My crash in some twisties

[k24_cm7]

Sup guys, just sharing my crash on my ninja 250r in the twisties.

Long story short, as you will see in the video I end up target fixiating after what I sorta felt like coming into the corner a bit hot.
I think being tired also contributed to this, as I smack myself across the face everytime I see my crash, ive encountered this before and even practice this only to be beat by it and crashing!

here's the crash footage!

Link to original page on YouTube.

Here is footage from the same road following the faster bikes , around 8:50 a guy almost does the same thing (keep in mind this is the run before my crash) and that sorta stuck with me since I witness the whole thing, and the only thing that went through my mind during my crash was this !!!

Link to original page on YouTube.

everything seems so much faster in real life until you view it on your computer lol

[Sirref]

don't worry it happens. the good thing is that you are fine (you are fine right? didn't really seem hurt from the video) bikes can be fixed or replaced. you can't.

[cuong-nutz]

Me thinks you target fixate on the guy in front of you. You seem him cross the line and return back into this lane. Also, you were playing catch up and everyone slowed down at the turn which you can see yourself catch up to the guy in front of you going into the turn. You felt like you were getting close to him and target fixated to the side of the road to avoid getting any closer.

It happens a lot. Glad you're okay.

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by Sirref

don't worry it happens. the good thing is that you are fine (you are fine right? didn't really seem hurt from the video) bikes can be fixed or replaced. you can't.

no doubt, hopefully others can learn from thus mistake!

I incurred no damage, not even ripped pants... bike started up fine and well...no one would be able to tell I crashed unless I tell them...it was almost like this crash was meant to be to get it out of the way.

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Me thinks you target fixate on the guy in front of you. You seem him cross the line and return back into this lane. Also, you were playing catch up and everyone slowed down at the turn which you can see yourself catch up to the guy in front of you going into the turn. You felt like you were getting close to him and target fixated to the side of the road to avoid getting any closer.

It happens a lot. Glad you're okay.

although this happened a bit back I think you are quite right.. I remember freaking out a bit that turn because I felt like I came in too quick.. and yes following bigger bikes on a 250 can be a bit dangerous since ur always trying to close that gap.

no regrets for me though had a blast that day and learned tons that I'm applying while I'm riding to this day

[aeroblade]

Well glad to know you're ok buddy. How's the bike? Any pics?

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by aeroblade

Well glad to know you're ok buddy. How's the bike? Any pics?

I'll get some pics up when get onto my laptop later today.
bike just got a bit muddy..nothing a garden hose can't fix that pretty much was it..you can hear everyone shocked at the end of the video that there was no damage on the bike.

rode the bike the remainder of the road (took it slow not knowing potential damage) and then returned home 2 hrs away..these bikes are built quite well I must say

[aeroblade]

Well its always a good idea to do a through check up for any hidden damages if any. Other than that

[fishdip]

Title needs to be changed to guy who thinks he is cool crashes like a noob.

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Title needs to be changed to guy who thinks he is cool crashes like a noob.

oh you read my mind!! was hoping i could be as cool as you...guess not though...

PS. thanks for watching the video, u might not get that time u wasted back though

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

oh you read my mind!! was hoping i could be as cool as you...guess not though...

PS. thanks for watching the video, u might not get that time u wasted back though

It was not a waste it was funny as hell go be a noob and crash some more for us.
(YouTube always needs fresh crash video) But seriously even they guys on the 600 are riding like squids I am surprised they even made it around the turn.

[k24_cm7]

Lol so be a hero and drop some tips and suggestions, like I said when I pm'd you I'm always open to learn.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

Lol so be a hero and drop some tips and suggestions, like I said when I pm'd you I'm always open to learn.

Stop riding with that group. You are not going to get better with them only worse. Also I don't care who it is never try to follow there lines.

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Stop riding with that group. You are not going to get better with them only worse. Also I don't care who it is never try to follow there lines.

I agree, to set some things straight, this ride was recorded towards the beginning of the riding season since I am from Canada (short riding season). I only knew a few guys there and the rest were people I met the day of. It was a large group and I was told the guys who wanted to just cruise would stay to the back. So I didnt know all the riders experience...cant say the guy I was following was a good rider to be in the front but it is what it is.

got excited and went on the ride when I was invited, other than that Im a lone wolf practicing my skills on my bike. That was maybe my 3rd group ride? until now I havent went on another one so cut me some slack.

lol so hopefully this clears some stuff up to get your hate out, although it does not bug me I dont mind having peaceful conversations with others even if it is ripping on my skills.

on a plus side though, I was able to understand the concept of being smooth on the throttle like I learned in twist of the wrist 2.

