200lb rider on an 11 yro pre-gen; suspension upgrades?

[aelath]

This is my first motorcycle and I am having an all-out blast right now. The bike has 18k miles on it. I just put a new chain and sprockets on, put everything back together and took her for a test ride last night; smooth smooth smooth power transition now as I roll on or off the throttle! I love it!

I am a couple months into riding the bike and I am curious if I should upgrade/fix the suspension. I don't really know what to expect, but the suspension feels 'soft'. Lots of brake dive and very spongy. No leaking oil on the forks or obvious damage, so I think things are in good working order. I get around just fine, but I would really like something stiffer. In general I like stiff suspension in my vehicles, and this bike is for fun only, so I don't need to be super comfy or anything. I have read the ninja250 FAQ on suspension upgrades, and it looks like there are a lot of options out there, I just don't know what to choose.

Can anyone chime in on heavy guy suspension modes/upgrades that you would suggest? FWIW I am planning on taking her to my first track day next month. Thanks in advance!

[dcj13]

Hi Jacob. I, too, am of similar build as you and interested in possible upgrades to the front and rear suspension.

For my BMW, I had good luck with Klaus at epmperf.com in New Jersey. He fixed me up with YSS Hyperpro stuff, set up for my weight and riding style.

If you don't contact Klaus about your pregen Ninjette, perhaps I will.

If you get to it before I do, please let us know what you find out.

[ForceofWill]

Do you have a budget in mind or just want better suspension. You could do new fork springs and emulators plus a gsxr rear shock for about $350

[jenkem]

A super easy and cheap budget option would be a 2008 or newer rear shock swap and some heavier fork oil. The new gen shock is actually a decent upgrade considering how cheap and easy it is. Upgrading the forks, unfortunately, is a bit more involved.

[csmith12]

Here are the realistic upgrades at a high level.

Gsxr 600 shock in the rear (08-10)
Get dogbones that will set the geometry that you want
Get the proper spring for your fully geared weight

Respring front for you weight (racetech or the like)
Get some emulators
Choose a fork oil weight
Choose a size of preload spacer for the front
Fork caps that allow for preload adjustment (optional)

Set sag, preload (on entire bike), HS/LS compression and damping (rear) (damping on front via fork oil)

Grand total should be around 7 bills for new stuff. It's a lot I know.

[kxpower?]

Welcome to the the org Jacob! :: Good to see a fellow TN'er here, even if you're still a ways from me (I'm outside of Nashville).

I'm a little lighter than you (165ish) but wanted preload adjustment and the ability to carry an adult passenger once in a while so I upgraded to the 08+ shock. Paid $20 to a lady turning her 08 into a track bike off craigslist.

I haven't ridden it since I installed it (discovered a bad head gasket ), but just sitting with my weight on the bike it's a good inch higher.

If I were in your shoes I might do the new gen shock and some heavier fork oil and see what you think. Cost and time should be pretty minimal that way.

My 2 cents...

Originally Posted by aelath

This is my first motorcycle and I am having an all-out blast right now. The bike has 18k miles on it. I just put a new chain and sprockets on, put everything back together and took her for a test ride last night; smooth smooth smooth power transition now as I roll on or off the throttle! I love it!

I am a couple months into riding the bike and I am curious if I should upgrade/fix the suspension. I don't really know what to expect, but the suspension feels 'soft'. Lots of brake dive and very spongy. No leaking oil on the forks or obvious damage, so I think things are in good working order. I get around just fine, but I would really like something stiffer. In general I like stiff suspension in my vehicles, and this bike is for fun only, so I don't need to be super comfy or anything. I have read the ninja250 FAQ on suspension upgrades, and it looks like there are a lot of options out there, I just don't know what to choose.

Can anyone chime in on heavy guy suspension modes/upgrades that you would suggest? FWIW I am planning on taking her to my first track day next month. Thanks in advance!

[aelath]

Thanks for the thoughts guys! I love the range of responses; cheap to dream. Much appreciated. Budget: Unfortunately not $700, although I wish I could spend that much on my bike right now. Probably more like <$200 for this first round. Which I think takes me out of going with a specialty shop. I have been watching ebay for an old Fox Racing adjustable rear shock, but even with them 20 years old and beat up they still are selling for $300+.

