need some help with fear issues.

[Domagoj]

Hello everyone,

I have a 2009 ninjette, mostly stock, with clipons and rearset adjusters, and Diablo Rosso II tires. Nothing else is modified.
I spent some time on the local track here before - including today I think I made ~50 laps all in all.

Yesterday I extended the feelers on the pegs slightly to make sure that hard parts are not first to touch the ground (kickstand and stock exhaust can - footpegs are raised with adjusters).
While measuring the ground clearance I was simply sure I would never even come close to scratching - it looks kind of scary to see the bike leaned over @ close to 35 degrees from horizontal. With sarcastic thoughts like "yeah right, I can totally see myself leaned over like that" I went to sleep awaiting the big day today.

Track was empty, there were like 3 bikes tops riding at the same time. Weather was nice and sunny, a bit too hot though. Felt a little light headed. To cut the crap, I had the track for myself, for something like $60. Fantastic, perfect.

Everything was fine till the fourth lap. Then the impossible happened - right feeler hit the ground. I panicked, but I did not chop the throttle, and everything was fine. Except my head.

Day before, I was sure that I would never come close to this. And then it came, just like that. The rest of the day was basically a waste - I tried to work on my body positioning but first half of my mind was on "careful or you will tip over, you dumbass, and you will have nothing to go to work with" and second on "damn I need a bigger suit, this one is killing me".

The irony is, that the bike feels that it can go faster. I feel that I can go faster. It feels as if I'm not leaned over at all. But I cannot make myself carry that extra 5km/h through the corner next time.

How do you guys deal with this? How did you overcome this? I cannot afford to crash, - I'm not sure I can afford a bigger suit. But I really think I need the suit, because this one simply pulls my back up and ruins everything.
Is it all worth it, or will it just end with a ruined bike?

[choneofakind]

Is that the first time you've scraped something on the ground in a turn? The first time is scary. After that, you've already gone through the surprise and expect it coming, and correct for it when it happens.

Kinda like when I drag toes in twisties. The first time it scared the crap out of me and I chopped the throttle; typical SR. Now I relax, weight the outside peg, and stand the bike up a little through that turn to stop the dragging, then roll on and complete the turn like normal. I also fix my feet for the next turns so they don't continue dragging. I guess what I'm saying is to just relax and keep the bike smooth and stable, then take a moment to analyze what you did to cause it to drag, and work on that instead of simply psyching yourself out. Head games aren't fun when you're trying to focus and improve.

So what can you learn from this? Was your body positioning bad, causing the bike to lean further than it needed? Was your line uneven, causing part of your turn to be excessively tight, requiring more lean angle? Did you come into the turn too hot? Or are your feelers simply too long? What can you take away from this that will make you a better rider instead of a scared one?
Posted via Mobile Device

[folky15]

It may also be wise not to push yourself too hard out on the track if it would be financially disastrous if you crashed.

It sounds like the implications of wrecking your primary mode of transportation could be a mental block for you.....and so its probably a good thing that you aren't going completely balls out.

[csmith12]

I think you may be confusing fear for conservativeness.

If your wanting to test the limits of traction and your abilities, the track is no place for artificial barriers. I know many riders put their only bike on the track but should it their primary method of transportation? Do they have a plan B for getting to work if the bike is not rideable? You just gotta separate the two and plan accordingly to take one less issue out of your head while riding. Prep complete enough to remove as many worries as possible to get the best track experience.

As far as your suit goes, if yours doesn't fit properly, there are ways to stretch them a bit but your mileage may vary on that. Maybe have it altered by a pro to give you a bit of extra room.

Some time ago, I felt the same as you. I knew the bike could go faster, I knew I could go faster. But I also knew my lil ninja was stock and had lean limits due to hard parts being low. There is not really much you can do except pay the $$ to get aftermarket parts to raise em up when your skill exceeds the limits of the stock parts.

Overall I like your thinking, safety over speed and lean. But you have to shed that skin and think of it as a "controlled risk" instead of a hard limiting fear. Prep your bike for track knowing and trusting in its abilities so you can focus on building yours up. Scraping hard parts is not favored but it doesn't mean you will instantly go down. You can drag a peg or the stock exhaust pretty hard before it becomes a "real" problem to the stability of the bike.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

.........Yesterday I extended the feelers on the pegs slightly........it looks kind of scary to see the bike leaned over @ close to 35 degrees from horizontal. ........

