Using legs to keep stable?

[Sykes92]

So after seeing multiple videos about keeping my arms loose and keeping a one-fist distance from the tank and my manhood, it would seem I always have to clench the sides of my gas tank. My body keeps wanting to just slide up against the tank however. Its actually easier to hold on to the tank when I'm up against it because my legs are on the side grips more ergonomically. It's not a huge pain to keep readjusting myself and to squeeze on the tank, but I'm confused as to whether or not I am doing something right/wrong.

[adouglas]

You're doing it right.

I highly recommend the purchase of Stomp Grips or Gripsters. (I had Gripsters on mine.) Well worth it because you don't have to squeeze as hard to maintain your position.

Or you could just glue your butt to the seat, but that gets messy.

[csmith12]

Hmmmm..... Ergonomically? How so, you a tall rider?

When would it NOT be a good idea to be against the tank?

[subxero]

^ When you about to hit a speed bump or pot hole in the road and potentially smash your Hardy Boyz and by Hardy Boyz I mean testicles.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by subxero

^ When you about to hit a speed bump or pot hole in the road and potentially smash your Hardy Boyz and by Hardy Boyz I mean testicles.

Valid reason indeed, there is more though.

[JohnnyBravo]

I'm usually up against the tank unless I'm Layin out. Gripping the tank def helps keep the bike happy.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Valid reason indeed, there is more though.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You're doing it right.

I highly recommend the purchase of Stomp Grips or Gripsters. (I had Gripsters on mine.) Well worth it because you don't have to squeeze as hard to maintain your position.

Or you could just glue your butt to the seat, but that gets messy.

I'd much rather have grips than glue

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Valid reason indeed, there is more though.

More you say, is that one of codes quotes???

[csmith12]

lol - no, it's one of mine Just trying to get riders to think a little bit.

All riders scoot around in the seat as needed, to farthest forward to farthest back for various reasons. There is nothing really wrong with that and is encouraged along with frequent breaks especially on your longer rides. However, you can get started answering the "where to sit" question with just a few minutes spent on the seat of your own bike and observe some fundamentals.

Try this, sit on your bike and slide all the way up against the tank. Then slide a cheek off to the left. What just happened to your right knee? How effective is the right leg at squeezing the tank now? What part of the leg are you now holding on with?

Now slide back in the seat about 4 inches or so and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

Now slide back all the way in the seat and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

How does your physical size vs. the size of the ninja affect this? Try to fully tuck behind the windscreen while against the tank vs. setting back.

After all, the ninja is a "sport bike". The seat is designed a specific way for a reason. Compare the seat angle vs. a touring bike and ask yourself, why they would do such a thing?

I can reference many, many reasons to slide back off the tank but I can only find a couple "good" to sit against it. Feel me?

[csmith12]

Also, say you put some grip tape on your tank. When doing the above tests, how effective is the grip tape if it's put in the normal spot? So now where are you gunna put it? Would look kinda odd right?

[alex.s]

listen to chris. he speaks truths.

most of the time i spend on the side of the seat, not centered. when you're on the side you can use the inside of your thigh against the tank better esp while braking.

[Sykes92]

Wow, lots of really good information to absorb haha. Thanks guys! Yeah I try my best to keep the "right" position, my body just likes to slide to the tank, I only weigh 130lbs so I not quite as planted as maybe my friends who weigh more haha. But Ill sit around on my bike a bit to get a feel for different adjustments. Also might look into the grips if it helps me not having to death grip the tank just to stay a fist away.

[csmith12]

Fyi, your weight has nothing to do with how firmly planted you can be on the bike, that is 100% up to you. Many riders are "racer sized" (130ish lbs) like you and have a firm lock on the bike just as good any anyone else.

Just remember what is "right" is suggestive and can change from rider to rider depending on your personal riding style (casual/commuter vs. aggressive vs. very aggressive). The ninja is a little, somewhat narrow bike and it also doesn't have a very pronounced tank lip to lock your knee under, so adjustments might be needed depending on your physical size and what is comfortable and most importantly... gives you confidence. But that doesn't give you a free pass to be lazy.

If I remember right, you just started riding about a month ago. So no worries mate, just never stop learning and enjoy the ride. You got plenty of time.