Ideally, with my low-capital buy-in, I would like to start with something that I can try out and build on. I would like a little extra height, so the new-gen rear shock sounds like its right up my ally. I was originally thinking of going for some heavier spring rates for the front forks.

It is time to do my fork seals (per service manual) so I was thinking I would pull the forks, swap for some stronger springs (use the calculator to fit my weight) and then upgrade fork oil weight to something heavier? Couple that with a swap to the 08+ 250 rear shock and I may be fine for the season.

One question is what extra benefit do I get from emulators (if I do springs/fork oil)? The amount of adjustment and fine tuning on the front suspension boggle my mind.

[Josh_kcco]

i have a 2004 250 ninja. i found a 2013 ninja 300 shock and have to the preload on 4. to me its perfect. a lot stiffer then the stock on. and the sag isnt as bad on throttle. feels easier to throw around turns as well. im 5'11" 170. o newgen 250 will be good as well. to my understanding the 300 shock is stiffer then the newgen 250

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by aelath

One question is what extra benefit do I get from emulators (if I do springs/fork oil)? The amount of adjustment and fine tuning on the front suspension boggle my mind.

Teach a man to fish time.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Now if your budget is 2 bills and you want the most bang for your buck, here is an idea.

Get the gsxr/300 shock. Even though both shocks used are about the same price, the gsxr shock will require some dogbone solution. To my knowledge (2nd hand) the 300 and the newgen 250 shock are pretty much the same aside of valving. Either way... gsxr or 300, you will get a rear shock upgrade for sub $50.

Now the all important front...
Fork oil is a no brainer - $12 big ones. lol
A piece of pvc for a preload spacer (DIY) - $5 George Washington's hahahahah
Cheap hacksaw from big lots - $7 bucks

So for sub $100 and some time you can have a semi decent suspension setup for street riding and even some novice pace track time before you start wanting more.

What do ya think about that?

[InvisiBill]

The RaceTech calculator (which may not be perfectly accurate) suggests 65% stiffer fork springs for your weight. With that much difference, I think it's probably good to get the new springs. They should be under $100.

That's similar to the difference in spring rates for me on my EX500. Upgrading the springs should help a lot. If the springs are providing the proper support for your weight, the fork/shock's damping won't be working as hard trying to constrain crazy bouncing. Going to stiffer springs can actually result in a plusher ride if the current springs are so weak the wheels are just flailing around uncontrolled.

RT's calc doesn't show info for the PreGen rear. If the NewGen's 520# spring is a good rate for you, that could be a great drop-in budget upgrade (I've got one on my EX500 at the moment). Even if it's still a fairly low quality, budget OEM shock, it at least has preload adjustment and is hopefully closer to the right spring rate for you. You should be able to find them for $50 or less (possibly much less) on eBay.

Emulators or Intiminators will improve the damping control of the forks. The stock damper rod setup uses holes of a set size and fork oil of a set weight to provide a set damping rate. This rate will be perfect for a certain size bump, an inherently too soft for smaller bumps and too hard for bigger bumps. Both Emulators and Intiminators add some fancier control of the damping. In my non-expert mind, the Intiminator seems like a smarter way of handling it, but I don't have any firsthand experience with Emulators (sold mine for the Intiminators before I got around to installing them).

http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...ension_Preload has a ton of info explaining why and how to set the sag/preload. You might need or want to tweak it a bit after doing the math, but it should get you pretty close, rather than just messing around with it until you think you find something good.

[aelath]

Originally Posted by csmith12

What do ya think about that?

That sounds fantastic, actually. Just started looking for shocks tonight on ebay. Gonna snag me one. Thanks for linking the video and the DIY on spacers... that makes a lot of sense.

InvisiBill, thanks for the thoughts on springs and front fork helpers. Still something I am thinking about... really only want to take the forks apart once this year.

Josh_kcco, nice to hear from someone running the 300 shock. I still can't believe I am running a shock without a preload... gotta change that!

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Now if your budget is 2 bills and you want the most bang for your buck, here is an idea.

Get the gsxr/300 shock. Even though both shocks used are about the same price, the gsxr shock will require some dogbone solution. To my knowledge (2nd hand) the 300 and the newgen 250 shock are pretty much the same aside of valving. Either way... gsxr or 3000, you will get a rear shock upgrade for sub $50.

