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Old September 24th, 2019, 03:25 AM   #1
JmcEx2fifty
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...why not.... cheaper than rocker arms....

Um. Been hunting for a good deal on rocker arms for my 07 250 because the price of them is ridiculous but kinda just ended up with a donor Ex500... in progress. Will add pictures and update. Eventually. Can I keep 250 carbs and do maybe there's some chance the Jets out of the 500 can be installed on the 250 set?... experiment




...

#!$* it... ex500... into ex250f
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Old September 24th, 2019, 05:45 AM   #2
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Can’t use 250 carbs because:

- venturi needs to flow twice as much air
- jets have to deliver twice as much petrol
- spacing is wider on 500 engine


With spacers and flat bar-stock, you don’t have to cut & weld 250 frame...
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Old September 26th, 2019, 10:09 PM   #3
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Ok. Sir thank you
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Old October 25th, 2019, 09:13 AM   #4
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500 pregen. Mocking up motor position before the welding starts
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Old October 25th, 2019, 06:06 PM   #5
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I believe I still have a complete set of rocker arms out of my '99 that I kept for all this time since I sold the bike. What's your idea of a "good deal"? you know... just in case the 500 motor thing is a bust.
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Old October 26th, 2019, 09:40 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
500 pregen. Mocking up motor position before the welding starts

Coming along nicely! Make sure you quadruple-check and get that sprocket in exact location as original. Left-right, up-down, and laterally as well.
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Old October 27th, 2019, 07:02 PM   #7
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Fyi the Ltd 440 carbs and pre-gen electronics work on the 500. I’ve got two early engines sitting in my garage in case my 250 engine dies
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Old October 28th, 2019, 05:03 PM   #8
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Fyi the Ltd 440 carbs and pre-gen electronics work on the 500. Iíve got two early engines sitting in my garage in case my 250 engine dies
FYI, there are two generations of EX500 engines. They have different flywheels and igniters. The Gen1 flywheels have magnets that are known to grenade, and there were some transmission issues that were fixed in the Gen2.
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Old October 29th, 2019, 06:56 AM   #9
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Lmao I just saw your note at the bottom!

They were $100 for both engines, one with a fresh rebuild intended for arace bike. My 250 struggles with my sidecar sometimes and I might want more power.

Anyway, just throwing out that the ltd440 carbs work on the 500, might be a cheaper option.
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Old January 22nd, 2020, 09:39 AM   #10
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Return to the battle

