[motorcycle.com] - Riding with a Gun

[Ninjette Newsbot]

Regardless of an individual’s position on firearms, the simple fact of the matter is that motorcycle ownership and firearm ownership often go hand in hand.

There are millions of peaceable, law-abiding, motorcyclists who own firearms for a wide variety of reasons, typically personal protection or for the simple enjoyment of target shooting or hunting. You’ve probably heard it a million times and argued for or against it in several different ways, but the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution.

But that right to bear is not absolute, and exercising it properly has a lot in common with riding your favorite two-wheeler on public roads. Simply put, enjoying either freedom requires tremendous discipline in order to avoid running afoul of local laws. Ignorance of a specific law is no excuse, and that includes laws governing a person’s right to carry, or even transport, a firearm on a motorcycle. Riding with a gun is easy to do and nothing to be afraid of, but it is the responsibility of any motorcyclist to ensure that he or she transports any firearm in a manner that is compliant with the laws governing their route.

After enduring California’s mandatory 10-day waiting period, Sean rode to his favorite local gun shop to retrieve our loaned Springfield test pistol.


Knowing what is allowable, and what is required, under federal, state and local laws can mean the difference between being able to exercise a right and possibly losing it for good. Get it right, and there is really nothing to fear. Get it wrong and you could face fines, arrest, court appearances, or even incarceration…. A loss of mucho dinero – or worse – no matter how you slice it.

Ignorance of a specific law is no excuse, and that includes laws governing a person’s right to carry, or even transport, a firearm on a motorcycle.

Please note our wording from above: “a person’s right to carry, or even transport…”, we worded it that way because those two terms refer to distinctly different acts in the legal context of firearms. “Carrying” a firearm is the act of having a ready to use firearm on your person or easily accessible on/in your vehicle. However, “transporting” is simply the act of moving personal firearm(s) from one place to another. In the eyes of the law “carrying” is a much more serious and complex issue.

Franky, we wanted to know the ins and outs ourselves, because several Motorcycle.com staffers are avid shooters who naturally also happen to spend a lot of time on motorcycles. It is logical to assume that we aren’t alone, so transporting a firearm on a motorcycle without a concealed carry permit is a subject of great interest to us. Thus, we did some digging and found workable solutions for most situations.

That said, it important to note that we are not dispensing legal advice here, and neither we nor our parent company should be considered liable for any legal hassles that arise from following the suggestions contained herein. Anyone considering the transportation of a firearm while riding a motorcycle should contact their local law enforcement agencies or check with an attorney to clarify the legal requirements in their locales. In the end, it is your responsibility to know and obey the specific laws governing your ride route(s).

We chose Springfield Armory’s XD-9 Essentials pistol for our feature. This affordable 9mm semi-automatic is a popular choice among firearms enthusiasts.


For this investigation, Motorcycle.com began with the support of Springfield Armory and the loan of a brand new Springfield XD Essentials 9mm pistol. As with most of his personal firearms, our Editorial Director, Sean Alexander, chose the XD-9 for the primary purpose of target shooting, although its 4-inch barrel offers a nice compromise between compactness and providing sufficient velocity for the 9mm cartridge to do its most effective work in a self-defense situation. Frankly, a tiny “carry” pistol wasn’t something in which we were interested, since none of us currently possess a CCW permit in our home state of California.* At the range the relatively inexpensive XD proved surprisingly nice to shoot with a natural pointing ability and smooth cycling from shot to shot.* It was also extremely accurate for a sub-$500 production pistol straight out of the box and it reliably fed and fired several different types of ball target and hollow-point defense ammunition ranging from 115 – 147 grains.* It’s an impressive piece, especially considering its $459.99 price point at our local gun store.

Assuming that a firearm owner is in good legal standing to transport a firearm for lawful purposes but does not possess a concealed carry permit for their state or county, transporting a firearm on a motorcycle can be done, but we’ve found that it must be done a certain way in most states if you want to avoid being hassled by the man.

In some states, the process is easy-peasy. Currently, a number of states are classified as “unrestricted,” meaning that a person in good legal standing can even open carry or conceal the firearm during transport with no permit required. These states include Alaska, Arizona, Idaho (effective July 1, 2016), Kansas, Maine, Vermont, West Virginia (effective June 5, 2016) and Wyoming. For the rest of the United States, concealed carry and open carry are subject to restriction either by the state as a whole or even from city to city or from county to county. The waters are especially murky if you live in New York or Maryland, where the Big Apple itself prohibits possession of any firearm while traveling within the city limits unless you have a state-issued permit. Likewise, Washington D.C. has restrictive possession and carry laws.