Now the all important front...
Fork oil is a no brainer - $12 big ones. lol
A piece of pvc for a preload spacer (DIY) - $5 George Washington's hahahahah
Cheap hacksaw from big lots - $7 bucks

So for sub $100 and some time you can have a semi decent suspension setup for street riding and even some novice pace track time before you start wanting more.

What do ya think about that?

Gonna second this. If you have something to grind with and a drill, buy the GSXR shock and do that for the rear. Very cheap upgrade. Then start with oil/spacers for the front and see how you like it. If you come by another 90 bucks you can pick up some front springs on amazon for cheap. Emulators are expensive but great.

[psych0hans]

Hi buddy, re spring your front from sonic springs and put in some heavier oil... That's the easier mod. Next, like some other people have recommended put in a gsxr rear shock, but that's a bit of DIY required. Also get custom dog bones to increase the height as gsxr shock might reduce your ride height. Good luck!

[stubshaft]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Hi buddy, re spring your front from sonic springs and put in some heavier oil... That's the easier mod. Next, like some other people have recommended put in a gsxr rear shock, but that's a bit of DIY required. Also get custom dog bones to increase the height as gsxr shock might reduce your ride height. Good luck!

+1 - On the above. You and I weigh about the same. I went with some Sonic Springs IIRC .90 springs and 15wt fork oil. The '08 600 GSXR shock has a 9.4 kg spring which is perfect for my fat a$$.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by stubshaft

+1 - On the above. You and I weigh about the same. I went with some Sonic Springs IIRC .90 springs and 15wt fork oil. The '08 600 GSXR shock has a 9.4 kg spring which is perfect for my fat a$$.

I weigh about 82.5% of you... lol Also, I went with a .70 spring and 13.5(approx) weight oil along with a set of gold valve emulators. Also, I used an 8.0 spring on the rear, GSXR-600 shock.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by aelath

That sounds fantastic, actually. Just started looking for shocks tonight on ebay. Gonna snag me one. Thanks for linking the video and the DIY on spacers... that makes a lot of sense.

InvisiBill, thanks for the thoughts on springs and front fork helpers. Still something I am thinking about... really only want to take the forks apart once this year.

Josh_kcco, nice to hear from someone running the 300 shock. I still can't believe I am running a shock without a preload... gotta change that!

Judging by http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Install...rs_and_springs, the PreGen forks look nearly identical to the EX500 forks. It's possible to swap springs without disassembling the fork. Just pop the cap off, pull the spring out, and drop the new one in. Obviously you can't drill out the damper rod for emulator installation without taking them apart.

You might be able to add a drain screw to easily change the oil. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...rk_Drain_Screw The Gen1 had drain screws, but the Gen2 didn't, so a lot of people add one. If you're going to be experimenting with different oil weights, it should make life easier.

Regarding DIY spacers:

Originally Posted by http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Measuring_front-end_sag

Problems occur when people twist the sag information and think that adjusting the sag when on the WRONG spring (for instance, stockers with 4" of spacer) will improve the bike. Again, the right tool for the job is the way to go.

I don't agree with everything on that page (specifically "[Sag measurement] doesn't really matter." and "the length of your springs + spacers should be the same as in the stock EX250"), but I strongly agree with the main point. Sag/preload is a way of tweaking the operation of the spring (see the link in my previous post). It is not a substitute for correcting a spring with the wrong rate. If you have springs of the proper rate with a proper preload setting, your free and static sag numbers will naturally fall into the proper range. If you have the wrong springs, you'll never get ideal results, no matter how much you tweak it.

[Binary Maestro]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

I don't agree with everything on that page (specifically "[Sag measurement] doesn't really matter." and "the length of your springs + spacers should be the same as in the stock EX250"), but I strongly agree with the main point. Sag/preload is a way of tweaking the operation of the spring (see the link in my previous post).