I believe that both things can't happen at the same time.

Extended pegs will keep you from leaning the bike beyond around 40 degrees (measured from a vertical line in repose), which are 50 degrees from horizontal.

While turning, the g force will make the suspension compress (front and rear alike), as your bike and yourself weight around 80% more than in repose, reducing that maximum angle that you measured being the bike in repose even more.

Lean angle and limits of traction are not the same thing.

Tires don't skid because they are leaned, but because the lateral force surpasses the friction force.

Read this thread and follow all its links:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...opic=3438&st=0

[Galaxieman]

Here's some advice one of my motorcycle gurus gave me: "Sneak up on fast". Okay, so you're at the point where you're dragging hard parts. Time to get some outside observation(preferably with onboard video so you can see it for yourself) and evaluate your body position. These bikes have a LOT of ground clearance compared to some other bikes I've ridden, and that can be improved with proper body position and cornering technique. The photographers at trackdays are a pretty good source for seeing how far you're leaned over and how much you're hanging off the side of the bike. How consistently are you dragging knee in the corners where the hard parts hit? Your knee should be down WELL before the bike drags parts, since it's really more of a lean angle indicator than anything else.

My Superhawk would drag the fairing over the front header pipe in right hand turns before my toes even touched down, so I had to be cognizant of that and when I heard the higher pitched scraping noise it was time to weight the outside peg and raise the bike up a bit. If my toes dragged I would weight the outside peg and the inside kneeslider (which was already on the ground) and pick the bike up a bit, while still maintaining my line. I bought the Ninjette specifically because I need to learn to carry corner speed, and this is a bike that forces you to do that in order to stay fast. I have to re-work my body positioning since on the 'hawk I had to hang off the side like a spider monkey to keep the hard parts from dragging, but with this bike I'll have more clearance.

And also remember that you can't 'win' a trackday, so if the bike is your only mode of transportation, take it easy. I'd get someone to follow you with a camera to check body position, watch the video, and then go out and ride at about 80% just working on getting your position as 'perfect' and consistent as you can. The speed will slowly come back. If you're not racing, trackdays should be about improving your skill, so work on lines and body positioning and you should be fine.

What's wrong with your suit fitment? Do you have any pictures from the trackday or in your leathers? Getting that fixed may help with body position just as a matter of course.

[alex.s]

tell your brain to shut up!

[Domagoj]

@choneofakind
I have scraped the pegs in stock position, but never hard parts.
My body positioning is bad, I know it and I'm trying to improve. Sometimes I miss the lines, but I'm aware of that too, when it happens.

@folky15
Yes, I am afraid of wrecking the bike. I need 5 complete paychecks to earn it. That should give some perspective into how how expensive the bike is.

@csmith12
I can always take the bus! It would take me from 40-50 minutes. With ninjette it takes 15-20. That sums up to loosing 10 days/year extra of my life on commuting. Don't like the sound of that.

I already had some work done on my suit... It was a no return sale, and, I convinced myself that it is manageable, but unfortunately it is not. Maybe it can be altered further, but there is not a single shop in this silly country that offers those services. Besides, it was not tailored that well to begin with. I simply made a bad decision because I had hoped to go cheap.

Good to know that I can drag a little of hard stuff without crashing. Not that I want to, but it does give a little comfort.

@Motofool
My footpegs are raised. They are not in the stock position anymore. What you point out is true for stock position.
Will go thru the stuff in the link, thanks!

@Galaxieman
You would not believe this, but NOBODY here tracks the small bikes. I'm always alone. Most of other people are either foreign, or simply full of themselves. For the most part locals laugh at my 250.
Anyway, the possibility of somebody following me with a camera is not there. I should probably be able to come up with an on board mount somewhere above the passenger seat. There are no track day photographers here.

I think I will get a new suit. It will be significantly easier to do it properly while my movement is not constrained.
I hope you are right about speed coming back.

Thank you all for replying. I figure that the right path is to fix the suit to fix the body position to fix the lean angle, and of course as always to work on lines and technique, without pushing too hard.

[Galaxieman]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

@Galaxieman
You would not believe this, but NOBODY here tracks the small bikes. I'm always alone. Most of other people are either foreign, or simply full of themselves. For the most part locals laugh at my 250.
Anyway, the possibility of somebody following me with a camera is not there. I should probably be able to come up with an on board mount somewhere above the passenger seat. There are no track day photographers here.

