Need to crush your ego? Ride a liter bike!

[CycleCam303]

My buddy ducati Dave is suffering through some medical issues and is on the equivalent of a chemo therapy treatment. He doesn't have the strength to ride his bikes. He asked me to start em and run the 996 through the gears since it hasn't moved in months.

It's been some time since I've first rode a bike like this and I know I tease and make fun of the 250. Here's my perspective after revisiting riding a an old superbike with 10 months of the ninja 250.

Warning this probably will be long. But I guarantee it'll be interesting.

This bike has been geared down significantly. While stunters like it for easy wheelies, it makes this bike much more fun and easier to ride. Before I got off the clutch the bike was doing just over 30 mph in 1st. Now I can sorta lug the thing in 2nd at 35 mph. Getting around the gas station and the neighborhood was a drama free affair. I don't know if its because of the recently installed slipper clutch or it being an older transmission design but I gave up trying to get the bike in neutral at stops. It had to be rolling for it to go in and it has gp shift so I was just getting frustrated with it.

That's what's funny about the bike. It was instant speed adjustment. On the ninjette around town I get to 4th around 35 mph cruising. This bike. I'm putt putting the motor at that speed in 2nd. Don't worry about getting a bigger bike and revving it out like the 250. As I pulled out onto the main road with a 45 mph speed limit, it was a 1st 2nd, hold onto second till about 5k rpms then roll off as the speedo needle swings passed 55. I think I just threw it into 3rd and that was all it took to realize that after 3k rpms the ninja 250 power wasnt on the same page as the Duc. After 5k rpms the throttle inputs can start teleporting you ahead.

The eronomics are down right extreme. It has aftermarket rearsets and coupled with the short very low set clip ons make you feel like you're straddling a missile. This bike has a much more aggressive position than any modern supersport. It made me feel like real racer... and a tad ridiculous. I'm a midget so it wasnt uncomfortable but the bars are set too low. With my arms straight and locked the gas tank and my chest was about five inches apart. Like I said its extreme. The bike is older so its heavy at 460ish lbs. It carries its weight well and didn't feel cumbersome when moving it around at stoplights and the gas station.

Recall how I said the Duc simply operates at a higher performance realm. That's the best way to briefly describe what it's like trying to have fun with it. As I pulled out of the gas station and headed towards marsh creek road I started revving it out. It's fast. Not crazy fast. It felt like the r6 I rode just with a powerband starting at 6k and not letting off until slamming into the brutal rev limit at 10.5k. O and it oozed torque. It didnt take long before I was hurling down the road at 110-115 mph and thinking I better test the brakes before holding this thing wide open much longer. Brakes were great, but not as powerful as I was expecting. More on that later. On this stretch on my ninja 250 I cruise at spirited paces around 75-80 mph. The Duc wasnt even breaking a sweat at those speeds. It wasnt the power alone. It was the whole package that makes it so comfy going way too fast on a 45 mph two lane road. Remember that.

Marsh creek is a fast road. Lots of visible sweeping turns connected by longer straights. I crest over the hill with the throttle stabbed. The front floats partially over the top and settles without a shimmy as I blast towards the corner at 8k rpms. I let off the throttle to go to the brakes and I touch the brakes realizing I've already scrubbed off too much speed. Getting off the gas on this bike is like throwing out an anchor. Seriously it was surprising how important throttle inputs became. Rolling off and on and following Keith codes rules are friggin paramount on this bike. If you chopped the throttle mid corner cranked over, you would run wide for a bit or just plain old over load the front tire and die.

Corner speed? No I roll on the throttle and the bike is actually fighting to stand up. That was a foriegn feeling. The ninja 250 doesn't stand up really under hard acceleration. The Duc squats a bit and ejects towards the outside. I click off a few 9k up shifts as the bike is well past 120 on the speedo. I jump on the brakes for the high speed right hand sweeper. On the 250 I hang off on this corner and can hit it at 70mph. This road is bumpy so while I could go faster its a little sketchy getting bucked around. The Duc didn't exhibit any of the wallow and I actually felt like I was going a bit slow mid corner speed wise. I charged up the hill for the left right sweepers. Going through those made me feel pathetic. The high rearsets left what felt like 10ft of clearance between my knee and the ground. I was thinking too myself..."can I actually go that much faster?" The bike steers weird too. Don't plan on changing directions mid corner. O and that power steering technique all the riding books talk about? Yea you need that for this bike. It's extremely stable but getting the thing to move actually had me wrenching on the bars. I get all the videos off people crashing in sweepers on these bikes. The 250 can adjust line pretty easily. The 996 was all about commitment. I rocket down the hill keeping the bike on boil above 7k the rest of the ride. Yea fuel economy is horrible. Something like 27 mpg when riding her hard.

