Zero SR... would you buy?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

And I'd bet that you've never used heated grips before either. No need to talk **** about something you've never tried. Next thing you'll tell us that gsxr's suck because that's what all the squids ride.

you're comparing this bike to a Ferarri? Difference is IMO a Ferarri IS worth the money when you're comparing it to a Kia (when you can afford it, of course). Having a bike that's not only worth the money of a CAR is too marvelous for me, but being priced 3x the amount that it should be is why I am saying it's overpriced. Cool, it's electric, cool, it has heated grips, not something I would need from a motorcycle, because when I'm riding mine it better be nice out.

[b.miller123]

I'm comparing it to a Ferrari because they are both consumer products that are marketed to a certain group of people, and they are both more expensive than the standard counterpart. I guess I could have compared it to a tesla instead.

To you this bike isn't worth what it costs. Currently, electric bikes are novelty items. They will remain that way for a little while until the technology catches up and people get over the stigmas and start believing facts again and not anticdotes they've read on message boards.

We don't need swappable battery packs. You can fully charge a Tesla sedan in 20 minutes. Not that much more than what it takes to fill up a car with gas. Battery packs last longer than most people think, and they will only get better. The 100k mile lifetime is a myth.

Again, heated grips aren't your thing? So I'm guessing any kind of heated gear isn't your thing either? Are you just as upset about the companies making other stuff you don't use? Pissed off that Singer just came out with a new sewing machine? Mad that Ben and Jerry just came out with another stupid ice cream flavor you don't like?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

Again, heated grips aren't your thing? So I'm guessing any kind of heated gear isn't your thing either? Are you just as upset about the companies making other stuff you don't use? Pissed off that Singer just came out with a new sewing machine? Mad that Ben and Jerry just came out with another stupid ice cream flavor you don't like?

I never said I was mad I just see them as being a counterproductive accessory for a motorcycle since your whole body is already.. outside, but maybe I'm wrong. I have never used them, that's all.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

you're comparing this bike to a Ferarri? Difference is IMO a Ferarri IS worth the money when you're comparing it to a Kia (when you can afford it, of course).

Lol. This coming from the high schooler. I'm not THAT much older than you but I see it this way; a Ferrari costs as much as my family's house, and we live in a nice suburb. Let's just keep that in perspective. Unless you a) have literally too much money to wipe your butt with or b) get a great deal on a used Ferrari and know an awesome mechanic who specializes in aging exotics, the Ferrari is very very very hard to justify, even against a crummy Kia.

The Ferrari example is just to show where the logic used will inevitably end up. It will eventually polarize us and do nothing more; either we could buy 3 ninjettes for that price, or why would you put up with a measly ninjette when you can afford a Zero. Granted, the magnitude of example is very different between the Ferrari and the Zero, but see how that works? I think you took that one a little too literally.



FWIW, I would love heated grips. The BMW S1000RR comes with them. Any time it's below 55, I find myself wishing I had heated grips. I do not enjoy just sitting there in the cold. In fact, I really dislike cold. I don't ride in winter either, but chilly hands are stiff and not very good at using controls.

[kdogg2077]

Originally Posted by Brian

I never said I was mad I just see them as being a counterproductive accessory for a motorcycle since your whole body is already.. outside, but maybe I'm wrong. I have never used them, that's all.

Why wouldn't you want heated grips? I don't see the downside to having them.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Lol. This coming from the high schooler. I'm not THAT much older than you but I see it this way; a Ferrari costs as much as my family's house, and we live in a nice suburb. Let's just keep that in perspective. Unless you a) have literally too much money to wipe your butt with or b) get a great deal on a used Ferrari and know an awesome mechanic who specializes in aging exotics, the Ferrari is very very very hard to justify, even against a crummy Kia

I'm not really in high school anymore, and why would that matter? Maybe I know more about cars than you do.. anyways if you have the money to buy and maintain a Ferarri at cost you wouldn't even be carelessly looking at a Kia (how did we get on this topic again?)