Why do you disagree with this? This winter I upgraded my suspension using Sonic Springs .75kg and a rear shock from the zx600. I cut my front spacers to be equal to that of the originals with the spacer. I haven't rode very much yet. But it was a little rough and I'm not sure were its coming from. (could be new tires and pressure, settings on rear shock, or the front spring spacers)
What would you recommend for cutting the spacers? It did seem like I had to compress more on the top cap to push it into the fork before putting the retaining clip in.
Thanks

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Binary Maestro

Why do you disagree with this? This winter I upgraded my suspension using Sonic Springs .75kg and a rear shock from the zx600. I cut my front spacers to be equal to that of the originals with the spacer. I haven't rode very much yet. But it was a little rough and I'm not sure were its coming from. (could be new tires and pressure, settings on rear shock, or the front spring spacers)
What would you recommend for cutting the spacers? It did seem like I had to compress more on the top cap to push it into the fork before putting the retaining clip in.
Thanks

I assume the FAQ is exaggerating that they should always be the exact same total length as the stock parts so as to keep people from trying to mask a weak spring by adding a ton of preload.

I believe that sag does matter if you want to optimally tune your suspension. To change the sag, you change the amount of preload, which is changed by altering the length of the spacer. It should be a fine-tuning step after you get springs of the proper rate. It's not a substitute for the correct springs, and you probably shouldn't bother with it if your spring rates are way off.

If it's the case that spacer lengths should never ever be changed, then preload adjuster fork caps (which just push the spacer down more, effectively increasing spacer length) should never ever be used. The preload adjuster on the rear shock serves the same purpose, so that should also never ever be moved. Silly, right?

Depending on how close the OEM setup is, getting springs of the proper rate and using stock-ish length spacers will probably put you in the right neighborhood (meaning you don't need to worry about sag measurements), as opposed to just cranking up the preload on springs that are way too soft. If you want to tweak your suspension after you get the right spring rates, start taking measurements and adjusting the spacer length to give you the preload/sag settings you're after.

[csmith12]

^^^^ this

InvisiBill speaks logic... Although, real life factors come into play. Preload adjustment caps can be of value as one's riding venue changes and warrants the change. Dem pesky bumpty tracks... Also, as one's skill increases at cornering, a simple one or two rotation turn on preload trackside, is much better than a fork rebuild during lunch.

The black art, voodoo of suspension is NOT a "by the books" measure. The RIDER dictates the final settings, not a ruler.

I have buddies who have their preload maxed out, that doesn't make it right or wrong. It just means they are happy with the current settings and make it work for them. For example; At Putnam park, I ran my fastest laps on the stock suspension, all changes I have made thus far, has slowed me down, despite racetech recommended front springs and a gsxr rear.

[NinjaDucky]

Originally Posted by aelath

Thanks for the thoughts guys! I love the range of responses; cheap to dream. Much appreciated. Budget: Unfortunately not $700, although I wish I could spend that much on my bike right now. Probably more like <$200 for this first round. Which I think takes me out of going with a specialty shop. I have been watching ebay for an old Fox Racing adjustable rear shock, but even with them 20 years old and beat up they still are selling for $300+.

Ideally, with my low-capital buy-in, I would like to start with something that I can try out and build on. I would like a little extra height, so the new-gen rear shock sounds like its right up my ally. I was originally thinking of going for some heavier spring rates for the front forks.

It is time to do my fork seals (per service manual) so I was thinking I would pull the forks, swap for some stronger springs (use the calculator to fit my weight) and then upgrade fork oil weight to something heavier? Couple that with a swap to the 08+ 250 rear shock and I may be fine for the season.

One question is what extra benefit do I get from emulators (if I do springs/fork oil)? The amount of adjustment and fine tuning on the front suspension boggle my mind.

im not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, kinda just hitting this at a glance and the thread is TLDR for me at the moment. but the EX500 rear shock and front springs up to 2009 should be interchangeable with your bike, i have a 2003 just like yours and im about to (as we speak) go and install an EX500 rear shock on my bike to help support my rather generous physique. i got mine for $37 off ebay with shipping from a used bike. and you can get new EX500 front springs for about $80 there as well. again, verify me on those front springs, but should be a great and inexpensive way to upgrade. that and the oil in the front shocks.

bottom line is you should be able to upgrade to all ex500 parts for your suspension for under $200 if youre thrifty, but you always run the gambit on used parts.

