down shifting vs engine braking

[dimeified]

sorry to sound newbie, but from what i know,

down shifting - droping down a gear, matching revs, letting out clutch

engine braking - droping down gear, NOT matching revs, and slowly letting out clutch so you dont lock the rear or jerk the bike too hard.

some people say engine braking is the same as the above definition of down shifting, and that letting out the clutch WITHOUT matching revs will wear it out, and it is an improper method of braking, especially if the bike doesnt have a wet clutch, which i dont think the ninjas do, right?

So, do you guys match revs when "engine braking" or not. Please don't flame me, i did a search before posting what i thought would be a repetitious topic.

[BlueRaven]

Anyone please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. I drive tractor trailer on occasion and if i recall correctly from my course 9 years ago engine braking when turned on in a rig , you can choose 2 or 4 cylinders , retards the # of cylinder chosen. In other words these cylinders do not fire and slows down the engine faster than it would normally which make the brrrrrrrrrr noise when you let go of the fuel pedal. I know i have a hard time explaining things. If anyone can make this clearer please do.

[Alex]

I don't fully agree with the OP's distinction between "Engine Braking" and "Down Shifting" definitions. Engine braking may or may not involve downshifting. All engine braking means is that the rider is applying less throttle than would be necessary to maintain a constant speed, typically no throttle at all. The friction between all of the engine's moving parts slows the engine and in turn the bike, as the rear wheel is still directly connected to the speed of the engine, even when it's not under power.

The lower the gear, the stronger the engine braking as the torque of the engine friction is multiplied by a higher ratio. I.E., if you are at 60 mph, engine braking in 4th gear will slow the bike faster than if you slow from 60 mph by engine braking in 6th gear. That's the reason why downshifting can be helpful, as in a lower gear the technique is more effective.

It seems your question is basically making a distinction between whether or not to match revs while downshifting. In a perfect world where one would try to make the downshift as smooth as possible, and limit clutch wear as much as possible, it would be appropriate to match revs until the clutch is engaged and then to once again let off the throttle completely as the bike slows. But in terms of a practical answer, it's probably not necessary much of the time. Even with the throttle completely closed, downshifting and letting the clutch back out will speed up the engine to match the rear wheel speed very quickly. Our engines are so small, light, and easy to rev, that it would be hard to do much clutch damage by intentionally slipping it on these types of downshifts. Clutches on these bikes pretty much last forever.

[HKr1]

I figure downshifting with some throttle to keep going the same speed, is down shifting.
Down shifting with no throttle, to slow down. Would be compression braking.

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Anyone please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. I drive tractor trailer on occasion and if i recall correctly from my course 9 years ago engine braking when turned on in a rig , you can choose 2 or 4 cylinders , retards the # of cylinder chosen. In other words these cylinders do not fire and slows down the engine faster than it would normally which make the brrrrrrrrrr noise when you let go of the fuel pedal. I know i have a hard time explaining things. If anyone can make this clearer please do.

You mean Jake brake?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake

[Nny]

This is just how I see it I guess:

Down shifting -letting out the clutch in the lower gear and matching or giving a quick twist of the throttle as I start to feel the clutch grab. Making it smooth as possible. It is a very quick thing though.

Engine braking - essentially the same thing just not giving any throttle after the cluth is fully out. If you decide to slow down this way, I would suggest tapping the brakes so the people behind you know your intentions. - but you may already know that.

[ASecretNinja]

Originally Posted by HKr1

I figure downshifting with some throttle to keep going the same speed, is down shifting.
Down shifting with no throttle, to slow down. Would be compression braking.

Most commonly known as engine braking though.

I do a fair amount of engine braking in both my car and on my bike. I'm generally already going pretty slow once I start down shifting, so I'm not really stressing anything. It's not like im winding the engine up to 14k each time I down shift.

[dimeified]

Originally Posted by ASecretNinja

Most commonly known as engine braking though.

I do a fair amount of engine braking in both my car and on my bike. I'm generally already going pretty slow once I start down shifting, so I'm not really stressing anything. It's not like im winding the engine up to 14k each time I down shift.

In my car i always match revs when downshifting or engine braking. For some reason on the bike it just feels much more effective to not match revs when engine braking, the transition is so much quicker than on a car.