I think I will get a new suit. It will be significantly easier to do it properly while my movement is not constrained.
I hope you are right about speed coming back.

The best part about 'locals laughing at you', is that once you get fast, you'll blow by them in the corners. Hard to laugh at the guy who just passed you Another solution on the trackday photographer thing is to get a friend to go with you. I've done trackday shoots with my DSLR, but even with a point-and-shoot camera you can get some decent shots. I have some, but unfortunately there in that section of my blog that I haven't gotten all the photos re-uploaded after switching domains subsequent to my divorce a couple of years ago. Might have to fix at least that post tonight to show you the shots I got with a regular canon point-n-shoot.

[alex.s]

it sounds like a joke what i said, but im serious. if you are on the track, take some chances. most of the time you'll be surprised at how much faster you can take a turn simply by entering faster. what you thought was the limit before was simply the limit of the line you selected because of the speed you entered at. the faster entry will force you to change your RPs and you'll wind up using the entire track more appropriately. the 'correct' line isnt always apparent if you arent flying into the corner. now im not saying charge the corner and park it. im saying brake less and don't worry about what you think the limits are. just give it more gas.

Originally Posted by Domagoj

@choneofakind
I have scraped the pegs in stock position, but never hard parts.
My body positioning is bad, I know it and I'm trying to improve. Sometimes I miss the lines, but I'm aware of that too, when it happens.

@folky15
Yes, I am afraid of wrecking the bike. I need 5 complete paychecks to earn it. That should give some perspective into how how expensive the bike is.

@csmith12
I can always take the bus! It would take me from 40-50 minutes. With ninjette it takes 15-20. That sums up to loosing 10 days/year extra of my life on commuting. Don't like the sound of that.

I already had some work done on my suit... It was a no return sale, and, I convinced myself that it is manageable, but unfortunately it is not. Maybe it can be altered further, but there is not a single shop in this silly country that offers those services. Besides, it was not tailored that well to begin with. I simply made a bad decision because I had hoped to go cheap.

Good to know that I can drag a little of hard stuff without crashing. Not that I want to, but it does give a little comfort.

@Motofool
My footpegs are raised. They are not in the stock position anymore. What you point out is true for stock position.
Will go thru the stuff in the link, thanks!

@Galaxieman
You would not believe this, but NOBODY here tracks the small bikes. I'm always alone. Most of other people are either foreign, or simply full of themselves. For the most part locals laugh at my 250.
Anyway, the possibility of somebody following me with a camera is not there. I should probably be able to come up with an on board mount somewhere above the passenger seat. There are no track day photographers here.

I think I will get a new suit. It will be significantly easier to do it properly while my movement is not constrained.
I hope you are right about speed coming back.

Thank you all for replying. I figure that the right path is to fix the suit to fix the body position to fix the lean angle, and of course as always to work on lines and technique, without pushing too hard.

Too bad my grandma left Croatia in the 40's because she is a pro tailor hahha! I didnt know we had ninjette members from Croatia. I hope to visit some time it is so beautiful out there.

[pomartin]

I had similar problem... then my frend told me that he will drive in front of me, with speed that he thought will be appropriet for the beginner. He told me to think just about two things: never brake in the corner and lean!
He raised speed every lap and w/o thinking of anything i just followed him... after 10 laps i wasnt scare anymore... try it. For me it really worked.

And where in Rijeka is this track?
I go there 2-3/month but didnt see any track or signs for track yet :P

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by alex.s

it sounds like a joke what i said, but im serious. if you are on the track, take some chances. most of the time you'll be surprised at how much faster you can take a turn simply by entering faster. what you thought was the limit before was simply the limit of the line you selected because of the speed you entered at. the faster entry will force you to change your RPs and you'll wind up using the entire track more appropriately. the 'correct' line isnt always apparent if you arent flying into the corner. now im not saying charge the corner and park it. im saying brake less and don't worry about what you think the limits are. just give it more gas.

I astounded myself by following this idea when I was at Mid-o. A little faster in different turns, and a little better use of the width to line up for the next turn, and suddenly, I'm going way faster than what I thought was possible.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Yesterday I extended the feelers on the pegs slightly to make sure that hard parts are not first to touch the ground (kickstand and stock exhaust can - footpegs are raised with adjusters).