[JohnnyBravo]

Good stuff good stuff !!!

[allanoue]

Marc Márquez
Weight: 130 lbs (59 kg)

If you do not know who he is, google.

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Fyi, your weight has nothing to do with how firmly planted you can be on the bike, that is 100% up to you. Many riders are "racer sized" (130ish lbs) like you and have a firm lock on the bike just as good any anyone else.

Just remember what is "right" is suggestive and can change from rider to rider depending on your personal riding style (casual/commuter vs. aggressive vs. very aggressive). The ninja is a little, somewhat narrow bike and it also doesn't have a very pronounced tank lip to lock your knee under, so adjustments might be needed depending on your physical size and what is comfortable and most importantly... gives you confidence. But that doesn't give you a free pass to be lazy.

If I remember right, you just started riding about a month ago. So no worries mate, just never stop learning and enjoy the ride. You got plenty of time.

Well if I do the one-fist distance, I feel a little more in control of the bike. If I sit right up against it, I'm more comfortable. The shape of the plastic on below the tank conforms to my legs really nicely. But then there's the issue of hitting the boys. If I do invest in tank pads, would you recommend I first just try to get used to different positions first?

[csmith12]

What I should say...
Stay that fist distance from the tank because you feel the most in control there. As with anything new, it will take some time to get used to. Gripping the bike with your core muscles for long periods of time takes some time to build the strength & endurance before it really becomes second nature. And when you hit a pothole or have an opps moment, your wedding tackle will thank you.

What is realistic to say...
Just enjoy riding first and don't sweat the small stuff too much. Honestly, there are simply more important things to focus on when you're just starting out. You know... throttle, brakes, visual skill building and staying alive in traffic. As soon as you have a solid grasp on those skills, then 100% for sure come back, experiment and reevaluate your seating as it relates to your current riding habits. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it's ok to hump the tank. I am saying it's ok to do what you need to do to learn more important skills without distractions.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

............. Just enjoy riding first and don't sweat the small stuff too much. Honestly, there are simply more important things to focus on when you're just starting out. You know... throttle, brakes, visual skill building and staying alive in traffic. ..........

Learn the basics well and everything else will naturally follow.

Learning bad riding habits, just to have to unlearn those later in order to improve is much more harder than taking it as slow as needed to learn the proper basic techniques from good coach, experienced friend or virtual advise.

Of course, at the beginning, none of us knew what was important and what not.
Two books can help you greatly:
"A twist of the wrist 2" and "Proficient Motorcycling"

In my opinion, if you want to become a good and old street rider, these are the very first skills to master to perfection:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=249&Set=

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=310

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=109

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=267&Set=

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=540

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=258

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=230&Set=

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by csmith12

What I should say...
Stay that fist distance from the tank because you feel the most in control there. As with anything new, it will take some time to get used to. Gripping the bike with your core muscles for long periods of time takes some time to build the strength & endurance before it really becomes second nature. And when you hit a pothole or have an opps moment, your wedding tackle will thank you.

What is realistic to say...
Just enjoy riding first and don't sweat the small stuff too much. Honestly, there are simply more important things to focus on when you're just starting out. You know... throttle, brakes, visual skill building and staying alive in traffic. As soon as you have a solid grasp on those skills, then 100% for sure come back, experiment and reevaluate your seating as it relates to your current riding habits. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it's ok to hump the tank. I am saying it's ok to do what you need to do to learn more important skills without distractions.

Originally Posted by Motofool

Learn the basics well and everything else will naturally follow.

Learning bad riding habits, just to have to unlearn those later in order to improve is much more harder than taking it as slow as needed to learn the proper basic techniques from good coach, experienced friend or virtual advise.

Of course, at the beginning, none of us knew what was important and what not.
Two books can help you greatly:
"A twist of the wrist 2" and "Proficient Motorcycling"

In my opinion, if you want to become a good and old street rider, these are the very first skills to master to perfection:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=249&Set=

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=310

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=109

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=267&Set=

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=540

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=258

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=230&Set=

This is all really great information! Glad I joined this forum! As for my seating situation, Im going to remove to seat pad that it came with and just try riding it stock to see if that makes a difference. But Ill focus moreso on all these techniques before I start to really worry about my seat position. Thanks again everyone!