[AnarchoMoltov]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Anyone please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. I drive tractor trailer on occasion and if i recall correctly from my course 9 years ago engine braking when turned on in a rig , you can choose 2 or 4 cylinders , retards the # of cylinder chosen. In other words these cylinders do not fire and slows down the engine faster than it would normally which make the brrrrrrrrrr noise when you let go of the fuel pedal. I know i have a hard time explaining things. If anyone can make this clearer please do.

I drove a 18 wheeler for awhile, check out the wiki link to read more about it... But as for choosing the cylinders, you have a choice between HI or LO..
The company I worked for didnt want us to use them at all, because they are so cheap, and wanted 2 save on fuel...But you definitely need them in the rigs..

[BlueRaven]

Originally Posted by HKr1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake

thanks for the link, i guess you do learn something everyday. Didn't know that engine braking could be done without the jake brake.

[DarkNinja52]

When i downshift i think im doing something wrong, when i let the clutch out the bike kinda just stops and makes noises. rpm's too high for the gear or too low? should i give it some throttle while downshifting for a smoother shift? sorry, this might not exactly be on topic, but reading this thread reminded me

[dimeified]

yikes

[kkim]

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

When i downshift i think im doing something wrong, when i let the clutch out the bike kinda just stops and makes noises.

what does the tach read when you downshift like this?

careful... you can do engine damage if you force the engine to turn higher than the designated redline by downshifting too early or by downshifting multiple gears and then letting out the clutch.

[Broom]

Darkninja, you're going to have to give a better explanation of whats going on. i'm not sure what you mean.

as for the clutch, i'm pretty sure our bikes have whats considered wet clutches. they sit in the engine oil. a ducati has a dry clutch. i don't think i'd worry about wearing it out from down shifting and easing out the clutch with or without throttle. i'd think most of your wear would come from riding the clutch too much leaving from a stop or up shifting.

[Nickds7]

I'm probably beating a dead horse here..
A down shift won't do much more damage as an up shift.. as long as it is done properly.
If i'm not mistaken up shifting that causes the engine speed to drop by 2k rpm wont do any more damage than a down shift that causes the engine speed to go up by 2k rpm.. Wear is more dependent on what rpm you are shifting at?

[Cedilla]

I blip the throttle on every downshift, on my bike or my car, I thought it was hard on the tranny to not too.

[Broom]

i think that matchign the revs or "bliping" the throttle is mainly just to keep things smooth. I don't think its going to be too hard on anything unless you're just really being abusive in general.

[stingray]

motorcycling is all about keeping your inputs and transitions smooth. blipping the throttle (a.k.a. rev-matching) really helps to ensure a smooth downshift transition. if you get that forward-momentum "lunging" while downshifting, you should try learning the throttle blip technique to smooth it out.

after locking up the rear tire once in a quick 2nd -> 1st downshift, i decided to put a lot of practice into blipping -- especially those high-RPM downshifts. i've since become quite good at it, and my motorcycle thanks me for it.

[DarkNinja52]

hmm ok, I'll let you guys know next time i go for a ride, I've only been riding for a few days and I'm not sure how to describe things sometimes. Everytime I get out there I have a million things running through my head, im taking it slow and bein safe but no matter how safe and confident I am, there is still plenty i need to learn. just dont want to damage the bikee

[stingray]

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

hmm ok, I'll let you guys know next time i go for a ride, I've only been riding for a few days and I'm not sure how to describe things sometimes. Everytime I get out there I have a million things running through my head, im taking it slow and bein safe but no matter how safe and confident I am, there is still plenty i need to learn. just dont want to damage the bikee

i remember those first days riding! throttle-blipping is a more advanced technique used to smooth things out. you should probably wait to practice it after you get comfortable with all the basics. believe me, you have plenty to learn at this stage! you certainly won't damage the bike by downshifting without rev-matching, so get out there and have fun.

[tjkamper]

Engine Braking is letting the Engine slow the vehicle down. In cars overdrive is used to limit this effect. Technically you do not have to downshift to be engine braking, but the higher the gear, the less you will slow down. If you go through all the gears and are not flying like bat out of hell toward a stop light, you can come to a nice easy stop without ever touching the brake controls.

