[visordown.com] - Supercharged Ninja H2 launch this month - Page 3

Ducati999 · September 28th, 2014, 07:02 AM

Wings of that small size will only give a marginal down force at high speed. The aerodynamics of the fairing dont get efficient till over 90 mph when the air flow (with rider crouched over tank) smooths out and will flow smoothly over the wings-- so cornering at high lean angle will not be effected. Running wide open in a straight line will give more down force to help keep the front down but when the rider sits up this will negate any effects the wings may cause. Also since the bike is leaned over in a turn and not going straight there will be a lot of turbulent airflow not smooth airflow over the wings so they will be much less efficient at lean. I believe Kawasaki did their home work (wind tunnel testing) and they are there to help keep the light weight high power bike on both wheels while accelerating hard in a straight line, no "active" control needed!

choneofakind · September 28th, 2014, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati999

The aerodynamics of the fairing don't get efficient till over 90 mph when the air flow (with rider crouched over tank) smooths out and will flow smoothly over the wings-- so cornering at high lean angle will not be effected.

Yes and no. Airflow doesn't magically just smooth out; where the fairing is 'efficient', as you call it, depends on the shape of the bike. The shape determines where turbulence begins over the body, and how turbulent the flow becomes. Theoretically, you could make a small turbulent layer form right at the trailing edge of the windscreen to force air to curl back down with the back of the rider and fill in the void left after the tail of the bike. This would increase skin drag, but it will be tiny in comparison to the reduction in form drag. I initially doubt the engineers would make this magic break even point at a speed as high as 90 mph, but maybe. It is a SS, that is meant to be lapping tracks at 90-110 avg speed, after all.

However, if those wings are on the front, they will almost always be encountering 'smooth' airflow that has not yet been disturbed by flow from other portions of fairing. This means they will always be working. But none of this has anything to do with lean angle because the bike leans about the lengthwise axis of the bike, the same axis that the flow travels along. The angle of attack never changes based on lean angle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati999

Running wide open in a straight line will give more down force to help keep the front down but when the rider sits up this will negate any effects the wings may cause. Also since the bike is leaned over in a turn and not going straight there will be a lot of turbulent airflow not smooth airflow over the wings so they will be much less efficient at lean.

Lean angle has no effect on the smoothness of the incoming air. As long as the bike is traveling in the same direction is is pointing, not sliding sideways at some angle of attack, the aerodynamic properties of the vehicle will be the same. Think about it, the air is moving along the lengthwise axis of the bike, regardless of the lean angle or turning rate. The only thing that changes the angle of attack with the oncoming wind is if the bike is traveling into the wind, but pointing a different direction, aka, sliding. As long as the bike is traveling forwards, the wings will have an effect.

I think what you're missing is that while the bike does change direction while turning, unless it is sliding, it never changes direction relative to the ground below it and the air in front of it. Without cross wind, the nose of the bike will always feel wind coming directly at it with a zero angle of attack, regardless of lean angle or turn rate. The same can be said for the ground traveling past the wheels. Unless the wheel slides sideways, the ground will always travel the same direction relative to the wheel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_attack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbulence

Ducati999 · September 28th, 2014, 08:14 AM

I agree with what you said totally I just expressed it in extremely simple terms so everyone could understand. I was lazy and did not want to dig up the facts from my aero/hydro dynamics classes. Thanks for the details though i believe it will help people further understand what was being said.

Jono · September 28th, 2014, 09:26 AM

I'm sure Kawasaki will tell us exactly what they are trying to do with these wings on the 30th!

Like the Duc, I'm sure the side winglets have more to do with cooling the engine than changing the downforce.

choneofakind · September 28th, 2014, 10:55 AM

^^^ I would bet that we get marketing mumbo jumbo instead of a technical explaination, but hey.

Jono · September 28th, 2014, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

^^^ I would bet that we get marketing mumbo jumbo instead of a technical explaination, but hey.