If you’re a motorcyclist who has made the decision to purchase a firearm, your responsibilities are just beginning. After taking delivery, the first thing you need to think about is how to transport your new purchase without running afoul of the law should you be stopped by police.


Our recommendation? Know the requirements of these areas before you make the decision to ride a motorcycle with a gun in your possession, or just avoid these parts of the country altogether. If you do get stopped in one of these restrictive areas, it is best to make it clear from the get-go that you are just passing through, and that may not fly at all if you happen to be pulled over on a surface street in downtown Manhattan or Washington D.C..

The good news is that federal law recognizes the right of any law-abiding citizen to transport a firearm from point to point for lawful purposes as long as certain conditions are met. Title 18 Section 926(a) The Peaceable Journey Act, under Part 1, Chapter 44, of the federal code provides that:

“Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation, the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, that in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.”

That’s comforting, except that what constitutes “lawful transport” may vary from state to state, and being stopped by law enforcement and found to be in possession of a firearm in places with more stringent gun regulations, such as New York, Washington D.C., Illinois or California, may create hassles you never dreamed of. For instance, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii (on handguns only), Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York also have laws that restrict magazine capacity on semi-automatic firearms — usually to 10 rounds — and it is a major violation for anyone to import magazines able to accept more rounds than are allowed in those states.

For motorcyclists, transporting a firearm “out of reach” means placing the firearm into a locked gun case and then placing that case inside a saddlebag or backpack whenever possible. Keeping any ammunition inside the other locked saddlebag, or in a separate locked box within the backpack is a smart way to go.


So, as you can see, transporting a firearm lawfully and for legal purposes requires a lot of careful research, but does that mean you shouldn’t do it? That’s your decision to make. We would, but we’re also confident that our method of transportation will survive legal scrutiny.

First and foremost, most states require that any firearm transported –for lawful purposes from one place where it is legal to possess it to another place where it is legal to possess it– be unloaded. That’s common sense but it’s also just the tip of the iceberg.

It is important to note that slipping an unloaded firearm into your jacket pocket and heading out on the highway is an invitation to trouble, since that constitutes a “carry” situation and most states require a permit if you want to “carry” concealed (out of sight). While it is true that carry permit reciprocity between states has increased over the past few years, if you plan to carry a concealed firearm in a restricted state you need to be absolutely certain that where you are going recognizes the permit issued by your home state. Otherwise, things could quickly turn criminally ugly.

But if you don’t have a specific permit, the smartest way to avoid a “carry” hassle is simply to follow the rules of the Peaceable Journey Act by keeping your firearm stored in a locked container out of your immediate reach during transport. For motorcyclists, that means transporting the firearm in a locked container within a saddlebag or backpack whenever possible, and keeping any ammunition in a separate locked container, like the other saddlebag, or a separate locked box.

The luxury of saddlebags means the author is able to place the locked pistol case into one bag, while placing the locked ammo box (green box in Scott’s left hand above) into the other saddle bag prior to transport.


What if you don’t have a lockable case or a saddlebag in which to store your gun during “transport”? Even more precautions should be taken, such as rendering the firearm inoperable via the addition of a trigger lock, long padlock or a lockable cable that extends through the breech, the barrel or the magazine well of your gun. If you should be pulled over and are asked to present the firearm to a law enforcement officer, the fact that you are transporting a firearm locked in this manner will act as a strong signal to the officer that your intention is not to commit a crime or violate any “carry” laws.

And how would an officer know that you have a firearm in your backpack or saddlebag? Simple: If stopped for any reason, you’re going to calmly and clearly declare it. Immediately.

And how would an officer know that you have a firearm in your backpack or saddlebag? Simple: If stopped for any reason, you’re going to calmly and clearly declare it. Immediately. That in itself may sound like an invitation to search and seizure, and you might feel that such an admission right off the bat is somehow violating your right to privacy. If you want to set that kind of adversarial tone, more power to ya’, but you may already be in violation of the law if you keep your mouth shut because several states — even some with unrestricted carry and transport laws — have enacted “Duty to Inform” statutes that make it incumbent on any person in possession of a firearm to inform the officer of that fact when they interact with law enforcement.