Matching Revs when down shifting. These engines are small and they match the wheel speed really fast. I don't think there would be any problem with not matching revs. I match reves whenever I can, but is some situations it is not possible to blip the throttle, because you are also applying heavy front break.

Not matching revs can have some adverse effects. If you have a large engine that does not match wheel speed well you can find yourself in a rear wheel skid. (My International Harvester would always do this). Also this does place a lot of torque on the clutch which can cause it to wear out faster.

However like Alex said, these bikes have such a small engine that it matches the speed very quickly. I have never lost traction from not matching revs on the ninja. Also I have heard that the clutch on this bike is vertually indistructable, because the little 250 engine does not put very much torque on it.

The most prominent benefit of Matching your Revs when downshipfting, is a smoother transition form the high gear to the lower gear and for on the street and as much as most people ride, that is all they should worry about.

[DarkNinja52]

Originally Posted by stingray

i remember those first days riding! throttle-blipping is a more advanced technique used to smooth things out. you should probably wait to practice it after you get comfortable with all the basics. believe me, you have plenty to learn at this stage! you certainly won't damage the bike by downshifting without rev-matching, so get out there and have fun.

Awesome, thats good to hear. Also put a smile on my face. I can't wait to get back out there, im stuck at work for now..

But i just feel overwhelmed sometimes with the amount that I need to know, it can be frustrating but this isn't something i plan on ever giving up on. It's just discouraging to realize how much I still don't know.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by DarkNinja52

But i just feel overwhelmed sometimes with the amount that I need to know, it can be frustrating but this isn't something i plan on ever giving up on. It's just discouraging to realize how much I still don't know.

All noobs (myself included) feel this way sometimes. I've been riding for about 4 months now, and I STILL have a TON to learn after taking the MSF course and reading Proficient Motorcycling and Total Control. I don't think I'll ever know and understand my bike as well as I'd like to, but it's baby steps. Learn the most important things first, then start trying to play with the more advanced techniques like rev-matching. At this point, try to focus on the basics. Learn about traction because handling a bike safely is all about effective traction management in every instance whether perpendicular to the road or in a heavy lean, whether accelerating or braking, it's all about traction. As long as you have traction, the bike will stand up, assuming you're moving, that is.

[CC Cowboy]

I use the brakes to slow down! I use the engine to speed up or cruise. I only shift when I have to.

[DarkNinja52]

I'm afraid i'll end up doing damage to the engine or something

[akima]

Useful thread. These 3 posts seem quite reasonable to me:

Originally Posted by Alex

I don't fully agree with the OP's distinction between "Engine Braking" and "Down Shifting" definitions. Engine braking may or may not involve downshifting. All engine braking means is that the rider is applying less throttle than would be necessary to maintain a constant speed, typically no throttle at all. The friction between all of the engine's moving parts slows the engine and in turn the bike, as the rear wheel is still directly connected to the speed of the engine, even when it's not under power.

The lower the gear, the stronger the engine braking as the torque of the engine friction is multiplied by a higher ratio. I.E., if you are at 60 mph, engine braking in 4th gear will slow the bike faster than if you slow from 60 mph by engine braking in 6th gear. That's the reason why downshifting can be helpful, as in a lower gear the technique is more effective.

It seems your question is basically making a distinction between whether or not to match revs while downshifting. In a perfect world where one would try to make the downshift as smooth as possible, and limit clutch wear as much as possible, it would be appropriate to match revs until the clutch is engaged and then to once again let off the throttle completely as the bike slows. But in terms of a practical answer, it's probably not necessary much of the time. Even with the throttle completely closed, downshifting and letting the clutch back out will speed up the engine to match the rear wheel speed very quickly. Our engines are so small, light, and easy to rev, that it would be hard to do much clutch damage by intentionally slipping it on these types of downshifts. Clutches on these bikes pretty much last forever.

Originally Posted by tjkamper

Engine Braking is letting the Engine slow the vehicle down. In cars overdrive is used to limit this effect. Technically you do not have to downshift to be engine braking, but the higher the gear, the less you will slow down. If you go through all the gears and are not flying like bat out of hell toward a stop light, you can come to a nice easy stop without ever touching the brake controls.