It's my opinion on the heated grips, for this bike, being as it is ELECTRIC (lithium batteries don't run to full potential in a cold state) it just doesn't fit. I already find it cheap looking, heated grips and any other little accessories like the 'cool app' to control brakes and such is a little iffy to me. I think most can agree.

I made this thread to get everyone's fresh opinion on the bike not to discuss heated grips which I don't have or ever used just as I don't have or ever used a Zero SR

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

I'm not really in high school anymore, and why would that matter? Maybe I know more about cars than you do.. anyways if you have the money to buy and maintain a Ferarri at cost you wouldn't even be carelessly looking at a Kia (how did we get on this topic again?)

It's my opinion on the heated grips, for this bike, being as it is ELECTRIC (lithium batteries don't run to full potential in a cold state) it just doesn't fit. I already find it cheap looking, heated grips and any other little accessories like the 'cool app' to control brakes and such is a little iffy to me. I think most can agree.

1) The high school part matters. It's not about knowledge of bicycles or cars or airplanes or motorcycles or nuclear fission for that matter. This disconnect you're having with the Ferrari example is more about life experience and priorities and less about the actual cars we're comparing. Forget the cars for right now. The reason I laughed when you said a Ferrari was totally worth it is because you've not had a real job, you've not paid bills, you've not had to put food on your table or had to keep yourself accountable for keeping your house clean and in sound shape. Like it or not, older people don't take younger people seriously. We argue with our hormones instead of our brains due to the fact that we lack life experience. Keep that in mind because that's how people perceive you, like it or not.

2) The fact that the bike is electric means nothing when looking at heated grips. Heated grips draw some power, but it's like 3 Watts. That's minimal. That's like telling me that we should replace every roller in your 520 chain with a ceramic roller bearing. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will it be significant? No. I fail to see why an electric bike should not have heated grips. If you think about it in terms of a gasoline engine, the gas powers the engine, the engine turns the alternator, the alternator powers your electronics. Therefore, all electrical loads in the car relate directly to extra fuel consumption. Ever used an air conditioner in your car? Notice how when you turn it on, the engine revvs a little faster at idle and it feels like you've got an extra 600lbs sitting in the back when you acclerate? That's power loss due to extra electrical (and therefore mechanical) load. Heated grips are the same idea, just less significant.

Battery performance when cold also means nothing. The batteries will heat up with use, and their power output will change with temperature. In fact, at some point the batteries will get hot enough that they need to be cooled. There's an optimum temp range for every battery. It's a real thing that electrical engineers deal with, there's math for estimating all that. I'm positive Zero has taken that into account and that you really don't need to worry about that.

The 'cool app' is very helpful. You can tune everything from throttle response and power consumption to the amount of regenerative braking you want. It's really useful in terms of making the bike feel like a gas powered motorcycle and making it either very sporty or very long range. You know how much adjustment there is in your suspension via spring rates and fluid thicknesses and preload, etc? Imagine if your entire bike and everything about it was that adjustable. That's no gimmick, that's freaking awesome.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

And I'd bet that you've never used heated grips before either. No need to talk **** about something you've never tried. Next thing you'll tell us that gsxr's suck because that's what all the squids ride.

They dont? ****! I was wrong.

[b.miller123]

Originally Posted by Brian

I never said I was mad I just see them as being a counterproductive accessory for a motorcycle since your whole body is already.. outside, but maybe I'm wrong. I have never used them, that's all.

Ever hear of the term "wind chill factor"? Or held your hand out the window of a car and noticed that it gets kinda cold?

Obviously you've never used warmers or ridden a bike when it is actually cold out. So your opinion is pretty close to worthless on the matter. I actually feel sorry for you and your lack of riding experiences. Riding in the pouring rain/bitter cold is something every rider should do at least half a dozen times or more. Get some more seat time and ride all year round and come back here in a year and let us know what you think of heated grips when you try them out in the middle of the winter.

