Reduce Engine Braking?

[tnr4]

I have a very ill-formed question, which may not even make any sense. But I have noticed lately that the only aspect of the 300 that is less than ideal for me is the level of braking the engine will sometimes do when I let off the throttle. Depending on gear and rpms, it can be very hard to ease off the throttle without the engine slowing me down aggressively enough to really compress the front suspension.

So: is there a way to change this? What would even need to be changed? Is that something that could be done by reprogramming the ECU? It's definitely not a huge deal, and it's a great ride regardless; but if I can change it, I will. Thanks!

[Jiggles]

Yep retune the ecu to add a bit more fuel when you let go of the throttle at higher rpms . It'll cut down you mileage a bit

[tooblekain]

Learn to blip down shift or modulate clutch.

[rc racer]

I thought the 300 had a slipper clutch?

[tooblekain]

Originally Posted by rc racer

I thought the 300 had a slipper clutch?

Whether it does or doesn't...unless you can adjust when the slipper clutch activates you're still better off learning how to blip downshift or clutch modulate. Even racers still do it when they have slippers. Slipper clutches can't save ALL of the aggressiveness of engine braking.

Plus, blipping downshift or clutch modulation is a transferable skill set. Brake pads are cheaper to replace than clutch plates.

[lgk]

i have not experimented with the decel fuel cut feature on my ECU yet, but i'm pretty certain it plays a role in how effective the engine braking is.

[allanoue]

Remove the slipper clutch. No wait, it's there so you can be more aggressive down shifting.

Be a lot more aggressive down shifting.

[Joshorilla]

Stay at a lower rpm? Less engine braking when you let go at 4krpm then at 8krpm, and more fuel efficient.

[lgk]

also maybe the front suspension needs improvement.

maybe different springs and emulator.

[Jiggles]

The correct answer would be to upshift not downshift people

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The correct answer would be to upshift not downshift people

Correct!

You want more leverage of the rear tire over the crankshaft; hence, less reduction (higher gears).

The slipper clutch should not function under normal engine-braking loads.

"They are designed to partially disengage or "slip" when the rear wheel tries to drive the engine faster than it would run under its own power. The engine braking forces in conventional clutches will normally be transmitted back along the drive chain causing the rear wheel to hop, chatter or lose traction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipper_clutch

The only way to limit the braking of the engine would be keeping the air intake cracked open, while cutting the fuel supply.

[alex.s]

in the OPs case, it sounds a lot like user error.

in a more general case, raising the idle will reduce the effective amount of 'engine brake' the player feels

[tnr4]

Thanks folks! Jiggles and lgk: that's exactly what I was wondering about. I don't have any trouble shifting -- silky smooth up and super easy to rev match by blipping on the way down (mutch easier than my triumph was). I'm asking specifically about the point where you have to get off the throttle but not shift. The ninja requires a VERY delicate touch to not cut really uprubtly. Not always. Just sometimes. I may look into how to play around with the ecu.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by tnr4

Thanks folks! Jiggles and lgk: that's exactly what I was wondering about. I don't have any trouble shifting -- silky smooth up and super easy to rev match by blipping on the way down (mutch easier than my triumph was). I'm asking specifically about the point where you have to get off the throttle but not shift. The ninja requires a VERY delicate touch to not cut really uprubtly. Not always. Just sometimes. I may look into how to play around with the ecu.

Was your triumph carbed? I think what you are experiencing is sort of standard with EFI

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the idle will reduce the effective amount of 'engine brake' the player feels

Who told u I was a player?

[alex.s]

oh. uh. sorry. force of habbit

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by alex.s

oh. uh. sorry. force of habbit to call a user a player.

We get it you make games holy ****

[alex.s]

anyway, if you are talking about going from on the gas to off the gas at the top of the rev range... thats just what its like in a high strung motor. be smoother with the throttle roll off instead of chopping the throttle

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

We get it you make games holy ****

have i ever told you that you're retarded

[Jiggles]

Why no, I don't believe you have.

I was just tuggin ur nuts bro, no need to be gay about it

[Alex]

Interesting. My first few rides on the 300, I was taken aback by how little engine braking there was. When you come completely off the throttle, it just coasts for a much longer period, and with much less effort, than both my new-gen 250, and just about any other bike I can remember. I attributed it then to riding the 300 in a higher gear (and therefore lower revs) than the 250, but this doesn't mean extremely low revs; it's just that the new bike is more comfortable in the 7k - 8k range than the 250 was, so there isn't as much a need to keep the bike spinning 10K+ for many situations.

Before chasing the challenging, I'd start with the basics first.