Take your feelers off! I took mine off halfway through my first track day. The next lap out, my knee was dragging rather than my feelers.

Originally Posted by alex.s

tell your brain to shut up!

YES! I need this reminder. Oh, and breathe...breathe calmly and deeply through the corner. It will help you relax. Staying relaxed and not tensing up is the BEST thing you can do to make it through a corner!

Originally Posted by Domagoj

@Galaxieman
You would not believe this, but NOBODY here tracks the small bikes. I'm always alone. Most of other people are either foreign, or simply full of themselves. For the most part locals laugh at my 250..

Do people really laugh at your or is that just your perception? I'm usually the only 250 on the track too, but when other riders (hell, even elbow-dragging track coaches) take my bike out for a few laps, they are giddy upon return. Everyone LOVES my bike! I know in your situation it's not possible to offer your bike to one of them for a few laps, but it would definitely shut them up!

Originally Posted by alex.s

the faster entry will force you to change your RPs and you'll wind up using the entire track more appropriately. the 'correct' line isnt always apparent if you arent flying into the corner. now im not saying charge the corner and park it. im saying brake less and don't worry about what you think the limits are. just give it more gas.

This guy knows his **** when it comes to track riding!

[alex.s]

nawww i compete for back marker.

you probably shouldnt listen to me

[Domagoj]

Originally Posted by alex.s

it sounds like a joke what i said, but im serious. if you are on the track, take some chances. most of the time you'll be surprised at how much faster you can take a turn simply by entering faster. what you thought was the limit before was simply the limit of the line you selected because of the speed you entered at. the faster entry will force you to change your RPs and you'll wind up using the entire track more appropriately. the 'correct' line isnt always apparent if you arent flying into the corner. now im not saying charge the corner and park it. im saying brake less and don't worry about what you think the limits are. just give it more gas.

I did not discard what you said. I somewhat understand what you mean; going in too slow makes you finish the corner well before all the track space is used up.
I'm trying to tell my brain to shut it, and I did, at a time. And then it scraped, and I got scared shitless, because that was my "don't worry, you will never reach that" safety. I suppose I should listen to you guys when you say some hard parts scraping are not immediate crash.

Originally Posted by codestp202

Too bad my grandma left Croatia in the 40's because she is a pro tailor hahha! I didnt know we had ninjette members from Croatia. I hope to visit some time it is so beautiful out there.

Afaik I'm the only one. It is a nice place this, but very chaotic.

Originally Posted by pomartin

I had similar problem... then my frend told me that he will drive in front of me, with speed that he thought will be appropriet for the beginner. He told me to think just about two things: never brake in the corner and lean!
He raised speed every lap and w/o thinking of anything i just followed him... after 10 laps i wasnt scare anymore... try it. For me it really worked.

And where in Rijeka is this track?
I go there 2-3/month but didnt see any track or signs for track yet :P

Hey! A neighbour!
Track is a few kilometers outside of town, I hope this google maps link will work.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.380879...33023&t=k&z=16

Originally Posted by ally99

Take your feelers off! I took mine off halfway through my first track day. The next lap out, my knee was dragging rather than my feelers.

Do people really laugh at your or is that just your perception? I'm usually the only 250 on the track too, but when other riders (hell, even elbow-dragging track coaches) take my bike out for a few laps, they are giddy upon return. Everyone LOVES my bike! I know in your situation it's not possible to offer your bike to one of them for a few laps, but it would definitely shut them up!

This guy knows his **** when it comes to track riding!

I think my body position is not good enough to knee drag yet. I will consider it. And I'm listening to alex.s, I realized from previous posts that he is skilled rider.

Most people who ride bikes here ride exclusively on the street. They are in general too cheap to pay a fee to ride. What the hell, road is free!! Go wild. So we have many dead bikers every summer. I do not understand that, but I have stopped trying to.
People who come to the track have dedicated bikes for that purpose only. They go very fast, and my efforts are ridiculous to them. I can understand that. Maybe I just have to have more faith in people.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

I suppose I should listen to you guys when you say some hard parts scraping are not immediate crash.
.