[NinjaDucky]

Quick update. I swapped the rear on mine with the EX500 shock I got from eBay and it fit perfectly. Bit soft but adjusting the preload will fix that. If you do go this route try to adjust your preload before installing and if you are 200 lbs or so then you will likely need a lot of preload. Mine came with the adjuster about half way (stock setting I believe) is say you may wanna adjust it to between 80% and 100% preload. Though again mines at about 50% and its not too shabby

[InvisiBill]

The EX500 shock uses a 300# spring. That's only about 2/3 the stiffness of the PreGen's stock spring. Unless you're trying to soften the rear end, I'd suggest swapping the PreGen spring on if you're switching to the EX500 shock. In my eyes, the only improvement the EX500 shock has is the preload adjuster. Personally, I put a NewGen shock on my EX500 because its spring is the right rate for my weight (73% stiffer than the EX500 stocker).

The EX500 fork springs are .585kg/mm. That's an upgrade from the PreGen's .440kg/mm springs, but still not all that stiff. According to RaceTech's calculator (which may not be 100% accurate), that's good for a ~110lb rider. You can buy new springs in the correct rate from Sonic for $80, so it seems silly to settle for EX500 springs (unless they happen to match what you need) for the same price. If you already have some sitting around or can get them dirt cheap, it's something to consider, but it's probably a mediocre upgrade for many people and not saving all that much money compared to just buying the right part. Compare the cost and benefit in your own situation and figure out if it's a good value or not.

[aelath]

Alright, so I started looking at the GSXR shock considering how many people are chiming in on it. Surprisingly, its cheaper than the new-gen 250 or 300 shock (used on eBay) but I still haven't been able to find solid info on installing it on a pre-gen. Jumped around the net for the last hour trying to find a DIY (even just trying to find one for custom dogbones). The best I found was csmith12's swap on his new-gen... which if I understand correctly is a bit different than how it would fit on a pre-gen?

I am not afraid of a challenge (especially if it means a better riding experience) but I have limited access to grinding tools and a drill press. AND I need my bike seat to go up, not down.

[csmith12]

I don't remember doing a DIY Jacob . I followed this threads lead. Should be basically the same for you on a pregen. The main difference will be insuring the reservoir doesn't hit anything.

I used a dremel and a cordless drill. I just put the part to be drilled in a vice.

Here is a link to a bone solution that is cheap!

[aelath]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I don't remember doing a DIY Jacob . I followed this threads lead. Should be basically the same for you on a pregen. The main difference will be insuring the reservoir doesn't hit anything.

Whoops, right. I think I saw you linking to that writeup somewhere else. My bad.

I appreciate the links! Realized that if I end up doing the GSXR600 shock I should do a DIY writeup... since it seems like info is lacking. Of course they stopped selling pre-gens nearly 7 years ago, so maybe there is a reason info is scarce.

[csmith12]

Yes, please do, that would be awesome!

[aelath]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Here is a link to a bone solution that is cheap!

^^This looks pretty cool. Its hard to beat $17 for something like that. Problem is, the site says explicitly 'for 2008+ ninja250 ONLY' ... makes me wonder how different the dogbones are from pre-gen to new-gen?

PS - Just bought my GSXR600 shock on eBay: $34 shipped. It will be a slower road than the J-series or 300 shock, but (hopefully) it will be more rewarding. I am a sucker for DIY jobs.

[csmith12]

I think I have my pregen bones in the garage already off. I will see if I can get a measure on them.

[ForceofWill]

My DIY is right in the DIY list on this forum. The only thing that might be different is the mounting hole size but you can just check that easy. I've heard you might not even need dogbones for the pre-gen.

[InvisiBill]

Looking at the parts fiche, the PreGen appears to use a more complex dogbone than the NewGen. The Gen1 and Gen2 EX500s use different bones too, and the PreGen's look similar to the Gen1's (though it's not the exact same part number).

Gen1


Gen2


If it's just for spacing, it looks like the early style should provide a bit more room, as they bow outward a little to two separate mounting points on the swingarm.

[aelath]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

My DIY is right in the DIY list on this forum. The only thing that might be different is the mounting hole size but you can just check that easy. I've heard you might not even need dogbones for the pre-gen.

Yep, found it! I have seen quite a bit of information regarding installs on 08+, but I was hoping to find something that would be pre-gen specific. The main reason is that I am still new to the Ninja and lack familiarity with how the pre-gen and new-gen differ.