[JohnnyBravo]

Wedding tackle

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

This is all really great information! Glad I joined this forum! ...........Thanks again everyone!

We are glad as well !!!

You are welcome

The trick is trying to learn something new at each ride, so you keep becoming a better rider than you used to be.
Only you can set the path of your own progress and understanding.

Don't shy away from experimentation, from imagining questions to ask yourself or bring over this forum, and even from challenging our responses to your questions, because.....

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." ― Albert Einstein

[ally99]

Hm, I try to slide back in the seat to weight the rear under hard braking but still grip the tank with my knees to keep me from sliding forward. I tend to prefer either mid-seat or more towards the back, and my rear sets tend to make that a more comfortable leg position for me.

[Thorgrim]

I'm one of the newest idiots here, so I'll comment.

First I should explain that prior to this year, most of my riding was on dirt bikes - MX, eastern US strip mine roads, single-track, and that colored my experiences a lot - as in I was either on the pegs, or on the tank. IMnsHO, it works a bit differently on the street. I'm confounded by the design of my CB500F (yeah, I know, I know, a Honda owner on a Ninjette forum, WTF, but I learn here and I had the Honda when I found this place), the seat is canted strongly to the front and at first I ended up with my naughty bits on the tank by virtue of gravity. Gradually I adjusted, but I still have a subconscious creep toward the tank when I'm seated. It's a problem, I'm working on it. A lot of dirt riding translates roughly to street, and a lot ... just doesn't. My riding buddy keeps trying to talk me out of trading for a supermoto, but I'm not sure he's right.

While I was first concerned with comfort/discomfort regarding the seat angle, I've gradually found that weight distribution is just as important on asphalt as dirt, maybe even more so. The feeling of getting the weight where it should be helps me break old habits, choosing effectiveness over comfort and familiarity. I've still got a long way to go, but it's getting better.

With all that rubbish in mind, are you sliding up on the tank to gain control, or simply because the bike is set up to put you there? There's a very critical difference in the two. I've also noticed that at very, very slow speeds, I gain control of a dirt bike by sliding forward, and lose control on a street bike by doing the same. Even if you don't topple at a light, that lack of balance/control is unsettling and will affect your comfort on the bike.

[fast1075]

Interesting thread. When I change up between the Buell and the 250, the riding style changes dramatically. The reach to the bars is a lot less on the Buell. I usually ride parked close to the tank on the 250 to get the proper arm angle and weight forward. (I an quite short at 5'5"...just about exactly Kenny Roberts height).

Since the question seems to a large extent deal with protecting the naughty bits, wear underwear that supports very well, especially in warm weather to keep everything out of harms way.

Compression shorts like bicycle riders wear are good, and you can get them with gel padding in the seat, which helps on long rides. Interestingly enough, I came up with using them when I was an avid Bass tournament angler. There is not much in this world more painful than running in rough water in a bass boat and after hitting a wave end up coming down on the twins because of lack of support.

So seating position is a balance, and it varies from moment to moment really. Gripping the bike with your knees keeps you planted and applies force to move the bike around while keeping proper position.

[JohnnyBravo]

Since reading this thread I seem to show less and less love to my seat... Still aint draggin knee, but hey I'm on public streets

[JohnnyBravo]

What a difference a day (and a ride makes) idk if I'm exactly a fist off the tank or not, but my suspension seems a lot happier (amongst other things) when I'm not riding my tank. My seat may or may not be happy with my business all over it, but the bike seems happier and handles waaaaaaay better
Even had to do the "look ma no hands" thing yesterday just for fun.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Thanks for all that talk about not always sitting nuts to tank... Yea yea wrong thread, helped regardless... My rides are smoother, have more flow, and in general more pleasurable

It's all you brah, I didn't do anything but give you some info.

As far as the feel, the bike's suspension can compensate for a lot of things. But the suspension bit's cannot compensate for the rider's fore and aft position on the bike. Possibly that is what your feeling.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

As far as the feel, the bike's suspension can compensate for a lot of things. But the suspension bit's cannot compensate for the rider's fore and aft position on the bike. Possibly that is what your feeling.