I got back to Dave's place glad to park the thing. Holy hell two termignonis roasting you to death sucks. He asked me what I thought and I mostly told him what I said here.

I thought about it some more and I must say it was a humbling experience. This is an old bike and I can say I came no where near its limits. It felt like learning how to ride again. The extra focus and things that I never worry about on the 250 became very visceral out there.

The performance gap of this bike compared to the 250 is MASSIVE. It says a lot when I jump on a bike I've ridden once before and comfortably swing it up to 130+ and brake hard into the corners. And when I say comfortable I mean it. If it was my bike I would've gone faster through the corners. And that's part of what is so scary and eye opening. If @rojoracing53 had ridden this bike he would be going so damn fast it would be terrifying.

I would've been happier at a track trying to figure it out. When bringing it to a fun pace the bike feels like a handful and so much more capable than my skill set and experience. Feel free to judge me but technically speaking today is the fastest I've gone on two wheels. The 250 is fun because on marsh creek road I'm wide open, hard on the brakes, and barely breaking a sweat, and never 100 mph. It's easy to ride it at the upper limits. The 996 was this beast with limits that are so high. I bet the margin of error is super tiny at those speeds. And just think today's 600s are supposed to be even more capable than an older ducati.

No. I'm not going to preach that the ninja 250 is the end all be all bike. The ninja 250 gave me the ultimate learning base. A lot of people write off everything else except the latest and greatest. There something to be said about appreciating 15 year old technology.

[Alex]

Your posts are like Jekyl and Hyde. Sometimes you seem to have it all together (like these). Other times (like this thread, and like this one) I'm convinced you're an accident waiting to happen.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Alex

Your posts are like Jekyl and Hyde. Sometimes you seem to have it all together. Other times I'm convinced you're an accident waiting to happen.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

My buddy ducati Dave...

If it was my bike I would've gone faster through the corners. And that's part of what is so scary and eye opening. If @rojoracing53 had ridden this bike he would be going so damn fast it would be terrifying...

you should just have his babies already, I think you mention him in every other post even when not necessary.

back on topic and what I gathered from your small book.

Ducati 996 = quick and fast
Ninja250 = not very quick, and not very fast

Mind blown

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

..........Marsh creek is a fast road. Lots of visible sweeping turns connected by longer straights. I crest over the hill with the throttle stabbed. The front floats partially over the top and settles without a shimmy as I blast towards the corner at 8k rpms. I let off the throttle to go to the brakes and I touch the brakes realizing I've already scrubbed off too much speed. Getting off the gas on this bike is like throwing out an anchor. Seriously it was surprising how important throttle inputs became. Rolling off and on and following Keith codes rules are friggin paramount on this bike. If you chopped the throttle mid corner cranked over, you would run wide for a bit or just plain old over load the front tire and die..........

I like your style of writing, Cameron !!!

Good article; thanks

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by subxero

you should just have his babies already, I think you mention him in every other post even when not necessary.

back on topic and what I gathered from your small book.

Ducati 996 = quick and fast
Ninja250 = not very quick, and not very fast

Mind blown

Ouch. As I've gained more experience I find it amazing how capable a bike like this is, considering how many people ride bikes with similar performance on the street. It's a lot of bike. The 250 is great because its easy to ride. I never realized the nuances of the faster bikes. That's all.

[subxero]

don't take it personal... it's Monday morning and I needed my dose of being an *** I fully understand the concepts you were getting at and can see how a person who has never ridden a bike like that would not think it would be much different.

But seriously when's the wedding?

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I like your style of writing, Cameron !!!