Well of course. They have to dumb it down for all the squids who want this crazy fast bike with wings.

Aggrotech · September 28th, 2014, 05:49 PM

Think ill buy it, paint it the Redbull colors, get sponsored by them and get paid by just riding around.

win/win

Alex · September 29th, 2014, 09:48 AM

From reddit today; this is supposed to be a front shot.

Sirref · September 29th, 2014, 09:50 AM

they put the wrong logo on the front, they clearly meant for it to be a decepticon logo

garth285 · September 29th, 2014, 10:03 AM

Alex, where on reddit did ya find that?

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 10:16 AM

Badass! Photo looks legit!

Aggrotech · September 29th, 2014, 12:11 PM

wouldnt even be street legal since theres no lights, right?

xorbe · September 29th, 2014, 12:11 PM

So it's gonna be a track only machine. ^^^ What he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garth285

Alex, where on reddit did ya find that?

http://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/...h2_front_shot/

garth285 · September 29th, 2014, 12:13 PM

That picture could be of the "race" version if they are doing that

subxero · September 29th, 2014, 12:54 PM

leaked photo, it was only a matter of time before the bikes caught up to the cars

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 03:07 PM

But why have mirror wings if it's not for the street? Mmmmmm

subxero · September 29th, 2014, 03:42 PM

Link to original page on YouTube.

xorbe · September 29th, 2014, 03:49 PM

Hopefully tomorrow the Ninja H2 details are out, also the Honda HR-V details.

alex.s · September 29th, 2014, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

But why have mirror wings if it's not for the street? Mmmmmm

i see no mirrors.

snot · September 29th, 2014, 04:26 PM

Is it the 30th in japan now? Who do we need to kick out of bed to unveiled this wonderful machine?

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

i see no mirrors.

I stand corrected. I was looking on my phone earlier and I thought the wings by the windscreen double as mirrors. Now that I am on the computer I can clearly see that's not the case.

This is going to be one expensive track toy!

Brother Michigan · September 29th, 2014, 05:46 PM

Hnnnngggggg...

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/the...ane-1640558028

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 06:02 PM

Wicked!

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 06:06 PM

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 06:33 PM

Many more photos here: http://www.ninjah2.net/threads/ninja...f-intermot.46/

And rumor is 300HP!

choneofakind · September 29th, 2014, 06:46 PM

Its badass. But it's uglier than a buttcrack Afro...

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 06:55 PM

Looks better than a pregen.

choneofakind · September 29th, 2014, 06:58 PM

Touché sir. *backs out of the room slowly*

Aufitt · September 29th, 2014, 07:00 PM

So a 17 year old with every garish anodized turd from the Bikers catalogue on his Ninja 300 designed his dream bike.

Sirref · September 29th, 2014, 07:06 PM

I'd rock this bike but you can really tell who their target audience with the styling is :/

the hp4 looks better to me and I'm not the biggest fan of the asymmetrical look

kdogg2077 · September 29th, 2014, 07:07 PM

I didnt know Michael Bay designed bikes in his spare time. I swear Shredder rode this in the new turtles "movie".

xorbe · September 29th, 2014, 07:50 PM

US$25K? Less? More?

Brother Michigan · September 29th, 2014, 08:04 PM

Much more, at least for the H2-R.

Jono · September 29th, 2014, 08:14 PM

I'm gonna guess that the street legal H2 won't have a carbon fiber front fairing. Who knows. Maybe there won't even be a street legal version.

csmith12 · September 29th, 2014, 08:32 PM

I am trying to figure out why all the wings and getup at the top and no lower?!?!?!?

Sirref · September 29th, 2014, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

I am trying to figure out why all the wings and getup at the top and no lower?!?!?!?

looks like 2.5 sets, one up top that could double as mirrors on a road version one in the middle that could double as turn signals and about mid way down, why would they put one low when it could impact ground clearance?

