Let's Talk Handguns

[Jono]

So I'm looking to purchase my first handgun and there are sooooo many options out there. This weekend I went to the range and shot a few different guns. Here is a list of the guns that I have shot. S&W M&P Shield 9mm and .40, S&W M&P Compact .40, Springfield XD .40 Service and Compact Service, Sig Sauer SP2022 .40, and Sig Sauer P229 9mm. I think that's about it.

Ideally, I would like to spend less than $600 and I am leaning towards a 9mm. I am still very new to shooting but I seemed to be more accurate with the 9mm's. Yeah the .40 are fun to shoot as well cause they pack more of a punch but I'd rather have a 9mm cause I feel more confident with them.

I really like how the Sig P229 shot but it's way out of my price range and a little too big to carry. I will be getting my handgun carry permit eventually so that is why I want a more compact gun.

Right now I am leaning towards the S&W M&P 9mm Compact. The Shield is a bit small in my hands but it would be great to carry because it is so thin. And the Shield is quite a bit cheaper than the Compact, but you get less rounds than the Compact.

This is a hard decision to make. Any hints or tips on deciding which to get?

Do you have a handgun that you carry? What kind? How do you like it?

[monjorrow]

Get a Glock 19 and be done with it.

Seriously though, you can't go wrong with any of the guns you listed. The most important thing to consider when choosing a carry gun is to choose one that you shoot well.

Most of my handguns are 9mm. With modern day hollowpoint ammo, the difference in lethality between 9mm/.40S&W/.45ACP is negligible IMO. I can carry 16+1, and 17rd in my spare mag with my G19. And I like Glocks because they are simple and they just flat out work. I carry it all day every day and can't even feel it. You do have to dress around your gun, but you should do that no matter what you carry.

But like I said, just find a gun you shoot well and you'll be set.

[monjorrow]

Watch this: http://youtu.be/nzmkGgQLCMA

And I just noticed you're in Tn. The TN carry permit class is a joke(easy). But it will take your background check a little while to go through so I would suggest doing it ASAP.

[snot]

I like the shield, XDM, karh, and ruger. The shield and XDM are very smooth, the karh is a good ccw. I shot the .40 and 9mm.

I do like revolvers too.

We have a gun shop/range that will let you borrow any gun to try on the range, see if any of your shops will let you do this. It's a great way to test them out.

Something to keep in mind, the price of ammo. See what is cheaper and available in your area for 9 and .40, then decide on the gun. Up here 9 is now in abundance but is in high demand. The .40 is always on the shelf.

Ruger makes a nice 9 too, the LC has the pinky extension.

[k-os]

I've got a Springfield XDM 3.8" Compact 9mm that I originally bought hoping to be able to carry it, but it's just too thick for my build. My dad has an M&P Shield that I've shot and the thinness of it would definitely lend it well to be carried. If your main use will be carrying, see if a local gun shop will let you see how well it would fit on your body with a holster.

[Jono]

@monjorrow Haha. Not sure about Glocks. I haven't shot one but I have held a few. I'm not a big fan of the feel. But I guess I need to shoot one before I make up my mind. I also don't like that there isn't a safety. I know that shouldn't be a deciding factor but I'd just like to have one. I will probably be taking the class in either March or April.

@snot Yeah the range that I went to this weekend lets you swap out guns that they have. So you pay $10 for a rental and you can swap guns at any time. Unfortunately they don't have THAT many 9mm to shoot.

Good idea on the ammo. I will definitely look into the prices and availability of ammo around here.


@k-os What is your build? I'm tall and skinny so I feel like the Shield would be a great choice for me because it is so slim.

I'll look into finding a gun shop that will let me try it on. Haha. I'm not really sure how often I will carry. I feel like if I get a gun that is just too large/uncomfortable to carry I won't. So I need something that is still big enough that it is fun to shoot at the range but small enough to conceal. I know for sure that I don't want anything smaller than something the size of a Shield.