Good article; thanks

Thanks hernan. I appreciate it.

@Alex you've ridden with me before. Actually you've towed me around a couple of times as a matter of fact. I ride in my limits and comfort zone. I didn't intend to make it seem like I'm on a death mission. In fact I felt way under the capacity of the Duc. I opened it up in places I felt safe and my cornering speeds were pretty pathetic. It's an awkward steering sensation.

I don't want people getting hurt or doing stupid stunts. I just did my best to describe things I noticed. With too many details. With the gearing changes who knows how far off that speedo was.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Thanks hernan. I appreciate it.....

I really believe that @csmith12 (Chris) has a serious writing contender here in Ninjette (even with a messed up pinky).

I honestly appreciate your article because it is a first hand feeling of what those obscene machines are.

I have never had that opportunity and experience you have had, mine has been limited to Super Sport 600s', which I dislike, not understanding the need for so much power for street riding.

[csmith12]

I was asked recently to do a write up on a KTM RC8 via a pm. Given some time, I can add it to this thread as an additional perspective. It wasn't my first time on a liter bike but it was my first time on a liter bike "at pace" on the track.

[Joshorilla]

Good write up, don't worry, some 250 owners get pissy when you imply other machines are faster or better in any way.

[7oxSin]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

Good write up, don't worry, some 250 owners get pissy when you imply other machines are faster or better in any way.

faster, meh
better, meh

i just point out that i get 70-somthing miles per gallon and only spent a grand, most people at that point look at their 6000$-14,000$ bike and have that look, you know the one...

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Thanks hernan. I appreciate it.

@Alex you've ridden with me before. Actually you've towed me around a couple of times as a matter of fact. I ride in my limits and comfort zone.

I'm sorry Cam; I didn't put enough context in my post. The feeling on my end is more worry than annoyance, anger, or anything else. You're a quick learner, and have very good bike control skills. In just about any street ride, you can choose to ride at or near the front of almost any group. If there are those where you can't, I really do question whether it's a group ride that anyone should really be risking.

You're quite interested and focused in improving your own skills, but in some of your posts, things come through that make me think you're not fully processing the risks you are taking. Sliding the front on the street. Backing the rear and hoping the front sticks. "Showing people a wheel" on street rides. Having the front end get light on roads like Marsh creek while riding an unfamiliar bike at triple-digit speeds. None of these mean instant harm. But each one has a certain level of risk. Keep rolling that dice, and at some point the odds catch up with everyone. I fully buy into the threads/posts where you describe the differences between track-riding aggression, and street riding where you need to leave enough margin for as many contingencies as possible. It's threads like these where it's hard to tell how fully you buy into them.

[Panda]

^That's a pretty great post.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Alex

But each one has a certain level of risk. Keep rolling that dice, and at some point the odds catch up with everyone. I fully buy into the threads/posts where you describe the differences between track-riding aggression, and street riding where you need to leave enough margin for as many contingencies as possible. It's threads like these where it's hard to tell how fully you buy into them.

This kind of stuff gets under my skin a bit. By riding a bike, period, even with gear and being as defensive of a rider as is humanly possible you are exposing yourself to far more risk than if you were traveling in a car.

This is the same thing as people who are against bikes saying "you're doing something too risky" by riding a motorcycle. In turn, the motorcyclist is saying to someone else "you're doing things that are too risky"


Ride and let ride imo...

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Sinister

This kind of stuff gets under my skin a bit. By riding a bike, period, even with gear and being as defensive of a rider as is humanly possible you are exposing yourself to far more risk than if you were traveling in a car.

This is the same thing as people who are against bikes saying "you're doing something too risky" by riding a motorcycle. In turn, the motorcyclist is saying to someone else "you're doing things that are too risky"


Ride and let ride imo...

Not sure riding defensively on the street and exceeding triple digits on the street falls into the same risk category.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Panda

Not sure riding defensively on the street and exceeding triple digits on the street falls into the same risk category.

+1

[Sinister]

According to:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pre...+Motorcyclists


paticularly this quote:

In 2011, 4,612 motorcyclists died on America's roads, a 2 percent increase over those killed in 2010. In 2011, motorcycle deaths comprised 14 percent of total highway deaths, despite motorcycle registrations representing only about 3 percent of all vehicles in the country.