Yup... I feel more centered on the bike, and it likes it. Plus it just feels better.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Try this, sit on your bike and slide all the way up against the tank. Then slide a cheek off to the left. What just happened to your right knee? How effective is the right leg at squeezing the tank now? What part of the leg are you now holding on with?

Now slide back in the seat about 4 inches or so and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

Now slide back all the way in the seat and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

I was thinking of this post this evening. I've just gone through the process of breaking in a track suit (warm shower and wear it as it dries method) and I decided to hop on the bike (which is on stands for the winter) to see how comfy it'd be.

I did some "strike the pose" body positioning practice and indeed did find a really big difference in the feel, forward vs. slid back. Once hunkered down and hanging off, it's a lot easier to get good body position if I slide back.

It was a useful drill, because I was able to find some reference points on my body and the bike that correspond to good body position. For example, for hanging off on the left side, it's right pectoral touching the tank in a specific spot and right forearm in contact with the tank. Those two points plus my right knee in contact make a repeatable reference position that I can hit easily.

[Sykes92]

So after riding for about another month, I have gotten pretty used to the seating but there are times where my spine is not happy. Still takes a fair amount of effort squeezing the tank to keep me from sliding forward. And the "weight on the thighs" is difficult because at 130lb, I dont have a lot of thigh contacting the seat hahah. I did take the seat cusion off though to try and experience stock seat.

[JohnnyBravo]

Ya want more thigh huh? Run, jog, swim, and go to the gym
as for your spine, I wouldn't know(chronic lower back pain here) I feels fine as ever on my bike though.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

So after riding for about another month, I have gotten pretty used to the seating but there are times where my spine is not happy. Still takes a fair amount of effort squeezing the tank to keep me from sliding forward. And the "weight on the thighs" is difficult because at 130lb, I dont have a lot of thigh contacting the seat hahah. I did take the seat cusion off though to try and experience stock seat.

personally I grip the tank with my knees and very little thigh (140lbs (up from 130 (building muscle ))) if you're worried about that just head to your local gym and get some weighted squats in though it isn't really necessary after you find your comfort zone in the saddle.

if you're worried about thigh strength get a road cycle/mountain bike and use it daily, or run, or do squats. as for the lower back pain I personally only feel pain in my hips when I'm choking a blood vessel with a belt or something and get a cramp (absolutely sucks) so I don't know what it is that you're up to, I'd do some daily crunches to deal with this if changing your position on the bike and or getting rearsets doesn't help.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

So after riding for about another month, I have gotten pretty used to the seating but there are times where my spine is not happy. Still takes a fair amount of effort squeezing the tank to keep me from sliding forward. And the "weight on the thighs" is difficult because at 130lb, I dont have a lot of thigh contacting the seat hahah. I did take the seat cusion off though to try and experience stock seat.

you might want to try what i do and ride with your ass a couple inches to the side so more of your thigh is against the tank. it accomplishes two things, forward stability, and you're set up to turn already. i almost never ride completely centered. too much effort when braking. i can never do the wavey arm braking exercise when im' braking centered up. only when braking off to the side of the seat

[Sykes92]

UPDATE:
Since this seems to be pretty "hot topic". I have to say, in the last week or two, my body has gotten really used to the "ideal" seating position. And my leg muscles have actually gotten stronger. I can actually sit my ass almost the very rear of the seat, about a fist distance from the tank, and it feels pretty comfortable. It makes huddling down on the tank more comfortable and it seems to help with turning. Plus it makes you look like you're on an aggressive bike ;P. Sorta... lol

For what it's worth my bike came with clip-ons and aftermarket rearsets. So it may be easier for anyone with stock parts to adjust to this new positioning since it's more upright. Idk, maybe.

There is tons of great information in this thread. And for any new riders that read this in the future (I'm still very new myself ) I'll try to contribute my 2 cents from beginning to where I am now: Just ride and do your best to keep your "boys" away from the gas tank. Eventually you can semi-consciously keep a "one-fist" distance from the tank and grip the tank with your knees to take weight off the bars. I promise you, eventually your muscles WILL get used to the new and awkward body position.

I may still try tank grips just to see what kind of difference they make. But this slashes one weird/new thing off the list of starting on a motorcycle.