[b.miller123]

And back to the electric bike: every comment that you've made about the worth of the bike or it's practicality has been made about the supersport models made by Ducatis for the last 40 years.

Are they worth what they cost? Depends on who is paying the money. Obviously a LOT of people think so or Ducati would be long gone. Same argument could be made for every motorcycle ever made.

Are they practical transportation? Depends on who owns it and where they live. Same argument could be made for every motorcycle ever made.

Could you get a corolla and half a new R6 for one? Sure, or you could have a $25k piece of sex on wheels, or a trick little electric bike with all kinds of gizmo's and apps that you can recharge with solar panels using free energy FROM THE MOTHER****ING SUN.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

Obviously you've never used warmers or ridden a bike when it is actually cold out. So your opinion is pretty close to worthless on the matter. I actually feel sorry for you and your lack of riding experiences. Riding in the pouring rain/bitter cold is something every rider should do at least half a dozen times or more. Get some more seat time and ride all year round and come back here in a year and let us know what you think of heated grips when you try them out in the middle of the winter.

Whats with all the ignorance man .. this is my first bike and going on my 4th month of riding since I bought it, you may feel sorry for my lack of experience but since you're part of a 250 forum so are most of the riders on it, expect that. just giving my initial impressions.

I didn't know heated grips were so widely praised, I've always had an interest in motorcycles and I've never seen heated grips so when I see them on a bike overpriced and ELECTRIC which shouldn't really be running in colder weather it makes me think "is this really needed?" or is it kind of like a 'sunroof' type / 'heated seats' thing, it just doesn't cut it for me on a motorcycle, ruins the experience? maybe.

I actually took my whole MSF in the pouring rain when it was 40 degrees out, I wouldn't doubt the heated handlebars would have been nice as hell but you can bet for sure I won't be riding in those conditions ever again but for people who have heated grips when you most need them would definitely be nice.

[Samer]

I think this bike is getting closer.

I haven't figured out why the first "affordable" electric bikes were all coming out looking like supermotos. I don't want a supermoto, and I don't want to take it to a dirt track, I might want an electric sport bike for the road. This one is still not quite a sport bike, but it seems to be getting closer to one.

I don't know about you, but style is one of the most important factors for me. If you're all about practicality and saving money, then yeah, it is highly unlikely that you'll get your money back even considering the minimal maintenance costs and fuel savings relative to a conventional bike.

I really don't think that's the issue. I think the people buying these bikes want something different, unique, and environmentally friendly. If the style is right, then the way it makes you feel when riding it or when parking it and just admiring the way it looks makes it all worth it.

When they come out with a proper looking electric sport bike in the $15K to $20K range with ~100+ real world mile range, I think the market will be there.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Samer

...

Yeah. They had the nerve to stick an "R" on there where even the announcer's reinforced "'R' for 'Racing'" when it doesn't even have a windscreen! I'm sorry, but it shouldn't have an R for Racing without so much as a windscreen.

That said, it still looks great and I am excited to see that much advancement for the price this fast. I really want to see a traditional sportbike maker race to be first to dominate this market before a newcomer dominates it.

So who will it be? Kawasaki? Yamaha? Honda? Suzuki? Triumph? Ducati? Aprilia? KTM? Get to work!

[dfox]

^you have seen the Yami e-bike, right?



Not much different than this one style wise, but this is a traditional "sport bike" maker. This is one bike that could come to market in an affordable price range. It may bring me to the electric side, depending on it's price all said and done.

I think they're styled this way on purpose. They're not trying to pass these off as a "sport bike", they're passing them off as an electric bike. Even The Brammo Empulse R which I have seen on a track is not faired, and doesn't have a windscreen. They're aiming at a different segment of the market, at least for now, and it's probably a good move. The people looking for a low-powered, fully faired street bike are buying $3,000 ninja 250's/300's, not $14-15,000+ bikes. The people who want them, want the image of an electric bike. They don't want an electric bike that's covered in plastics and looks like any other faired crotch-rocket out there. It's like the hybrids out there right now. People want something that looks like a hybrid (prius, insight), and the ones styled like regular cars (civic) don't sell as well despite performing just as well, or better, than the others.