[csmith12]

/me Sigh.....

Glad your good brah and the bike too but......

[begin broken record]
If your gunna ride like that on the street, then go to the track first to learn how to compose yourself and deal with SR's at pace. The street will be much more tame.
[end broken record]

[k24_cm7]

also, is there any resources or videos you would recommend on picking the best line? I have been trying to improve at this the past little bit of riding.

Another thing why Im open to suggestions and learning is , I dont ride with people nor do I hang out or have family that ride so everything I picked up thus far is NEW to me, only learning mainly from riding and youtube videos (no actual riding with other riders) so what ever bad habit i may have now I may never know of until it was mentioned.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

also, is there any resources or videos you would recommend on picking the best line? I have been trying to improve at this the past little bit of riding.

Another thing why Im open to suggestions and learning is , I dont ride with people nor do I hang out or have family that ride so everything I picked up thus far is NEW to me, only learning mainly from riding and youtube videos (no actual riding with other riders) so what ever bad habit i may have now I may never know of until it was mentioned.

Then you must have miss that part in twist of the wrist. No hate coming from me I have crashed 6 times destroying 4 of the bikes.

[k24_cm7]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Then you must have miss that part in twist of the wrist. No hate coming from me I have crashed 6 times destroying 4 of the bikes.

Must have been on the track though?

I will review the video again since its been about 2 months, I know the basics of picking the lines for a basic curve but sometimes I run into more tighter curves like s cruves or just overall tighter roads which I have some trouble picking the most effective/efficient line. But I guess this is where practice and persistence will pay off.


Thanks so far for the comments, learned lots.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

Must have been on the track though?

I will review the video again since its been about 2 months, I know the basics of picking the lines for a basic curve but sometimes I run into more tighter curves like s cruves or just overall tighter roads which I have some trouble picking the most effective/efficient line. But I guess this is where practice and persistence will pay off.


Thanks so far for the comments, learned lots.

Nope none of them. One was going down the interstate on one wheel and I hit a pot hole crashing.

[csmith12]

Check the link in my sig about looking through the corners.

[Aggrotech]

im so lost. that turn should have been cake..

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

im so lost. that turn should have been cake..

That's how target fixation works , cake or not ya know.

[k24_cm7]

Okay so I realized that I accidently posted the same link each time in my first post. I Just edited it to reflect the videos I was SUPPOSE to post.


I will admit the clip of the crash was VERY sloppy, that was our 3rd time down this 10min road so i was getting a bit tired, and that day i remember just trying to keep up with the bikes while maintaining good speed since my bike was very sluggish due to the heat. I was also stupid excited to ride that day since i have never been on nice long roads like that...if im lucky i can find a road that lasts about a minute locally.

Those two corners from the beginning of the video i will agree are terrible but i didnt want to have a 6 minute crash clip so i just got to the point and it turns out i just blew those turns at the time.

I love my 250 for its handling and not its speed but till this day (2yrs later) im still enjoying every ride with it not understanding why people sell their bikes after 3 months of riding. I focus and practice on gaining better skills with the bike, i even thought about tracking the 250 next year.


**this is the link added in the original post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDjLEbePhSU

[k24_cm7]

oh and before i get flammed again, in the other link i posted, like i said earlier i havent rode that much in groups so my etiquette was off ..

again i am open to criticism to help improve for next time.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

oh and before i get flammed again, in the other link i posted, like i said earlier i havent rode that much in groups so my etiquette was off ..

again i am open to criticism to help improve for next time.

Next time stay in the back of the pack.

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by csmith12

That's how target fixation works , cake or not ya know.

lol but...how?!?!

the turn is almost...non existent D:

[IF13]

Glad you're still kicking it.

I keep looking at the clouds in your vid. It was way too beautiful of a day to dump the bike but at least you're up and posting.

Hope you get back to riding soon.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by k24_cm7

.........again i am open to criticism to help improve for next time.

Drew,

If you stop the first video at 0:57 and measure the angle of lean respect to the vertical, you will see that it was around 28~30 degrees.

That is much lower than the lean angle that you bike and tires can reach before they skid sideways.

Your perception of limit of traction is still very different from the reality.
That perception is associated to lean angle and G forces that you feel and compute in every turn.

You hit your mental limit in that curve: in your mind a low side fall was imminent, and your survival reaction was increasing the radius of turn.
There was no target fixation in my opinion, only contact patches hitting low traction surface while carrying a lot of lateral force.