KawiKid860 · September 29th, 2014, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Errrrmm... Wings actually produce quite a bit of drag. The trade off for downforce...

You're absolutely correct, but don't cars have superior downforce to bikes too...? So wouldn't more downforce still translate to better aerodynamics, provided downforce was the goal not top speed?

Either way, I read these wings were there to break up stagnant air and provide better cooling to the engine/supercharger.

alex.s · September 29th, 2014, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

You're absolutely correct, but don't cars have superior downforce to bikes too...? So wouldn't more downforce still translate to better aerodynamics, provided downforce was the goal not top speed?

Either way, I read these wings were there to break up stagnant air and provide better cooling to the engine/supercharger.

first of all, the cross section of a bike is about 1/5th of a car. the drag on a car is much higher regardless of a more aerodynamic shape.

secondly, ... "break up stagnant air and provide better cooling"? ...... care to elaborate on those thoughts?

alex.s · September 29th, 2014, 11:28 PM

i'm not gonna lie though.

that is one ****ing ugly bike. like holy **** they beat that thing with the ugly stick until it had no face left.

the 90s called and want their styling back

KawiKid860 · September 29th, 2014, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

first of all, the cross section of a bike is about 1/5th of a car. the drag on a car is much higher regardless of a more aerodynamic shape.

secondly, ... "break up stagnant air and provide better cooling"? ...... care to elaborate on those thoughts?

Not my thoughts, read it somewhere else so

September 29th, 2014, 09:48 AM	#88
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	From reddit today; this is supposed to be a front shot. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 29th, 2014, 09:50 AM	#89
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	they put the wrong logo on the front, they clearly meant for it to be a decepticon logo __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 29th, 2014, 03:42 PM	#97
subxero dirty boy Name: Joe Location: Johnstown, PA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '14	Link to original page on YouTube. __________________________________________________ I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.

September 29th, 2014, 05:46 PM	#102
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	Hnnnngggggg... http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/the...ane-1640558028 __________________________________________________ DISCLAIMER: I generally have no idea what I'm talking about.
	2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

September 29th, 2014, 06:06 PM	#104
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.
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September 28th, 2014, 07:02 AM	#81
Ducati999 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ant Location: Wooster Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 999 2012 Ninja 250r Ducati748 Yellow finally running 2003 SV650 S (SOLD) Posts: A lot.	Wings of that small size will only give a marginal down force at high speed. The aerodynamics of the fairing dont get efficient till over 90 mph when the air flow (with rider crouched over tank) smooths out and will flow smoothly over the wings-- so cornering at high lean angle will not be effected. Running wide open in a straight line will give more down force to help keep the front down but when the rider sits up this will negate any effects the wings may cause. Also since the bike is leaned over in a turn and not going straight there will be a lot of turbulent airflow not smooth airflow over the wings so they will be much less efficient at lean. I believe Kawasaki did their home work (wind tunnel testing) and they are there to help keep the light weight high power bike on both wheels while accelerating hard in a straight line, no "active" control needed!

September 28th, 2014, 08:14 AM	#83
Ducati999 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ant Location: Wooster Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 999 2012 Ninja 250r Ducati748 Yellow finally running 2003 SV650 S (SOLD) Posts: A lot.	I agree with what you said totally I just expressed it in extremely simple terms so everyone could understand. I was lazy and did not want to dig up the facts from my aero/hydro dynamics classes. Thanks for the details though i believe it will help people further understand what was being said.

September 28th, 2014, 09:26 AM	#84
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	I'm sure Kawasaki will tell us exactly what they are trying to do with these wings on the 30th! Like the Duc, I'm sure the side winglets have more to do with cooling the engine than changing the downforce.

September 28th, 2014, 10:55 AM	#85
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	^^^ I would bet that we get marketing mumbo jumbo instead of a technical explaination, but hey.