[k-os]

Originally Posted by Jono

@k-os What is your build? I'm tall and skinny so I feel like the Shield would be a great choice for me because it is so slim.

I'll look into finding a gun shop that will let me try it on. Haha. I'm not really sure how often I will carry. I feel like if I get a gun that is just too large/uncomfortable to carry I won't. So I need something that is still big enough that it is fun to shoot at the range but small enough to conceal. I know for sure that I don't want anything smaller than something the size of a Shield.

I'm 5' 11" and around 160lb.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by k-os

I'm 5' 11" and around 160lb.

We are about the same build except I have 2 inches on you. So this is helpful.

[JohnnyBravo]

I mostly buy glocks for semi auto... Love the feel and they are hard to beat!
I'm more of a revolver guy though.
If its less than a .40 I don't have time for it... Yes personal preference
I've shot a lot of sigs, good guns indeed (I still buy Glocks)

[monjorrow]

Originally Posted by Jono

@monjorrow Haha. Not sure about Glocks. I haven't shot one but I have held a few. I'm not a big fan of the feel. But I guess I need to shoot one before I make up my mind. I also don't like that there isn't a safety. I know that shouldn't be a deciding factor but I'd just like to have one. I will probably be taking the class in either March or April.

I carried a shield for a while, they are great guns. But I wanted something with more capacity and I wasn't too fond of the S&W triggers. And I am just the opposite as you, none of my carry guns have safeties nor do I want them. I don't want to take a chance of forgetting to take the safety off in a stressful situation.
Take a look at the Beretta Nano. I bought one for my girlfriend and she and I both love it. It is a little bit more comfortable to carry than my 19, but I still prefer to have the extra rounds and more controllable gun. But she is like you in that she would not carry that large of a gun every day, and I figured a small gun is better than no gun so thats where the nano came in.

And just because I am bored I took some pictures for you. The first pic is me wearing my G19 in a hybrid holster, and the second is the nano in a blackhawk nylon both IWB. My shirt is form fitting, and you still can't see either(both are positioned at 5 o'clock). Just something to think about...
Glock

Nano

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by snot

I do like revolvers too.

S&W 357 mag is my fav. Great pistol with an old school flavor.

[snot]

Originally Posted by csmith12

S&W 357 mag is my fav. Great pistol with an old school flavor.

That's a mean gun, I shot a snub nose and it tore up my hand (rubber grips). I like the .38 special, 5 rounds, and it is small.

[Jono]

@monjorrow Thanks for the info and pics. This helps.

[subxero]

what monjorrow said

get something you like to shoot, and can shoot well.

No sense in getting a tiny gun that doesn't feel right just because it is easy to conceal.

Lots of guns out there, a lot with similar size, shape and ergo's they all serve a purpose, figure out what matters to you and shoot any gun that fills the shoes and pick the one you feel most comfortable with

one of the biggest considerations IMO is single or double action in a polymer gun. Figure that out and it might narrow your search down.

I have a xD .45 with a tac light on it, and a CZ75B 9mm, I shoot the cz a little more accurately but the springfield is my go to

on side note, i don't carry, open or concealed, i have never felt the need

[NDspd]

Can't go wrong with many that you listed...I am biased a little with Glock, since I'm currently wearing a 9mm G26 sub-compact on my hip right now.

It's good to conceal carry with, 9mm ammo is a lot more economical and it still packs a decent punch when needed.

[EsrTek]

I recently picked up a SCCY CPX-2 for >$300 w/ ammo and tax.
Not bad lil carry gun, 11+1 mag cap (even tho advertised as 10+1).
Easliy fits front/rear pockets w/o snags if you dont have an IWB holster.

I chose this for size/mag cap/price plus I really wanted to have something I'm not afraid of working on.
So far I got trigger pull down to about 5.5lbs SAO.