Any info and dogbones is very helpful, thanks! Also, if anyone knows if there is an issue with the piggyback fitment that would be great. The ninja250 FAQ wiki mentions that I will have to ditch my airbox and/or relocate my battery. 0_o

[aelath]

Update: Just bought my sonic springs 0.80 kg/mm and some 15 wt fork oil. Gonna pick up some fork seals from my local dealer and do the whole job at the same time. I feel like I am headed int he right direction, can't wait to get my bike stiff!

[aelath]

Update: Trying to get the GSX-R600 shock to fit on the pre-gen. Its gonna be tight... the piggyback resivor is bumping up against the battery and air box. Kinda funny 'cause now I understand what faq.ninja250.org was talking about. I am not saying it can't be done (won't know for sure until I get the GSX-R shock mount filed down to fit on the dogbone knuckle), but it will be interesting.
Speaking of dogbones, its not necessary to swap them with shorter ones the pre-gen because the pre-gen shock and the GSX-R600 shock are the same length bolt-hole to bolt-hole. Now if I could only get it to fit...

[Ninjinsky]

I put a GPZ500 shock in mine and it works really well definitely firms up the rear and is a straight bolt in.
(I realise this contradicts InvisiBill's post but that is my experience, definitely firmer and others report the same, Possibly the UK GPZ500 and the US EX500 are different?)

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Judging by http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Install...rs_and_springs, the PreGen forks look nearly identical to the EX500 forks. It's possible to swap springs without disassembling the fork. Just pop the cap off, pull the spring out, and drop the new one in. Obviously you can't drill out the damper rod for emulator installation without taking them apart.

You might be able to add a drain screw to easily change the oil. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...rk_Drain_Screw The Gen1 had drain screws, but the Gen2 didn't, so a lot of people add one. If you're going to be experimenting with different oil weights, it should make life easier.

Regarding DIY spacers:


I don't agree with everything on that page (specifically "[Sag measurement] doesn't really matter." and "the length of your springs + spacers should be the same as in the stock EX250"), but I strongly agree with the main point. Sag/preload is a way of tweaking the operation of the spring (see the link in my previous post). It is not a substitute for correcting a spring with the wrong rate. If you have springs of the proper rate with a proper preload setting, your free and static sag numbers will naturally fall into the proper range. If you have the wrong springs, you'll never get ideal results, no matter how much you tweak it.

Wow this was highly informative. Thank you. Sonic springs come with spacers I believe. Has anyone done the fork drain screw mod on their pregen?

[aelath]

Update: I finally removed enough material from the lower mount of the GSX-R600 (2008) shock to line it up. I popped it in during broad daylight this afternoon... it didn't fit!!! The pre-gen has a bracket welded to the top suspension frame mount that extends straight back and bolts into the rain/mud wheel cover. And the piggy back bumps right into that bracket, leaving the top mount 1/2 inch too low for the bolt to fit. Soooooooooooo.... suck.

Currently thinking about what to do. I still have the sonic springs et al for a front end job, but the rear now has my attention. I was originally going to go with the new-gen (08+) 250 rear shock or the 300 rear shock if the GSX-R shock didn't fit, but now that I have tasted the forbidden fruit of adjustable dampening.... I can't help but want it.

At the moment I am referencing another thread (https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97764) and thinking about going for a rear shock from a 95 ZX6R, the one with the remote nitrogen canister. I would like the GSX-R shock, but I don't really want to cut on my frame just yet, even though it is an arguably small and irrelevant modification. PLUS, it does look I may run into more issues fitting the battery/airbox even if I do cut the bracket off.

Sigh... gotta get my bike back together so I can ride.

[kxpower?]

Originally Posted by aelath

Update: I finally removed enough material from the lower mount of the GSX-R600 (2008) shock to line it up. I popped it in during broad daylight this afternoon... it didn't fit!!! The pre-gen has a bracket welded to the top suspension frame mount that extends straight back and bolts into the rain/mud wheel cover. And the piggy back bumps right into that bracket, leaving the top mount 1/2 inch too low for the bolt to fit. Soooooooooooo.... suck.

Currently thinking about what to do. I still have the sonic springs et al for a front end job, but the rear now has my attention. I was originally going to go with the new-gen (08+) 250 rear shock or the 300 rear shock if the GSX-R shock didn't fit, but now that I have tasted the forbidden fruit of adjustable dampening.... I can't help but want it.