Hey guys it's been awhile I had broken phone and a bunch of other stupid **** going on to where I made a lot of progress on the bike but I didn't document very much of it so start where I'm at I guess
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Old January 22nd, 2020, 09:42 AM   #11
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I'm actually about to pull the motor again to make some adjustments to my rear motor mount I've had it running everything sounds great. Great throttle response that sounds ****ing amazing pardon my French. Maybe I'll make an attempt to get these would be carburetor risers fog approved. Haha. Somehow between those and the way I chose to use undersized air filters in order to kind of battle the constant velocity carburetors I think I lucked out. Still running a little bit rich. More updates soon
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Old January 22nd, 2020, 04:58 PM   #12
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Great progress.
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Old January 24th, 2020, 03:35 PM   #13
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I was excited to get off work this morning and work on it. By the time I made it home it was a damn blizzard. My current work area has no roof or walls.... she stays under the cover for another day... :'(
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Old January 25th, 2020, 03:10 AM   #14
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All right this is for everybody to see the actual benefit of me swapping a 500R into my EX250. More than double hp...
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 12:51 PM   #15
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Okay not a lot of time to explain so I'm just going to post pictures that I have available I have the motor in and completely mounted next thing I'm working on is getting my radiator mounted and deciding where I'm going to mount my coils and I also have to start working on my fuel mixture because even at 1.75 turns out I am still rich as hell to the point where I think the damn thing is drowning when I get on it.
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 04:41 PM   #16
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Can somebody tell me how to make my tag read correctly I'm using the cluster from my 250 on the 500 and it is not reading correctly
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Old February 3rd, 2020, 10:21 PM   #17
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Isn't Northern Ninja doing a video on Ninja 250 with 500R swap too? He seems to know what he's doing. Check out his videos if you haven't already.https://youtu.be/AWEwtxsrjBA
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Old February 4th, 2020, 02:03 AM   #18
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Thanks @justanotherone1 I was just in touch with him about it, I'll print out the wiring diagrams and make a quick video tomorrow talking about the differences in the systems and how to wire it correctly if I get time. Should be uploaded tomorrow night or wednesday.
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Old February 5th, 2020, 12:33 AM   #19
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Not sure if you've resolved this or not yet but for further clarification or anyone looking to do this in the future, here's a little video I made explaining it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf0U...ature=youtu.be
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Old February 9th, 2020, 05:36 PM   #20
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Tach is done. Working on fuel issue now. Feels like I'm running the Bowls empty.
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Old February 9th, 2020, 07:34 PM   #21
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Measure actual vacuum going to petcock. Use rubber-T at petcock to tap into vacuum line going to petcock. This will discover leaks or cracks in line or issues with carbs supplying sufficient vacuum.
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Old February 12th, 2020, 10:57 PM   #22
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What should the vacuum be at
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Old February 27th, 2020, 12:40 PM   #23
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this was just random and purely for academic purposes and I think it'll be funny as hell not to mention I seem to have extraordinary luck doing random things like this sometimes. If it works I'll explain further. for those of you that already have a pretty good idea what I'm going to try cross your fingers. Lol
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Old February 27th, 2020, 02:12 PM   #24
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yeah, I used to make my own needles on mini-lathe.
Which wideband are you using to gather AFR data?
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Old February 27th, 2020, 06:06 PM   #25
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Discovered the need for exhaust header gaskets. .
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Old February 27th, 2020, 08:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JmcEx2fifty View Post
What should the vacuum be at
Depends upon the petcock. Typically they flow between 5-10inHg. But Iíve seen failing ones or ones with leaking diaphragms take 15-20inHG. And some doesnít flow all no matter how much you apply.

Also good test is looking at gauge to see if diaphragm holds set vacuum level. That is, it doesnít drop and you donít have to keep on pumping to keep petrol flowing.
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Old February 27th, 2020, 08:47 PM   #27
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Discovered the need for exhaust header gaskets. .
One trick is to flip them around.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 02:15 AM   #28
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yeah, I used to make my own needles on mini-lathe.
Which wideband are you using to gather AFR data?
He's not using a wideband. To my knowledge he's yet to even pull his plugs and check colour.

@JmcEx2fifty You're running a 500 engine on pods and an open exhaust. If you're going to tune by throwing random parts at it instead of actual data, just try shims under the needle like people normally do it'll probably make a big difference and can by fine tuned way easier. Different needles may help but properly adjusting main jet size and needle height is going to make a big difference for basically no money.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 02:15 PM   #29
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Hey northern.
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Old February 28th, 2020, 03:32 PM   #30
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Did you chop throttle after 5-secs WOT with new plugs?
Those look quite rich. Could remove some fuel, -15-20%
You're leaving at least 5% hp on table.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 04:31 AM   #31
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@DannoXYZ I'm not sure if it's been talked about in this thread but i'll post a quote from our PMs to add some context.

"Sitting still in neutral little rev just fine all the way up butt in gear feels like I'm running out of fuel when I get on it if I accelerate very slowly it'll keep up for the most part but then it'll start to cut out as soon as it gets close to the power band."

He's currently still chasing that issue so optimizing power isn't even on the table at this point. I asked him to go WOT and let it bog for a bit then kill it and post the pictures. I had suggested that it was potentially lean in the midrange since he's running pods and a free flowing exhaust, causing it not to rev properly. but those plugs definitely aren't lean, and to me personally it doesn't look like they're rich enough to cause the engine to not rev. I'd expect to see more fouling and even being wet (depending on the time before the picture). But i'm also new to the 500 engine, do you have any ideas or advice?
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Old February 29th, 2020, 11:58 AM   #32
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I suspect his carbs aren't factory fresh clean. Symptoms he's having is exactly same as many "before" conditions found in searches for "ducatiman clean carbs". Yes, there may be some lean spots. But cause is NOT improper jetting, and solution is NOT to dump more petrol in, but to get carbs restored back to factory fresh condition.