On a per vehicle mile basis, motorcyclists are more than 30 times more likely to die in a crash than occupants of cars, and five times more likely to be injured.



I would put forth that simply being on a motorcycle increases your risk far more than blasting to triple digits on a clear stretch on occation.



edit:forgot part of the quote

[Bigballsofpaint]

i guess i would have to agree on a lot of aspects here and its why i rarely post concerning my 1000. Its not even an SS, rojo has ridden one (jiggles had one), but the power between it and the 250 cant be compared. I still have my 250, it just doesnt get much use anymore. I typically see triple digit speeds once everytime i ride (almost daily), on a certain stretch of road that i feel completely confident on. In reality, that 100mph isnt even the top of 3rd gear, and only take about 7 seconds to achieve from a dead stop. Its just........easy. I also typcially take a 35mph uphill S turn at 60-70, comfortably. I love my 250 but theres nothing like exiting a turn, giving a twist and the bike just pulling you.

As he said though, the 1000 is surely above my capabilites, the 250 is as well. I also cant ride my 1000 like my 250, i would be breaking the law and putting myself at risk almost every moment.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sinister

According to:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pre...+Motorcyclists

The same article explains that many fatalities were associated to lack of helmet, impairment due to alcohol and night riding.

I am not trying to say that we are as protected from injuries as cagers are, but I could add that:

1) Age and gender are important factors as well: lack of experience and excess of testosterone are a common factor in most motorcycling accidents.

2) Many accidents resulting in injured or dead motorcyclists are induced by drivers.

IMHO, stupidity, overconfidence, lack of attention and speed kill and injure more people than motorcycles by themselves.


....Now, trying to bring this good thread back to its origins, I quote Keith Code:

"Force, like immortality and Nirvana, is fascinating stuff. In racing, the guy who controls it best for the day wins. Top racers carry, each in his own way, personal force and it is visible in their style and conduct. At race time there is an intensity and energy present on the starting line quite different from normal life. Riders are in their own special preparatory frame of mind--to do what?: To control and confront Force. In street riding, a good rider is simply someone who can determine potential Forces or Force generating situations which would be contrary to his survival, for example; a new rider incorrectly sees dozens of cars in an urban traffic situation whereas an experienced one sees only those who are most likely to get him. New racers try for maximum braking Force, the veteran goes for cornering speed Force; the first takes little skill the second requires much.
.....To use Force of any kind one must have a definite location to apply it from. The fun and challenge of a turn starts at your Turn Point. Begin finding Turn Points in your every day riding and move out of the ranks of sinners and onto the path of enlightenment. In our cult, being seduced by force is the ultimate salvation and once you see the light on Turn Points the gods of Force will smile on you. Uncontrolled force will blow your focus on riding and the result is fear. In fact, fear could be defined as: Expecting an uncontrollable force will act against you. Fun is: Predicting and successfully controlling force. Turn Points allow you to predict all eleven of the above important decisions........"

Copied from this article:
Cult of Force

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The same article explains that many fatalities were associated to lack of helmet, impairment due to alcohol and night riding.

I am not trying to say that we are as protected from injuries as cagers are, but I could add that:

1) Age and gender are important factors as well: lack of experience and excess of testosterone are a common factor in most motorcycling accidents.

2) Many accidents resulting in injured or dead motorcyclists are induced by drivers.

IMHO, stupidity, overconfidence, lack of attention and speed kill and injure more people than motorcycles by themselves.

I won't disagree with that at all. I'm simply pointing out that just as other people judge motorcyclists for an activity that is inherently more dangerous than a car, motorcyclists have a tendency to judge other riders for activities that are, indeed, more dangerous.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Sinister

According to:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pre...+Motorcyclists


paticularly this quote:

In 2011, 4,612 motorcyclists died on America's roads, a 2 percent increase over those killed in 2010. In 2011, motorcycle deaths comprised 14 percent of total highway deaths, despite motorcycle registrations representing only about 3 percent of all vehicles in the country.

