Proper Braking Technique

[Seananniganss]

Well It's been about a week since I've gotten my bike, and I've been out there everyday trying to improve my riding skills. I've been getting pretty comfortable cruising around on the streets, but as I was riding around today a couple issues came up.

1. As I was coming to a quick stop, I thought I pressed on brakes smoothly, but as I grabbed harder, one of my wheels started to skid (not sure which one). I released the brakes and then reapplied quickly and that seemed to solve the problem. After that I was wary of pressing the brakes too hard out of fear that they would lock up again. Am I supposed to press and release repeatedly when coming to a quick stop? or can I hold down the brakes as I was doing? And what's the proper thing to do in a skid?

2. One time I was going around a corner at about 35, and there was a stop sign immediately at the end of the corner. I straightened the bike up and braked, and then continued through to the stop sign slowly. I know braking during a corner is supposed to be avoided at all costs, but what should I do in those situations? If I need to slow down during a corner, is that pretty much the only way (righting the bike and then slowing down)?

Thanks for all your help guys.

[xSean13]

1. Rear tire skid: you are supposed to ride it out; front tire skid: release & reapply (gently, not grabbing it). Although, if your rear tire starts to skid & your bike (the tire alignment) is still straight, then letting off & reapplying won't really hurt. The emphasis on riding it out is when your tires are no longer aligned, releasing the rear may cause a high side.

2. That's the best/safest way, if you aren't going very fast or in a sharp turn, then a little back brake won't hurt, however, a sudden stop, you should straighten up and apply the brakes as you said -- I had to do this at a stop light that just turned red around a corner (was going ~50mph) and ended up diagonal in my lane..but I stopped safely :P

[Alex]

1: More front brake, less rear brake.

2: You can brake in corners, but the amount you can brake is inversely proportional to the lean angle. If you can get up to straight up and down, you can apply full braking power. If you are leaned over any amount, the further over you are leaning, the less and less brakes would be useful, and at some point you exceed the available traction (and crash). Sounds like what you did worked fine. People get into trouble when they realize while in a corner they are going too quickly, and then add brake while in the corner to try and slow down; that's where it doesn't end well if & when they do exceed available traction.

[alex.s]

1. more gas.
2. more gas.

[Seananniganss]

What about letting off the gas while in a corner and letting the engine slow you down a bit? Does that produce the same effect as braking? or is that more acceptable?

[xSean13]

I think that letting off the throttle can cause the rear tire to skid, while cornering. I.e. going from let's say 60% throttle - 0% throttle.

If i'm wrong, someone will correct me

[edxmon]

I learned not to brake during a leaning turn, my bike started wobbling. Scary as ****

[dino74]

Originally Posted by Seananniganss

2. One time I was going around a corner at about 35, and there was a stop sign immediately at the end of the corner. I straightened the bike up and braked, and then continued through to the stop sign slowly. I know braking during a corner is supposed to be avoided at all costs, but what should I do in those situations? If I need to slow down during a corner, is that pretty much the only way (righting the bike and then slowing down)?

This is all IMHO...

Yes, you can brake while cornering but it requires a good feel for your bike. I has taken me 20+ trackdays to where I feel comfortable braking in corners.

However there is another solution. Keep your RPMs high (9K+) when entering a corner. Then slowly roll off the throttle to slow down. Some will say it will load your front and cause it to tuck. This only happens if you're close to the max lean angle which does not sound like you were.

[loz944]

I recommend reading this book it answers exactly those questions and many more

Proficient Motorcycling A Guide to Riding Well

Go buy ,borrow this book there is a pdf available on the net but its better to have the book in your hand and the author makes his money lol

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by xSean13

I think that letting off the throttle can cause the rear tire to skid, while cornering. I.e. going from let's say 60% throttle - 0% throttle.

If i'm wrong, someone will correct me

Engine braking (letting of the throttle) acts like rear wheel braking. It may not cause the rear tire to skid but it will upset the balance of the bikes chassis and cause issues mid turn.

However, downshifting during a corner and not matching revs will cause a rear tire skid and a prompt change of underwear.

Jeff

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Seananniganss

2. One time I was going around a corner at about 35, and there was a stop sign immediately at the end of the corner. I straightened the bike up and braked, and then continued through to the stop sign slowly. I know braking during a corner is supposed to be avoided at all costs, but what should I do in those situations? If I need to slow down during a corner, is that pretty much the only way (righting the bike and then slowing down)?

What you describe is the safest way, as long as you are riding inside the turn and have some room on the outside of the turn to go straight and brake.

In turns, like when riding at night, try not to go faster than you can see and stop safely.

You did well in both cases.

[Old Lemon]

yea engine breaking is great if you are going straight

[dino74]

Originally Posted by dino74

Then slowly roll off the throttle to slow down.

I realized "slowly" is the wrong term. "Smoothly" is better.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Engine braking (letting of the throttle) acts like rear wheel braking. It may not cause the rear tire to skid but it will upset the balance of the bikes chassis and cause issues mid turn.

However, downshifting during a corner and not matching revs will cause a rear tire skid and a prompt change of underwear.

Jeff

Yeah that's what I was getting at, in my head. Thanks!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by dino74

This is all IMHO...

Yes, you can brake while cornering but it requires a good feel for your bike. I has taken me 20+ trackdays to where I feel comfortable braking in corners.