Less reason to get a CCL in TN Since 7-1-2014 you can carry loaded pistol in your car or bike (in a tank/rear bag) as part of extension of 'Castle Doctrine'. Just unload ammo when transferring between vehicle and home. *Suggested to carry it in box it came in to transfer by THP and County Sheriff*
That said, I applied for my CCL at beginning of month and haven't heard anything at all yet.

Edit: Get snap caps from ebay/amazon and use that to practice trigger pulls and get that muscle memory down, so you don't need to think about it if/when time comes.

[ninjamunky85]

Check out the Beretta PX4, that's what I have in the compact version. Really easy to shoot and accurate gun. The Springfield XDM is also a good choice. My cousin has one and he really likes it, I like the Beretta a little better though.

[jkv45]

As others noted - best to try out as many as possible before buying. I personally like the XDs, as they feel more like a familiar 1911 than the others. I've shot most of the others, including Glocks, but never cared for them - or 9mm.

.40 is a good compromise, but I'm a .45 (XD) or .357 Mag (Ruger SP101 3") fan myself.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by snot

That's a mean gun, I shot a snub nose and it tore up my hand (rubber grips). I like the .38 special, 5 rounds, and it is small.

I love me a good 38 too.

[Jono]

Thanks for all the info/tips/advice! Sounds like I'll be taking another trip to the range to try out some more guns before I make a decision.

[ForceofWill]

I take it you're going to conceal? I carried a Para Big Hawg for about a year and my Sig 220 elite for 5 but I open carry.

Next gun I get to conceal is gonna be an Xd mod.2. They are out in 9mm right now, check them out.

[liberpolly]

Love my .357 mag snubnose. And, it takes 38 special ammo, which makes range shooting cheaper and easier.

[cadd]

I personally enjoy the G19 gen4. So simple. But the choices you narrowed down are all great firearms.

For holsters, Raven Concealment make awesome holsters.

To be honest, I haven't been to the range for almost a year now. Ammo shortage was crazy back then. I didn't want to deplete my stock.

How's the ammo situation nowadays?

Is 22LR still hard to get?

[monjorrow]

Originally Posted by cadd

How's the ammo situation nowadays?

Is 22LR still hard to get?

9mm is back to being plentiful and cheap. I paid $10/50rds of steel case wolf and $12/50rds of blazer brass and american eagle just this weekend. .22 can still be found, but the prices havent came back down. You're gonna pay $40+ per brick, and most shops are selling the small 50rd boxes for $5.00 each which is ridiculous.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Jono

I also don't like that there isn't a safety. I know that shouldn't be a deciding factor but I'd just like to have one. I will probably be taking the class in either March or April....



I'm not really sure how often I will carry. I feel like if I get a gun that is just too large/uncomfortable to carry I won't. So I need something that is still big enough that it is fun to shoot at the range but small enough to conceal. I know for sure that I don't want anything smaller than something the size of a Shield.

As with many things related to firearms, having a manual safety is a highly divisive topic. Glocks DO have multiple safeties, just not MANUAL safeties. Put your finger on the trigger and it goes bang. So... keep your finger off the trigger, m'kay?

My $0.02 is that if you train yourself to use a manual safety it is not a drawback. Personally I prefer a manual safety on a carry gun, but own guns that don't have one.

Your observation about carry comfort is a very important point. If you intend to carry a gun and it's too uncomfortable to actually wear, then what's the point? It becomes a range toy or a bedside stand gun. So if you want to carry, buy a gun that you like to carry. If you want a toy, buy a toy. There's no harm in having more than one gun....

I have a full-sized M&P for fun, a Shield (with thumb safety) for IWB carry, a pocket-sized Kahr for when I can't carry in my waistband, and a couple of 1911s because they're freakin' gorgeous and a pleasure to shoot. I am a fan of the M&Ps and recommend them highly. I used to have a 9c but traded it in... see below.