[Nny]

Well, since my other half actually has a Zero S, maybe I can contribute to the conversation.

I test rode the Zero DS last year at one of my local dealers and when I got home, I told my other half all about it - regardless of whether or not I thought she was going to listen. Turns out she was. There were a lot of things I mentioned that were key points to her as a new rider. The price tag is hard to swallow but we did the math. I started to go over how much I spend in gas and maintenance and it quickly started to add up for someone who puts on 12k to 18k miles a year. I know she won’t put on that much each year. I mean let’s face it; this isn’t a bike that you would take on a cross country tour or even a 300-400 mile day trip (well it wouldn't be my firt choice in bikes anyway). This is a bike that you take back and forth to work or your local maybe hit your local twisty roads for that quick fix.

There is a CHAdeMo charger you can get installed on the Zero and as it turns out, there are a lot of charge stations in my area. It will take about an hour to charge if we completely drained it (she has the larger battery). We can go out about 100 miles and stop for lunch while it charges up. …. But she isn’t there yet. She is just enjoying the bike as a commuter.

I read from some of you guys that the battery life is a concern. Zero states that the 11.4 (the one she has) will get an expected life of 308,000 miles. What that means is it will run 308,000 miles until the battery only has an 80% charge capactiy. So at 308,000 miles on the bike, instead of the 137 mile potential range, it will be more like 100 miles on a single charge. To me, after that many miles, the cost of ownership really swings in favor of the Zero. Will she see that many miles on the dash in her lifetime? Well, let’s say she does 10k miles a year… 308,000 miles… that’s almost 31 years before she reaches the 80% charge capacity. 31 years of gas, filters, oil, coolant, plugs and hoses that she will never have to buy.

This bike isn’t for everyone. I mean, I love the hum of an I4 or the thump a twin. I love going through the gears. However, as apprehensive as I was about a motor that doesn’t make any sound or require any shifting, after riding the DS and experiencing it for myself, I could see the appeal. It actually got me thinking that I could convert part of the 1 acre lot I live on to a dirt bike track and riding the FX, my neighbors would be none the wiser. Will I get one any time soon? Probably not. I have to pay off my car first. Then I will be on the hunt for a dedicated track bike. We’ll see after that.

I guess my point to this post is that these are worth at least giving it a test ride if you can and there are a lot of other things to consider while looking at these bikes.

P.S. This is my post in the ex ninjette lair. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154383

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by dfox

^you have seen the Yami e-bike, right?

Yes, but as far as I know it is just a concept/show bike at this point to gauge reaction and to see if it forces their competitors to show their cards. It isn't set up for passengers or street in the pics I've seen. There shouldn't be anything stopping them from making different versions including one that's fully faired and I am surprised none of them are showing that.

I know it's going to happen, but they should already be started.

[choneofakind]

Brian I'm still not getting why you seem to have it in your head that an electric bike is limited to warm weather. Did you not hear me say that batteries warm up with use. Please explain your thoughts.

On a side note, you realize that electric and ELECTRIC mean the same thing right? No need to break your shift key.

[choneofakind]

And why do you keep saying that it's overpriced? Where's your data on the cost of parts and production and R&D, etc? I'm sure it's no more over priced than the typical markup on every other product ever made.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Brian I'm still not getting why you seem to have it in your head that an electric bike is limited to warm weather.

In a lot of my electronics, it says in the manual that battery performance may suffer in cold weather. Seems logical that one might think the same thing for anything else battery powered. Is it correct? I gotz no clue.

I would love to have a lil electric pit bike though.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Brian

Whats with all the ignorance man .. this is my first bike and going on my 4th month of riding since I bought it, you may feel sorry for my lack of experience but since you're part of a 250 forum so are most of the riders on it, expect that. just giving my initial impressions.

