Dirt Bike Suggestions

[Proteus]

My wife and I took the MSF Dirt Bike class about a month ago and had a ton of fun. We're looking at picking up a couple dirt bikes now.

She's interested in trail riding only, and would prefer to trailer the bike to a trai head and take off. She's pretty set on the CRF230F.

I'm not sure which way to go, because I also want to try MX. We're moving soon, and I'll be about 1hr from a MX course and 2hrs from trails.

I really enjoyed trail riding, and will definitely be doing more of that. I'd like to try MX as well, but I've never done it so I don't know how much I would do.

What bike would you dirt riders recommend for me to do mainly trails but try my hand at MX? Or is any trail bike going to just not work for MX at all?

Then there's the dual sport consideration, but I've pretty much ruled that out.

[csmith12]

Out of the box, there isn't much difference between the two types that you will use as a new trails/mx rider. Aside of lights and maybe a side stand, model dependant of course, you will want handguards and a skid plate for your trail bike. Those won't matter much on an mx bike. Then again, you don't want such a rigid setup suspension on a trails bike that is capable of landing a 30ft triple either.

Suspension is your biggest difference, second to protection. Next comes torque. Getting a holeshot is priceless during an mx race, not so much on a trails bike.

I am still learning the end game on these machines, and have learned that my yz125 is NOT the ideal trails bike. I would love to have some of that top end power to be more accessible down low.

The biggest and hardest choice to make is to go 2smoke or 4 stroke? Pro's and cons to either choice. Then you need to check out how much maintance needs to be done and when. Maybe rebuilding a top end on a schedule is not your cup of tea?

I went with the 125 because I knew I "could do" trails on it, take it to the mx track or sumo it up for the cart track. This bike will never see the pavement of the open road as long as I own it. And honestly, it's quite the challenge to ride due to it's power delivery.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

[accumack]

My wife and I have 2009 Honda CRF230L dual sport. It is street legal how ever you can make the CRF230F street legal. The L is about 1 1/2" lower. It is not what I would call MX capable 12hp. The are fun bikes for our purpose.

[CC Cowboy]

I rode a trail bike (KDX200)for one year in the woods. It was OK. I switched over to a MX bike and all of a sudden it was thrilling to ride the woods. I've had a number of KX250s (two strokes) and no one could ever keep up with me in the woods. Life is a race, going slow sucks. The suspension was perfect for where I rode, although the bikes were never street legal. Luckily I had 8500 acres of woods next to my house for entertainment.

[subxero]

The crf230 will most likely suit ur wife well, full size ish bike with electric start. They are pretty docile but still let you feel like you are riding a big bike. It will have some low end grunt to make trail riding easy and a softer suspension to soak up bumps. Those engines are almost on par with the xr100's as in they are very durable. Just keep up with oil.

For you, Chris already gave some good advice. The 2 things to really consider are suspension and power delivery/power curve. I suggest any 250f mx bikes to people who want to get into dirt riding be it trail or mx, or a mix. The 250f 4 strokes are very friendly bikes. Power comes on easy and manageable tons of hook up, decent low end grunt if you want to lug the bike around on the trails but it is built well and to haul ass and to handle mx, it comes with an mx suspension and they are not crazy heavy for a 4t.

any 250f 4t mx bike will be a blast and not beat you up but still be more than enough bike for many years. I know vet riders that switch to 250 4t's because they are such an easy bike to ride but still haul. Go from almost any bike on to a 250f 4t and you will feel more confident (not always faster but more comfortable and confident which can translate to faster in the end )

The stock suspension will be fine for typical trail riding and good for mx, it will need adjusted if you want to get into more technical enduro, cross country type riding where you are riding very rough terrain. At that point you can't have your suspension set up for both, its either rough terrain or mx jumps, one or the other will suffer but that doesn't mean either are un doable, you just gotta change up the approach.

Only ktm offers a sort of in between bike in their xc models. So the 250 xc-f for example. It will be slightly geared more towards trails vs mx, but the suspension can still handle jumps but not quite as well as mx bike. i think they come with electric start, maybe a trip meter, tach, and all the wiring for various lights <--- this means they weight a bit more as well. Think they come with an 18" rear which is preferred for trails. they are typically a little more pricey as well i think.