At the moment I am referencing another thread (https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97764) and thinking about going for a rear shock from a 95 ZX6R, the one with the remote nitrogen canister. I would like the GSX-R shock, but I don't really want to cut on my frame just yet, even though it is an arguably small and irrelevant modification. PLUS, it does look I may run into more issues fitting the battery/airbox even if I do cut the bracket off.

Sigh... gotta get my bike back together so I can ride.

Man I hate that this has become such an ordeal!!!

I can't help you get that shock mounted, but if you can see yourself living without the damping adjustment (which BTW I count as an advanced tuning item, not something I'd even want to mess around with), a guy just listed takeoffs from an 08+ track bike here: https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=176032

You might get in touch with him.

Good luck man!

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

I put a GPZ500 shock in mine and it works really well definitely firms up the rear and is a straight bolt in.
(I realise this contradicts InvisiBill's post but that is my experience, definitely firmer and others report the same, Possibly the UK GPZ500 and the US EX500 are different?)

The GPZ may be different, but all years of the US EX500 ('87 - '09) used the 45014-1365 shock. How much preload do you have on the spring? On the EX500, you want about 275# of preload (just under 15/16" on the 300#/in spring) on it to get the free sag in the right area. The PreGen shock that I got on eBay had only 190# of preload on it based on the fixed location of the upper mount (7/16" compression on the 440#/in spring). I don't know the ideal measurements for a PreGen, but a softer spring with lots of preload could feel firmer than a heavier spring with too little preload (at the expense of blocking out some of the spring's range).

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by aelath

Currently thinking about what to do. I still have the sonic springs et al for a front end job, but the rear now has my attention. I was originally going to go with the new-gen (08+) 250 rear shock or the 300 rear shock if the GSX-R shock didn't fit, but now that I have tasted the forbidden fruit of adjustable dampening.... I can't help but want it.

At the moment I am referencing another thread (https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97764) and thinking about going for a rear shock from a 95 ZX6R, the one with the remote nitrogen canister. I would like the GSX-R shock, but I don't really want to cut on my frame just yet, even though it is an arguably small and irrelevant modification. PLUS, it does look I may run into more issues fitting the battery/airbox even if I do cut the bracket off.

It sounds like the PreGen is similar to the EX500, in that there's not a lot of physical space for upgraded shocks. If the NewGen/300's spring rate of 520#/in (18% stiffer than the PreGen's spring) is in the right range for your weight, that should give you a decent bump in suspension performance with basically no work. The shock is about 5/16" longer by my measurements, so it'll lift the rear a little too. Getting a spring in the right range for the weight it's supporting gives it a neutral bounce, so the shock has less work to do trying to control the movements than when it's flailing around with a way-too-weak spring. A fancier shock is better (I just recently snagged a used Penske for my bike), but just getting the right spring will help a ton, even on the same/equal shock.

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...hock-Swap-Myth

Originally Posted by Shock Swap Myth

While I understand the reasons why people swap shocks from one bike to another, often the basic underlying engineering principals behind what makes a shock work correctly are often over looked or ignored.

This is coming from someone who has had shocks from two different bikes installed, so don't think I'm trying to say that you should never try a shock from another bike on yours. However, keep in mind that there are a lot of details involved in the operation of a suspension system. Just randomly picking a shock off another bike is likely to give you bad results, even if the shock works great in its original bike. You need to take into account the spring rate, stroke length, and the valving (and how they work with the hard parts on the bike), on top of just whether or not it has more adjustment features.

[spent_too_much]

I know that I am chiming a little late, but I am a 200# rider ( without gear ) on a 2000 250R.

As I was new to this bike, I went the easy, and validated method of just bolting in an 08+ 250 rear shock. Install was a peice of cake, and no modifications at all were required. I found no change in ride height.

For the front, I used the spring calculator and went with Race Tech springs .80 and 15 wt fork oil.

The rear shock was set at two "clicks", and was a dramatic improvement over my stock shock.

I was concerned that I might have gone too heay on the front springs, but not so. I should have ordered a bit heavier spring.

Overall, for about $175 it was worth it. Everything was "plug and play" and made a positive difference in handling.

After riding with this set up, I might adjust the rear another "click" to 3 - for the preload, and increase the spacer in the front to increase preload.

I hope this helps others in their decision making.