I didn't know heated grips were so widely praised, I've always had an interest in motorcycles and I've never seen heated grips so when I see them on a bike overpriced and ELECTRIC which shouldn't really be running in colder weather it makes me think "is this really needed?" or is it kind of like a 'sunroof' type / 'heated seats' thing, it just doesn't cut it for me on a motorcycle, ruins the experience? maybe.

I actually took my whole MSF in the pouring rain when it was 40 degrees out, I wouldn't doubt the heated handlebars would have been nice as hell but you can bet for sure I won't be riding in those conditions ever again but for people who have heated grips when you most need them would definitely be nice.

Dude Ignorance? pot calling the kettle black here, put the key board down and read and learn on this forum, so you are no longer ignorant.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

And why do you keep saying that it's overpriced? Where's your data on the cost of parts and production and R&D, etc? I'm sure it's no more over priced than the typical markup on every other product ever made.

Have you heard of Harley Davidson? now that is overpriced.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by csmith12

In a lot of my electronics, it says in the manual that battery performance may suffer in cold weather. Seems logical that one might think the same thing for anything else battery powered. Is it correct? I gotz no clue.

I would love to have a lil electric pit bike though.

If my Iphone gets too hot it shuts off. that must mean the bike will not work in 90+

[Bigballsofpaint]

My heated gloves extend my riding season a ton. Heated grips would be nice in the 40's but under that the outside of your hand will still get cold. Saying that, i would not mind having a bike with heated grips in the least, and from an electric bike i would expect some of those nice electronic creature comforts.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

My heated gloves extend my riding season a ton. Heated grips would be nice in the 40's but under that the outside of your hand will still get cold. Saying that, i would not mind having a bike with heated grips in the least, and from an electric bike i would expect some of those nice electronic creature comforts.

Something to heat my right hand would extend my riding comfort under 60. Broke a thumb and probably broke/fracture the metacarpal bones on my 3rd and 4th finger back in college. So cold weather really cramps my style.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Ya, everyone is different. I was just speaking for myself. Im fine with my normal gloves down to 50, then i run the heated gloves 40-50 (without the heat though, they have more insulation). I turn the heat on under 40. Typically i wont ride under 30 degrees since my lowside on black ice.

Back to the electric bike, i dont really see the need for carrying a passenger. Personally, i would only use it to commute on. It would save the majority of my gas costs, so taking a fun bike out on the weekend, or my touring bike with my gf wouldnt be a big deal. So something light, with decent power, and mileage over 150 on a charge would be great. This way i wouldnt need to charge it everyday, i could wait every 2 days and have a little juice a spare (my commute is 50 miles total) Wind protection for me isnt huge on my commute, i see 60mph at most unless im tooling around. That yamaha looks sweet too. Having a manual trans would be nice though, otherwise it would feel scooterish to me.

[choneofakind]

Batteries do get weak when cold. But when there's a hefty motor running a lot of power to drive something like a motorcycle, the batteries warm up with use. In fact, they'll get right up to operating temp, even when it's cold outside. They operate at a specified voltage, and have some amount of internal resistance. As current is drawn by the motor, V=I*R so R=V/I and P=I^2*R. Power = heat when we're talking about power lost to electrical resistance. So a cold battery will be a little weak initially, but as a load is applied, it will heat due to its internal resistance. I'm not sure of exact numbers for voltage and current required by those motors, but the point is still there. @csmith12, I think the scale is different with an electric vehicle; high voltage motor drawing a lot of current vs much smaller demands with other electronics.

FWIW, while your car battery may be a little weak in cold temps when you crank your car, it's the really hot days that damage your battery. For example, Tesla has an entire liquid cooling system for the batteries in their Model S to keep them from getting unevenly warm during use and causing damage to individual battery cells. That way, the heat is distributed and the overall temp is lower.