Personally i would suggest you get an MX 250f bike, like i said, you won't notice the suspension being much of an issue for trail riding until you get fast on the really rough trails, then it makes all the difference.

the 250mx 4ts as long as you keep up on them won't kill you with maintenance but if something goes wrong, you are looking at $$$$

The big thing with mx 4t's is the big ?? surrounding buying used. Unless the guy has tons of paper work documenting all service it can be scary, you just never know.

That brings us to 2 strokes. If you like 2 strokes then nothing else will do, its the sound, the crazy power delivery and lightness that really turns people on. But that crazy power delivery can be a complete PITA in some situations especially for small cc 2t's like 125's and even sometimes the 250's, they don't like to go slow and have a steeper learning curve for riding. They are easier, more simple and cheaper to work on engine wise and are carb'd. Most modern 4t mx'ers are EFI if that is a make or break.

u looking used or new?

Start with the bike and go from there, i rode trails for years with out brush guards, just recently go them, i don't like them but they serve a purpose so i tolerate them. You don't need a skid plate unless you are doing really big rock type stuff, enduro trials type stuff. JMO A skid plate can protect the engine though if you go down on a rocky trail and you land on a rock that would have hit square on a front corner of the engine but in my experience it doesn't happen often.

[Proteus]

Thanks for the responses.

She loved the 230 she rode at dirt bike class, so I think that's a definite. She has no interest in riding it on the street instead of the Vespa.

@subxero what does the "f" mean when you say "250f?' And 2t and 4t means two and four stoke? From what I've read I think I want to go four stroke. Not sure about used or new. I'm planning on buying a new Ninja 1000 later in the season so maybe I'll see if I can get a package deal on an N1000 and a KX250F.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Thanks for the responses.

She loved the 230 she rode at dirt bike class, so I think that's a definite. She has no interest in riding it on the street instead of the Vespa.

@subxero what does the "f" mean when you say "250f?' And 2t and 4t means two and four stoke? From what I've read I think I want to go four stroke. Not sure about used or new. I'm planning on buying a new Ninja 1000 later in the season so maybe I'll see if I can get a package deal on an N1000 and a KX250F.

the f typically means it is a 4stroke. So yz250 vs yz250f some people put the f before the # some after, it is same. yzf250 = yz250f

ktm uses some other letters. 250sx = mx or supercross bike so same as the Japanese mx bikes in purpose and add an f to it for 4 stroke. 250sxf. They have xc for cross country 250xc-f more trail oriented but not full blow. and they have their xc-w i think the w is for woods? they are pretty much full blow trail bike, lights, brake light, electric start, pds rear suspension 18" rear wheel, wide ratio tranny and more. I believe yamaha just announced they are going to offer a more trail oriented 2t next year. Pretty cool, guess they are tired of ktm taking all the xc money. Yamaha does have their wr line that is more trail oriented but not racey

yeah 2t is 2 stroke, 4t is 4 stroke.

New is worry free with a 4 stroke dirt bike which is nice but they are expensive now a days. Some times you can find left over model years for a ok price.

[accumack]

The last year the 230 was made was 2009 we bought ours new in feb 2012 but they were 2009s. it was replaced by the CRF250 water cooled vs air cooled and about 50 lbs heavier.

["A"]

Casual trail riding vs MX might require very different choice of ride.
Difficult to choose one single ride that is capable of performing well at both.
I would suggest you look for a local enduro/trail riding/MX club,
volunteer for trail maintenance, race day trail marshall and staging help to get to talk to as many riders/club members to learn about what they like about their choice for their vehicles.

Personally, I find MX style riding little too rough on my old aging body, landing big air/table tops lap after lap is a thing of the past for me.
Until about 3 years ago, i was still managing 2-3 enduro events a year, but really needed to maintain good cardio/strength condition just to participate and enjoy the events.
Recovery usually take a good 72 hours with. It took more dedication & time than I like to spend.

Luckily for me, my place is close to a nuclear power plant, powerline trails are easily accessable within 1/2 mi. from my driveway.
No need to transport my dirt bike to get to the trail. i have converted a KLX300 to dual sport, with street legal equipment/title.
It's a nice nimble/capable machine that can handle tough trails, mild MX, even some pavement riding in between trails.



Plenty of locals I met along the powerline in riding season:



even some water crossing action:



i used to have a street legal WR450F supermotard, but it was a bit more power than I need:

[subxero]

Some of the mid level dirt bikes might fit your needs like the wr's, klx's ect... but they are a large step down from the performance machines that are the mx bikes. So trying to get a good idea of what you want out of it and where you want to go with it can help narrow down that search. But when someone says there are mx tracks close and that is something they want to do, i feel like that points strongly to an mx bike. it is easier to make an mx bike better for the woods than it is to make a non mx bike better for the track or for just going faster in general.