Matching Revs when down shifting. These engines are small and they match the wheel speed really fast. I don't think there would be any problem with not matching revs. I match reves whenever I can, but is some situations it is not possible to blip the throttle, because you are also applying heavy front break.

Not matching revs can have some adverse effects. If you have a large engine that does not match wheel speed well you can find yourself in a rear wheel skid. (My International Harvester would always do this). Also this does place a lot of torque on the clutch which can cause it to wear out faster.

However like Alex said, these bikes have such a small engine that it matches the speed very quickly. I have never lost traction from not matching revs on the ninja. Also I have heard that the clutch on this bike is vertually indistructable, because the little 250 engine does not put very much torque on it.

The most prominent benefit of Matching your Revs when downshipfting, is a smoother transition form the high gear to the lower gear and for on the street and as much as most people ride, that is all they should worry about.

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I use the brakes to slow down! I use the engine to speed up or cruise. I only shift when I have to.

When I'm braking to come to a stop I tend to change down a gear almost instantly using rev matching then let the engine slow the bike. When I'm getting closer to where I want to stop I then use progressively stronger front braking to shave off most of the remaining speed over a short period of time. I'm only going ~10MPH at this point. Before coming to a stop I shift all the way down to 1st gear with the clutch fully disengaged while gently applying the rear brake to smoothly come to a complete stop.

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinion on my method. It seems to work for me. I've never lost traction, held up traffic behind me or lost balance while doing it.

[Kangxi]

Originally Posted by stingray

motorcycling is all about keeping your inputs and transitions smooth. blipping the throttle (a.k.a. rev-matching) really helps to ensure a smooth downshift transition. if you get that forward-momentum "lunging" while downshifting, you should try learning the throttle blip technique to smooth it out.

after locking up the rear tire once in a quick 2nd -> 1st downshift, i decided to put a lot of practice into blipping -- especially those high-RPM downshifts. i've since become quite good at it, and my motorcycle thanks me for it.

+1

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by akima

When I'm braking to come to a stop I tend to change down a gear almost instantly using rev matching then let the engine slow the bike. When I'm getting closer to where I want to stop I then use progressively stronger front braking to shave off most of the remaining speed over a short period of time. I'm only going ~10MPH at this point. Before coming to a stop I shift all the way down to 1st gear with the clutch fully disengaged while gently applying the rear brake to smoothly come to a complete stop.

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinion on my method. It seems to work for me. I've never lost traction, held up traffic behind me or lost balance while doing it.

This very similar to how I do it (on the street). When doing this just member that the primary force used to decelerate should be the brakes and not the engine as it will be easy to get lazy and let the engine do the work instead of your right hand and foot on the brakes.

K. Code - "Brakes are cheap, engines are expensive."

[akima]

Originally Posted by csmith12

This very similar to how I do it (on the street). When doing this just member that the primary force used to decelerate should be the brakes and not the engine as it will be easy to get lazy and let the engine do the work instead of your right hand and foot on the brakes.

K. Code - "Brakes are cheap, engines are expensive."

Sounds reasonable to me!

[lc86]

Originally Posted by akima

Useful thread. These 3 posts seam quite reasonable to me:

When I'm braking to come to a stop I tend to change down a gear almost instantly using rev matching then let the engine slow the bike. When I'm getting closer to where I want to stop I then use progressively stronger front braking to shave off most of the remaining speed over a short period of time. I'm only going ~10MPH at this point. Before coming to a stop I shift all the way down to 1st gear with the clutch fully disengaged while gently applying the rear brake to smoothly come to a complete stop.

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinion on my method. It seems to work for me. I've never lost traction, held up traffic behind me or lost balance while doing it.

I pretty much do the same thing, but I never use the clutch except for starting in 1st and up/downshifting from 1st or 2nd. When I started I was always using the clutch to downshift and had the same problems as the OP, then I realized how easy it is to downshift by giving the throttle a quick blip and downshifting without the clutch, its always smooth and its become so natural I can't imagine using the clutch (Note: I use a mineral based semi-synthetic oil because I've found it gives me the smoothest shifts). Just remember if you do this that the response is different from bike to bike.

[Whiskey]

It's a twin, so the main thing I use to control speed (up or down) is the throttle.