[b.miller123]

Originally Posted by Brian

Whats with all the ignorance man .. this is my first bike and going on my 4th month of riding since I bought it, you may feel sorry for my lack of experience but since you're part of a 250 forum so are most of the riders on it, expect that. just giving my initial impressions.

I didn't know heated grips were so widely praised, I've always had an interest in motorcycles and I've never seen heated grips so when I see them on a bike overpriced and ELECTRIC which shouldn't really be running in colder weather it makes me think "is this really needed?" or is it kind of like a 'sunroof' type / 'heated seats' thing, it just doesn't cut it for me on a motorcycle, ruins the experience? maybe.

I actually took my whole MSF in the pouring rain when it was 40 degrees out, I wouldn't doubt the heated handlebars would have been nice as hell but you can bet for sure I won't be riding in those conditions ever again but for people who have heated grips when you most need them would definitely be nice.

Yep, I was ignorant to your exact riding experience. I know what kind of forum this is. Now I know that you have four months under your belt and i am no longer ignorant to that fact. If I would have known how green you actually are, I would have said the same thing. I feel sorry for your lack of experiences. That isn't a put-down. That me telling you that riding isn't all about sunny and dry days. Get out on your bike, ride it every damn day. Drop the thing, pick it back up and ride it. Go make some mistakes and learn from them. Maybe you won't have such a narrow outlook on riding. Experience tends to broaden your outlook on life in general.

You have four months of riding experience and have started a tread where you bash on electric bikes, something you apparently know very little about. I hope you learn something from that.

[b.miller123]

Originally Posted by Samer

I think this bike is getting closer.

I haven't figured out why the first "affordable" electric bikes were all coming out looking like supermotos. I don't want a supermoto, and I don't want to take it to a dirt track, I might want an electric sport bike for the road. This one is still not quite a sport bike, but it seems to be getting closer to one.

I don't know about you, but style is one of the most important factors for me. If you're all about practicality and saving money, then yeah, it is highly unlikely that you'll get your money back even considering the minimal maintenance costs and fuel savings relative to a conventional bike.

I really don't think that's the issue. I think the people buying these bikes want something different, unique, and environmentally friendly. If the style is right, then the way it makes you feel when riding it or when parking it and just admiring the way it looks makes it all worth it.

When they come out with a proper looking electric sport bike in the $15K to $20K range with ~100+ real world mile range, I think the market will be there.

I think they are going with the naked style bike for a couple reasons:

Less cost. You don't have to spend money on fairings if you can make the parts look half way decent.

They are marketing them to the urban rider. You don't need a windscreen and full fairing when you spend the majority of your time under 45mph, and you'll probably drop it more often, so fairings are generally a liability vs a commodity. The dirt versions for obvious reasons.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

You have four months of riding experience and have started a tread where you bash on electric bikes, something you apparently know very little about. I hope you learn something from that.

Haha sorry to say but there's no right answer here. Looks like you're also being a little narrow minded not letting me interpret my opinion. I have already said why I'm "bashing" them; I think they strip away most of what we know and love from riding a motorcycle and on top of that they have a lot of technology one might not need which is more of an accessory.. not mentioning the unappealing price-tag of a base-model economical CAR. Don't get me wrong but I don't need a college degree to know that.

Why haven't you gave your opinion on the bike yet?! I can see you're one for the heated grips.. do you often ride in the colder weather?

Originally Posted by choneofakind

And why do you keep saying that it's overpriced? Where's your data on the cost of parts and production and R&D, etc? I'm sure it's no more over priced than the typical markup on every other product ever made.

'Overpriced' compared to what you can buy from a bike as powerful as it (like a 600) While they may not be in the same class range, that's all we can compare it to because it still is a motorcycle.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

technology one might not need which is more of an accessory..