Alaska (Alaska Stat. Ann. §11.61.220), Arkansas (Ark Admin. Code 130.00.8-3-2(b), Delaware (Griffen v. State, 47 A.3d 487), Illinois (430 ILCS 66/10), Louisiana, Michigan (MCL 28.425f(3)), Nebraska (Neb. Rev. Stat. §69-2440), North Carolina (N.C. Gen. Stat. Ann. §14-415.11), Ohio (Ohio Rev. Code Ann. §2923.16), Oklahoma (Okla. Stat. Ann. ***. 21, §1290.8), South Carolina (§23-31-215) and Texas (must provide permit when asked for ID, §411.205) all have such statutes on the books, but even if you’re not sure whether the state you’re in has such a law, our suggestion is still to let the officer know that you are responsibly and lawfully transporting your firearm, and if he or she asks to see it, you should calmly and slowly tell them where it is and ask for their permission to get it out beforeyou go reaching for it.

More than likely, doing so will put the officer’s mind at ease that your intent is to comply with the law and that you are willing to cooperate fully. That simple act will often go a long way toward helping you if you are actually in violation of some obscure law or another minor offense such as speeding. Granted, it’s no guarantee, but know it works because, on more than one occasion, some of our staffers (Sean) have been let off with a warning for such violations simply because they were forthright and cooperative about the fact that they were legally transporting a firearm. Don’t count on it, but it sure seems to help.

Don’t speed excessively or ride recklessly with a firearm… not getting stopped in the first place is a great way to avoid law enforcement interactions while transporting your gun.


If you are stopped and you calmly present an unloaded and inoperable firearm in a locked container and show any ammunition is locked in a separate container, the officer may still insist on hassling you about it. If so, remain calm and by all means do not argue on the side of the road. However, it may also be possible that he or she simply isn’t certain about what is permissible when it comes to legal transport for lawful purposes. That’s why we suggest keeping a printed copy of the Peaceable Journey Act, complete with the title and section numbers, with you at all times. After all, it is federal law, which ultimately supersedes state or local laws whether the officer wants to admit it or not. Having a copy on hand is no “get out of jail free” card, and your intention is not to argue with the police but simply to make it clear that you have done your homework on the issue.

If you still don’t feel confident that you will avoid being “busted” even if you follow the aforementioned guidelines for legal “transport”, consider that virtually the same requirements are set forth in Canadian law. Our research of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police website revealed that what Canada considers “non-restricted” firearms (basically any rifle or shotgun that does not feature automatic-fire capability) must be unloaded during transportation, while restricted and prohibited firearms (namely revolvers and handguns) must be unloaded, affixed with a secure locking device such as a trigger lock, padlock or a lockable cable through the barrel or the magazine well and locked in a sturdy, non-transparent container. Canadian law even specifies that automatic firearms have their bolts or bolt carriers removed if they can be removed. Canada also requires that a citizen obtain an Authorization to Transport, and the RCMP website even provides a contact phone number.

A fast motor drive on the camera and some rapid fire by Sean made this muzzle blast photo possible…. after about 25 takes. Putting the ammo on an expense report made it all worthwhile.


At the end of the day, transporting any legal firearm on your motorcycle for lawful purposes, such as when heading to the range, your favorite hunting spot or your local gunsmith, need not be a source of anxiety as long as you follow these guidelines:

DO

• Transport your firearm unloaded.
• Do store your firearm in a locked container.
• Do store ammunition in a separate, locked container.
• Do transport firearms and ammunition as far away from easy reach as is practically possible for that vehicle (for a motorcycle that means a backpack or saddlebags).
• Do enjoy shooting. Do enjoy riding… do NOT enjoy shooting while riding.*

DON’T

• Don’t carry a loaded firearm unless you have a permit to do so.
• Don’t carry a firearm inside your jacket or clothing unless you have a concealed carry permit or that particular state specifically allows it without a permit.
• Don’t transport a firearm within easy reach.
• Do not handle, show, or demonstrate the firearm outside of your garage, a firing range, or a gun shop.*
• Don’t speed excessively or ride recklessly with a firearm… not getting stopped in the first place is a great way to avoid law enforcement interactions while transporting your gun.

While following this advice may not exempt you from being hassled by the man in the event you get pulled-over, properly locking and storing your firearm during lawful transportation will significantly reduce your chances of being locked up.



