2009 ninja 250r engine ticking & knocking noise

[ubxssangz]

HI all,

Thank goodness for this forum.
I have a 2009 NINJA 250R, 6K miles, no modifications. I hope to give you as much details as possible.

Service History:
Got the bike used at about 4000 miles.
Flushed and replaced the coolant at about 4500 miles. After i passed the 5500 miles i noticed that i kept on loosing coolant and the heat signal kept on coming on when riding in low speeds . I kept on re-filling the reserve coolant tank up to that point then learned that i had to fill it from the filler neck, which was a little low in coolant. After that i have no problems with the bike heating up.
I have recently used seafoam on the gas tank for the last 2 consecutive fills(6 oz of seafoam with 3 gallons of gasoline).
I have also used seafoam right before an oil change 4 oz of seafoam and rode for about 75 miles. Again, i have used seafoam on the engine oil after the oil change, 4 oz of seafoam and rode for about 150 miles with new oil, then the sound started. Lastly, in order to cancel out problem, after this incident i changed the oil again and have not ridden the bike yet.
I have replaced both, front and rear break fluids 1 week before this noise.

Here is the Story.
I was riding on the highway doing about 90 mph on 90 degrees weather, when all of the sudden i felt that i was losing power followed by a LOUD knocking sound, i pulled the clutch (then the noise stopped when clutch is pulled in) and pulled over. I started the bike again and the knocking sound is there when idled.
I started riding the bike again, yes even with the noise and all the way home for about 25 miles. Both light came on (engine & heat) and when i accelerate both lights turn off. For the first 10 miles i was doing 50-55 mph then the noise started getting louder and it actually died on me then i pulled over again when at that point the bike would not start. I press the ignition switch but it would not start. After about 10 minutes it started again so i rode for another 5 miles and the bike died on me again and it wouldn't start. Let it sit for another 10 minutes and it started again and managed to get home. I changed the oil and filter and have not ridden the bike because the ticking and knocking sound are still there.

Please Help. Here is a link if you want to hear what it sounds like. The garage is closed when i took this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkd37R95wHk


Thanks for the help guys.

[csmith12]

oh dear.... that sounds of bearings.

[cuong-nutz]

Sounds like you have one of the spark plug boots disconnected and arching with one cylinder running.

You know you're not suppose to put seafoam in the oil unless you're trying to clean out the internals and replacing the oil soon afterwards. Seafoam will thin the oil out and you can kiss goodbye to your motor.

I'd check to make sure your oil isn't milky and sludged if you didn't know where your coolant is going.

[ubxssangz]

I have bought new sparkplugs but i am now missing the stupid spark plug wrench. Have to buy one at a local hardware store. I am also hearing something about the cam chaim???
So, right now i have 2 options:
1) spark plugs.
2) cam chain.

When i replaced the engine oil there wasn't any milky liquid coming out. However, there was milky thick oil on the crankcase/motor oil reservoir.

I also would like to know if you guys are refering to the thicking or knocking noise.

[modded]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

I have bought new sparkplugs but i am now missing the stupid spark plug wrench. Have to buy one at a local hardware store. I am also hearing something about the cam chaim???
So, right now i have 2 options:
1) spark plugs.
2) cam chain.

When i replaced the engine oil there wasn't any milky liquid coming out. However, there was milky thick oil on the crankcase/motor oil reservoir.

I also would like to know if you guys are refering to the thicking or knocking noise.

How much Seafoam did you add to your oil?

[DaBlue1]

Like mentioned before, there is really no need for Seafoam or engine flush in a motorcycle engine, especially one with very little mileage like your. That type of treatment is usually reserved for engine that have been sitting for years and the oil has started to turn to a tar like goop. Using Seafoam lowers/thins the viscosity of the oil.

From the sound of you video, it sounds as if you only have one cylinder firing and a spark plug that's loose/broken and arcing.

Do you have any signs of colored smoke coming out of your exhaust?

There's over a dozen things that can be wrong at this point. I'd start with the basics (fuel, plugs, air filter, carbs, battery, loose connections, etc ), then look into other stuff.

Here are a few things that could possibly be the cause of your issues.

Poor Running at Low Speed:

Spark weak:

Battery voltage low

Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted

Spark plug cap or high tension wiring trouble

Spark plug cap shorted or not in good contact

Spark plug incorrect

IC ignitor trouble (a bad one can cause timing and firing issues)

Crankshaft sensor trouble

Ignition coil trouble



Compression low:

Spark plug loose

Cylinder head not sufficiently tightened

No valve clearance

Cylinder, piston worn

Piston ring bad (worn, weak, broken, or sticking)

Piston ring/groove clearance excessive

Cylinder head warped

Cylinder head gasket damaged

Valve spring broken or weak

Valve not seating properly (valve bent, worn, or carbon accumulation on the seating surface)

Look at the Troubleshooting Guide for more potential causes

[ubxssangz]

i used 4 oz of seafoam in the engine oil.