Re capacity, Shield vs. 9c: The 9c is a double-stack with a 12-round mag, so with the Shield you give up four or five rounds depending on which mag you carry. The 9c is almost exactly the same size as the Shield but fatter. You'll get endless "oh, look, I'm a skinny guy and I carry a big fat double-stack pistol no problem" input. It's like those who ride bikes with high seats telling short people it's not an issue. If you find it uncomfortable, it IS an issue for you.

As it happens I traded in my M&P9c on a Shield about a week ago, for this very reason. The thinness makes a HUGE difference. I found the 9c too bulky, so I didn't carry it. See the above... why is this carry gun not being carried? POINTLESS!! Get some experience before you decide the grip is too thin. What matters is how you shoot with it.

Re the M&P triggers: They do smooth out with use, and they've improved over the years. You can also get a drop-in trigger kit from Apex Tactical that makes the trigger REALLY nice.

Speaking of triggers, that's something else to consider when thinking about a carry gun vs. a range gun. I have never found myself in a life-threatening situation and pray that I never do. But I do know this: When the adrenaline starts pumping your gross motor skills go out the window. You won't even feel the weight of the trigger (words of my tactical instructor, not me). That means a trigger that's too light is probably not a good idea in a carry gun. It is a very good idea in a range gun, on the other hand.

[adouglas]

BTW... one thing you might try is simulating the feel of a pistol in your waistband. Try walking around, sitting, driving a car, etc. with a block of wood the exact same thickness and width (length really doesn't matter) as the pistol you're considering stuck in your waistband, plus a bit to account for the holster. You might find that it's not as comfortable as you imagine.

Be aware that you will need a stout (i.e. gun) belt to support the weight.

Carrying IWB is DEFINITELY a compromise, no question.

[cadd]

Gun belt: I don't carry. My state will not issue CCW permits. But I did get a gun belt for giggles. Take a good like at "Original SOE". Great belts.

[cbinker]

I started with a Glock G27(.40) then switched to a Luger LC9. I like the LC9 much more for concealing and cheaper to shoot. The G27, though sub-compact was too big and bulky. Now with the LC9, i barely notice i have it on me.

[adouglas]

Re carry.... pardon the derail, but it's worth talking about.

Just like ATGATT, the right attitude is really important.

My $0.02: A gun is like your helmet. You don't ride a bike planning to whack your head on the pavement, right? You should not go into any situation with the thought that you're going to use it for its protective purpose. No... you ride with the attitude of avoiding the crash in the first place. Pulling your gun is the very last thing you should consider doing.

Priority 1 is to get out alive, not charge in to save the day. Aside from the enormous and truly life-changing pile of legal trouble in which you will find yourself, your job is not to be a hero and shoot the bad guy. Your job is to survive the encounter. Chances are that means running away, terribly fast. You are not Chuck Norris. You are not John McClane.

Youtube is full of videos of CCW holders shooting bad guys. Yay. Great. But go do some homework... pick any high-profile self-defense shooting case, and look up what happened to the CCW holder afterwards. Some of what goes down will really make you think twice about pulling a gun on someone.

How about crushing legal bills for starters and civil proceedings that drag on for years? Whether you're right or wrong doesn't matter if you wind up losing your job, your home... not to mention the personal toll. Take a look at what has happened to George Zimmerman's personal life, just as an example. Remember, this guy got acquitted. You think he just walked away? Think again.

Here's the point. If it truly is life-or-death, then there is no choice. Shoot. Your job, your home, the legal trouble are not worth more than your life. But ask yourself this when you look at those "hero" CCW shooting videos. Was it truly life-or-death?

Do you think you could make that call in heat of the moment? Or would it be smarter to escape-evade and live to see another sunrise that way?

Are you prepared for the aftermath? This is not a trivial question. If you carry, you're doing so because you have decided that you're okay with killing another human being... and all that entails.

This guy may not be the world's greatest orator, but he makes a very good point about getting the hell out of Dodge, and also about choice of carry weapon.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Re carry.... pardon the derail, but it's worth talking about.