Concealed Carry

A MO reader offers his first-hand experiences on legally “carrying” a concealed firearm while riding

While researching this story, we figured there had to be a few Motorcycle.com readers who actually carry a concealed firearm while riding and who have obtained a permit to do so. Finding one was easy, as our recent point-counterpoint on firearms generated a fair amount of reader feedback. One of those readers was John Butrus of Dallas, Texas, a lawyer who also happens to moonlight as a professional poker player.

Butrus, 55, often rides his Kawasaki Concours 14 from state to state to play in poker tournaments, and he carries his firearm whenever and wherever he is legally allowed to do so.

“I took up riding about five years ago, and mostly what I like to do is go on long trips,” Butrus said. “I cross state lines a lot, I go to national parks and state parks. And, obviously, when you ride you wind up in restaurants and bars. I go to sporting events.”

Being a lawyer, Butrus did a lot of research into the legalities of carrying a firearm on his person when travelling on his motorcycle, although he stresses that he is not here to dispense legal advice; he is merely relating his own experiences, and his mindset, with regard to carrying a firearm.

“I just wanted to make sure that I didn’t wind up somewhere where it is a big problem,” Butrus said. “Like, for example, if I took a gun and rode to New York or New Jersey, that could be a major problem if I got stopped.”

Part of the issue that permitted carry holders face is simply keeping up to date on all of the changes in the gun laws from state to state. Lately, the trend has been that states are becoming more permissive when it comes to carrying a firearm. In Butrus’ home state of Texas, for example, the law was recently changed to allow persons with a valid concealed carry permit (CCW) to also open carry — in other words, carry a loaded firearm that is visible for all to see. Prior to January 1, the law required that CCW permit holders were required to keep their gun concealed at all times. That created some problems, according to Butrus.

“For example, if you are riding somewhere and you kept your gun concealed in a tank bag, and you stopped for gas, you either had to leave the gun in your tank bag or figure out a way to carry it on your person. But if someone saw you holding the gun, then it is no longer concealed. Texas was also considering letting everyone open carry, but that’s just kind of ridiculous. So, they limited it only to people who qualify for the (CCW) license.”

Like many of the gun laws themselves, CCW permit qualification requirements often differ from state to state. The vetting process usually involves a comprehensive application procedure that includes a thorough background check, personal interviews by law enforcement, fingerprinting and the applicant’s ability to demonstrate that he or she can safely operate a firearm as well as use proper judgment in a situation that could mean the difference between life and death.

And some states are classified as “shall issue” while others are “may issue” when it comes to CCW permits. Currently, 41 states are “shall issue,” meaning that anyone who clears the vetting process in their state must be granted a CCW permit. Nine states — California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island — are “may issue,” which leaves discretion for issuing a CCW permit to state or local authorities, who will usually stipulate that an applicant be able to show “good cause” for carrying a concealed weapon.

There appears to be no one-size-fits-all reason when it comes to being able to demonstrate good cause, and although this requirement has recently been challenged in the State of California, the argument that it is within one’s Constitutional rights to keep and bear arms simply does not qualify as good cause. And even if a person is issued a CCW permit in their home state, that does not mean that the permit is necessarily valid across state lines.

“There are a ton of websites that tell people which states have reciprocity, and every state has different requirements. And the thing is that if you would not qualify to carry in that state, you are not allowed to carry in that state. For example, if I ride into New Mexico, which I do all the time, New Mexico might have a provision that says that you cannot get a concealed carry permit if you are behind on child support — and I’m just being hypothetical here. I don’t know if that is the case. But if that were the case, and Texas does have reciprocity with New Mexico on concealed carry permits, and you get stopped in New Mexico and they find out that you are behind on child support, you are not eligible to carry in New Mexico. It is fairly complicated to figure out if you can carry concealed in another state with reciprocity. You really have to study their statutes to know whether you would qualify to carry in their state.”



And there is even more to carefully consider when crossing state lines with a concealed firearm. After all, it stands to reason that most permit holders do so in the interest of self-defense, but it is also crucial that they have an understanding of what constitutes self-defense.

