June 2nd, 2017, 08:38 AM | #1 | |
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Roundabout Lowside. Cold & Wet Road Caused It?
Link to original page on YouTube. Quote:
His speed was 29mph entering the roundabout. He brought his speed up to 33mph while leaning over. After his tyres lost grip you can glimpse his dash displaying 36mph. I didn't get the sense he gave it much throttle, so presumably the jump from 33 to 36 was just the wheels spinning up faster after they broke free of the surface. He had 1 finger on the front brake lever. Did he grab it? I noticed his back light flash on just before he turned steeply in. How hard did he brake? Did this upset the suspension? Did he get throttle jolt (I can get this quite badly on my bike) when he switched from decelerating to accelerating? I'm guessing he was holding the bars too tightly which didn't allow the bars to turn by themselves to account for his lean angle and any imperfections in the road surface; this overloaded the available grip of the front tyre causing the front wheel to tuck. Anyone got any better ideas or observations?
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June 2nd, 2017, 09:46 AM | #2 |
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Yes, too much throttle and power for the wet road. Just because the display went from 33mph to 36mph, doesn't mean that little power was applied. He could've been at 100% throttle and there was only enough traction to allow a 33 -> 36mph acceleration. That 36mph may just have been the limit. Doesn't matter if he was at 25% or 50% or 100% throttle, anything over the traction limit was too much.
To help with these situations, keep the bike as upright as possible. Lean the body inwards while keeping the bike upright. Then when too much power is applied, it would just spin the back tyre. However, the bike will be stable and will go in a straight line with the back tyre spinning. In this case, it doesn't matter how much or how little traction there is, the back tyre can be spinning at 36mph or 100mph, it will still be much more stable than when leaned over. |
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June 2nd, 2017, 10:01 AM | #3 |
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It's hard to admit when we just make a mistake.
Instead we blame it on tires, cold, wet, traffic, other riders or anything else that will make us forget that we are the cause of our suffering. |
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June 2nd, 2017, 10:34 AM | #4 |
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The cause of the crash was the riders lack of judgement.
There are some nit-picky contributing factors such as:
It was not the road conditions that caused the crash, rather the lack of judgement and not making adjustments to compensate for the existing conditions. |
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June 2nd, 2017, 12:05 PM | #5 |
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imho... there is no mystery here
You have to watch it at least 2 times to figger it out. We have been told time and time and time and time and time again that turning + throttle will put you on your tail. I am sure the surface conditions didn't help, but it is not an excuse for the rider. Watch it AND hear it... you will know. Poor chap, but he was geared to the T...
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June 2nd, 2017, 12:32 PM | #6 |
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June 2nd, 2017, 03:59 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
What about the factors that Chocula mentioned? Do you think giving it too much throttle played a much bigger role than those factors? Personally, I didn't see that his speed was excessive. I don't think I would have taken that roundabout any slower than he did.
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June 2nd, 2017, 04:31 PM | #8 |
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If.... he was an experience rider
I don't think he was going to fast. He did have a line that wasn't ideal, but was workable He did make steering corrections (throttle + steering) Can't say if his tires were cold or not??? Wet/damp pavement I am sure was a factor At the speeds in the video, being crossed up doesn't help but isn't the cause either... perhaps a contributing factor Too much lean angle? Dunno for sure, vid is unclear but doesn't lead to that conclusion Adding lean + throttle = skidmarks.... Are there reasons why he had to add lean? sure! The video starts out with him shaking his head that something isn't right. I don't know for sure what that is. imho, these are self fulfilling prophecies. Learning to catch them early enough is what is hard. :\
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June 3rd, 2017, 07:52 AM | #9 |
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Those roundabouts in Britain, Scotland and Ireland can be soooooooo sketchy. Often the type of pavement in the roundabout is different from the roads leading into and out of it, they seem to be surfaced with a type of blacktop that's meant to last a long time and just like tires that are meant to last there's not as much traction Did you see how large the aggregate was in the pavementof the roundabout? I've had some scary experiences with roundabouts.
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June 5th, 2017, 06:22 AM | #10 |
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What do you mean by "the aggregate"? I haven't heard that word used in that context before.
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June 5th, 2017, 06:59 AM | #11 |
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June 5th, 2017, 07:17 AM | #12 |
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Size of the rocks in the road surface.
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June 5th, 2017, 10:13 AM | #13 |
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June 5th, 2017, 10:15 AM | #14 |
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I think the line chosen made it worse. He veers to the left when entering the roundabout, than sharply turns right. If he had hugged the right side more, he wouldn't have needed to steer so suddenly and caused large weight-shift and lean.
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June 5th, 2017, 11:07 AM | #15 | |
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Quote:
You can use a wide variety of mineral types as aggregate for making an asphalt (tarmac) mixture. A while back the governments of some islands in the pacific decided to use crushed-up coral as the aggregate. You can still find some of these roads today, like in the quieter parts of Guam. As these coral-aggregate roads weathered and wore under usage (traffic) the exposed bits of coral became polished (like little pieces of jewelry) and you wouldn't believe how slick these roads are, especially when it rains. On Andersen AFB at the north end of Guam there are old, worn coral-aggregate roads that are hard to walk or run on when they're wet. |
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June 5th, 2017, 03:03 PM | #16 |
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Heck, at end of Market here in S.F., there's some tile sidewalks around Embarcadero buildings that's treacherous even when dry! When it rains, I walk in street to avoid falling!!!
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June 6th, 2017, 08:56 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
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June 6th, 2017, 11:07 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
On Andersen AFB (circa 1990's was my timeframe) slip-n-fall injuries on these old roads were so common that a warning about the situation was included in the mass "incoming brief" given at the base auditorium to personnel temporarily stationed. |
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