On a per vehicle mile basis, motorcyclists are more than 30 times more likely to die in a crash than occupants of cars, and five times more likely to be injured.



I would put forth that simply being on a motorcycle increases your risk far more than blasting to triple digits on a clear stretch on occation.



edit:forgot part of the quote

Just because motorcycling is inherently risky doesn't mean it's not prudent to try to mitigate risk where applicable.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by subxero

don't take it personal... it's Monday morning and I needed my dose of being an *** I fully understand the concepts you were getting at and can see how a person who has never ridden a bike like that would not think it would be much different.

But seriously when's the wedding?

Dude Camerons man crush is totally out of control

[greenmachine]

You evaluated riding a Ducati and you didn't mention the sound???

[subxero]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Dude Camerons man crush is totally out of control

who knows, maybe its warranted, I have never met you

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Sinister

I would put forth that simply being on a motorcycle increases your risk far more than blasting to triple digits on a clear stretch on occation.

I don't think there's many here who would disagree with that statement. I certainly don't. But I don't think that was my point, either. Motorcycling long-term is a risk management exercise, like any other activity that has some chance of some pretty bad outcomes. One of our choices is to participate or not. Once we've made that decision, we make an unending number of choices that continue to move that risk needle. Riding at 120 mph while splitting lanes while standing on the seat while wearing flip-flops while texting while intoxicated, would represent a certain level of risk. Riding fully-geared up nearer the speed of traffic with appropriate experience and training would represent a different level of risk.

You're right, a non-motorcyclist might put both of those categories in one large bucket of "damn motorcyclists are going to get themselves killed". But I think we know better, and we don't have to be so limited in our views. It's also not necessarily about defining for someone else what's appropriate risk and what's not. You hope that people get enough good information and experience to make those choices for themselves, but that's not always the case. Sites like this can help.

I'm seeing a disconnect in how the OP's articulates his risk tolerance, and some of the things he is classifying as leaving plenty of margin and always riding within his limits. Seemed that this was an appropriate place to discuss it.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by subxero

who knows, maybe its warranted, I have never met you

[gantt]

Your on a ducati, you'll be fine.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Alex

I don't think there's many here who would disagree with that statement. I certainly don't. But I don't think that was my point, either. Motorcycling long-term is a risk management exercise, like any other activity that has some chance of some pretty bad outcomes. One of our choices is to participate or not. Once we've made that decision, we make an unending number of choices that continue to move that risk needle. Riding at 120 mph while splitting lanes while standing on the seat while wearing flip-flops while texting while intoxicated, would represent a certain level of risk. Riding fully-geared up nearer the speed of traffic with appropriate experience and training would represent a different level of risk.

You're right, a non-motorcyclist might put both of those categories in one large bucket of "damn motorcyclists are going to get themselves killed". But I think we know better, and we don't have to be so limited in our views. It's also not necessarily about defining for someone else what's appropriate risk and what's not. You hope that people get enough good information and experience to make those choices for themselves, but that's not always the case. Sites like this can help.

I'm seeing a disconnect in how the OP's articulates his risk tolerance, and some of the things he is classifying as leaving plenty of margin and always riding within his limits. Seemed that this was an appropriate place to discuss it.

Fair and fair...




To participate in the original topic:

I went straight from a totaled 250 on the last ride of the season to my first ride of the following season being on my 14. I can't even begin to describe the difference and it literally took years before the 14 and I were on the same page. even now I'm not putting the bike anywhere near it's potential but it's really nice to have a bike that just continues to grow with you.

Also, there is no way I would have survived without learning on the 250 first.

[parox91]

and I thought 105 was fast.

If I crash, the R6 will be the end of me.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by subxero

who knows, maybe its warranted, I have never met you

Yeah I'm not that cute and I don't live that close to San Fransico. I think Cameron is moving to down town S.F. so I'm sure he'll find someone better soon.

[fishdip]

And for the ppl who want to crush there egos in a more simple way just call your self jiggles.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Alex

I'm sorry Cam; I didn't put enough context in my post. The feeling on my end is more worry than annoyance, anger, or anything else. You're a quick learner, and have very good bike control skills. In just about any street ride, you can choose to ride at or near the front of almost any group. If there are those where you can't, I really do question whether it's a group ride that anyone should really be risking.