“The law for use of deadly force varies,” Butrus said. “Hopefully you would never get into a situation where you might actually have to shoot someone, but you sure as hell want to make sure you are justified in doing it. I’ll give you a quick example in Texas: I don’t know why, but a couple years ago they changed the law so that if someone is creating mischief on your property you can shoot them. I think it was because prowlers were getting shot and then they wanted to hold the homeowner liable. But if you don’t know when you can use your gun, you could end up in major trouble.”

Although admittedly never having been in that situation, Butrus has found that the law enforcement officers he has encountered have been very understanding when made aware that he has a concealed carry permit and is carrying his firearm

“One time I was on my way back from New Mexico, and I was just east of Lubbock [Texas],” Butrus said. “It was early in the morning and it was a wide open road, and I was just kind of enjoying the ride when I came over a hill. There was a sheriff on the left shoulder, and he pulled me over and said I was going 104 mph. When I got my license out, he saw that I was carrying a concealed carry permit. Now, a lot of times I will just show them my permit anyway while I am giving them my driver’s license because that tells them you’re not a dangerous person and that you don’t have a criminal history. That will sometimes calm them down a little bit, and he ended up just letting me off with a warning. He never even asked me if I was carrying or not.

“They know what the requirements are to get a permit — background checks, fingerprints to the FBI, no history of addiction, no felonies, no domestic violence,” Butrus added. “It’s really hard. But, they do keep statistics on crimes committed by permit holders, and it is like nothing other than traffic offenses. Literally nothing. So, if you’re a cop who is pulling a 55-year-old guy with a permit, he is probably not the guy who is going to be giving you a hard time.”

Butrus said that he is always forthright about whether or not he is carrying his firearm when dealing with law enforcement.

“I’ve been stopped a few times in my car, and I always show them my permit, which looks just like a driver’s license,” Butrus said. “If I have a gun, I tell them, and if I don’t have a gun, I tell them. If I do have one, I tell them where it is and then ask them how they want to proceed. If it is in my pocket, I want them to know that it’s there, or if it is in my glove compartment I want them to know that it is there so that if I open up either one they will not think that I am reaching for a gun. You have to be careful how you handle the situation.”

Riding with a Gun appeared first on Motorcycle.com.



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[toEleven]

Texas was also considering letting everyone open carry, but that’s just kind of ridiculous.

What are you afraid of, Texans?
-Love, Virginians (open carry is legal for everyone here)

P.S. On the off chance that anyone takes this way too seriously, I spent my undergrad years in Texas. I have no actual animosity for the state or its residents whatsoever.

[ZeroGravity360]

guns absolutely terrify me! They are almost always used to intimidate rather than defend.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

guns absolutely terrify me! They are almost always used to intimidate rather than defend.

Now...now...lets not start that...

Guns are tools. I've fired thousands and thousands of rounds, but never with intention to kill anyone. But I'm ready to defend myself if needed.

When used improperly, or by an inexperienced operator, they can kill you. Just like a motorcycle.

People that aren't familiar with motorcycles are often terrified by them.

Learning to shoot is like learning to ride. It's best done with the proper equipment by a qualified instructor.

[allanoue]

I do think open carry is intimidating and infringes on the first amendment. Just keep it under your shirt.

[akima]

I skimmed that article.

Sounds like you can enjoy your natural right to defend yourself after... meeting these conditions, getting these permits, signing up for these things, researching this, presenting that, paying for X and doing Y.

FREEEEEDOM~

The state of things is much simpler in the UK. The government pretty much says "No weapons for anyone but us... oh... and the people who ignore our weapons laws, of course. Good luck with those bad guys. Probably best to stay inside. Oh... and if they do coming knocking at your door, be sure to quickly dial for the police and ask the baddies to wait patiently outside for police to arrive."

We're happy over here though, because banning guns made us safe It's not like the UK is the violent crime capital of Europe.

The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

(France has very restrictive gun laws, but they are still less restrictive than UK guns laws btw)

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

(The EU crime stats show that since 2007 the UK is no longer the most violent country in Europe, but it's still high up on the list)

I can afford to live somewhere relatively safe, so the chance of me personally being robbed or assaulted probably isn't as high as the UK average. I feel for those that aren't in a safe area and are not aloud to have self defence weapons.

[CaliGrrl]

Having lived in a state with open-carry, most people didn't. You'd see a gun in the back window of the truck, but that's about it. Made it easier to transport for target shooting, since you could pretty much take it any way you'd like.

You might consider a gun safety class, and fire a few rounds. Some familiarity might help ease your fear.

