate for the 250R) would leave quite a bit to be desired on a 400cc bike unless one of two things happened.
1. They upped the caliper to a 4 piston performance brake.
2. They run dual front disks.

The whole purpose of putting a more powerful bike out there is...well..."performance", and sacrificing suspension or brakes with just a increase in HP just wont cut it. It needs to be a overall improvement, or dont bother.

Even if you have more braking power that you don't use, I like that it spreads the same braking power over more pads and therefore more time between services.

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by bdavison

My reasons for wanting the 160+ rear tire have nothing to do with asthetics or handling or anything like that. Its because of the tire choices in the sub 150 range suck. By upping the size of the rear, it opens up all new possibilities on tire choices, especially for those that plan on taking it to the track.

As far as dual disk fronts...two fold purpose here. One is it would force them to dump the horrible mechanical speedo and use a magnetic one...which would also likely result in a digital dash instead of the mechanical guages we have now. Two...the single disk front (while more than adaquate for the 250R) would leave quite a bit to be desired on a 400cc bike unless one of two things happened.
1. They upped the caliper to a 4 piston performance brake.
2. They run dual front disks.

The whole purpose of putting a more powerful bike out there is...well..."performance", and sacrificing suspension or brakes with just a increase in HP just wont cut it. It needs to be a overall improvement, or dont bother.

Very good reasoning, and given that, I now agree 100%


I also like Andrews Idea of leaving the 250r and 650r as standard/commuter bikes, and introducing the 400 as a lightweight SS model. The bike would of course look NOTHING like the picture, but I think it would be a great idea.

[sofo]

A 250r/650r and ZX-4R/ZX-6R configuration work really well IMO and hopefully if there is any truth to these rumors, Kawasaki's market data is telling them the same thing.

I'm destined to have multiple bikes with my 250r being a slightly modified commuter / fun bike and other bikes for other things. A ZX-4R could be a good addition as a sportbike that's useable on the street and track days.

I like small bikes, tweaking bikes, options. Please do this Kawi!

[adouglas]

Here's the thing about that idea.

While stuff like this makes perfect sense to us, we are not representative of the riding public as a whole.

In one of my other lives I'm a musician and am active in the manufacturer's online forum. The community there is really into cool finishes, interesting instruments, etc. But the cool colors don't last long because out in the real world most people just buy black or sunburst. If the forum members had their say things would be very different.

It's like an ice cream parlor. Tutti Frutti may be great, but most people still want vanilla, chocolate or strawberry.

So to be honest, while a zx4 would rock, I don't think it's going to happen.

[bdavison]

There's some other things to consider here too.
If Kawasaki does make a 400R....who is it marketable to, and how will they structure the MSRP?

As far as marketability....If its tweaked as per my "wants" list. Not only will it likely convince 250R riders to "upgrade" or purchase a second ninja. But you will probably see stunters go ape shiz for it. Seriously...what stunter wouldnt want a 400cc torque monster with dual front disks, lighter frame, and a cheaper price tag than the 6R. Id fully expect to see Kane Friesan, and Jason Britton on one within days of its release.

With regards to MSRP...it could be a good thing. We'd likely see the price of the 250R return to 2008 prices instead of the rapidly inflating 2010 prices. Probably end up with the 250R somewhere in the $3,600 range, the 400R hopefully in the $4999 tag range, but probably closer to $5500 range, and so on.