I will try to change the sparkplug today and see what happens.

I also forgot to mention, if it means anythng, that as the sound started both lights (engine & heat) cam on and when i press on the accelerator they go off.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

.... the sound started both lights (engine & heat) came on and when i press on the accelerator they go off.

The engine temp/oil pressure light will come on;
1. at start up then turn off within a few seconds of running
2. when the oil pressure is too low ( too low idle speed can cause low oil pressure as well as a bad oil pump)
3. engine oil level is too low
4. engine oil poor quality or incorrect
5. overheating

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

The engine temp/oil pressure light will come on;
1. at start up then turn off within a few seconds of running
2. when the oil pressure is too low ( too low idle speed can cause low oil pressure as well as a bad oil pump)
3. engine oil level is too low
4. engine oil poor quality or incorrect
5. overheating

You think is because of leaving the seafoam to reach 150 miles?

I was trying to change the spark plug and one of the end is different on the new one. Take a look at the picture, what should I do?
Argggg, nothing is going right

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

You think is because of leaving the seafoam to reach 150 miles?

I was trying to change the spark plug and one of the end is different on the new one. Take a look at the picture, what should I do?
Argggg, nothing is going right

Change the oil and DO NOT put sea foam in. Make sure you are using motorcycle specific engine oil.

The spark plug at the bottom of your picture needs the end to be unscrewed to match the one just above it. Motorcycles don't need the end or else the boot what snap onto the plug when installing.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Change the oil and DO NOT put sea foam in. Make sure you are using motorcycle specific engine oil.

The spark plug at the bottom of your picture needs the end to be unscrewed to match the one just above it. Motorcycles don't need the end or else the boot what snap onto the plug when installing.

I went with my instincts and yes I unscrewed the end and changed the spark plugs, nothing changed. I have also changed the oil, Am I supposed to let the bike run for a while after the oil change for the ticking to hopefully go away? WTFFFFFF

[cuong-nutz]

Did you notice any metal flakes or sediment in any of your oil changes? Does the motor still sound the same since you changed the oil? Is the bike still making power or is it even slower/weaker than prior to power loss? Do a compression test and see what numbers you are getting in each cylinder.

If it's still ticking that loud, than that's not good. Sounds like bearing damage.

Try disconnected one of the spark plug wires while it's running and note any changes in each cylinder. Don't shock yourself too.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

.... I have also changed the oil,

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Did you notice any metal flakes or sediment in any of your oil changes?

....If it's still ticking that loud, than that's not good. Sounds like bearing damage.

A good place to check to make sure you have evidence of bearing damage, is the oil screen. You probably should have checked there before changing the oil.

Also do not rule out anything in the trouble shooting guide until you have inspected or tested it. Also from what you describe ("...i pulled the clutch (then the noise stopped when clutch is pulled in"), you may just want to have a look at your clutch also.

If you are not too mechanically savvy, have a pro troubleshoot and fix it for you may be your next step.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

A good place to check to make sure you have evidence of bearing damage, is the oil screen. You probably should have checked there before changing the oil.

Also do not rule out anything in the trouble shooting guide until you have inspected or tested it. Also from what you describe ("...i pulled the clutch (then the noise stopped when clutch is pulled in"), you may just want to have a look at your clutch also.

If you are not too mechanically savvy, have a pro troubleshoot and fix it for you may be your next step.

I did not notice any metal particles in the oil. When you say oil screen do you mean the oil filter?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

.... When you say oil screen do you mean the oil filter?

This....



You are looking for metal flakes (brassy or silver looking


...To rule out possibly of this or worse...

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

This....



You are looking for metal flakes (brassy or silver looking


...To rule out possibly of this or worse...

GREAT PICTURE, Thanks!!

Now what if i have particles and what if i do not see any particles?

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

GREAT PICTURE, Thanks!!

Now what if i have particles and what if i do not see any particles?

Metal flakes are a good indicator of internal engine damage. If you don't see any that may be a good sign.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Metal flakes are a good indicator of internal engine damage. If you don't see any that may be a good sign.

Had the time today to take out the oil screen and look what i found.
F********ck. what now? Don't even know wtf these parts are?
btw, i left both oil filter and oil screen opening open. Is it ok?


http://youtu.be/UO9Fsuv8S1E

[DaBlue1]

Not good.
Definitely some internal damage. Maybe cam journals, piston chunk? IDK.
The only thing to do now is open up the engine case and see for sure. Looks like the shop for you.

You can temporarily stuff a rag in the oil filter port or put the screen and cover back on. At this point there's no need to put oil back in it till it's fixed.

Good luck

[LR1914]

What the....

That's a lot more than flakes....

Wow.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by LR1914

What the....

That's a lot more than flakes....

Wow.