Be careful with this train of thought, however. Dragging hard parts is not something you want to do on street or track. That is simply a signal to you that there are skills you need to work on to improve your riding so the correct things are dragging. Hard parts should not. The danger here is if the corner starts to tighten and you're already dragging hard parts, you're screwed. Ask me how I know.

So work on NOT dragging hard parts, not by being fearful or not leaning your bike the way it's meant to lean, but by working on correcting your lines, entry speed, and body position. Read Lee Parks, Total Control. He has a great chapter on fear. Did I mention have FUN!?!

[alex.s]

remember peg feelers arent hard parts. take the feelers off and you have like 5 or 10 more degrees of lean. thats a lot of lean at those angles.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

remember peg feelers arent hard parts. take the feelers off and you have like 5 or 10 more degrees of lean. thats a lot of lean at those angles.

YESSSSS! my first track day, it freaked me out b/c I knew my form was good but I was dragging feelers rather than knee. The lap after we took them off, I was dragging knee through corners. So yeah, get rid of those feelers, especially if they're going to freak you out when you feel them hit.

[Galaxieman]

Here's an example picture that I took at a trackday back in December 2009 with my Canon SD800IS. A note on shooting these: it's easier to use a point-and-shoot with an optical viewfinder, and a 'continuous' shooting function (multiple frames by holding down the shutter button). Since the screen goes black between shots but the viewfinder doesn't just look through that and hold the shutter button down while tracking the bike around the corner. Not too difficult and you can get pretty good results with a little practice:


Here's a shot of me from my first ever trackday, back in April of that year:

Yes, I was dragging a knee, but my body was somewhat 'crossed-up', and my inside elbow was tucked in too tight.

And here's a link to a shot the photographer took at my last trackday: LINKY

Edit to add:

One of the comical pieces relevant to this discussion which generally happens at bike nights, etc: Someone checks to see how big your chicken strips are, thinking that smaller is better. However, on identical bikes, at the same speed through the same corner on the same line, the guy with bigger chicken strips is generally doing it better. Anybody can ride circles in a parking lot to scrub off the chicken strips... Work on getting them to be as big as possible, then when you get faster and they run out again you'll know you've done more and you're approaching the edge of the bikes capability instead of at the edge of yours.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

@Motofool
My footpegs are raised. They are not in the stock position anymore. What you point out is true for stock position.
Will go thru the stuff in the link, thanks!

Then, if you are really leaning the bike that much, you may want to consider slowing down your entry speed while you learn to improve your quick flick and your riding position.

Have you studied A twist of the wrist II?

You need to educate yourself in the proper techniques first, then the speed will follow naturally.

If your approach is the opposite, you are forcing yourself to ride and turn faster while you are not ready for it.
Then you become increasingly scared and oversensitive about what the bike is doing (angles, noises, skids, etc.).
All that diverts your attention from the proper techniques and eventually leads you to a mistake.

"While riding, the more we resist things happening to us the more likely we are to make an error with that exact thing. The areas we fear, the ones we do not understand the basics or the limits of, the ones that stick our attention, will bite us in the end.........Riding inflicts harsh correction on riders who are not obedient to its rigorous demands." Keith Code

Your tires talk to you, your machine has physical limits as real as your mental limits; learn the language and the safest possible approach to those limits:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=877

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=703

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=518

[Rexbo]

Originally Posted by ally99

Oh, and breathe...breathe calmly and deeply through the corner. It will help you relax. Staying relaxed and not tensing up is the BEST thing you can do to make it through a corner!

Probably the best advice there is here. If you're scared, think you're coming in too fast, take a deep breath, try to relax, and turn in to the corner.

Stop thinking so much, and just try to listen to what the bike is telling you. Start slow, and instead of thinking "go faster" just think "go smoother". Get on the brakes smoother, turn in smoother, get on the gas as early and as smoothly as you can. You'll eventually find that you feel like you're going slow, but are turning faster lap times than you ever have before.

[Ritter]

Be water my friend.

[pomartin]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Hey! A neighbour!
Track is a few kilometers outside of town, I hope this google maps link will work.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.380879...33023&t=k&z=16

Tnx
Will go check it out ASAP.
Hope i see you there

[shane liberty]

You need to get yourself a cougar




Oh yeah, and don't forget that measuring the lean of the bike in a static position doesn't represent the bike's true ground clearance. Your body weight combined with the weight transfer of the machine under hard acceleration will change the amount of clearance the bike has on either side from the ground.