Just like ATGATT, the right attitude is really important.

My $0.02: A gun is like your helmet. You don't ride a bike planning to whack your head on the pavement, right? You should not go into any situation with the thought that you're going to use it for its protective purpose. No... you ride with the attitude of avoiding the crash in the first place. Pulling your gun is the very last thing you should consider doing.

Priority 1 is to get out alive, not charge in to save the day. Aside from the enormous and truly life-changing pile of legal trouble in which you will find yourself, your job is not to be a hero and shoot the bad guy. Your job is to survive the encounter. Chances are that means running away, terribly fast. You are not Chuck Norris. You are not John McClane.

Youtube is full of videos of CCW holders shooting bad guys. Yay. Great. But go do some homework... pick any high-profile self-defense shooting case, and look up what happened to the CCW holder afterwards. Some of what goes down will really make you think twice about pulling a gun on someone.

How about crushing legal bills for starters and civil proceedings that drag on for years? Whether you're right or wrong doesn't matter if you wind up losing your job, your home... not to mention the personal toll. Take a look at what has happened to George Zimmerman's personal life, just as an example. Remember, this guy got acquitted. You think he just walked away? Think again.

Here's the point. If it truly is life-or-death, then there is no choice. Shoot. Your job, your home, the legal trouble are not worth more than your life. But ask yourself this when you look at those "hero" CCW shooting videos. Was it truly life-or-death?

Do you think you could make that call in heat of the moment? Or would it be smarter to escape-evade and live to see another sunrise that way?

Are you prepared for the aftermath? This is not a trivial question. If you carry, you're doing so because you have decided that you're okay with killing another human being... and all that entails.

This guy may not be the world's greatest orator, but he makes a very good point about getting the hell out of Dodge, and also about choice of carry weapon.

This, many many times this.

[adouglas]

Hero scenario pop quiz:

Question 1:

You're at the bank.

Perp walks in and holds up a teller. You're armed.

Do you:

1) Duck, cover, and make sure you can reach your gun in case the guy comes after you personally.

2) Draw, confront the perp, demand that he drop his gun, and if he does not comply immediately, shoot him.

If your answer is 2, you need to think harder. You also need to read up on the meaning of "self-defense" in your state.



Question 2:

You get carjacked or robbed at gunpoint.

Do you:

1) Let the perp have what he wants.

2) Preemptively shoot him.

This one's harder, because the perp is focused on you, not a third party. But again, the response is to avoid shooting by any means necessary. Remember Zimmerman's defense... he said he felt his life was in danger because they were having a physical scuffle. Would he have been better off to walk/run away? You bet.

[monjorrow]

Scenario 1: If he gets what he wants and doesn't start shooting, my gun never gets drawn. If he pulls the trigger though, ill take that as he doesn't want any witnesses and deal with the threat.

Scenario 2: If I can get to my gun quick enough, im going to draw and deal with the threat. A loaded weapon pointed directly at me is in fact a threat on my life and I have the right to defend myself.

There are a million different "what if" scenarios we could go through, but in the end it comes down to good judgement and keeping your life.

"Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6."

[liberpolly]

This is interesting:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/taur...-yes-gun-bent/

[liberpolly]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Hero scenario pop quiz:
Question 2:

You get carjacked or robbed at gunpoint.

Do you:

1) Let the perp have what he wants.

2) Preemptively shoot him.

The gun is pointed at you. In this situation, you must have some serious training to be able to pull your own gun without being shot first. Not every robber is as inept as the evil henchmen in old Bond movies.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

The gun is pointed at you. In this situation, you must have some serious training to be able to pull your own gun without being shot first. Not every robber is as inept as the evil henchmen in old Bond movies.

You are at a huge disadvantage at that point.

Surprise it your biggest advantage if you have a concealed weapon, and ideally you would not go for it unless the bad guy was distracted or not looking directly at you.