You're quite interested and focused in improving your own skills, but in some of your posts, things come through that make me think you're not fully processing the risks you are taking. Sliding the front on the street. Backing the rear and hoping the front sticks. "Showing people a wheel" on street rides. Having the front end get light on roads like Marsh creek while riding an unfamiliar bike at triple-digit speeds. None of these mean instant harm. But each one has a certain level of risk. Keep rolling that dice, and at some point the odds catch up with everyone. I fully buy into the threads/posts where you describe the differences between track-riding aggression, and street riding where you need to leave enough margin for as many contingencies as possible. It's threads like these where it's hard to tell how fully you buy into them.

It's just Cam's way with words I think because it's hard to imagine him going as fast and extreme as he describes. What he's doing is taking a couple small occurrences and depicting in fine detail what he felt or thought he felt. What I find funny is how super sport riders going as fast as him won't feel 25% of what he's trying to monitor so you seldom hear them talk about such things. On the other hand you always hear a SS rider tell you how they "totally" power slid the rear end out of that one corner(when what they really felt tire flex or chassis compression) but Cam never says anything about burning the rear. Sure he blows it a bit out of proportion buts that's what people like to read and it take something described a bit over the top and in detail for the reader to grasp the situation.

There's always the alternative of reading my description. Yeah the duc felt a lot faster, seems to corner good, it was very stable but hard to transition, brakes were decent but could be stronger. and oh the sound was glorious "the end"

On the other hand I've never ridden with him while he's on a real bike so maybe he really is totally out of control. I don't worry about Cam not taking things serious to often but I basing that off my own opinion and If you have to worry about anyone having near life threatening experiences and shrugging them off like mere everyday occurrences then you should be worried about me.

The guys doing extreme sports everyday ether don't grasp the risk, accept the risk or simply place less value on life then others(you live more in 5 mins at 200mph then other do in a lifetime) I'd like to believe I'm the second but worry I'm the first or third.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Bikes these days drive themselves. With all the technological advances and all. No need to discuss anything.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Bikes these days drive themselves. With all the technological advances and all. No need to discuss anything.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Bikes these days drive themselves. With all the technological advances and all. No need to discuss anything.

What about ones from the last millennium, such as the Ducati 996?

[csmith12]

It was a strangely hot September afternoon... 107 degrees in the shade. It was a day I had been waiting for all year, customer appreciation day at Mid-Ohio. Everyone rides the day for free and everyone is in a great mood. I am out on the rShizzle (R6) dicing it up with my fellow track ho's. There is nothing better than being at the track than to be with about 20+ friends and fellow fast riders (no n00bs, ie. just green track time with no real sessions). The weather is HOT with stupid high humidity. Hot enough to ditch the tire warmers and feel the need to dip into the second gallon of water I have in the cooler. Some of my fellow riders have popped a few tylenol to deal with the headaches that come with with riding in such conditions. The air conditioned trailer is our oasis amidst the concrete and constant sun.

I am running Q2's for the day. They have served me well but today is different. I am slipping and sliding all over the place. Between the air temp, track temp and my pace they are starting to feel greesey. I need new tires badly but it's sooooo hot, I don't really feel like changing tires. My friend Eric offers up an alternative. "Why don't you head down to garage 4 and ride a KTM". I say "HELL YEA!"
After my 4th session of the day on the R6, I hear over the intercom “Attention advanced riders, attention advanced riders…. If you would like the chance to ride a KTM RC8 please report to garage #4”. I thought… meh, I will pass. I didn’t come to ride parade laps around the track, I gotz skeelz to be workin’ on and I am having a great day. After my next session my buddy Eric (control rider & riding coach) tells me to “Get over to garage #4 STAT!” I ask him why? And he tells me, your gunna ride one of the KTM’s and we are NOT doing parade laps. Needless to say, I busted ass to get over there.