Case in point: MY Formula Twins SV has the most narrow bodywork I can find for it and, although the bike would have to lean past 50 degrees to drag the bellypan static, the thing continues to drag through the fiberglass on right turns while I'm racing. The rear squats a little bit under acceleration and ground clearance is lost.


Your "curb feelers" should be removed and you have to work on being comfortable with coming close to the ground while cornering.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by shane liberty

Case in point: MY Formula Twins SV has the most narrow bodywork I can find for it and, although the bike would have to lean past 50 degrees to drag the bellypan static, the thing continues to drag through the fiberglass on right turns while I'm racing. The rear squats a little bit under acceleration and ground clearance is lost.

oh man this had me sooo confused for a good 5 minutes when i first took my fzr on the track... was scraping places i didnt expect to scrape... cause i wasnt thinking about the suspension compressing! haha

[Domagoj]

A little update.

I bought the new suit, feels great.
Did a few laps this morning, nothing spectacular, but I had fun.

I have also managed to improve my time a bit, I focused on a series of corners in which I usually go too slow and loose a lot of speed in the next section.

There was one disturbing thing, there was sort of a wobble in a right turn. Front wheel just made a single, quite violent motion and returned back in line an instant later. I am not really sure, but it felt like a minor slip and grip again.

It also seems that my rear tire is carrying much more weight than the front. Perhaps I should try to sit further forward?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

A little update.

I bought the new suit, feels great.
Did a few laps this morning, nothing spectacular, but I had fun.

I have also managed to improve my time a bit, I focused on a series of corners in which I usually go too slow and loose a lot of speed in the next section.

There was one disturbing thing, there was sort of a wobble in a right turn. Front wheel just made a single, quite violent motion and returned back in line an instant later. I am not really sure, but it felt like a minor slip and grip again.

It also seems that my rear tire is carrying much more weight than the front. Perhaps I should try to sit further forward?

Nice! Your doing what I do, working it out one problem at a time. So you felt your first real slip of a tire? If so, just get used to it. As your pace increases you will feel slips from time to time. Heck.... I find it fun when the rear does it. When it happens in the front, well.... not so much but it happens often enough too. The trick is to recognize when you made a mistake as a rider that caused the slip up.

Also, during cornering the rear should hold more weight. So that is a good sign. At some point you may want to start personalizing your suspension. The goal for both front and rear is for both of them to be operating in the mid-stroke range at all times, even when the weight transfers to the rear during cornering/roll on. I would venture to say... this is one of the main reasons why riders say a bigger bike feels more planted in the corners. There are many other factors but to keep it simple, most bigger bikes have better suspension than the lil 250. The better the suspension and the better it's set up to the riders specific needs, the better it will feel.

[csmith12]

Gratz on the suit too! Comfort goes a long way right?

[Domagoj]

The new suit feels as if I'm wearing nothing. Feeling is gone when I get off the bike, and realize how sweaty I actually am. Then the classic sausage comparison comes to mind...

Yes, the mistake that caused the slip. I don't know what it was at that particular moment, except that I was perhaps a bit too stiff in the arms. There were mistakes elsewhere, though. A bunch of them.

I took pictures of my tires with my phone. I'll post them when I get home hopefully, so you can see how much more "shredded" my rear looks. The tires have some 30 km of road riding after the track so they are dirty in the middle.

I figure my skill level is very much away from sufficient to tamper with my suspension. As you have said, one thing at a time.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by shane liberty
Case in point: MY Formula Twins SV has the most narrow bodywork I can find for it and, although the bike would have to lean past 50 degrees to drag the bellypan static, the thing continues to drag through the fiberglass on right turns while I'm racing. The rear squats a little bit under acceleration and ground clearance is lost.

Originally Posted by alex.s

oh man this had me sooo confused for a good 5 minutes when i first took my fzr on the track... was scraping places i didnt expect to scrape... cause i wasnt thinking about the suspension compressing! haha

Don't attribute the ground scraping to acceleration....it's not. Its the G-forces in the corner pulling the suspension down not the acceleration. Under acceleration, the wheel base gets shorter, not longer. The bike height actually gets taller in acceleration. However, the G-forces in a turn will pull the bike down.
This is one of the reasons its so important to slow down before the corner, and be rolling-on as you go through the corner...you need the acceleration through the corner to shorten the wheelbase and counter-act the g-forces.