However there is another solution. Keep your RPMs high (9K+) when entering a corner. Then slowly roll off the throttle to slow down. Some will say it will load your front and cause it to tuck. This only happens if you're close to the max lean angle which does not sound like you were.

do you turn in while engine braking? is that after you are done with most of your braking? are you still on the front brakes when you are turning in? when do you down shift, before during or after the main braking? and when dropping multiple gears, do you do all of them on a single clutch pull, or do you do them seperately, ie- drop a gear, blip, engage, drop another gear, blip, engage, go

sorry too many questions.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you turn in while engine braking? is that after you are done with most of your braking? are you still on the front brakes when you are turning in? when do you down shift, before during or after the main braking? and when dropping multiple gears, do you do all of them on a single clutch pull, or do you do them seperately, ie- drop a gear, blip, engage, drop another gear, blip, engage, go

sorry too many questions.
sorry too many questions
sorry too many questions
sorry too many questions
sorry too many questions

lol

[DaBlue1]

There is so much information on braking that I doubt all of it can be covered here, but it's a good start. Along with the info others have mentioned (and the Sticky Thread), there are also 21 Articles on Braking and two volumes of books on Motorcycle Safety and Dynamics from the Master Strategy Group, that may also be helpful.

[dino74]

This my two cents, everyone is different and there is no one right way. I'm not the fastest but I'm slowly getting faster.

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you turn in while engine braking?

Yes, usually for decreasing radius turns. I'm not comfortable downshifting during the turn so I need to be at the highest RPM entering the turn.

T16 CW. I come out of T15 in fifth gear. At T16, I downshift to fourth, then trail brake into the turn. So downshift then brake.

T6-7 CW or T5-4 CCW. The second turns are decreasing radius. So for the first turn, I go half throttle to the apex, then pin it to the tiger's teeth. At the TT, I go zero throttle and tighten the turn to the second apex then roll on. Once I was carrying too much speed, I felt the front starting to give so I learned where my limits are.

Originally Posted by alex.s

are you still on the front brakes when you are turning in?

Most of the time expect for T9. I don't push my luck there.

Originally Posted by alex.s

when do you down shift, before during or after the main braking?

Depends on the turn. Either before or during but not after.

Originally Posted by alex.s

and when dropping multiple gears, do you do all of them on a single clutch pull, or do you do them seperately, ie- drop a gear, blip, engage, drop another gear, blip, engage, go.

For me, always separately when dropping multiple gears. I stopped blipping because I found it hard to brake really hard while blipping. But last weekend, I started using Vesrah pads and OMG, Rexbo was right! They are awesome. So I might go back to blipping and braking since I don't have to pull so hard.

Just a little about my downshifting technique I learned from the Pridmore Star school. (I'm a big fan of Pridmore!) Previously, I'd pull the clutch/reduce throttle, down shift, release clutch/apply throttle. At the Star school, he teaches to use the throttle to match the RPMs on the down shift.

Lets say I need to downshift. Keep the throttle steady, but very quickly pull the clutch, downshift, release the clutch. The speed at which you pull and release the clutch depends on the throttle position. WOT= very fast pull/release. 1/4 WOT = not so fast. I'm still practicing it to get it smooth.

The stuff above isn't just for the track. I finally got my second Ninja 250 running and decided to take it for a midnight run last week. One turn was a little too fast but because my RPM were high entering the turn, I just rolled off the throttle and my line naturally tightened.

[alex.s]

about pridmores downshifting... is that for only second and third corners? or coming out of corners right? for example you wouldnt use that coming down a straight like the back straight going CCW into 10/9/8 would you? you are topped out in 5th on the back straight right? so coming into the back straight you would drop 2 gears right before the tiger teeth, then start braking hard at the TT? or would yoou be dropping them while hard on the brakes? the braking zone before 10/9/8 is easily my worst area.

i think what i usually wind up doing is braking not nearly hard enough between second and third markers before the tiger teeth and downshifting at the same time... i think i need to downshift and then get on the brakes hard and trail off into the turn in but i always screw it up

[dino74]

Originally Posted by alex.s

about pridmores downshifting...

Well a lot of the Pridmore stuff is geared towards 600cc+ bikes. So they'll only be downshifting one gear.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[alex.s]

i wish that video showed throttle also

[ally99]

It sounds like this thread has evolved from simple braking to braking/cornering techniques. This is my favorite thread on this site and will give you TONS of great, experience information.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ight=cornering

[alex.s]

someone should compile a thread with every post every made by misti.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by alex.s

someone should compile a thread with every post every made by misti.

I second that motion.

[tooblekain]

Originally Posted by dino74

This is all IMHO...

Yes, you can brake while cornering but it requires a good feel for your bike. I has taken me 20+ trackdays to where I feel comfortable braking in corners.

However there is another solution. Keep your RPMs high (9K+) when entering a corner. Then slowly roll off the throttle to slow down. Some will say it will load your front and cause it to tuck. This only happens if you're close to the max lean angle which does not sound like you were.

+1 This is a technique called trail braking. The other solution Dino mentions works wonders. I am coming from racing a Daytona 675 where trailbraking is used a lot more than when I rode Nemesis' Ninjette on the track

[alex.s]

on the 250, theres so much engine braking you hardly need to use the brakes when trailing in

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by alex.s

on the 250, theres so much engine braking you hardly need to use the brakes when trailing in

Then go faster!!!!

[alex.s]

you only want so much braking force when trailing in
ps sick avatar

[csmith12]

true dat!

[threadjack]
You like that avatar pic aye? Here is the next shutter click at a better res. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1337088513
[/endthreadjack]

[ARc]

Originally Posted by alex.s

1. more gas.
2. more gas.

Only works if you enter the corner at an appropriate speed. Only gonna help you hit the wall faster if you went in too hot.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ARc

Only works if you enter the corner at an appropriate speed. Only gonna help you hit the wall faster if you went in too hot.

oversteer