- rear wheel alignment spot-on
- chain properly adjusted and lubed
- oil level in motor spot-on, and reasonably fresh
- no brake drag front/rear

If the bike is feeling like it's stopping abruptly when coming off the throttle, all I can say is that isn't anything like what I'm seeing with mine. YMMV.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Alex

- no brake drag front/rear

oooooo i like that idea

[csmith12]

Sitting farther back in the seat, knees/legs squeezing the tank and keeping loose on the bars will help if that last little bit of roll off is choppy.

I recommend you ride it that way for a bit longer and work it out by skill, then address the bike itself to give you more room for error.

Welcome to throttle control level 3.

[csmith12]

You might also think about shaving a few more mph off before a downshift or full roll off. I have to do that when switching back and forth between my R6 and 250.

[slowninja]

Originally Posted by tooblekain

Whether it does or doesn't...unless you can adjust when the slipper clutch activates you're still better off learning how to blip downshift or clutch modulate. Even racers still do it when they have slippers. Slipper clutches can't save ALL of the aggressiveness of engine braking.

Plus, blipping downshift or clutch modulation is a transferable skill set. Brake pads are cheaper to replace than clutch plates.

Is this what its called in the moto world? We called this rev-match downshift in standard shift cars. I do it on my bike as well. It sounds pretty cool when you have an aftermarket exhaust on.

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by Alex

Interesting. My first few rides on the 300, I was taken aback by how little engine braking there was. When you come completely off the throttle, it just coasts for a much longer period, and with much less effort, than both my new-gen 250, and just about any other bike I can remember. I attributed it then to riding the 300 in a higher gear (and therefore lower revs) than the 250, but this doesn't mean extremely low revs; it's just that the new bike is more comfortable in the 7k - 8k range than the 250 was, so there isn't as much a need to keep the bike spinning 10K+ for many situations.

Before chasing the challenging, I'd start with the basics first.

- rear wheel alignment spot-on
- chain properly adjusted and lubed
- oil level in motor spot-on, and reasonably fresh
- no brake drag front/rear

If the bike is feeling like it's stopping abruptly when coming off the throttle, all I can say is that isn't anything like what I'm seeing with mine. YMMV.

Good thoughts. At first I had the same reaction to the 300, because, like I said, the off throttle aprubtness isn't all the time, and when it doesn't happen, it's much smoother than my Triumph was (which was FI). But my Triumph did get better when I retuned the ECU (updated map), so that's why I thought there might generally be room for improvement with ECU management.

But, @Alex, now you have me thinking about chain and brakes. I have noticed it more recently (after, say, mile 1700 or so), so I thought maybe weather was part of the equation (it's been 30s-50s most of the time). But I also have ridden through a bunch of mucky, rainy days, so maybe the chain is dirty/dry, and/or the brake pads are gunked up and dragging. I cleaned her up good lubed up the chain (it was dry as a bone! ) and cleaned the pads and calipers. I'll take her out tomorrow and see how it goes.

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Sitting farther back in the seat, knees/legs squeezing the tank and keeping loose on the bars will help if that last little bit of roll off is choppy.

I recommend you ride it that way for a bit longer and work it out by skill, then address the bike itself to give you more room for error.

Welcome to throttle control level 3.

I like this too. The seating position on this bike is just a tad more forward, so I do think I have been putting more weight on my wrists than I had trained myself to do on my Street Triple. Another thought about the recentness of the observation: I ride less (and less aggressively) when the weather cools, so I may just be out of practice. This all arose because yesterday it got into the upper 50s, so I hit the only nearby twisty roads a bit. I felt a little 'two left feet' in general since it's off-season, so this might have more to do with it than I thought. I guess I just need to get out more, even when it's cold!

[rojoracing53]

I think what we really need here is an auto decelerator sensor to control forward thrusting G-Forces. Then we can throw it on the list of useless ECU controlled crap that doesn't belong on a motorcycle in the first place.

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I think what we really need here is an auto decelerator sensor to control forward thrusting G-Forces. Then we can throw it on the list of useless ECU controlled crap that doesn't belong on a motorcycle in the first place.

Uh... huh... okay, touchy subject, lol.

Anyway, @Alex, you may be a genius. Just got back from a quick ride -- temps are in the 30s, but it finally stopped raining, so I went out for just a bit. FEELS GREAT! Don't know if it was the chain or brakes, but cleaning them both and lubing up the chain seems to have made a huge difference. On the way back, I also worked more on taking the weight off my wrist, and noticed that this did, in fact, further help smooth on/off throttle transitions. Thanks, hive mind!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by tnr4

Anyway, @Alex, you may be a genius.

Tell my wife.

[old3]

Raise the gearing. +1 counter shaft sprocket and you will have lower RPM per road speeds and it will lessen the effects at the same speeds.

If you are really getting an abrupt effect you are either really ham fisting the process or there is a problem.