[sparky80]

Are you planning on riding with your wife the majority of the time?? If so, ya might wanna take that into consideration too.

I've always been partial to the WR's. Great all around bike

[Proteus]

This was all very helpful. Think I'm going to look for a used 250F MX bike. I've read a few articles on what to look for with a used dirt bike, anyone have any other pointers? I'm thinking I might want to pick something up for a couple grand before I go and spend $9k on a brand new machine.

[subxero]

ask questions, look for general cleanliness. Some one who is OCD about keeping a dirt bike clean is generally someone who is OCD about keeping up on all maintenance. Keep a dirt bike spotless is next to impossible and takes a lot of work and typically taking it apart. And if they take it apart to clean it they are most likely replacing things as well.

Don't be fooled by new graphics and plastics, all dirt bikes get crashed someone who has all new plastic and graphics is just trying to make the bike look atheistically pleasing. If plastic looks new, ask if they have the take offs as well to see what they look like. Just because graphics and plastics are new doesn't mean they kept up with real maintenance.

Brakes are easy to see, just look at pads and rotors, they can be had pretty cheap so it is not such a big if they are not that great.

Something that can chew up cash especially if you are not doing it yourself are bearings, any and all, wheels, swing arm, linkage, steering. The steering bearings tend to last a while they don't get beat up as much as the others, but the wheel and linkage, swing arm bearings can go bad pretty regularly. With any luck the bike can be put on a stand you can firmly try and shake the wheels to feel for any looseness, same goes for swing arm and linkage, but often you can't tell much of anything until you take them apart. So ask if they have ever serviced linkage swing arm bearings, wheel bearings ect... at least to get an idea of how much work you might have to do. Again it is not a deal breaker and more often than not unless the owner was a real nut about maintenance the swing arm and linkage gets neglected. Probably looking at $100 to fix if you do work yourself, pretty easy with right tools.

The suspension, really just looking for cracked busted seals and any signs of oil leaking, wipe the inner tubes clean and pump up and down a few times and look for any oil residue. Typically goes neglected on most dirt bikes. Not a deal breaker but could be used to bargain price down. Rear shock is generally pretty robust just look for anything obviously wrong.

Tires, obviously, if they are badly worn expect around $90 to replace a rear and a little less for a front if you mount yourself. Some shops will mount for free if you buy tire there but tires are typically marked up. YMMV use condition of tires to bargain down if they are terrible.

Rim condition and check the spokes for tightness, several really loose spokes is a sign the guy doesn't keep up on much. It is not a big deal easy to remedy but again, that is why it is a good sign of how owner was with maintenance.

sprockets, not a big deal, fronts are cheap, rear steels can be had cheap as well. Aluminum and fancy aluminum steel combos are a waste of money unless you are racing or on a 125 2t or smaller, JMO

Bars and controls are self explanatory

check out the frame, mainly up front and under the engine, for any large bends dents, most of the other parts of the frame are pretty solid and don't sustain much damage.

on a 4t ask about valves, they should be checked pretty routinely IDK? maybe every 40hrs? maybe less? don't quote me on that.

ask about oil change interval? it should be very often

any odd looking spots on engine gaskets, moisture? obvious leaks ect...

Ask about top end rebuild, piston rings? again should happen every so often, not quite as often as a 2t but these are not ninja250's and they will need replaced every so often. 50hrs? give or take depending on how hard you are riding, if you are not WOT 80% of the time you are not riding that hard

Listen to the bike run, listen for cam chain, any odd sounds, obviously smoke from exhaust.

if carb ask about jetting, if done, if EFI ask about maps?

check out the exhaust header, just make sure it is not rusted through and not bent, 4t exhausts are expensive.

Ask if they have any receipts for any work or parts or take off parts. For my yz250 if i was trying to sell it i could show you every original stock part that has been replaced and you could probably have most of them for free and some are in working condition, clutches, springs, valves, flywheels, brakes, bearings, sprockets you name it.

People that take good care of their bike typically ask higher prices and note some of the work not just "to many mods/extras to list" Good maintenance and good documentation of it can be worth the extra cost. With that being said, they are still used bikes and get beat to piss and back. I would be hesitant to pay a dime more than $3500 for even the nicest most well kept used dirt bike i have ever seen. $1000 - $2000 for mediocre bikes of different age and $2k - $3.5k for decent to nice ones again of different ages.

hope this helps, don't be afraid to shoot me a PM with questions or anything if you find any bikes you are interested.