September 28th, 2014, 05:49 PM	#87
Aggrotech ninjette.org sage Name: Justin Location: Fresno CA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 12' Ninja 250 Posts: 831	Think ill buy it, paint it the Redbull colors, get sponsored by them and get paid by just riding around. win/win

September 29th, 2014, 10:03 AM	#90
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	Alex, where on reddit did ya find that?

September 29th, 2014, 10:16 AM	#91
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Badass! Photo looks legit!

September 29th, 2014, 12:11 PM	#92
Aggrotech ninjette.org sage Name: Justin Location: Fresno CA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 12' Ninja 250 Posts: 831	wouldnt even be street legal since theres no lights, right?

September 29th, 2014, 12:13 PM	#94
garth285 KAWASAKI GURU Name: Shawn Location: Florida Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): Turbo Ninja 250 Posts: 863	That picture could be of the "race" version if they are doing that

September 29th, 2014, 03:07 PM	#96
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	But why have mirror wings if it's not for the street? Mmmmmm

September 29th, 2014, 03:49 PM	#98
xorbe ninjette.org guru Name: xorbe Location: Bay Area, CA Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): N650 (and others) Posts: 408	Hopefully tomorrow the Ninja H2 details are out, also the Honda HR-V details.

September 29th, 2014, 04:26 PM	#100
snot sammich maker Name: snot Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 white 300, 09 KLX 250 SF, 09 thunder blue 250(traded) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '15	Is it the 30th in japan now? Who do we need to kick out of bed to unveiled this wonderful machine?

September 29th, 2014, 06:02 PM	#103
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Wicked!

September 29th, 2014, 06:33 PM	#105
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Many more photos here: http://www.ninjah2.net/threads/ninja...f-intermot.46/ And rumor is 300HP!

September 29th, 2014, 06:46 PM	#106
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Its badass. But it's uglier than a buttcrack Afro...
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 29th, 2014, 06:55 PM	#107
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Looks better than a pregen.

September 29th, 2014, 06:58 PM	#108
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Touché sir. backs out of the room slowly

September 29th, 2014, 07:00 PM	#109
Aufitt The A Team Name: Aufitt Location: Western Australia Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Z50, CB125, RZ500, MC22, R3. Posts: 394	So a 17 year old with every garish anodized turd from the Bikers catalogue on his Ninja 300 designed his dream bike.
	2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

September 29th, 2014, 07:06 PM	#110
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	I'd rock this bike but you can really tell who their target audience with the styling is :/ the hp4 looks better to me and I'm not the biggest fan of the asymmetrical look __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

September 29th, 2014, 07:07 PM	#111
kdogg2077 ninjette.org sage Name: Alex Location: Ebensburg, PA Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2015 Yamaha FZ07, Ninja 250r 2012 Limited Edition (Sold) Posts: 529	I didnt know Michael Bay designed bikes in his spare time. I swear Shredder rode this in the new turtles "movie". __________________________________________________ "Take it easy driving. The life you might save might be mine."

September 29th, 2014, 07:50 PM	#112
xorbe ninjette.org guru Name: xorbe Location: Bay Area, CA Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): N650 (and others) Posts: 408	US$25K? Less? More?

September 29th, 2014, 08:04 PM	#113
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	Much more, at least for the H2-R. __________________________________________________ DISCLAIMER: I generally have no idea what I'm talking about.

September 29th, 2014, 08:14 PM	#114
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	I'm gonna guess that the street legal H2 won't have a carbon fiber front fairing. Who knows. Maybe there won't even be a street legal version.

September 29th, 2014, 08:32 PM	#115
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	I am trying to figure out why all the wings and getup at the top and no lower?!?!?!? __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

September 29th, 2014, 11:28 PM	#119
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i'm not gonna lie though. that is one **ing ugly bike. like holy ** they beat that thing with the ugly stick until it had no face left. the 90s called and want their styling back __________________________________________________

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