Part of what I was taught during advanced training was to be in the right gear so that you only need the brakes for actually stopping or emergency use (and why did you get into a situation that needed emergency braking...), slowing down should be by throttle control & being in the correct gear. Braking should be smooth.

I don't know if there's a difference in the power band on the carbed vs FI bikes, but 6k rpm is the minimum you should be at on a FI bike (for anything other than stop-go traffic) to allow engine braking.

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Alex

In a perfect world where one would try to make the downshift as smooth as possible, and limit clutch wear as much as possible, it would be appropriate to match revs until the clutch is engaged and then to once again let off the throttle completely as the bike slows.

To match the revs do you leave the throttle open, let the clutch out, and then let off it completely? Or do you just blip it to get the revs up and then let out the clutch quickly while the revs are up there?

Originally Posted by Alex

I But in terms of a practical answer, it's probably not necessary much of the time. Even with the throttle completely closed, downshifting and letting the clutch back

When you downshift and let the clutch out with the throttle closed, it causes the bike to 'nosedive' as it slows right? Or is that a result of downshifting at too high a speed or something?

[Alex]

You control the throttle when the clutch is pulled in to have the engine at the speed you want it to be when engaging the next gear, whether higher or lower. If you can do this smoothly, you're doing it right. If not, you're not. Letting it off completely at any time is not the optimal answer for smoothness.

[akima]

Originally Posted by akshay11

When you downshift and let the clutch out with the throttle closed, it causes the bike to 'nosedive' as it slows right? Or is that a result of downshifting at too high a speed or something?

The answer to your question is: trade your 6fiddy ninja for a 2fiddy ninja and go on a motorcycle safety/handling course. In the mean time, you probably shouldn't ride on the street with your limited level of knowledge... at least not without an experienced instructor supervising you.

If you have the throttle completely closed (so the engine is idling) at a very low rpm, then you engage the clutch (let go of the clutch lever) while the wheels are moving quickly then there will be a large mismatch between the engine speed and the wheel speed. This means that when the clutch plates bite the engine will suddenly empose a large amount of resistance against the movement of the rear wheel. This will cause the motorcycle to rapidly slow down. Under the right conditions, doing what I just described will cause the rear wheel to loose traction: at which point you could have an accident.

Any "nose dive forward" feeling you get isn't so much nose diving (because the the front wheel isn't the wheel slowing down). Instead it will simply be the feeling of your body moving forward (under inertia) as the bike rapidly decelerates.

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by akima

The answer to your question is: trade your 6fiddy ninja for a 2fiddy ninja and go on a motorcycle safety/handling course. In the mean time, you probably shouldn't ride on the street with your limited level of knowledge... at least not without an experienced instructor supervising you.

If you have the throttle completely closed (so the engine is idling) at a very low rpm, then you engage the clutch (let go of the clutch lever) while the wheels are moving quickly then there will be a large mismatch between the engine speed and the wheel speed. This means that when the clutch plates bite the engine will suddenly empose a large amount of resistance against the movement of the rear wheel. This will cause the motorcycle to rapidly slow down. Under the right condition, doing what I just described will cause the rear wheel to skid. Any "nose dive forward" feeling you get isn't so much nose diving (because the the front wheel isn't the wheel slowing down). Instead it will simply be the feeling of your body moving forward (under inertia) as the bike rapidly decelerates.

I'm just trying to understand how the concept of engine braking actually works, I'm not going out in traffic testing it. That's why for any stops I've been making I've just simply been coasting as it's easy to do, especially for a new rider. I've been practicing upshifting as well and I'm not so worried about it now because its becoming one fluid motion that takes like half a second compared to before when it would take longer, and cause lurching. And yeah I already signed up for the MSF course ages ago just waiting for it to come around. And also I haven't been going out on any main roads alone.. have been going with someone behind me to watch just in case.

[akima]

Originally Posted by akshay11

I'm just trying to understand how the concept of engine braking actually works, I'm not going out in traffic testing it. That's why for any stops I've been making I've just simply been coasting as it's easy to do, especially for a new rider. I've been practicing upshifting as well and I'm not so worried about it now because its becoming one fluid motion that takes like half a second compared to before when it would take longer, and cause lurching. And yeah I already signed up for the MSF course ages ago just waiting for it to come around. And also I haven't been going out on any main roads alone.. have been going with someone behind me to watch just in case.