[monjorrow]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

The gun is pointed at you. In this situation, you must have some serious training to be able to pull your own gun without being shot first. Not every robber is as inept as the evil henchmen in old Bond movies.

I understand this. Which is why I said if I am able to get to my gun quick enough. Without getting shot myself in the process.

[cadd]

Originally Posted by liberpolly

The gun is pointed at you....

I don't want to open a whole new can of worms. But there's the debate with carrying with one in the chamber vs empty chamber.

@cbinker I had the G26 for a while (same size as your G27). While I don't CCW (or open carry for that matter), but if I'm ever in a situation where someone is in my house, I'd like to investigate with my firearm in a IWB holster. I found that I am slightly more accurate with the G19. For concealment purposes, the size difference between the 19 and the 26 wasn't a day and night difference for me personally as I don't carry regularly.

But the comfort level for IWB carry of these two pistols didn't have much to do with the barrel length difference, nor the grip length difference. It felt the same to me because they are both the same thickness (double stacked magazine).

And for those who wonder why I prefer to investigate a stranger in my house with my firearm in the holster is because of the exact reason @adouglas mentioned. I can't afford to shoot someone. I don't want to deal with the consequences. What if it were a Alzheimer neighbor's father that got confused and lost. Or what if it is a teenager with autism that walked in. I just can't justify taking another human's life unless I am fearing for my life.

And for your two scenarios, you guys can call me chicken sh!t or a big pu$$Y if you want to, but I will not start a gun fight.

At the bank, I rather him take the money and run off. If he's holding everyone hostage and pointing his gun at everyone (and he's alone) I may consider drawing and taking a clean shot if he's distracted enough. But I would need to be so scared up to the point where I'm almost pissing my pants.

For the car jacking. Just take my car man. Just take it.

Think about this for a moment. I have family members in the military. It's all fun and games when you're at the range slowly squeezing the trigger, concentrating on trigger control and your breathing while aiming at a motionless target. But my military friend told me to try to get my adrenaline pumping before my next magazine. Did a few burpees, push ups, etc.

I was shocked to see my grouping. All over the place!!! I'm just not skilled enough to handle a stressful situation like a home invasion, car jacking or bank robbery. I don't want to put an innocent person's life on the line if I miss.

[adouglas]

True story:

We all like to think that if something goes bump in the night, we'll be up with the baseball bat (or other implement of destruction) in our hands, alert and going to investigate and Protect Our Family, right?

Here's what really happens... I know because this actually happened to me.

First off, I'm pretty much blind without my glasses and have been since age 5 or so. When you're like that, you develop a sixth sense about where you put your glasses when you go to sleep, and instinctively reach for them the moment you wake up. You can do it blind drunk... I don't drink anymore, but I've done it. This comes from five decades of reaching for my glasses every single morning. Talk about instinctive muscle memory... it doesn't get any more ingrained than that.

So two years ago in the middle of winter, my wife comes home from work at about 2 am (she's a nurse). I'm sound asleep. I get woken up by an obviously distressed scream... ANDYYYY!!!!!!!!!!

What do I do without thinking? I roll out of bed and rush to the head of the stairs without my glasses, without a flashlight, in my bare feet, empty-handed and half conscious. Blind and stumbling. My hindbrain had taken over. There was zero thought involved.

The one thing I can do without thinking, that I've done literally 20,000 times... I failed to do.

Turns out it was a frozen pipe and there was water spraying everywhere.

You want to know how you'll REALLY react to a potential intruder? Set up a surprise drill for yourself.

The bright side of this is that if I'm too out of it to remember my glasses, I'll also forget the gun... so I'm not too worried about putting a hole in the dog by mistake.

[cadd]

So much fail in so many ways.

Link to original page on YouTube.

As a police officer, you'd think he'll know the 4 cardinal rules of gun safety.

As a gun shop employee, what on earth were they thinking when they put a loaded magazine in a gun, in the display case?!

[adouglas]

Not least of which is the title....