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

guns absolutely terrify me! They are almost always used to intimidate rather than defend.

I wonder if the latter belief stems from the former?

[Koala]

I think it's a good thing that open carry is intimidating. I live in an area filled with ghetto rats (before anyone tries to mention color, a ghetto rat can be any race) that try to look and act a lot harder then they actually are and guns tend to scare them. You might see them carrying a gun in their waist band, but when confronted with a law abiding citizen that has one on them they freak out and go for an easier target that they think can't hurt or kill them.

I myself used to love going to the range and popping off several rounds when I had my 44 special. I can't wait to have another, but the bike comes first.

[akima]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

guns absolutely terrify me! They are almost always used to intimidate rather than defend.

What terrifies you? A gun on a table or a gun in the hand of someone threatening or attempting to do harm to you?

I've seen guns on tables before and they were quite polite really. They mostly kept to themselves and let me get on with my business.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Koala

I live in an area filled with ghetto rats (before anyone tries to mention color, a ghetto rat can be any race)

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Koala

I think it's a good thing that open carry is intimidating. I live in an area filled with ghetto rats (before anyone tries to mention color, a ghetto rat can be any race) that try to look and act a lot harder then they actually are and guns tend to scare them. You might see them carrying a gun in their waist band, but when confronted with a law abiding citizen that has one on them they freak out and go for an easier target that they think can't hurt or kill them.

I myself used to love going to the range and popping off several rounds when I had my 44 special. I can't wait to have another, but the bike comes first.

So the second amendment trumps the first amendment. How do the other parts of the constitution rate?

[csmith12]

I feel a locked thread coming on if this doesn't get back on topic soon.

[DEFY]

Everyone has a right to arms. Making it so a cop can be more relaxed in his job is idle. When I get pulled over the first thing I do is roll down the window, turn off the vehicle and place my hands outside the vehicle. This way the officer can see I am not trying to fiddle with anything inside my vehicle. A cop should always be looking as if they are in danger cause they most likely will be running into it. Everyone wants to be able to go home alive by days end.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I feel a locked thread coming on if this doesn't get back on topic soon.

How is talking about concealed vs open carry not germain to the topic?

[NevadaWolf]

I've gone out with folks that carried (concealed, not open). Twice, we were out in the desert and spent the evening plinking bullets into old rust heaps or huge blocks of ice we broke out of water troughs. No harm, no foul.

Also been out with folks who carried and totally had a superior attitude about it, with more than a few high and mighty "The Law states..." justifications. Learned a bit about how varied the laws are in regards to having a firearm, but their attitudes completely turned me off in trusting them with guns.

Of the two, I felt much better about the first group. Safe, responsible, and when we did some shooting, behaved in such a way that made sure the entire experience was safe for everyone. That's a good gun owner. The other group gave me a bad vibe about them. Sure, they knew the letter of the law, but they left me feeling like they were not responsible about being an owner. Braggarts have that effect on me.

Guns are tools, they are not good or bad, they are just hunks of metal. It's the hand of the person using the tool that defines it. Some people I trust with a gun, some people I want banned from being anywhere near a gun.

Kinda like motorcycle riders.

[csmith12]

Al, those are fine subjects in the context of riding. How any one specific person feels about it has been debated to death and really doesn't add much value here. If you don't like guns, then there are no problems.

How to transport a firearm legally on a bike is a value topic as it seems to always be in a constant state of flux in the details of what is acceptable and what is not. So there may be merit to the article if your new to riding with guns. Also, the article leaves out city ordinances and other special case events that one must plan ahead for as they are commonly overlooked.

[toEleven]

Well, that took off a lot more - and in a slightly different direction - than I anticipated. I was just hoping for chuckle or two.

With respect to the article, the important general thing to take away is to know the laws that apply to you before you head out. Especially with firearms. If you legally own one, I would expect or at least sincerely hope that digesting piles of legal restrictions is normal fare.

Originally Posted by akima

...
I've seen guns on tables before and they were quite polite really. They mostly kept to themselves and let me get on with my business.

Well said.

[csmith12]

It was an interesting read for me. I know how to transport a weapon in my local area by car, but there have been times it would have been cool to take the bike to go plink. But nah... so not worth the added hassle with my current setup.