Hmm, ok. I'm more reassured now Don't get tempted onto those main roads. Glad to here you've got the MSF lined up.

I'm trying to find a youtube video which explains how the clutch works. Once you completely understand that shifting and using the clutch and throttle should make much more sense.

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by akima

Hmm, ok. I'm more reassured now Don't get tempted onto those main roads. Glad to here you've got the MSF lined up.

Lol. Yeah that's the first thing I did before even going to any dealers. And honestly I can see why there are alot of people who do say the 650 is a good starter bike. It may not be as good as a 250 for a new rider, but it's not like an incredibly overpowered machine.. I'll admit I was intimidated as soon as it was delivered and I found it challenging to just be able to get the bike going down the driveway without stalling.. combined with the size/weight.. but that only lasted about 20 mins. I've only got 3 days/50miles experience but I think I've accomplished quite a bit during that time.. especially considering I haven't had anyone physically show me how. Still a bit scary going around a turn.. even the wide ones lol .

[akima]

Originally Posted by akshay11

Lol. Yeah that's the first thing I did before even going to any dealers. And honestly I can see why there are alot of people who do say the 650 is a good starter bike. It may not be as good as a 250 for a new rider, but it's not like an incredibly overpowered machine.. I'll admit I was intimidated as soon as it was delivered and I found it challenging to just be able to get the bike going down the driveway without stalling.. combined with the size/weight.. but that only lasted about 20 mins. I've only got 3 days/50miles experience but I think I've accomplished quite a bit during that time.. especially considering I haven't had anyone physically show me how. Still a bit scary going around a turn.. even the wide ones lol .

Personally I think that it's ok to start on a ninja 650, but it's better to start on a ninja 250. I've never ridden anything above a 500-standard bike though so my understanding of the additional dangers of bigger engine sports bikes is purely based on what I've read from other riders.

I'm sure you'll be a million times more comfortable on your ninja after a couple months of riding post-MSF. Even then, I hope you fully respect just how much more power you can create with small wrist movements compared to that of a 250 (more than double the HP of the ninjette).

I don't think the size/weight will be an issue at all so long as you can comfortably plant your feet on the ground when sitting on it. When the bike is moving fast than ~5 mph it wants to stay upright and balance barely comes into it in my experience. I find that bike control is more about what I do with my body on the bike. Like: I keep my arms really relaxed and my weight off the bars. I try and keep my spine straight all the way up to the top of my neck at all times and I looks where I want to go.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by akshay11

To match the revs do you leave the throttle open, let the clutch out, and then let off it completely? Or do you just blip it to get the revs up and then let out the clutch quickly while the revs are up there?



When you downshift and let the clutch out with the throttle closed, it causes the bike to 'nosedive' as it slows right? Or is that a result of downshifting at too high a speed or something?

You'll have to find the sweet spot for downshifting, but blip the throttle so as you drop a gear you increase the revs to keep your speed even, don't just dump the clutch (it's asking to drop the bike) let it out smoothly then roll off the throttle to bring the speed down under control.

If you close the throttle & dump the clutch its like standing on the rear brake with all your weight, the back wheel wants to turn but cant so it'll slide. if you roll off the throttle in a controlled manner you can scrub speed without having to drop a gear at the same time.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

If you close the throttle & dump the clutch its like standing on the rear brake with all your weight, the back wheel wants to turn but cant so it'll slide.

Good explanation! Less long winded than mine

[akshay11]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

You'll have to find the sweet spot for downshifting, but blip the throttle so as you drop a gear you increase the revs to keep your speed even, don't just dump the clutch (it's asking to drop the bike) let it out smoothly then roll off the throttle to bring the speed down under control.

If you close the throttle & dump the clutch its like standing on the rear brake with all your weight, the back wheel wants to turn but cant so it'll slide. if you roll off the throttle in a controlled manner you can scrub speed without having to drop a gear at the same time.

When do.you blip it though? Same time as your clicking the shifter down? While your letting the clutch out after having shifted? And after you blip it do you fully close the throttle? You say roll off the throttle after letting out the clutch..that means you rolled back on it while you were letting out the clutch right? Or did you leave it partially open while smoothly letting out the clutch?