Very common to have fuel-circuits between jets and carb venturi be clogged. No amount of jet-cleaning and poking will fix that. It's like garden-hose sprayer. Sure you can clean and ultrasonic your sprayer all you want, but what about those 25 golf balls stuck in 20ft of hose?

I bought set of freshly restored EX500 carbs from ducatiman specifically because of this concern. It has all new parts (including all rubber seals). No amount of cleaning will fix worn rubber O-rings. As result, my 500 started right up with no problems. Screams through RPMs range like wild banshee. Factory mixture is on rich side already, so no need add any extra.

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Old February 29th, 2020, 12:57 PM   #33
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Or... it's still very possible he's got restricted petcock. Not flowing enough fuel from gimpy leaky vacuum diaphragm. Or leaky vacuum hose between carb & diaphragm. Something instrumented testing would deny or confirm. Such as measuring actual vacuum delivered by carbs to petcock. And measuring how much fuel flows in 30-seconds into measuring cup. Then we can at least rule out petcock as contributing to issue.

NASA doesn't send things into space on gut hunches. They actually weigh their spacecraft and know exactly how much mass it has. And they actually measure thrust-output of their rocket-engines. With those two numbers, it's very easy to know if the thing's gonna take off or fall over on launch-pad. But without numbers... endless guessing game.
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Old February 29th, 2020, 02:19 PM   #34
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Did you chop throttle after 5-secs WOT with new plugs?
Those look quite rich. Could remove some fuel, -15-20%
You're leaving at least 5% hp on table.
I can only lean it out with the pilot screw correct?
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Old February 29th, 2020, 02:31 PM   #35
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Not building a spaceship just a toy. Petcock Fuel flow from the 250 vs 500r. Think theirs a difference?
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Old February 29th, 2020, 02:35 PM   #36
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And I tuned the Pilot Jets as per your suggestion of richening until the RPM stopped raising repeated the process with both sides I'm at turns out 2 and 2/3 on my cylinder 2 and 2 and 3/4 on cylinder one. Between 5000 and 6000 RPM is where I cut out and Falls flat on its face. If I take the RPMs up gradually it'll go a little past it but then same result
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Old February 29th, 2020, 02:37 PM   #37
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I also am not running run-of-the-mill pod filters there is a possibility I'm not pulling enough air the ones I chose I did due to the fact that the stock air box actual hole for intake who was fairly small. But I did not anticipate running the two to one exhaust to affect it as much as I think it is. Anybody have Ducati man's info I would just hate to get the carbs done to find out it's something else stupid
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Old February 29th, 2020, 03:31 PM   #38
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First verify that your carbs are bone stock with stock needles, stock jets (all of them) and stock mixture screws. A lot of times, we end up with previous owner's attempt at "tuning". Reverting back to bone-stock often resolves all issues.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=340561 or skip to solution here:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...84#post1258484

I'm looking for Maverick9611's post where FactoryPro sending pre-gen needles in new-gen jet kit caused over a year of headaches and troubleshooting mid-range stumble. Although if your biKe refuses to rev above mid-range, it's more likely fuel-flow or clogged carb issue. Here they are, resolution in last link:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...17#post1219417
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=324987
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...61#post1232661

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Old February 29th, 2020, 08:13 PM   #39
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If you revert carbs to all stock parts and still have issues, then you need more thorough cleaning.

Examples of ducatiman's work; contact him through PM.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239678
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226815
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Old March 1st, 2020, 02:02 PM   #40
JmcEx2fifty
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Name: Joe
Location: Provo
Join Date: Sep 2019

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250R + 2001 Ninja 500R = 666 PreGen500BMF

Posts: 61
I've never changed any of the parts in the carbs and the fact that the pilot screws we're exposed does that mean that someone else had gotten into it before? Or are they exposed stock. And can somebody give me the stator output values please
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