Alright guys, Thanks for all the help. Will update once i know what really happened.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Not good.
Definitely some internal damage. Maybe cam journals, piston chunk? IDK.
The only thing to do now is open up the engine case and see for sure. Looks like the shop for you.

You can temporarily stuff a rag in the oil filter port or put the screen and cover back on. At this point there's no need to put oil back in it till it's fixed.

Good luck

Any of you know around how much or how many hours it will take to repair?

[baxtc1]

Don't know about cost, but looks like you will be up for pistons. Hopefully the crank is still ok.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Not good.
Definitely some internal damage. Maybe cam journals, piston chunk? IDK.
The only thing to do now is open up the engine case and see for sure. Looks like the shop for you.

You can temporarily stuff a rag in the oil filter port or put the screen and cover back on. At this point there's no need to put oil back in it till it's fixed.

Good luck

Here is a look at the engine from the oil screen opening.
Is that rust? Should i do anything to it? spray seafoam?


http://youtu.be/aMd6W_BESo8

[parox91]

I used to have a ticking sound but after it got really bad I reset my cam chain tensioner and the sound went away... you might've skipped a tooth or something from the cam chain slipping... I would take it to a shop, might charge you a couple hundred or more

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by parox91

I used to have a ticking sound but after it got really bad I reset my cam chain tensioner and the sound went away... you might've skipped a tooth or something from the cam chain slipping... I would take it to a shop, might charge you a couple hundred or more

How do you reset the cct on a 2009 ninja 250

[parox91]

i have a pre-gen, sorry but the procedure should be similar at the least

you have to take off the right side fairing and then follow these directions:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cam_cha...sioner_removal

also read the 4th post in this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50930

if your bike already lost overall power you may have skipped a tooth... take it to a shop and hope for the best

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

Here is a look at the engine from the oil screen opening. Is that rust? Should i do anything to it? spray seafoam?

Keep some oil in it.

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

How do you reset the cct on a 2009 ninja 250

DIY: Cam Chain tensioner rebuild

Not sure why you are concerned about it. You've got bigger problems. The cam chain tensioner will be fixed when the engine is rebuilt as well as any other internal issue.

[parox91]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Keep some oil in it.




DIY: Cam Chain tensioner rebuild

Not sure why you are concerned about it. You've got bigger problems. The cam chain tensioner will be fixed when the engine is rebuilt as well as any other internal issue.

^ this. I just watched the video, you might be better off buying a used motor lol

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Keep some oil in it.




DIY: Cam Chain tensioner rebuild

Not sure why you are concerned about it. You've got bigger problems. The cam chain tensioner will be fixed when the engine is rebuilt as well as any other internal issue.

Not really concerned about it, but wanted to know just in case it happens in the future and mess around with it and see if that was the problem for the ticking before i take it to the shop.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by parox91

^ this. I just watched the video, you might be better off buying a used motor lol

Are you refering to the oil screen video with the 2 chunks of metal?

[cuong-nutz]

You're better off with a good used motor. Not worth the effort, time, and money to rebuild it and it will end up costing you more. That's rust you see and it looks like water had gotten into the engine where it sat for a while.

[ubxssangz]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

You're better off with a good used motor. Not worth the effort, time, and money to rebuild it and it will end up costing you more. That's rust you see and it looks like water had gotten into the engine where it sat for a while.

How many labor hours to put this remove old motor + install new motor?

[parox91]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

You're better off with a good used motor. Not worth the effort, time, and money to rebuild it and it will end up costing you more. That's rust you see and it looks like water had gotten into the engine where it sat for a while.

The thought of having rust in my engine makes my stomach turn...

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

How many labor hours to put this remove old motor + install new motor?

4 for a talented wrench turner. I did it in about 7ish while taking many pics, looking up stuff, having a few brews and basically enjoying some free time in the garage with the son.

An engine swap is easy, just take pics of everything along the way. Some tape and a marker go a long way to label questionable hoes, bolts and what not. Just stick the tape on and write down what it goes to.

Good luck!

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by ubxssangz

How many labor hours to put this remove old motor + install new motor?

You're looking at least 3 hours.

I guess my estimation is very optimistic lol

[keeblerkhan]

...anybody notice that this guy used water from a hose to clean his sight glass? I'm thinking he didn't remove the clutch cover before doing that. It would explain the rust and the motor generally hating life.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139312

When a motor sits for a long time it is possible for water (generally condensation) to collect in it. However, the water usually ends up at the very bottom of things since oil floats. It is usually also only a small amount of water that collects. I'm thinking UBX filled his motor with a substantial amount of water to get rust that high up in the transmission.

[Asspire]

also,

PUT THE SEAFOAM DOWN.....

that is all

[ubxssangz]

Any of you know of a good place where to get a reliable used motor near fort lee, nj?

[ubxssangz]

Relax bro, I answered a sarcastic comment with a sarcastic reply.