• Traction control because our right hands suck
• wheelie control because both our hands suck
• launch control because both our hands and our right foot sucks
• power modes because our brain sucks and we buy too much bike
• LED or HID headlighting because a basic halogen is all you really need to see
• high performance exhaust systems because moar power
• radios because the engine is not enough
• slipper clutches because our left hand sucks
• incredible tires that no one can use to their potential with average skill
• hydraulic clutch lever because it hurts to pull a stiff cable actuated one
• ABS because we suck at judging the road conditions
• GPS because we can't tell where we're going

All technology that many production bikes have and dont need and are just accessories. Yet they all make the bike better in some way, whether it's convenience or safety net or comfort or whatever.

Originally Posted by Brian

not mentioning the unappealing price-tag of a base-model economical CAR. Don't get me wrong but I don't need a college degree to know that.

• Ducati Panigale
• Ducati Minigale
• Ducati... well any Ducati really
• Kawi ZX10R
• Kawi ZX6R
• Kawi ZX14
• Kawi Concourse
• Honda Goldwing
• Honda CBR1000RR
• Honda CBR600RR
• Suzuki GSXR1000
• Suzuki GSXR600
• Yami FJR
• Yami R1
• Yami R6
• BMWS1000RR
• BMW K1600GT (or whatever)

A few examples of very common motorcycles that, when new, cost as much as a base-model new, lightly used in great condition, or even a very nicely equipped car. For goodness sake, a BMWS1000RR starts at what, 18,000 and a Goldwing starts at just under 24,000. How many of both of those bikes have been sold? Tons.

You're thinking small and missing the point. It's not about your academic education, it'a about how you are perceived based on how you come across. You're arguing with the attitude of something to the effect of, 'I don't like it, therefore it's dumb'. Growing up isn't just about learning more about physical things in an academic way. It's about growing from experience. I'm really not flaming you or being a jerkoff here, I promise. I'm being honest from a viewpoint that's not too far from your own to relate.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

'Overpriced' compared to what you can buy from a bike as powerful as it (like a 600) While they may not be in the same class range, that's all we can compare it to because it still is a motorcycle.

apples and oranges.

The 600cc class has been around for a long time. The improvements made each year are tiny; mostly tweaks and small improvements. For the most part, their R&D costs are small because they already have the tooling and machining down. They already have suppliers lined up and a production line ready to start cranking out new bikes. Basically, it's cheap money for them.

Electric bikes are new. yes, they have the same obstacles as the gas bikes as far as physically building the bike goes. That's where the similarity ends. Notice how many times battery and motor capability has been mentioned in this thread? What about how much people talk about charging time and battery lifespan? These are all things that are new and need improvement and are not cheap to improve. It's the equivalent of what Automakers went through in the early 1900's when trying to make a reliable gasoline engine that didn't kill anyone and didn't stop running. It's a TON of R&D and lots of trial and error. Don't forget how much software is involved with these bikes. It's all software; like you said, there's an app that controls every aspect of this bike. Software has bugs, software takes time to make and countless iterations to get perfect and without glitches. If you want to know more about software, chat with alex.s, it's what he does for a living. Time and labor and innovation costs money. That means that Zero has a huge amount of expenses because of their R&D and has to price their products higher to make profit. When you pay 'too much' for an electric bike, you're paying for all the R&D that went into making that product what it is, not just the physical manufacturing of that motorcycle with minimal changes every 3 years.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Brian

Haha sorry to say but there's no right answer here. Looks like you're also being a little narrow minded not letting me interpret my opinion. I have already said why I'm "bashing" them; I think they strip away most of what we know and love from riding a motorcycle and on top of that they have a lot of technology one might not need which is more of an accessory.. not mentioning the unappealing price-tag of a base-model economical CAR. Don't get me wrong but I don't need a college degree to know that.

Why haven't you gave your opinion on the bike yet?! I can see you're one for the heated grips.. do you often ride in the colder weather?