[RacinNinja]

IMO, the best way to notify an officer you are carrying is to simply hand them your concealed carry permit with the rest of your information, IE drivers license and insurance, registration, etc. My permit as well as my insurance card is in my wallet directly under my drivers license for this very reason.

In my state, it is not required to tell anyone anything unless asked. Open carry is legal everywhere. However, officers have a damned tough job. I don't want to make it any harder or add any more stress so I feel my method is a low key way to let them know I'm carrying. If I don't have it with me, no need to give them the permit.

[ZeroGravity360]

Originally Posted by akima

What terrifies you? A gun on a table or a gun in the hand of someone threatening or attempting to do harm to you?

I've seen guns on tables before and they were quite polite really. They mostly kept to themselves and let me get on with my business.

I grew up in Indianapolis, IN where in the summer time there is a murder (or two or three) every day. When I was 14, someone was shot and killed right in front of my house. Thats what terrifies me.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I grew up in Indianapolis, IN where in the summer time there is a murder (or two or three) every day. When I was 14, someone was shot and killed right in front of my house. Thats what terrifies me.

Do you blame the gun or the person who was wielding the gun?

I live in Oregon and open carry is generally legal outside a few places like Portland. I have never carried on my motorcycle, not for legal reasons, but because I'm worried that if I wipe out, the gun will do damage to me. It might think I'm a moron for crashing and just up and shoot me.

No, actually I'm worried that falling on it would cause injuries that otherwise wouldn't have happened. I haven't figured out a good solution to this aside from carrying it on the bike instead of me, which opens up a whole different set of complications. The only think I can think of is to put it over a section of armor, but that's problematic too, what armor? Shoulder? That wouldn't work too well. Arm? Wouldn't really work either. Knee/shin? Same problem. Hip? Possibly... Chest? Might work, it would be a hassle to unzip my jacket though. Back? Maybe...

Ankle holster outside my boot might be good, though the gun is a little big for ankle carry.

[akima]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I grew up in Indianapolis, IN where in the summer time there is a murder (or two or three) every day. When I was 14, someone was shot and killed right in front of my house. Thats what terrifies me.

It's horrible that you had to experience that as a kid.

Hopefully you realise that the gun didn't kill someone. A person did it using a gun. That person could just have well have killed using a kitchen knife, a family car or even a punch.

[Koala]

Originally Posted by csmith12

It was an interesting read for me. I know how to transport a weapon in my local area by car, but there have been times it would have been cool to take the bike to go plink. But nah... so not worth the added hassle with my current setup.

Would there be room for ammo under the passenger seat? That would be a separate compartment if you have the gun itself in a backpack with your eyes/ears/and whatever else you bring with you.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

I grew up in Indianapolis, IN where in the summer time there is a murder (or two or three) every day. When I was 14, someone was shot and killed right in front of my house. Thats what terrifies me.

Then you are afraid of criminals - which is understandable.

There's really no difference in how the person was killed in front of your house, just the unfortunate fact that they were killed.

Learning to handle a gun properly and fire it accurately can be very rewarding, similar to learning to ride well. As a former Range Officer, Firearms Instructor, Pistol Competitor, and shooting club president, I've taught probably hundreds of kids and adults to shoot. For a person unfamiliar with guns, I like to go to an airgun. An airgun makes the entire process much easier to learn. I always cringe when someone want to teach a person to shoot with a large-caliber firearm, the recoil and noise just complicate matters and intimidate the student.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Koala

Would there be room for ammo under the passenger seat?

Depends on the ammo size or the qty transporting. 22's sure, 223's maybe not so much.

[adouglas]

I'll just leave this here.... to show how nuts people are.

TL; DR: Racist road rage incident, intimidation with a running chain saw, defensive display of firearm. No shots fired, nutjob with chain saw arrested.

You can't make this stuff up.

http://patch.com/connecticut/farming...-incident-pd-0

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Depends on the ammo size or the qty transporting. 22's sure, 223's maybe not so much.

Plenty of room for ammo.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Plenty of room for ammo.

But then the tough decision, do I ride the motorcycle or shoot the machine gun?

[Brother Michigan]

I just want to point out that that thing is rocking brembos.

[Ralgha]

Definitely shoot the machine gun. I have my own motorcycle, I don't have my own machine gun.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I feel a locked thread coming on if this doesn't get back on topic soon.

On topic? It's presented by a bot! Lol! I mentioned the word "guns" in a post yesterday and "TADAAA!"