After 35mins, I hear the 5min call for my 2:20 session along with a “KTM riders report to garage #4”. So off to garage 4 I go.... They check that I am on the list, I am “Chris” and I am in the A group. After the formalities, a control rider says “wait here” and walks around the next garage. He pushes out a fully race prepped 2012 RC8r, orange and black, fully gassed up and ready to roll with freshly mounted Q2’s. Not my tire of choice this day but whatever… I was just glad to be able to ride one.

The control rider reviews some things with me;
tires are at 29/29psi HOT,
suspension is set up for 190lbs
shift pattern is standard
DON’T WAD IT UP

GO!

And he walks away. I turn the key, hold the front brake and hit the start button. The sound of the twin is intoxicating and the vibrations felt through just about every part of the bike sends me back to my HD riding days but this is kinda different. Before I even put it in gear I try to find a seating position that I can initially live with. The bike is not too narrow, it’s not too wide and feels about the same as the R6 except more rigid. Maybe the rigid feel was from still being nearly brand new, after all… it still had that new bike smell about it. After spending a minute or two looking at the controls and dash, I drop it in gear and get to hot pit in the lineup. Sure enough, I forget to strap my helmet and have to take off my gloves to handle that. Sitting straight up is when I really felt the hard ass race seat they had put on. I thought for sure, this is gunna give me too much feedback. Helmet and gloves secured, I finally get the green flag to enter the track. I drop it into first and feel a slight jolt and know she wants to go. The clutch is butter smooth and super easy to pull because of the hydraulic clutch. The bars are thin, I prefer a fatter grip but it’s not too bad. With a feather of the clutch and twist of the wrist I am off down pit lane. The rpms are very low to my ears, being used to the R6’s I4 engine sound I think this is going to feel slow. Boy… was I ever so WRONG! Hot pit exits to the track at the end of the front straight on the exit of turn 1. I upshift to second and start to roll on the throttle and ease through the left curve to enter the track.

About that time, Eric rolls up beside me on his 750 and taps his tail and we are off to the races. Me in 3rd gear and coming up on turn 2 catching a tow from Eric was kinda slow and sure enough, I was right. We tiptoed around the track the first 2 laps. On the back straight Eric Pinson (AMA Pro Racer) rolls off and waves me by so naturally…. I rip into it. LOL this is where things get interesting really fast. I had no REAL idea of the torque curve of this beast. So basically, that rip of the throttle at around 105 in 3rd gear sent the front wheel toward the sky. I thought… OH SHEET!! Not that a wheelie is a big deal, just unexpected, because my R6 will not do this without a clutchup. After riding the wheelie by Eric, who is surely laughing his ass off in his helmet we bust ass down the straight hitting the brake markers around 175mph according to the telemetry. It was F*CKING AWESOME!!! and there are no other words to describe the acceleration. The only other sensation I felt was through the massive vibrations through the pegs. At the end of the straight is turn 7 (you already read about that). But not knowing the brakes yet, I hit them very early. After a few laps, I learned the brakes are serious business on this bike. Almost more than what you really need imho, way more stopping power than the R6 and again… felt rigid.

Now that I know what the throttle is capable of, I work the next few laps feeling out my pace on this machine. It leans over much like my R6, just slower to lean over and the other thing is, the feedback at apex is again… rigid and the only other feedback I feel is the vibration of the twin in the bars and pegs. It’s an odd feeling. On the next lap I pit in to hotpit and Eric pulls up beside me as well as another buddy also riding one of the KTM’s. Eric asks me “Are you gunna ride that thing or what?!?!?!”. My other buddy chuckles and I respond “f*ck it, let’s ride”.

We roll back out onto the track with Eric leading again and in 5 and a half laps, I haven’t touched a knee down. WTF I say… and throw caution to the wind and rip into the throttle again. I fly past Eric on the back straight. I buzz him like he is on a 250 lol while giving him the middle finger. IT’S ON! Turns 7,8,9, 10b all see a pace that I only do on my best days on the R6. Touch and go was not as observed as it normally is. It kinda went like this; dive in head first, drop shoulder, drag knee, pick up knee, hook, drag knee, pick up knee, hook more and drag knee again. At a faster pace, the vibration of the twin dissipated a bit and I could finally feel the rubber on the tarmac. It felt solid but not as rigid, seems like the faster you go, the better the bike starts to feel. The only time it slipped was under a hard throttle roll on corner exit. She would spin up pretty easy, the first couple of times sent chills down my spine but after a while, it became insanely fun to spin up the rear on the exit of turn 9.