'Overpriced' compared to what you can buy from a bike as powerful as it (like a 600) While they may not be in the same class range, that's all we can compare it to because it still is a motorcycle.

sorry bro, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

• Traction control because our right hands suck
• wheelie control because both our hands suck
• launch control because both our hands and our right foot sucks
• power modes because our brain sucks and we buy too much bike
• LED or HID headlighting because a basic halogen is all you really need to see
• high performance exhaust systems because moar power
• radios because the engine is not enough
• slipper clutches because our left hand sucks
• incredible tires that no one can use to their potential with average skill
• hydraulic clutch lever because it hurts to pull a stiff cable actuated one
• ABS because we suck at judging the road conditions
• GPS because we can't tell where we're going

All technology that many production bikes have and dont need and are just accessories. Yet they all make the bike better in some way, whether it's convenience or safety net or comfort or whatever.

• Ducati Panigale
• Ducati Minigale
• Ducati... well any Ducati really
• Kawi ZX10R
• Kawi ZX6R
• Kawi ZX14
• Kawi Concourse
• Honda Goldwing
• Honda CBR1000RR
• Honda CBR600RR
• Suzuki GSXR1000
• Suzuki GSXR600
• Yami FJR
• Yami R1
• Yami R6
• BMWS1000RR
• BMW K1600GT (or whatever)

A few examples of very common motorcycles that, when new, cost as much as a base-model new, lightly used in great condition, or even a very nicely equipped car. For goodness sake, a BMWS1000RR starts at what, 18,000 and a Goldwing starts at just under 24,000. How many of both of those bikes have been sold? Tons.

Maybe I'm just having a hard time accepting what the future is turning in to. Do you guys really want motorcycles to go full electric? Automatic?! Clutch-less AND shiftless?! I sure don't, and that's probably why I dislike it so much. Within my couple months of riding and always wanting a manual car that's just half the fun of the control and freedom aspect to the machine. I wouldn't doubt the bike would still be fun as hell though.

Technology in the way things are designed will always be advancing, as with everything else. I STILL do think this bike isn't worth the money, and I don't care if I'm the only one who thinks that.. I just don't think you're getting your money's worth, and this is obviously based off what I've seen from reviews, comparisons to other bikes. I haven't test drove this bike, so it's not my final verdict, you guys should know that.

How can you compare this to a big tourer machine like the Goldwing? You're getting so much more motorcycle for the money. And an S1000RR isn't 18k they're 15k. Tesla's are priced right in my book, it's a luxury sporty-ish automobile, with leaping technological breakthroughs that have changed the way we look at a car.

Originally Posted by alex.s

sorry bro, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Who are you to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about? My opinion to what makes my motorcycle experience is a lot different than yours, so there's no right or wrong answer here..


I think if I can change the title of the thread to 'Would you buy' to 'Is it actually worth the money' it would be more fitting because everyone's view and personal wealth has an effect on this.

I just don't see 18 grand+ here, maybe the battery is made of pure gold?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Brian

Who are you to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about?

someone who knows a lot more about the subject than you do.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by alex.s

someone who has been riding bikes a lot longer than you have.

Originally Posted by alex.s

someone who knows a lot more about the subject than you do.

That sounds a little self centered, does it not? My opinion to what makes my motorcycle experience is a lot different than yours, so there's no right or wrong answer here.. doesn't matter how long you've been on a bike.

[alex.s]

no. there is a right and wrong. and you are wrong.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by alex.s

no. there is a right and wrong. and you are wrong.

Why did you edit what you originally said? It sounded selfish, did it not?

[alex.s]

i edited it because i know lots of people who have been riding a very long time and don't know what they are talking about. so i edited it for accuracy.

[Brian]

So you're telling me there's a right and a wrong to what makes up my enjoyment of riding? I like the sound of my engine pulling, my exhaust screaming.. the freedom and speed of an open road, and the control that I have from being the pilot of my bike. do you think otherwise

[tfkrocks]

You have a very narrow minded view of what is great about motorcycling.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

You have a very narrow minded view of what is great about motorcycling.

I'm trying my best not to be narrow minded as long as I can hold my own opinion about purchasing this bike. You guys are just denying me with no evidence to back that up, what is YOUR view and enjoyment of riding?