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

On topic? It's presented by a bot! Lol! I mentioned the word "guns" in a post yesterday and "TADAAA!"

I knew this was your screw up somehow.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

On topic?

Yea, on topic, who the OP is no real matter. We have everything from total fear, to constitutional ranking in this thread. When all we should be worried about is keeping ourselves out of jail over some trivial law that we most likely had no clue about on how to properly transport a weapon.

The other drama is FB material.

So you seeded this bot thread? How does that make you feel? hahahahahahha

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by Koala

Would there be room for ammo under the passenger seat? That would be a separate compartment if you have the gun itself in a backpack with your eyes/ears/and whatever else you bring with you.

I didn't have my 300 in stock form long enough to have any idea how much storage space it offers. csmith covered it though - it depends on what you choose to carry. If I were determined to do so, I could picture fitting a few boxes of 9mm in the compartment on my CBR. Enough for a 1hr range session with very deliberate practice, but not enough for an IPSC/USPSA match.

The separate compartment thing brings me back to my point about being aware of the laws in your jurisdiction. The VA attorney general's office has a published opinion stating:

Accordingly, it is my opinion that, provided the handgun is properly secured in a container or compartment within the vehicle, persons who may lawfully possess a firearm but have not been issued a concealed weapons permit may possess, in a vehicle, a handgun that is loaded and the handgun may remain within reach of a driver or passenger under such conditions. It further is my opinion that, for a handgun to be "secured in a container or compartment," such storage tool need not be locked.

TL/DR: Loaded, unlocked, within reach, no permit. Legal.
I wouldn't transport loaded, because I have no reason to do so. I'm not sure I would bother moving extra rounds or magazines beyond my backpack though. You really need to find out what the rules are in your location.

[Koala]

Originally Posted by toEleven

I wouldn't transport loaded, because I have no reason to do so. I'm not sure I would bother moving extra rounds or magazines beyond my backpack though. You really need to find out what the rules are in your location.

Seems like each state may be different. According to the law in OH, you can only carry loaded if you have the concealed permit. Otherwise it states that the gun has to be unloaded in a box/case/separate compartment that is unreachable without leaving the vehicle. I didn't find anything about the ammo but I had been told that it had to be in a separate compartment from the gun itself. I was always a little bit nervous going to the range in my old hatchback because the back was open, it didn't have a storage cover when I bought it. I would keep the gun in a case in the glovebox and the ammo in the hatch area but I wasn't sure if that met the description of the law.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I knew this was your screw up somehow.

I better not mention "sex" either!

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

So you seeded this bot thread? How does that make you feel? hahahahahahha

Sorry; of course! I'm Canadian! What about it?

PSA: if you come to visit Canuckerstan; don't just show up in your vehicle with weapons! There is a process to arrange ahead of time (hunters etc) but it's not just drive up and declare! Contact our CDN Government offices/Border Services/RCMP to find out the rules and do the necessary dance steps! A lot of your toys may not be allowed in no matter what.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

Sorry; of course! I'm Canadian! What about it?

PSA: if you come to visit Canuckerstan; don't just show up in your vehicle with weapons! There is a process to arrange ahead of time (hunters etc) but it's not just drive up and declare! Contact our CDN Government offices/Border Services/RCMP to find out the rules and do the necessary dance steps! A lot of your toys may not be allowed in no matter what.

Lol, I am just pulling your chain man. So, being from "Canuckerstan", what other toys would we have to worry about? There is a track I am thinking about visiting sometime that is north of the boarder (http://www.calabogiemotorsports.com/). Not that I worry about such things on the way to the track, but I don't like surprises either. Liquor, cigarettes, medications?

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Lol, I am just pulling your chain man. So, being from "Canuckerstan", what other toys would we have to worry about? There is a track I am thinking about visiting sometime that is north of the boarder (http://www.calabogiemotorsports.com/). Not that I worry about such things on the way to the track, but I don't like surprises either. Liquor, cigarettes, medications?

I trust you know of our habit of saying Sorry and y'all seem to get a kick out of how we pronounce about!

I don't know what to tell you about your other bad habits! I don't profess to be knowledgable a it the rules but we often hear on our local news of some poor sap being turned around or possibly arrested if trying to sneak a weapon in. I believe they have allowed the weapon to be held at the border until you return to the Homeland but that's a grey area and for sure don't go by my post!!!