Next time you are out....bleed off a bit more speed before the corner, and then use more acceleration through it. Although its counter-thought process, you will more than likely find that the ground clearance gets better and it stops scraping.

[csmith12]

If your bike is squating to the point of dragging parts during cornering your suspension isn't set right. Add more preload (unless sag is where you want it) or tighten compression to make it stiffer.

[csmith12]

Just so everyone else knows... this level of tweaking is impossible on a stock 250. Pre-gens offer no customization, new-gens only offer preload adjustability. This is why we eventually replace the rear shock on the 250.

And as for slowing down just to prevent scraping... I guess that is one way. Not going to win many races like that. On a 2fiddy it's important to "carry" the speed into the corner as you just can't roll on like a bigger bike to power through the corner. The other guys have who addressed their scraping problems will late brake and pass you every time.

[Rexbo]

I "fixed" the scraping thing with rearsets, raising the rear end a lot with dogbones, and raising the front end a few mm as well, and getting an exhaust that doesnt stick out. Now if only I could make my toes shorter!

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Rexbo

Now if only I could make my toes shorter!

It's inevitable. Even I'll drag my toes before my knee sliders. Bad BP? Yeah, Bad BP

As for your question, I could write pages of advice but I won't...just be patient and keep working at it. It'll eventually come to you.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Just so everyone else knows... this level of tweaking is impossible on a stock 250. Pre-gens offer no customization, new-gens only offer preload adjustability. This is why we eventually replace the rear shock on the 250.

And as for slowing down just to prevent scraping... I guess that is one way. Not going to win many races like that. On a 2fiddy it's important to "carry" the speed into the corner as you just can't roll on like a bigger bike to power through the corner. The other guys have who addressed their scraping problems will late brake and pass you every time.

Bear in mind...my comments were to two people talking about a FZR, and a SV not the 250R, both of which have plenty of power to come out of a corner.

However, the 250R also exhibits the same wheelbase shortening under acceleration like every other bike, and a rider that knows how to use his throttle and brakes will beat a late brake choad everyday of the week.

While the late break might allow him to pass...its only a matter of time before one of two things happens. He late brakes too much and the smoother rider will catch him on the exit. Or...he asks the tires for braking, and cornering traction at the same time and lowsides it. BYE SUCKER.

[rojoracing53]

Hell you think scraping your peg feelers is bad try racing a boxercup bike, I spent a year in europe dragging the titanium sliders that were invaded in the cyclinder head covers. It doesn't get anymore "Hard Parts" then dragging your engine and we did it through most corners easily over 100mph. If your dragging pegs then you need to do one of two things rise them higher or lean your body off the bike more.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Hell you think scraping your peg feelers is bad try racing a boxercup bike, I spent a year in europe dragging the titanium sliders that were invaded in the cyclinder head covers. It doesn't get anymore "Hard Parts" then dragging your engine and we did it through most corners easily over 100mph. If your dragging pegs then you need to do one of two things rise them higher or lean your body off the bike more.

That would freak me out.

As for peg dragging...all depends on the turn. No matter how much you hang off/raise your foot peg you'll still drag toe. Our bikes weren't created with racing in mind so we make do.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

That would freak me out.

As for peg dragging...all depends on the turn. No matter how much you hang off/raise your foot peg you'll still drag toe. Our bikes weren't created with racing in mind so we make do.

yeah and nether was the R1100s boxercup bike but like you said we make do with what we have

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Don't attribute the ground scraping to acceleration....it's not. Its the G-forces in the corner pulling the suspension down not the acceleration. Under acceleration, the wheel base gets shorter, not longer. The bike height actually gets taller in acceleration. However, the G-forces in a turn will pull the bike down.
This is one of the reasons its so important to slow down before the corner, and be rolling-on as you go through the corner...you need the acceleration through the corner to shorten the wheelbase and counter-act the g-forces.

Next time you are out....bleed off a bit more speed before the corner, and then use more acceleration through it. Although its counter-thought process, you will more than likely find that the ground clearance gets better and it stops scraping.

i was actually referring to high compression turns like the bowl at chuckwalla... its a wide radius banked hairpin that you take at about 80-90... lots of down force on entry, mid turn and even through the exit because it banks up at the end... feels like your gunna crap out your guts its intense.