[Sirref]

I'd argue that the seating position would be more comfortable with clip ons and rearsets but that's just me because I find myself in a tuck for a fair amount of time.

[Sykes92]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I'd argue that the seating position would be more comfortable with clip ons and rearsets but that's just me because I find myself in a tuck for a fair amount of time.

It may very well indeed. I was just making a guess, Ive yet to ride a stock 250.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You're doing it right.

I highly recommend the purchase of Stomp Grips or Gripsters. (I had Gripsters on mine.) Well worth it because you don't have to squeeze as hard to maintain your position.

Or you could just glue your butt to the seat, but that gets messy.

Stomp grips or tech spec or any of those products will help for sure but it is also important to get comfortable placement on your seat and use your knees to squeeze the tank to keep you there.

Originally Posted by csmith12

lol - no, it's one of mine Just trying to get riders to think a little bit.

All riders scoot around in the seat as needed, to farthest forward to farthest back for various reasons. There is nothing really wrong with that and is encouraged along with frequent breaks especially on your longer rides. However, you can get started answering the "where to sit" question with just a few minutes spent on the seat of your own bike and observe some fundamentals.

Try this, sit on your bike and slide all the way up against the tank. Then slide a cheek off to the left. What just happened to your right knee? How effective is the right leg at squeezing the tank now? What part of the leg are you now holding on with?

Now slide back in the seat about 4 inches or so and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

Now slide back all the way in the seat and slide a cheek off and perform the same checks. What is the difference?

How does your physical size vs. the size of the ninja affect this? Try to fully tuck behind the windscreen while against the tank vs. setting back.

After all, the ninja is a "sport bike". The seat is designed a specific way for a reason. Compare the seat angle vs. a touring bike and ask yourself, why they would do such a thing?

I can reference many, many reasons to slide back off the tank but I can only find a couple "good" to sit against it. Feel me?

Great exercise, you sound like a California Superbike School coach

I'll add a few things here: Most riders sit too close to the tank because they find it comfortable for themselves and because they tend to naturally slide forward into the seat. But, if you follow the exercise as you outlined above, you should find that when you sit back in the seat a little bit you are able to get a more effective and tighter grip on the tank which will help with overall stability on the bike. The more stable you are with your lower body, the less input you put into the handlebars with your arms and the more relaxed you are able to be.

Another plus of sitting back in the seat a little bit is that it usually brings your arms down a little bit so they are not pushing DOWN on the bars but are now pushing forward. For another exercise try pushing DOWN on the bars and see how effective the steering input is vs pushing FORWARD on the bars. Notice a difference?

[corksil]

Now I'm up in this thread...

Been noticing exactly the same as OP lately.

Constantly finding myself bashing my nutsack into the tank, or somehow sitting on the objects in question. However when I consciously maintain a rear-ward seating position, the bike feels much more stable.

Difficult to describe but when I'm up against the tank and I hit bumps, I feel the back of the bike kick up under my ass and try to buck me forward more. When I scoot back to where it feels like my tailbone is 'hooked' over the rear of the seat and I can feel the cowling cover arse bumber against the base of my spine, bumps are much smoother and I constantly find myself anticipating a major kick to the arse which never comes.

It's as if being right on the tank doesn't load the rear suspension and it transfers the bumps up into the rider. Sitting further rear, loads the rear suspension so it works right within it's optimal range and it's a smoother ride.

I also notice that sitting forward makes leaning off the bike incredibly difficult -- sliding to one side rotates the outside knee out and AWAY from the tank making it difficult to lock on and thus I hold on to the bars too tight and everything wobbles and shakes.

Sitting further back allows the lower body and core to get a better hold on the bike when hanging off.

Seems like that's the general consensus of this thread. Sit further back.

It's quite a workout holding myself back with my knees, but I attribute that to slippery, baggy jeans, no fairings (for a few weeks now), and incredibly large testicles that almost as as giant ball bearings that I end up sitting on (due to their massive size), and then I roll forward due to a lowered coefficient of friction and increased forward inertia gained by the mechanical advantage of the rolling effect.

I really need to get some proper riding pants. These jeans are like a layer of teflon between me and the bike.

[csmith12]