Lol, you didn’t even have to pin it to get it to spin up either. After spinning up, the rear tire would hook up and lift the front wheel almost every time but the damper ate up much of the head shake on the flat parts of the track. However it gets even more interesting on the crests and hilly surface of the back half of Mid-Ohio. Turn 10a is a small, sweeping, blind left turn with a hump/crest at the exit. On the R6, I have caught 2 wheeled air here and so far, even the slightest bit of aggressive throttle sends the front wheel of the RC8 skyward and gets the bike totally out of sorts. I soooooo wanted to launch this bike but felt I better not. I end up short shifting to keep to the power at bay through the hills and fall back to what my 250 taught me. CARRY THE SPEED!

I break down a track into sections. There are 4 main sections at mid-ohio but at I high level there are 2. The first 7 turns of the track and the next 8 turns. The first 7 turns are about any other standard race track, the next 8 turns are like taking a stupid fast ride down an old country road. I felt the ktm really shines on the first 7 turns and straights but then settles into a good pace through the tighter stuff. Telemetry showed that I carried an average speed of 90mph throughout a lap. Pulling 1g in turns 1, 4/5, 7, 8, 9, 10b Not bad at all, imho. I never felt once while on the bike that I was pulling 1g though. Suspension? New bike? Over exited rider?

Back to the seat, controls and ergos. With all the vibration from the twin vs. an inline 4, my first thought of the seat being an issue, having too much feedback. I learned that I was mistaken, the saddle ended up feeling pretty good. I never really found my happy place in the seat but I found a place that was fine enough to have fun for a 20 minute ride. The tank was wide enough and lipped enough to get a good lock but I felt it could have used some tank grips. The overall seating is aggressive but the R6 is more aggressive, it is more comparable to a 600rr. I felt the pegs where in the perfect placement in relation to the tank and my leg length. But I did feel the clip-on angle were spread to wide for my taste. At pace, the engine sounds more calm than an I4, I liked that too.

In the end, would I buy one? Hell yea! I like it much more than a GSXR 1000 but I didn’t like it as much as a R1. Dude, you gotta ride both if you get the chance.

Even at A level track pace, different machines will fill your bucket with the different feelings of riding. Some good, some bad... Keep your learning hat on at all times and don't be SOOOOO afraid to try something new.

[choneofakind]

Cam, great write up! Much of what I experienced when I long term rode a buddy's CBR. I felt the same thing with the steering and throttle. Same thing with being much more planted on bumps. Same thing with always feeling like I was just barely opening the door with what the bike was capable of. And yes, same feeling of being humbled in my riding ability. I'm but a drop in a vast ocean that is the performance of a 15 year old CBR.

And know what? It made me realize that for me, right now, the 250 is my perfect bike. I can wring it out. I can push it through corners. I can adjust my line like I know what I'm doing. I can toss it back and forth. I can get a little air now and again. I know the brakes. I know how it feels close at the edge of what I'm capable of. And it's not scary when I'm there. To me, the 250's much like that perfect pair of jeans that fit just right and are worn in all the right places; even if I buy a new pair of jeans, they'll never be the same as that perfect pair. Sure, it's slow. But its fast enough for me.


*raises hand sheepishly* I like my 250

[Alex]

@csmith12 - I've sat on the RC8 a few times, but haven't had a chance to ride it. IIRC, just about everything on that bike from an ergonomics standpoint is adjustable. Pegs/Bars/Seat Height all have adjustability to get things just right for a particular rider. Seems like a very useful feature, and you could perhaps have dialed it in even closer to what you'd prefer given more time.

[alex.s]

I sat on a big gp bike at laguna seca. it was so amazing. everything felt perfect. the throttle seemed like it might not have been connected. or maybe just that smooth. the ergo and body support for tucking and side sitting upright were ****ing spot on perfect. i was amazed by how it felt. i wish i get a chance at some point to sit on it running. or maybe even feel it in gear... :O i dont know if i would want to ride that thing. fixing that would be expensive.