[jkv45]

I would recommend something smaller than a 230 for her if she is planning on doing mostly dirt riding.

On the dirt, light weight is king. Weight is the enemy. Power is not a priority.

Where are you moving to? I left the Chicago area in 2010, after 20 years, for WI.

[Proteus]

Thanks for the thorough replies @subxero. What do you think of 4-stroke 250 vs 2-stroke 125? The 125's I'm seeing on Craiglist are a few thousand cheaper than the 250's.

Originally Posted by jkv45

I would recommend something smaller than a 230 for her if she is planning on doing mostly dirt riding.

On the dirt, light weight is king. Weight is the enemy. Power is not a priority.

Where are you moving to? I left the Chicago area in 2010, after 20 years, for WI.

The CRF is listed at 249 lbs wet, that seems pretty light to me?

We're going to end up somewhere in the Miami-Fort Lauderdale area, just waiting for a job offer. I'm graduating from business school on Saturday and am in the interview process right now. The location is part of the reason I really want to try MX, as we'll be far closer to a MX track than good trail riding.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Thanks for the thorough replies @subxero. What do you think of 4-stroke 250 vs 2-stroke 125? The 125's I'm seeing on Craiglist are a few thousand cheaper than the 250's.

The CRF is listed at 249 lbs wet, that seems pretty light to me?

We're going to end up somewhere in the Miami-Fort Lauderdale area, just waiting for a job offer. I'm graduating from business school on Saturday and am in the interview process right now. The location is part of the reason I really want to try MX, as we'll be far closer to a MX track than good trail riding.

TLDR: 125 2t's are a blast on well groomed trails, in the open with good traction, much of anything else can be a chore. They are fun but I think for trails in particular you will enjoy a 250f 4t a lot more with a lot less cursing

You can see what @csmith12 said in one of the first responses. He is pretty spot on. I rode 125's 2t for a long time before I got my 250 2t. IMO they are a love hate relationship, you will love it when you are screaming on the track or logging roads or well maintained trails, and hill climbs with a decent run... and no breakers But rough tight trails, big rocks, any bit of mud or slick surface, roots, hills with no run at them at all can be annoying as hell, you will be cursing a lot on that kind of stuff. The power comes on quick and hard, they spin up real fast with little to no torque in the low rpms to build momentum which makes getting the power to the ground next to impossible for a lot of the trail type stuff. They can be a chore to ride on the trails for sure, you will work a clutch like you never thought possible. But they are light as can be, super flickable you can just throw them around, they are meant to be run on the pipe in the power band and nothing else and if you are able to ride it that way they are super fun. Difference between that and a 250f are night and day, ride a 125 2t for a day then jump on a 250f 4t the next and you will feel like you are cheating it is that much easier.

I rode 125's for a long time and I could get into situations that were just not do able on the bike no matter how good of a rider you are. Particularly muddy hill climbs with little to no run, it's like don't even waste your time, find another way around/up

I guess it kind of depends on the trails you have there? Here in South West PA we are known for, mud, rocks and hills which is everything a 125 2t hates but they are still ridable. If there are not many hills in your area, it might not be too bad to ride at all, it's really the mud hill combo around here that make them a chore. Even my 250 2t can be a bit of a bear on muddy hill climbs around here.


As far as bikes for your wife. if she rode the 230 and liked it then I wouldn't search to hard for other bikes. It is definitely heavy as far as dirt bikes go. That being said some of the small cc 4t's are actually really great and often with a lower seat but still very capable. My wife rides a klx125, that bike is so much fun even for me see video below. If I had the money though I would like to get her a new klx140 and in a perfect world a crf150r. The klx140 will do a lot and is easy and fun and at around 200lbs The crf150r is more performance oriented, well as much as a 150 can be but it comes with a way better suspension and just built way better but obviously costs more for that reason, uber light in the 190lb range (one thing to add to that) The crf150r will require more engine maintenance which is a draw back. The klx140 and or crf230 engines last a long time with out much hassle.

link to videos
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...68&postcount=1

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Proteus

The CRF is listed at 249 lbs wet, that seems pretty light to me?

Not for a dirt bike. Especially if you are not experienced or are small in stature.