Your error was joining a group ride.
Each member of that group had his own very personal perception of limit of traction.
For some riders that was 25 degrees, for you was 30, for others was 40 or even 45.
But you didn't know those personal limits or the feel of each curve of that play-road.

Other riders pulled you into that curve "too hot" according to your perception, suddenly you did run out of space, and the SR took over from that point on.
The simple fact that other bikes made that turn at similar speed demonstrates that you were not too hot for those conditions.
I see no benefit in group rides for inexperienced riders.

As Chris has advised above, a track day is designed to change and expand your personal perception of limit of traction, bringing it up closer to reality.
You are pulled into the same curve many times, increasing your speed gradually.
You will reach your personal perception of limit, but then, you will be pulled to go just a little faster next time, realizing that 30 degrees was not the real limit, but 33, ......wait, I made it at 36 this last time, and 39, and so on.
At the end of the day, your personal perception of limit of traction has increased 10 degrees !!!

Am I explaining the difference between both methods of learning thru practice simply enough?

[sheH4TEme2]

Oh man, my heart was pounding for you. I've been there man. As long as you're ok, that's all that matters.

[deeno415]

@ 8:51 of 2nd video... looks like the rider in front almost loses it too!

I'm very much still a noob! Most of my riding is in the city & freeway amongst cagers. Watching your video, I would really focus on entry speed, your lines through the turns & rolling smoothly on the throttle. There are a few times where you roll off the throttle (in the turn) and that will only cause you to stand the bike upright, and cause you to run off the road (like you did).

I'm also trying to work on these same skills! Glad you & your bike are ok...

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

a track day is designed to change and expand your personal perception of limit of traction, bringing it up closer to reality

That's da good stuff! Imma use this in the near future Motofool.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

That's da good stuff! Imma use this in the near future Motofool.

Please do !!!

It is not mine, I have read the concept in the book "Motorcycle Track Day Handbook" by Kent Larson

[rasta]

Great post @Motofool! So, if you ever enter a curve too hot, the best thing to do is look thru the turn, increase lean, and roll on the throttle?

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by rasta

Great post @Motofool! So, if you ever enter a curve too hot, the best thing to do is look thru the turn, increase lean, and roll on the throttle?

No you want to lock the back brake let off of it and hammer the throttle drifting around the curve like a boss.

[algs26]

How come it seems like you're hugging the inside line all the way through the turns?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rasta

Great post @Motofool! So, if you ever enter a curve too hot, the best thing to do is look thru the turn, increase lean, and roll on the throttle?

Yes, but only if you believe it but you are wrong.
If you actually have more traction to use (although you "estimate" that you don't), doing what you describe will properly use part of that reserve.

However, you are not really too hot for conditions until you start dragging hard parts or skidding.
If so is happening, then, reducing speed quickly is your only chance to make it.
If you have room, you should try straightening the bike up, braking hard and re-leaning (some trail braking may be mixed during that move).

Speed is the major factor in cornering and is the invisible thing that we tend to overlook.
We like working on lines and body positions, but speed is much more influential in making a turn or not.
The reason is that lateral forces on the tires depend linearly on the radius of the turn, but also depend on the square of the speed.

Never enter a curve too hot !!!
You are not a good rider until no curve is able to surprise you, we should plan each turn.

Regarding speed, you should do all the homework associated to a curve before you physically enter that turn.

For curves that you are not familiar with and cannot study and figure out entirely for your pre-turn homework, just slowdown the entry speed, so you have a wide margin for any type of emergencies.

[Asspire]

y'all ride like dicks, plus that looks like creemore area, lots of OPP up there to be riding like that, save it for the track, your gonna lose your licence and/or your life doing that on the street. No need to be giving motorcyclist a bad image riding like that.

And stay away from group rides that big, nothing good can come of it.




edit: also, buy an R6

[rasta]

Good point, @Motofool. At this point in my riding, if I enter a curve "too hot", it's most likely only my perception that I'm going too fast. When in reality, just some extra leaning and throttle roll is all I need. If I understand you correctly

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by rasta

Good point, @Motofool. At this point in my riding, if I enter a curve "too hot", it's most likely only my perception that I'm going too fast. When in reality, just some extra leaning and throttle roll is all I need. If I understand you correctly

Yep, you understood perfectly.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

lol but...how?!?!

I think it can be represented like this;

(((((turn/skill)+traction)*speed)/attention)√execution)-((traction/(random*chaos))) = target fixation

like whoa....